Genie Warlock’s Real Power

[kbob]

I have noticed on YouTube reviews and BLOGS that no one seems to be discussing what I see to be the Genie Warlock’s (GW) greatest strength. Maybe I’m not seeing it correctly or maybe it’s a bit hidden and not so obvious. Therefore, I would love to hear y'all's thoughts.

The GW’s Genie’s wrath and it’s cool Christina Aguilera anthem are neat but not all that. I believe the real power of the GW is making up for its greatest weakness; being a warlock and it’s lackluster, number of spell slots. It requires patience to gain the appropriate number of levels, but I think no other spell caster gets such an improvement to their spell casting from a subclass. Additionally, no class gets a boost to their greatest weakness from its subclass like GW.

Their new power, as I see it, is found hidden in their flight ability and the addition of limited wish (a 3.5 Spell brought back only for this subclass). The biggest weakness for warlocks are the Spell slots. With GW you just gained 2 essentially (only they’re better than just a spell slot). 2 may seem “cool” on the surface but it’s a bit more than that. More on that in a bit. But for now:
1. Fly. It’s dedicated and only 30’. That’s the negative. The positive is great!: NO concentration!, can be used for 10 min each use, used PB times per LR, frees up having to choose “fly spell” to your limited number of known spells, and you can hover (unlike races with wings). Also, when is flying not beneficial?? Yes please!
2. Limited wish. Negative is you can’t use it everyday. Positive is it can be ANY spell of 6th level or lower from ANY spell list and requires NO component. To say this is versatile would be an understatement. Versatility is one of the biggest power measurements in the game. It’s way better than a bard choosing the spell he wants cuz you can change this up to meet the challenge at hand. Also, it does not use a spell slot. Limited wish is pretty big.

Again, The advantage of the GW is not in genies wrath or the “bottle” but the added “spell casting”. You have 2 spells that aren’t really spells so they don’t take away from your mere 3 slots at level 14. The addition of 2 very useful spells is almost a 67% increase to the amount of spells you can cast! That is huge! Add that with the additional benefits mentioned above and that is quite the improvement to your base class’s strength AND weakness. No other class that I’m aware of receives such an advantage from its subclass to spell casting (the GW’s greatest strength). No other class receives such a boost from its subclass to its greatest class weakness, in this case, spell slots. No one has such an improvement to either, let alone both, to my knowledge anyway.

I’m not saying it is the most powerful warlock (though it may be a contender with HB) and I’m certainly not saying it’s the best class/subclass combo in the game. I am saying I’m not sure anyone else has ever received such an advantage to its biggest class feature (spells) and biggest weakness (spell slots). If you are offering a subclass that significantly increases both my strengths and weaknesses, you certainly have my attention. I’m not a fan of the flavor (“Genie in a Bottle” and the “I Dream of Genie” theme continuously replay in my head), but the power increase seems substantial to me.

Also, (sort of a different topic but applicable here) with the new feats available, all warlocks stand to gain the most from the ones that add spells w/o the use of slots (and there are some good ones).

Anyway... thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Is it a good spot or am I just stupid and making too much out of nothing? Would like to hear honest feedback. Thanks!

[MrStabby]

I don't know about the idea that no other class has recieved such a boost to their biggest strength to counteract its biggest weakness.

Look at clockwork soul sorcerer - biggest feature: Spellcasting. Biggest restriction to feature: number of spells known.

I would argue that the boost here is even more significant than to the GW.

[KorvinStarmast]

Anyway... thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Is it a good spot or am I just stupid and making too much out of nothing? Would like to hear honest feedback. Thanks! Waiting for a chance to play one. I agree with your take, but I am not sure if our game will ever get to be a high enough level for the limited wish feature. In a one shot? Yeah, coolness! :smallcool:

[MaxWilson]

2. Limited wish. Negative is you can’t use it everyday. Positive is it can be ANY spell of 6th level or lower from ANY spell list and requires NO component. To say this is versatile would be an understatement. Versatility is one of the biggest power measurements in the game. It’s way better than a bard choosing the spell he wants cuz you can change this up to meet the challenge at hand. Also, it does not use a spell slot. Limited wish is pretty big.

*snip*

Anyway... thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Is it a good spot or am I just stupid and making too much out of nothing? Would like to hear honest feedback. Thanks!

I wish Limited Wish could be any spell 6th level or lower, but it has to be castable in 1 action, which rules out many of the spells you wish you could cast: no Raise Dead, no Planar Binding, no Teleportation Circle, no Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, no Contingency. You can do Greater Restoration or Revivify though, so it's not terrible, it's just more limited than it looks.

Edit: Also, while I totally agree that Limited Wish and Wish are both HUGE for Genielocks and that Genielocks are clearly the best high-level warlocks, the math here is incorrect:


Again, The advantage of the GW is not in genies wrath or the “bottle” but the added “spell casting”. You have 2 spells that aren’t really spells so they don’t take away from your mere 3 slots at level 14. The addition of 2 very useful spells is almost a 67% increase to the amount of spells you can cast!

At 14th level you have three spell slots (short rest) PLUS two Mystic Arcana (long rest). Adding Limited Wish and quasi-fly to that takes you from 5 to 7, not 3 to 5, but I actually wouldn't count flying as a Fly spell. (It's better than casting Fly because of better action economy and no concentration or Dispel Magic/Counterspell vulnerability, etc.)

[Unoriginal]

So you're saying they have phenomenal cosmic powers in an itty bitty designing space?

[ftafp]

The flying is a huge benefit but Limited Wish is a 14th level ability. Most games don't make it to 10 and the ones that do make it to 14 only have a quarter of a campaign left at most. Ultimately, the biggest problem with the warlock is that like the ranger in that it was designed for a very specific type of play format and is severely underpowered outside that format. A warlock has no balance issues in games where 3 or more short rests between every long rest are common, but that's not every campaign, and a high level ability that only grants a small number of extra spell slots isn't going to offset the warlock's fundamental design problems, especially when those spell slots are only available once every 1d4 long rests

[Joe the Rat]

I'm guessing the various Genies must find it hilarious that they turn these mortals into walking stereotypes of genies: They float around, live in a ring/lamp/bottle/flask for juniper berry-flavored spirits, grant wishes, and occasionally show some elemental traits.

You can probably add that Sanctuary Vessel is essentially a bargain basement Tiny Hut - hide it somewhere safe, and have a comfortable, uninterrupted rest for the whole party. Of course, by the time this comes on line, you would have already had it on your rituals (as a Tomelock), or someone else has it covered.


Their new power, as I see it, is found hidden in their flight ability and the addition of limited wish (a 3.5 Spell brought back only for this subclass).
That's a 2nd edition spell, in its current form.