What to do about PC death if the party is made of "the chosen ones"

[TyGuy]

I have a general idea for a martial arts campaign. It involves the players each picking a school of kung-fu represented by a heavenly figure. The 8 heavenly celestials are ascended animal ancients, represented by the fighting styles inspired by the animal styles. Tiger, crane, monkey, you get the gist.

Each player picks a fighting school/style and through plot devices and such, they become the chosen one of their associated school / celestial.

The dilemma. What happens if one or more of the PCs die? They are the chosen one for each celestial.
Ideas I've had so far are

Player with dead PC can choose one of the remaining un-picked schools (8 total) and the party can continue so long as there are enough reserves of celestials with champions still alive. Campaign failure if they run out of reserves.
Same as above but the celestials create a "new chosen one" every time one dies. So they can recycle used options with new PCs. This cheapens the whole chosen one, but makes the most forgiving setup.
Death is merely a setback. A PC that dies has its celestial intervene and there's some sort of penalty that makes it prohibitive but not a game ender. Maybe they run around in spirit form for a while. Or perhaps they enter the spirit realm and the living PC's have to enter it through meditation to "rescue" their ally. Astral projection type stuff.


What do you think? Is this workable? Scrap the idea because it's not conducive to a ttrpg? How would you deal with death in such a setting?

[MaxWilson]

I have a general idea for a martial arts campaign. It involves the players each picking a school of kung-fu represented by a heavenly figure. The 8 heavenly celestials are ascended animal ancients, represented by the fighting styles inspired by the animal styles. Tiger, crane, monkey, you get the gist.

Each player picks a fighting school/style and through plot devices and such, they become the chosen one of their associated school / celestial.

The dilemma. What happens if one or more of the PCs die? They are the chosen one for each celestial.
Ideas I've had so far are

Player with dead PC can choose one of the remaining un-picked schools (8 total) and the party can continue so long as there are enough reserves of celestials with champions still alive. Campaign failure if they run out of reserves.
Same as above but the celestials create a "new chosen one" every time one dies. So they can recycle used options with new PCs. This cheapens the whole chosen one, but makes the most forgiving setup.
Death is merely a setback. A PC that dies has its celestial intervene and there's some sort of penalty that makes it prohibitive but not a game ender. Maybe they run around in spirit form for a while. Or perhaps they enter the spirit realm and the living PC's have to enter it through meditation to "rescue" their ally. Astral projection type stuff.


What do you think? Is this workable? Scrap the idea because it's not conducive to a ttrpg? How would you deal with death in such a setting?

I'd go with #1 (continue until running out of reserves) although I'd actually prefer #4: 1/8 of reality cracks and falls into decay every time an associated champion is destroyed. I'm not that familiar with the genre but I imagine something like all of the monkeys vanishing into dust when the Monkey Champion is gone (and everybody in the world losing the ability to tell jokes), all of the elephants turning to mud when the Elephant Champion is gone (and everybody in the world becoming significantly more foolish and short-sighted), etc. Then once the campaign success condition is achieved, the dead Champions remain dead but you can give the world back its monkeys and sense of humor, etc.

[Dark.Revenant]

I wouldn't end the game as soon as a "reserve spot" is missing when a PC dies; even a single chosen one remaining should offer some chance at victory in a story like this. I'd just have the remaining PCs be muggles who have to pick up the slack.

[J-H]

Unless you're running with 8 players, some of the celestials won't be represented for the first part of the game. If a chosen one dies, that's one less celestial being represented. They can roll up a new character.
If all of the celestial representatives die, they have to go find some new (lower level) Chosen ones and help them execute the quest (Ok, you Chosen Ones go fight the kobolds, we'll take the beholders).

[noob]

Maybe the chosen one is dead but still helps when the plot asks for it and the team decides that the fact one of them died means that they need new help and they recruit someone even if that individual is not chosen then the player can then play the replacement and also the chosen one in spirit at the end scene of the campaign.

[Greywander]

Here's an alternate idea: The "chosen ones" are already dead, defeated by the BBEG. The BBEG has basically already won and is enacting their plan, whatever it is. Meanwhile, the celestials are scrambling to find new champions that can take the place of the chosen ones. How I might do this is have one magic item for each celestial that represents the power of one of the chosen ones. By bearing that magic item, a PC can stand in for one of the dead chosen ones, and hopefully fulfill their mission in their place. If a PC dies, they can pass on the magic item to another character. If an item is lost, you can bring in one of the unused celestial items. If they run out, they'll have to recover one of the ones they lost (you can still have a new PC, but without the item they'll lack the power of that champion).

If you go this route, I'd start by making these relic simple common magic items, and have them gain additional power at each tier, or possible unlock new power at specific plot points, e.g. if they have to visit four elemental crystals then maybe give an upgrade each time they visit a crystal.

[greenstone]

To quote Adam Savage, "Failure is always an option."

If a PC dies, that celestial school loses its power. Students of the school suddenly find that their kung fu isn't as powerful as it was before.

Now the players at the table have a choice, one with a very meaningful consequence.

Take time off from the quest to raise the dead PC and restore the school's power? This gives the bad guys(TM) more time to plot and prepare.

-or-

Move on with the quest, accepting the loss of one of the schools.

[Keravath]

I depends what you mean by "chosen ones".

Chosen to try? or Chosen to succeed?

The former has many options ... the latter you need to have a mechanism to bring them back and I think it actually takes something away from the game if an avatar can't fail.

So .. I would tend to go with "Chosen to try".

The next point would be ... are these chosen ones forbidden to search out allies? Does it only have to be the chosen ones?

I would be tempted to have the group of chosen ones start the campaign with the requirement that to succeed at least ONE of the chosen ones must be there at the end to succeed at the quest. If all of the chosen ones are killed, the party fails. However, if a chosen one falls, the group can recruit an ally to support them and replace the fallen one (there would be some sort of mystical ritual to dedicate them to the cause). The new character could be anything EXCEPT another monk/chosen one (since the chosen ones were designated at the beginning). This would allow a players whose chosen one dies to choose a character (options are up to the DM) but they could potentially be any other class that fits the genre. It also acts as a bit of a consolation prize since although their chosen one didn't make it they do get to play a more unique character bringing a new skill set to the quest.

[Gecks]

Would Curse of Strahd resurrection rules work? It that campaign, the "Dark Powers" will sometimes resurrect a PC, but they come back... different (such as developing gills, but having con save penalties out of the water, or their skin turning cold & clammy, gaining resistance to cold but vulnerability to flame), as they are twisted body and mind by the creepy powers of Barovia.

Could maybe a similar thing happen in your campaign, only with a celestial animal spirit flavor? Maybe each time a character dies, they are brought back by their celestial animal spirit, but they start to gain traits of their patron animal each time, with benefits and drawbacks (and maybe have the drawbacks get worse for each subsequent resurrection). A tiger champion who dies once might come back with advantage to scent-related perception checks but disadvantage to checks involving domesticated animals, as their tiger nature makes animals freak out when he is near. On the second death, their movement speed might go up by 10 ft, but now in order to sustain themselves they need to hunt down a wild animal once per week, kill it with their bare hands, then eat it raw.

The change would get more and more extreme each death- the character would stay relevant and effective, but their would be real stakes for the player because death means permanent character change.

[PhantomSoul]

To quote Adam Savage, "Failure is always an option."

If a PC dies, that celestial school loses its power. Students of the school suddenly find that their kung fu isn't as powerful as it was before.

Now the players at the table have a choice, one with a very meaningful consequence.

Take time off from the quest to raise the dead PC and restore the school's power? This gives the bad guys(TM) more time to plot and prepare.

-or-

Move on with the quest, accepting the loss of one of the schools.

This was my thought -- switching Chosen Ones removes some tension from the character mattering... and may feel like erasing the backdrop idea that those characters matter. Since there are backup schools, there are even additional options for backup characters while turning death into a meaningful choice (like above). You end up with multiple win situations and multiple loss scenarios... and all of them could even yield an interesting world for future games!

[Temperjoke]

In the situation that you've created here, I would lean towards the "death is just a setback, not the end" idea. Whether it's a group effort or a solo trip, I would create a scenario where the dead PC earns a way back to life, maybe have their particular celestial patron tests them to see if they should get another chance. Or, if the celestial patrons have rivals amongst themselves, the rival tests them to see if they're really worthy of being chosen and gives them a second chance? That would put a limit on how many times this can happen before permanent penalties happen. It's also not unheard of in fiction for a character that has died and come back to have some sort of power increase due to insight gained from the ordeal, meaning maybe they earn experience from the attempt or gain a special weapon or blessing to aid them?

[Laserlight]

It's not uncommon in fiction for "The Chosen One" to be a forerunner / mentor for the sidekick / mercenary / apprentice who turns out to be the actual Chosen One.

Possibly the celestial's power is vested in a weapon, and whoever wields that weapon is that celestial's Chosen until they die / retire. (My weapon would be the Heavy Sai).

I think the campaign concept is certainly doable. People generally don't want to lose their character, regardless of whether the Fate of the World hangs on him or not, so I wouldn't worry about character death not being meaningful unless you're just grinding through PCs on a frequent basis. Killing one PC every couple of months is one thing; killing two or three every week would give you a different dynamic.

[micahaphone]

Depends on how okay you are with a celestial spirit being a conniving bastard. If a character dies and the player wants to continue with that same school, I'd have the new character get revealed to them that they are the chosen one of the art, and they need to go meet this team of other chosen warrior-poets. Player's choice on whether or not the new character realizes the spirit conned him (how many other people has he told are "the one"?) or if they believe "oh that dead guy was just a placeholder for me" or something along those lines.

Personally, I love the idea of mystic figure telling anyone they find "you are the chosen one! Go forth and slay the dragon!", hoping that at least one of these times it'll work.

[Kane0]

♫ Oh, it's bad luck to be you.
A chosen one of many isn't new
When you think you're full of luck
in the bullock's you'll get struck
Oh, it's bad luck to be you

Oh, it's bad luck to be you
Don't think for just a second it's not true
When your life has run amuck
You'll see that you're the schmuck
Oh, it's bad luck to be
Really bad luck to be
Nobody could disagree
It's a freaking guarantee
Oh, it's bad luck to be you
Diddly doo ♫

[Vegan Squirrel]

Personally, I'm a fan of underworld quests to bring people back from the dead. Before finishing the campaign, they'll have to journey into hell/the afterlife/the underworld/wherever dead kung fu souls go and bring them back to stop the great evil. It should be a difficult journey, and they'll need to do their research to know what to do at each step and how to navigate. But they can have some form of celestial aid.

If their players have taken over other chosen ones in the interim, you can bring them back as NPCs with altered powers. Still make sure the true PCs are carrying the day in the end, but there can be something mystical about all of them needing to participate in order to end the great evil.

Maybe the cost is steep. They need to make a deal with the guardian of the dead; what do they offer? Maybe they can only bring back a dead chosen one if the dark side also gets back someone equally powerful—the balance must be maintained. So they can resurrect their ally, but in doing so add another villain to the campaign.

Or maybe they can research a time travel spell to go back in time and change what happened so they never died, if you're up for some time travel shenanigans. Maybe there's a sage master who can travel through time as others travel through space; perform a quest or a test for this master and they will take you through time.

This is why simple resurrection spells never seem right to me; death is the perfect impetus for a mythic scale adventure. :smallbiggrin:

[MoiMagnus]

Go with #1 for early death (for later death, the PCs should be able to find a way to resurrect their friend).
If you TPK, or kill most of the team, then get "non chosen ones" that are forced by the circumstances to try what they can to artificially become "chosen ones". Don't grant this like being "chosen one" is costless, this should be a full adventure.

[Randomthom]

How about this;
When they die, they come back as a regular hero, not a "chosen one", just someone trying to do the right thing, save the world.

A Han Solo/Wedge Antilles, contributing by audacity, skill and blind luck in a world run by space wizards.

Not sure about your players but I'd love that role.

Remember, in a world where everyone is special, nobody is special.

[Martin Greywolf]

It involves the players each picking a school of kung-fu represented by a heavenly figure. The 8 heavenly celestials are ascended animal ancients, represented by the fighting styles inspired by the animal styles. Tiger, crane, monkey, you get the gist.

So, we're dealing with mostly Chinese setting here, so let's keep answers relevant to that cultural area.

The first idea is reincarnation - Avatar did it, and it worked fairly well, potential problem is that you can't replace the lost PC immediately that way. But, if all 8 slots aren't filled, you may get away with it, with some reserve characters.

Second idea pertains to ascending in the first place. Technically, anyone can achieve enlightenment, so the celestials may well decide, upod the death of one champion, to select another one from a very small pool of enlightened martial artists.

Both of these give you some leeway, but also leave the possibility of PCs failing if they screw up too badly and too many of them die - either all chosen ones are toddlers, or there are no enlightened poeple left to choose from.

[ZRN]

Each player picks a fighting school/style and through plot devices and such, they become the chosen one of their associated school / celestial.

I don't know what pace or duration of campaign you're going for, but if you can hold off the "plot devices and such" until level 9+, PCs get Raise Dead and it's a lot easier to prevent perma-death. (Include a mid-level caster NPC, like the Prophet of the Zodiac or whatever who guides them and can Raise Dead when needed, and you can push it lower.)

But I could see it be very cool having the PCs work together to fight off evil and learn their path, at first not having any reason to think they're Special, and then the ones who survive get Chosen at mid-levels and can be brought back if they die (per normal resurrection rules). That plot arc lets you get the scrappy low-level vibe of just talented normal guys trying to survive a dangerous world, and then lets you transition into high-level play as powerful avatars of the gods.

[togapika]

represented by the fighting styles inspired by the animal styles. Tiger, crane, monkey, you get the gist.

Each player picks a fighting school/style and through plot devices and such, they become the chosen one of their associated school / celestial.


So who gets to be THE big fat panda?

[Nhorianscum]

I have a general idea for a martial arts campaign. It involves the players each picking a school of kung-fu represented by a heavenly figure. The 8 heavenly celestials are ascended animal ancients, represented by the fighting styles inspired by the animal styles. Tiger, crane, monkey, you get the gist.

Each player picks a fighting school/style and through plot devices and such, they become the chosen one of their associated school / celestial.

The dilemma. What happens if one or more of the PCs die? They are the chosen one for each celestial.
Ideas I've had so far are

Player with dead PC can choose one of the remaining un-picked schools (8 total) and the party can continue so long as there are enough reserves of celestials with champions still alive. Campaign failure if they run out of reserves.
Same as above but the celestials create a "new chosen one" every time one dies. So they can recycle used options with new PCs. This cheapens the whole chosen one, but makes the most forgiving setup.
Death is merely a setback. A PC that dies has its celestial intervene and there's some sort of penalty that makes it prohibitive but not a game ender. Maybe they run around in spirit form for a while. Or perhaps they enter the spirit realm and the living PC's have to enter it through meditation to "rescue" their ally. Astral projection type stuff.


What do you think? Is this workable? Scrap the idea because it's not conducive to a ttrpg? How would you deal with death in such a setting?

"Woops, guess you weren't really all that chosen buddy. It happens... Neeeeext!"