Wizard Build Challenge

[arnin77]

With the recent threads on Wizards I’ve found myself wanting to build/play one. I prefer non-squishy types so my goals would be higher AC, HPs, Saves etc. (as possible)

I think it’s pretty easy to just multi class and get everything you need so the challenge here is to build a Wizard with the highest AC, HPs and Saves as possible while still maintaining effective Spell Attacks and DC as SINGLE-CLASSED.

My first thoughts are VHuman War Magic Wizard (res Con) 10/14/14/16/12/10.

Probably a bad start but I really like res Con. I keep circling back to Githyanki or Hobgoblin too but I just love those level 1 feats.

I would be interested to see everyone else’s ideas!

Just to reiterate:

Goals - high Ac, hps, saves (durability)
- high attack and dc (effectiveness)
Rules - NO MULTICLASSING
- UA OK

[LudicSavant]

With the recent threads on Wizards I’ve found myself wanting to build/play one. I prefer non-squishy types so my goals would be higher AC, HPs, Saves etc. (as possible)

I think it’s pretty easy to just multi class and get everything you need so the challenge here is to build a Wizard with the highest AC, HPs and Saves as possible while still maintaining effective Spell Attacks and DC as SINGLE-CLASSED.

My first thoughts are VHuman War Magic Wizard (res Con) 10/14/14/16/12/10.

Probably a bad start but I really like res Con. I keep circling back to Githyanki or Hobgoblin too but I just love those level 1 feats.

I would be interested to see everyone else’s ideas!

Just to reiterate:

Goals - high Ac, hps, saves (durability)
- high attack and dc (effectiveness)
Rules - NO MULTICLASSING
- UA OK

The Hobgoblin Iron Wizard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23837856&postcount=45). High saves, hit points, AC, single classed, everything you want (except that it doesn't use UA content).

And now with Tasha's you can just toss in an infinitely regenerating ward with the Eldritch Invocation feat, if you're so inclined.

[Mitchellnotes]

Unity cleric/wizard multiclass. Especially with the new tasha's summons, this provides an option to use high level slots to summon strong minions and then use concentration-less spells to buff them. While the summons may not be the strongest option at a given time, it's hard to imagine that they would ever be a bad option either. You get all the standard cleric goodies, concentration free bless (with uses and # of targets based on proficiency bonus). You can take more cleric levels if you want some of the stronger unity features (for instance, you could summon a slaad aberration and use it to help split damage which it then regenerates). Since the summons scale based on spell slot, they still advance nicely even with more multiclass levels since you won't lose spell slots. In terms of wizard subclass, you could use lots of options. Conjuror would be strong with guaranteed concentration saves at 10, but other classes provide good options as well.

[AttilatheYeon]

Deep gnome abjurer

[LudicSavant]

Deep gnome abjurer

Nowadays you can just do the Deep Gnome Abjurer's main schtick with any race using the Tasha's feat.

[JackPhoenix]

Nowadays you can just do the Deep Gnome Abjurer's main schtick with any race using the Tasha's feat.

To be fair, the gnome does it slightly better, as it uses 3rd level instead of 1st level spell, making the recharging quicker.

[Ir0ns0ul]

To be fair, the gnome does it slightly better, as it uses 3rd level instead of 1st level spell, making the recharging quicker.

And Gnomes have the tasting natural advantage on WIS saves — which overlaps with the Abjurer feature at level 15, but... let’s be honest, it’s level 15.

[LudicSavant]

To be fair, the gnome does it slightly better, as it uses 3rd level instead of 1st level spell, making the recharging quicker.

I wouldn't be comparing a feat to a feat, but a race+feat to a race+feat, and judging which overall package is better.

You'll be full in a couple minutes either way, so that regeneration speed is only rarely relevant. And you'd be comparing that (and any other benefits of the Svirfneblin feat/race) against the significant benefits of being a Custom Lineage or something.

[RogueJK]

I'm not sure you're going to be able to be the very best at all three of AC, HP, and Saves at once like a specialist in one of those could, but you can be very good at all three at once. (It'd be even easier with multiclassing, like a 1 level Peace Cleric dip for Medium Armor/Shield/Emboldening Bond.)


Bladesinger has the highest potential AC of all the Wizards (AC 23 with 20 DEX/INT and Mage Armor). Bladesingers also have higher potential Concentration saves than most any other Wizards, with a 20 INT Bladesinger having a higher bonus to their Concentration save than any Wizard except Level 17+ Transmuters with the CON Save proficiency Transmuter's Stone (or I guess a Level 10+ Conjuration Wizards who are Concentrating on a Conjuration spell, who can't lose Concentration due to damage anyway). Plus, Bladesinger's Concentration bonus stacks with Resilient CON, whereas the Transmuter's Stone doesn't, so it could even beat out a Transmuter if you invest in that feat.

But if you're willing to have a slightly lower AC and Concentration save in exchange for greater effective Hit Points, you can go Medium Armor Abjurer, starting with a Light Armor race like Hobgoblin and taking the Moderately Armored feat. Your AC will be lower than Bladesinger (maxing out at 19 with Half Plate, shield, and 14 DEX), but you'll have the Hit Point buffer of Arcane Ward available.

Alternately, you can go Medium Armor War Wizard, trading the Arcane Ward HP buffer for a Reaction to boost AC +2 or saves +4 against one attack/spell per round, and eventually an extra +2 to AC and saves while Concentrating at Level 10+. This gets your AC on par with a Bladesinger (23) against 1 attack per turn with your Reaction, and only slightly lower (21) at Levels 10+ while Concentrating.

And if you want to focus on saves, you can go something like Faun or Yuan-Ti for Advantage on magic-related saves, or Hobgoblin for +5 to a save per short rest, plus then take Resilient CON or Warcaster for Concentration.



So if AC and Concentration are going to be your main focus, go Bladesinger, picking Hill Dwarf if you want a little more HP or Yuan-Ti/Faun/Hobgoblin if you want slightly better saves. You can take take Resilient CON if you really want to get an over-the-top Concentration bonus, but it's not strictly necessary. So this build doesn't require any feats, and you can put your ASIs towards maxing INT and DEX.

But if the HP buffer is going to be your main focus, go Moderately Armored Hobgoblin Abjurer, and take Resilient CON or Warcaster, plus Eldritch Adept (Armor of Shadows) for easy Arcane Ward recharges. The downside being that these 3 feats eat all your ASIs until Level 16, so for it to be workable you'd ideally need to roll for stats, and roll well.

Or if better saves and AC is more important to you than Arcane Ward's HP buffer, then go Moderately Armored Hobgoblin War Wizard, and take Resilient CON or Warcaster. This one only requires 2 feats, so it's slightly more doable, and lets you boost INT starting at Level 12. Still not great if using Point Buy/Standard Array though, since you'd have to make do with a 16/17 INT from Levels 1-11.


Therefore, if you roll for stats, and roll well, Moderately Armored Hobgoblin Abjurer/War Wizard is a good option. Otherwise, if you're using Point Buy or Standard Array, I think you're likely better off going with Hill Dwarf/Faun/Yuan-Ti Bladesinger instead.

[arnin77]

Thanks, these ideas are really great. I’m kind of wondering now about Githyanki Abjurer/War Wizard instead of Hobgoblin and taking Heavily Armored at level 4 instead of Moderately Armored. 15/10/14/16/10/10 (or drop charisma and get 15 con for resilient later on). You could have Platemail and two-handed sword.... would this be better/worse than the hobgoblin build I wonder?

[RogueJK]

With Githyanki (or Mountain Dwarf) + Heavily Armored feat, you wouldn't have shield proficiency. So your AC maxes out at just 18 with Full Plate, which is worse than a Moderately Armored Hobgoblin with Half Plate, Shield, and 14 DEX at 19.

Githyanki would also require you to needlessly put points into STR to be able to wear that heavy armor.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Thanks, these ideas are really great. I’m kind of wondering now about Githyanki Abjurer/War Wizard instead of Hobgoblin and taking Heavily Armored at level 4 instead of Moderately Armored. 15/10/14/16/10/10 (or drop charisma and get 15 con for resilient later on). You could have Platemail and two-handed sword.... would this be better/worse than the hobgoblin build I wonder?

One of the best things about Moderately Armored is +1 DEX and shield prof. If you manage to get an odd DEX 15 and round this up after taking the feat, you can even risk some Booming Blades and etc.

The Iron Hobgoblin Wizard is the most durable Wizard build even if you chose to not be an Abjurer. I’m playing a Diviner myself and it’s being a terrific blast!

[LudicSavant]

Thanks, these ideas are really great. I’m kind of wondering now about Githyanki Abjurer/War Wizard instead of Hobgoblin and taking Heavily Armored at level 4 instead of Moderately Armored. 15/10/14/16/10/10 (or drop charisma and get 15 con for resilient later on). You could have Platemail and two-handed sword.... would this be better/worse than the hobgoblin build I wonder?

Moderately Armored is better than Heavily Armored. Two-handed swords do practically nothing for an Abjurer or War Wizard, and Strength is a worse stat than Dexterity for most purposes (notable exception: shover/grappler builds).

[BamBam]

War Mages are solid. When the challenge is single class and best saves I don't think any other subclass can challenge. A Diviner can burn through Lucky and Portents for a bit of Nova tanking. Transmuters effectively get an extra save proficiency from their Stone so you could get Dex proficiency with your feat whike the Stone grants you Con proficiency.

For all tank builds Artificer Adept gets you access to Int based Sanctuary and Resistance (or Int based Thornwhip). Sanctuary is phenomenal for tanking while controlling summons and dodging. A War Mage can continually trigger the 10th level ability by targeting himself continually with Resistance ("The Force is with me. I am one with the Force.")


Moderately Armored is better than Heavily Armored. Two-handed swords do practically nothing for an Abjurer or War Wizard, and Strength is a worse stat than Dexterity for most purposes (notable exception: shover/grappler builds).

Mostly I agree, but muscle wizards get to use their staff for their main weapon and PAM. If a race offered Heavy Armor and Shield proficiency it would be the best Wizard race pick.

[Blood of Gaea]

A Mark of Abjuration Dwarf War Wizard with Tasha's racial variants to have +2 Dex +1 Int is pretty good. With a 16 Dex start and Mage Armor, your AC isn't amazing, but it's fine. The big gain to be had is that you have Armor of Agathys and Arcane Reflection. That makes you pretty solid at saving throws and HP.

If you prefer, you can go with Hobgoblin and Moderately Armored, using False Life instead of Armor of Agathys, depending on your preference.

I'm certainly not going to call this better than the Iron Wizard build, but I think it's definitely comparable.


Mostly I agree, but muscle wizards get to use their staff for their main weapon and PAM. If a race offered Heavy Armor and Shield proficiency it would be the best Wizard race pick.
I don't think I can agree here, mostly because of how powerful Initiative can be when you cast a control spell with your first turn. Taking a handful of monsters out of the fight ASAP is likely doing more to you (and your parties) overall resilience than anything else you could do.

[Ir0ns0ul]

A Mark of Abjuration Dwarf War Wizard with Tasha's racial variants to have +2 Dex +1 Int is pretty good. With a 16 Dex start and Mage Armor, your AC isn't amazing, but it's fine. The big gain to be had is that you have Armor of Agathys and Arcane Reflection. That makes you pretty solid at saving throws and HP.

If you prefer, you can go with Hobgoblin and Moderately Armored, using False Life instead of Armor of Agathys, depending on your preference.

I'm certainly not going to call this better than the Iron Wizard build, but I think it's definitely comparable.

Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer is definitely durable and tough as nails. But I wouldn’t prioritize DEX here. In some cases, it’s better to have a not optimized AC and allow yourself to get hit in order to proc the amazing retributive damage from AoA. Then you just cast an Abjuration spell to replenish your Arcane Ward and move ahead.

Since you are nearly invulnerable and tremendously dangerous at melee, your DM will start sending ranged foes against you, and that’s why underrated spells like Warding Wind become specially good at your hands.

[ivegotanickel]

If you want to go pure power gamer, a custom lineage with the fey touched feat (pick command) lets you start with 18 int. Go artificer 1 for con save, medium armor, and full spell progression, then chronurgist 19. Do normal god wizard things and you’ll be hard pressed to find a stronger build in the game.

For optimal fun though a hexvoker rolls ALL the dice and makes things go boom. Beg your DM for a wand of magic missiles.

[MaxWilson]

And Gnomes have the tasting natural advantage on WIS saves — which overlaps with the Abjurer feature at level 15, but... let’s be honest, it’s level 15.

And besides, there are plenty of non-spell-based Wis/Int/Cha saves in the game so the overlap is minor.

[fert1g]

Abjurer 20 is a very tanky build. Abjurer gives access to Arcane Ward, and Spell Resistance.

Arcane Ward can be repeatedly filled without expending resources by taking the Eldritch Adept feat and picking up the Armor of Shadows invocation, which allows us to cast Mage Armor (an abjuration spell) on our familiar at will - until our arcane ward is replenished. I'd build something along the following lines:

Custom Lineage:
Feat: Telekinetic (Intelligence).

Str 8
Dex 13
Con 15
Int 15 +2 (racial) +1 (telekinetic)
Wis 12
Cha 8

Feats and ASIs:
Lvl. 4: Moderately Armoured (Dexterity)
Lvl. 8: Eldritch Adept (Armor of Shadows)
Lvl. 12: Int +2
Lvl. 16: Resilient (Constitution)
Lvl. 19: Lucky

Important spells: Absorb Elements, Shield, Find Familiar, Darkvision, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Wish, etc.

[LudicSavant]

Friendly reminder that the OP specifically said they wanted no multiclassing. In allcaps. At least twice.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Artificer 1/Abjurer 19 is a very tanky build. Starting in artificer grants proficiency in constitution saves, medium armour, and shields. Abjurer gives access to Arcane Ward, and Spell Resistance.

Arcane Ward can be repeatedly filled without expending resources by taking the Eldritch Adept feat and picking up the Armor of Shadows invocation, which allows us to cast Mage Armor (an abjuration spell) on our familiar at will - until our arcane ward is replenished. I'd build something along the following lines:

Human (Variant):
Feat: Telekinetic (Intelligence).

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 15 +1
Int 14 +1 (racial) +1 (telekinetic)
Wis 12
Cha 8

Feats and ASIs:
Lvl. 5: Int +2
Lvl. 9: Eldritch Adept (Armor of Shadows)
Lvl. 13: Resilient (Wisdom)
Lvl. 17: Int +2
Lvl. 20: Lucky

Important spells: Absorb Elements, Shield, Find Familiar, Darkvision, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Wish, etc.

I would say Hexblade would be far superior to Artificer in this case. You would get same medium armor + shield proficiency, but you would have access to Armor of Agathys, which is incredible for an Abjurer, and you would also be able to play a little bit like a Nuclear Wizard (once again, thanks Ludic) by leveraging Hexblade Curse and Magic Missile.

However, to avoid off-topic since the OP stated MC is not on the table, I would reinforce the builds below:

- Hobgoblin Iron Wizard (don’t need to be necessarily an Abjurer, the main case is Moderately Armored at level 4)
- Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer

These are the most durable Wizard builds out there.

[mistajames]

I can do better. Yuan-Ti Pureblood Bladesinger, swapping +2 Cha with +2 Dex via the Tasha's feature. 8/16/14/16/12/8 to start. Advantage to all saves vs. spells and magical effects. Immunity to poison damage and the Poisoned condition.

In terms of AC: AC at level 2 with Bladesong is 19 base, 24 with Shield. No need to track down Full Plate (far from guaranteed at L2). AC at level 20 is 23/24 base without magic items or buffs, just pumping stats and taking Dual Wielder. That said, War Caster is probably the superior choice, but your Concentration is going to be quite good regardless.

In terms of HP: Fighter has, on average, 2 more HP/level, all other things considered. Basically, casting False Life will make up for the HP difference if this is something you really care about.

In terms of saves: Most saves are vs. magical effects, and you get advantage and all saves vs. magical effects. You still get access to the usual Bladesinger defensive goodness. At the end of the day, a Yuan-Ti Pureblood Warcaster will have better saves for practical purpose (but worse AC).

[Ir0ns0ul]

Well, let's try to do something quick here.

Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer


Level 1: STR 8, DEX 13, CON 17, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 8. Main defensive spells: Armor of Agathys, Shield, Absorb Elements.
Level 4: STR 8, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 8. Main defensive spells: Warding Wind. ASI: Resilient (CON).
Level 8+: STR 8, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 18+, WIS 12, CHA 8. Main defensive spells: Protection from Energy, Intelectual Fortress. ASIs: INT, Lucky, Alert, Resilient (DEX).


You have basically coverage against any kind of threat -- and better than that, you are still a full-fledged Wizard capable of bending the reality. I will not even bother to detail your counter measuraments against melee combat, because AoA + Arcane Ward is totally game-breaking. But things like Warding Wind can pretty much save your bacon against undesired ranged enemies.

I'm not even accounting the Abjurer level 15 ability boosting your saves as well. You have things like Absorb Elements and Protection from Energy (and of course your always-on Arcane Ward) to deal with AoE/Spell/Breath attacks. Proficiency in CON can pretty much guarantee you will avoid nasty effects like Petrification, Paralysis and etc (and just as a sidenote, Dwarves have natural resistance against Poison effects and damage, which are pretty common!). WIS proficiency and Intelectual Fortress will shrug off dangerous metal effects against you. Lucky is always handy as well against save or suck abilities.

And there are basic Wizard things like Misty Step, PFE&G, Blink, Thunderstep, Unseen Servants/Familiars giving you potions & etc -- known shenanigans that increase your survival capabilities exponentially.

I need to agree with shipiaozi from another thread, Wizards are really tanky in 5e.

[arnin77]

Well, let's try to do something quick here.

Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer


Level 1: STR 8, DEX 13, CON 17, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 8. Main defensive spells: Armor of Agathys, Shield, Absorb Elements.
Level 4: STR 8, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 16, WIS 12, CHA 8. Main defensive spells: Warding Wind. ASI: Resilient (CON).
Level 8+: STR 8, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 18+, WIS 12, CHA 8. Main defensive spells: Protection from Energy, Intelectual Fortress. ASIs: INT, Lucky, Alert, Resilient (DEX).


You have basically coverage against any kind of threat -- and better than that, you are still a full-fledged Wizard capable of bending the reality. I will not even bother to detail your counter measuraments against melee combat, because AoA + Arcane Ward is totally game-breaking. But things like Warding Wind can pretty much save your bacon against undesired ranged enemies.

I'm not even accounting the Abjurer level 15 ability boosting your saves as well. You have things like Absorb Elements and Protection from Energy (and of course your always-on Arcane Ward) to deal with AoE/Spell/Breath attacks. Proficiency in CON can pretty much guarantee you will avoid nasty effects like Petrification, Paralysis and etc (and just as a sidenote, Dwarves have natural resistance against Poison effects and damage, which are pretty common!). WIS proficiency and Intelectual Fortress will shrug off dangerous metal effects against you. Lucky is always handy as well against save or suck abilities.

And there are basic Wizard things like Misty Step, PFE&G, Blink, Thunderstep, Unseen Servants/Familiars giving you potions & etc -- known shenanigans that increase your survival capabilities exponentially.

I need to agree with shipiaozi from another thread, Wizards are really tanky in 5e.

Thanks for the info! That poster is not saying wizards are tanky though.... That poster is saying they’re MELEE.

[fert1g]

Friendly reminder that the OP specifically said they wanted no multiclassing. In allcaps. At least twice.

My mistake, revisited my post to bring it in line with op's desires. I really prefer the feat moderately armoured over playing a githyanki or a shield dwarf as neither of those give access to shields.

[Mitchellnotes]

Friendly reminder that the OP specifically said they wanted no multiclassing. In allcaps. At least twice.

Whoops, missed that. Let me try agan.

Going a slightly different route by maxing hp.

Start hill dwarf with starting stats (after racials) of:
Str 10
Dex 12
Con 17
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

At 4, take res con, and tough at 8. This gives us, per level:

Wiz-4
Con-4
Hill dwarf-1
Tough-2

For 11 hp per level. Ac isnt great (14), and int isnt wonderful (at 14), but yhere are also a couple other feats to play with. For AC, shirld helps and you can still take s hit or so. Mark of warding dwarf could also help with even more thp with armor of agathys.

The 14 int does hurt effectiveness.... some. But, we havent talked about subclass yet. Could go abj (for the add'l ward, better dispel/counterspells, and better saves), could go necromancer (for minionmancy), or with the new tashas, go conj. for the new summons, auto save concentrate, and teleports.

Could be like a field medic, use concentration for a summons, and then rescue party members as need be. There are still lots of non concentration control spells and defensive spells to help with this, or no save spells as well.

There are still a couple feats that can be played with, or getting a headband of intellect, or items to help with ac are all options.