Place your bets: Who will destroy the last gate?

[The Pilgrim]

We all know it's bound to happen. So put your quatloos where your mouth is.

The running candidates are...

1) Xykon. He knows there's something fishy about The Ritual, and has built himself a refuge in the Astral. So, as they reach the MacGuffin, he may very well destroy the Gate instead of enacting The Ritual, as a last laught at Redcloak.

2) Redcloak. As The Plain fails, he may very well enact Plan B: Get the world destroyed so that The Dark One gives a better lot for Goblins in the next.

3) The IFCC. Their scheme seems related to destroying the World. And they have announced to have an Artifact, so they must fire it.

4) The Gods. They would rather destroy the Gate before The Dark One can get advantage of it.

5) The Gate Defenders. "We are finally doing this... Fun while it lasted... exising (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html)". Sound quite ominous. (Assuming they *are* the Gate Defenders).

6) The Order of the Stick. They already blown two, but dysfunctional heroism knows no bounds.

7) O-Chul/Lien. Scarface already tried to blown one, but failed. Time to remove that thorn from his conscience.

8) Oona/Greyview/bugbears. Oona seems to like existing, and I can't think of a reason for her to blow it. But she's around, so she qualifies as capable of getting the job done.

9) Monster in the Darkness. He appears to be unable to realize the Gates, so he trampling over the last one and destroying it by accident would be fitting. Bonus points if it times with his expected Big Reveal Out of Darkness.

10) Redcloak's niece.

...

My money is on Xykon, IFFC a close second.

UPDATE:

RESULTS SO FAR

- IFFC: 4 (Ionathus, Mic_128, MoiMagnus, The4bestgame)
- Xykon: 2 (dancrilis, me)
- Belkar: 2 (P.LOC, Bongos)
- MitD: 1 (Crusher)
- Miko Mayazaki: 1 (Ginasius)
- Team Tarquin/Nale: 1 (WolvesbaneIII)
- Blackwing: 1 (Brumagris)
- Redcloak: 1 (Riftwolf)


Updated to expand on MitD and add Redcloak's niece.

[dancrilis]

I am saying Xykon but only after he co-opts the ritual.

[Ionathus]

We all know it's bound to happen. So put your quatloos where your mouth is.

I'm gonna play the long odds and say "it doesn't," just for spiciness and unpredictability. If the gate goes up, it seems like the gods have already agreed to pull the plug, which would preclude any further shenanigans. If shenanigans happen, they'll happen regardless of the final gate's status.

If I have to pick a destroyer, my bet's on the IFCC swooping in to ruin the best laid plans of mice and monsters. Like a sledgehammer to the plot's finely-tuned clockwork.

[Mic_128]

I'm not sure who will actually do the deed, but my wager is that it's as a direct result of the IFCC's actions.

[Emanick]

I'm not sure what will happen, but it seems deeply presumptuous to me to say that the last gate will be destroyed when, as far as we know, that spells the end of the world. So I'm going to go ahead and say that it won't happen.

[Ginasius]

I'm not sure what will happen, but it seems deeply presumptuous to me to say that the last gate will be destroyed when, as far as we know, that spells the end of the world. So I'm going to go ahead and say that it won't happen.

I like to take risks and I bet for Miko Miyazaki.

She's done it before.

[Nail]

What are the odds on it falling by itself?

[InvisibleBison]

I also don't think the gate is going to be destroyed.

[Emanick]

What are the odds on it falling by itself?

I'm gonna say like 1 in 70,000.

[Ionathus]

I'm gonna say like 1 in 70,000.

Serini hired even shoddier contractors than Dorukan did.

[KorvinStarmast]

9) Monster in the Darkness. Because why not? What gate? :mitd:

I'm not sure what will happen, but it seems deeply presumptuous to me to say that the last gate will be destroyed when, as far as we know, that spells the end of the world. So I'm going to go ahead and say that it won't happen. As am I.

[The Pilgrim]

What are the odds on it falling by itself?

Mmmh... that would count as "destroyed by the defenders" maybe? If it falls because of a construction flaw, it's basically the fault of those who built it, and those who should be doing the maintenance work.

[Mic_128]

I'm not sure what will happen, but it seems deeply presumptuous to me to say that the last gate will be destroyed when, as far as we know, that spells the end of the world.

That doesn't mean it would be the end of the story.

[The Pilgrim]

That doesn't mean it would be the end of the story.

According to Loki (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html), if the last gate blowns up, 10-15 minutes would remain left before the Snarl gets out.

It's assumed the Gods would use that time to destroy the World. However, Loki mentioned that they would have time to pull the plug if they all agreed to that course of action. And as far as we know, the Gods haven't agreed to that course of action.

If the last gate gets destroyed and some Gods move in to destroy the world, they would risk to create a second Snarl if they find opposition from other Gods. Many Gods may find preferable to let the Snarl unmake the world rather than let Hel become the Queen of the Northern Pantheon.

And that is, assuming the Snarl behaves like it always has. Which doesn't seems to be the case. "Yarn is winding Yarn". Something is different this time.

My point here is, the last gate getting destroyed and the world being saved in the end aren't mutually exclusive outcomes.

[P.LOC]

If I had to bet, I'd put 1 cent on Belkar, so count me for OOTS.
I also bet all my money on Jiminy. He should test the newly forged halberds

[Toad]

Can I be daring and add a vote for "The Gate doesn't get destroyed?"

[The Pilgrim]

What gate? :mitd:

Mmmh... we know MitD is oblivious to the Gates, so it would be fitting if he tramples over the last one and destroys it by accident. Bonus points if it coincides with his Big Reveal. I'm gonna add that to my OP.


If I had to bet, I'd put 1 cent on Belkar, so count me for OOTS.
I also bet all my money on Jiminy. He should test the newly forged halberds

When in doubt, set everything on Fire. Fitting for Belkar.

Also your blue comment has made me realize there is a potential candidate I haven't entertained. I'll add her to the list. Ten is a nice number for a list.

[Ron Miel]

Can I be daring and add a vote for "The Gate doesn't get destroyed?"

I agree. My bet is on nobody destroys the gate. Or

[ByzantiumBhuka]

My bet is on nobody destroys the gate.

Yeah, I'll put my money on an unexpected Odysseus too.

[Emanick]

Mmmh... we know MitD is oblivious to the Gates, so it would be fitting if he tramples over the last one and destroys it by accident. Bonus points if it coincides with his Big Reveal. I'm gonna add that to my OP.



When in doubt, set everything on Fire. Fitting for Belkar.

Also your blue comment has made me realize there is a potential candidate I haven't entertained. I'll add her to the list. Ten is a nice number for a list.

Wanna put the votes for "nobody destroys the Gate" in your first post? The data set must be complete! :smalltongue:

[Riftwolf]

Ooh, I know! The back cover of the final print book.
After that, no more Gate XD

[The Pilgrim]

Wanna put the votes for "nobody destroys the Gate" in your first post? The data set must be complete! :smalltongue:

I did not ask *if* the Gate will be destroyed. I did ask about *who*.

The speculation about *if* the Gate will get destroyed is worth it's own betting thread. Perhaps I will open a new one to make that bet once this one dies out. Double the bet, double the fun.

[Emanick]

I did not ask *if* the Gate will be destroyed. I did ask about *who*.

The speculation about *if* the Gate will get destroyed is worth it's own betting thread. Perhaps I will open a new one to make that bet once this one dies out. Double the bet, double the fun.

Odysseus would argue that Nobody is a person too.

...and now I get ByzantiumBhuka's joke, having inadvertently copied it. I almost asked for clarification.

[InvisibleBison]

I did not ask *if* the Gate will be destroyed. I did ask about *who*.

Okay, then, in the spirit of this thread I'm going to bet on the Snarl destroying the Gate.

[The Pilgrim]

Odysseus would argue that Nobody is a person too.

...and now I get ByzantiumBhuka's joke, having inadvertently copied it. I almost asked for clarification.

Well, I suppose the King of Nowhere can show up and blow it up...

[MoiMagnus]

I vote for "V under the control of the IFCC"

[KorvinStarmast]

I vote for "V under the control of the IFCC" As I think it through, that's a neat idea but I was under the impression that V is simply moved down into the appropriate lower plane for a bit until the time is up on that member's alloted minutes. But Rich doesn't have to feel bound by that, and this is plausible.

My other reaction is "Hasn't V already done a world-wide awful thing?" Yes, yes V did. I do not expect to see that replicated with the gate that ends the whole world ... but never say never.

[Mic_128]

My point here is, the last gate getting destroyed and the world being saved in the end aren't mutually exclusive outcomes.

So basically, what I said? The gate can be destroyed, and it doesn't mean that's the end of the story.

[WolvesbaneIII]

What about tarquin and his gang? Some kind of cliche where "if i cant no one can!"

Or nale?

[skim172]

Can I be daring and add a vote for "The Gate doesn't get destroyed?"

:mitd:: "Awesome! I want to bet on 'Escapes and lives happily ever after'." (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html)



Just to be hipster and different, I'm gonna say that the gate has already been destroyed. By Serini. The gate is already gone. The Snarl is already loose.

What possible evidence supports this? Nothing at all.

But I just wanted to be the first to say it. I am the trend-setter.

[Emanick]

As I think it through, that's a neat idea but I was under the impression that V is simply moved down into the appropriate lower plane for a bit until the time is up on that member's alloted minutes. But Rich doesn't have to feel bound by that, and this is plausible.

My other reaction is "Hasn't V already done a world-wide awful thing?" Yes, yes V did. I do not expect to see that replicated with the gate that ends the whole world ... but never say never.

I agree with your first reaction - it's an interesting idea, but seems unlikely for the reason you point out - but this wouldn't really be V doing a world-wide awful thing, because V would have no say in the matter. Unlike Familicide, there would be no moral culpability (or there would, but it would merely further underscore the significance of something V did three books earlier, rather than reflecting V's current moral agency). I think that's pretty different.

[Yanisa]

I'm putting my vote on Sir Thumb (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html). I am currently working on a out-there-theory and I strongly suspect he had an hand in every gate destruction so far.

[Emanick]

I'm putting my vote on Sir Thump (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html). I am currently working on a out-there-theory and I strongly suspect he had an hand in every gate destruction so far.

Sorry, your link took me to a seemingly unrelated page. Do you mean this lil guy (https://ibb.co/J3V1FHk)?

I am 97% sure he had nothing to do with it all!

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm putting my vote on Sir Thump (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0864.html). That would be Sir Thumb, and I think that's when Rich had his injury, hence Sir Thumb is Rich.

I am currently working on a out-there-theory and I strongly suspect he had an hand in every gate destruction so far.
Of course he did. Rich is the author of the strip, the ultimate cause of all and sundry. (By the way, nice pun "had a hand in" :smallsmile: )

[The4bestgame]

Put me down for "IFCC tricks the gods into destroying it."

[Ron Miel]

Sorry, your link took me to a seemingly unrelated page.


Look at the second to last panel. Sir Thumb battles the glass monsters.

[GravityEmblem]

Look at the second to last panel. Sir Thumb battles the glass monsters.

Sarcastic pointing out that you missed the sarcasm about the misspelling

[Emanick]

Look at the second to last panel. Sir Thumb battles the glass monsters.

Right, but where's Sir Thump? I don't see him anywhere in the comic!

[WanderingMist]

My bet's on no one, and it will remain intact. There's all this talk about getting The Dark One to ally with the current gods but have any of them ever attempted communicating with the Snarl itself?

[Precure]

Greyview: Existence is pain *bites the gate*

KABOOOOM!!!

Relevant, I believe.

[Metastachydium]

If the Gate is getting destroyed (which I doubt will happen), the work shall be done by a treant. They did it before, they can do it again.

[Brumagris]

I like to take risks and I bet for Miko Miyazaki.

She's done it before.

Now this is a style I like, a lot.


My vote goes for Blackwing. That would be the ideal canvas for his (or her?) melodramatic ego to reach its full potential. Plus, the gate may as well be inside a shiny bauble again.

[Riftwolf]

If we're going spitball theories, I'm gonna say Redcloak. Turns out the ritual doesn't actually work and he sends an aperture to God-killer McTentacles to the Dark One, wiping out the entire goblin afterlife.
And before you ask, yes, I'm OK hun, just having a bad day.

[Peelee]

3) The IFCC. Their scheme seems related to destroying the World.

I'm not so sure about that, actually. I think, if anything, they'd want to save it.

ETA: I also think Scooter and Kermit are definitely not up to no good.

[littlebum2002]

You need to start tracking all the people who say "It doesn't get destroyed". That's my vote

[Bongos]

Gonna go with Belkar on this one.

[Sniper Jo]

If the gate goes up, it seems like the gods have already agreed to pull the plug, which would preclude any further shenanigans. If shenanigans happen, they'll happen regardless of the final gate's status.

I don't think they CAN, though. The Godsmoot vote can't be finalised until the Dwarves make a new table, the gods who have voted can't change their votes because of no backsies, and they presumably can't hold another vote until the current one ends.

[Peelee]

I don't think they CAN, though. The Godsmoot vote can't be finalised until the Dwarves make a new table, the gods who have voted can't change their votes because of no backsies, and they presumably can't hold another vote until the current one ends.

The Godsmoot question seems to concern blowing the world before the last gate goes. No gate? And boom goes the dynamite.

[InvisibleBison]

The Godsmoot question seems to concern blowing the world before the last gate goes. No gate? And boom goes the dynamite.

I'm not so sure about that. Loki says (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) there would be time to destroy the world between the destruction of the last Gate and the Snarl getting loose "if [the gods] all agree on that course of action". Since they didn't come to an agreement to do that, I don't think they will be able to destroy the world before the Snarl gets loose and does it for them.

[Metastachydium]

I'm not so sure about that. Loki says (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) there would be time to destroy the world between the destruction of the last Gate and the Snarl getting loose "if [the gods] all agree on that course of action". Since they didn't come to an agreement to do that, I don't think they will be able to destroy the world before the Snarl gets loose and does it for them.

I've been saying that a lot a while ago, and you people called me MAD! (The fact that I used it as an argument for why the Plan is a viable plan might have been part of the reason why, but still.)

[Emanick]

I'm not so sure about that. Loki says (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html) there would be time to destroy the world between the destruction of the last Gate and the Snarl getting loose "if [the gods] all agree on that course of action". Since they didn't come to an agreement to do that, I don't think they will be able to destroy the world before the Snarl gets loose and does it for them.

I've seen it suggested before that the gods probably have a standing agreement to destroy the world immediately if The Snarl breaks loose, and that that supersedes anything else. I agree with that theory. It's in all the gods' best interest to get Soul Power, after all.

[InvisibleBison]

I've seen it suggested before that the gods probably have a standing agreement to destroy the world immediately if The Snarl breaks loose, and that that supersedes anything else. I agree with that theory. It's in all the gods' best interest to get Soul Power, after all.

It would make sense, but I think Loki's quote that I linked to before contradicts that theory. If there already was such an agreement, why would the gods only be able to act on it if they again agreed to do so during the Godsmoot?

[Marsala]

I've seen it suggested before that the gods probably have a standing agreement to destroy the world immediately if The Snarl breaks loose, and that that supersedes anything else. I agree with that theory. It's in all the gods' best interest to get Soul Power, after all.

Even if they do have such an agreement, their current deadlock could make activating the emergency world destruction legally difficult and could delay it by enough to be too late (or possibly give the heroes just enough time to save the world after all).

[Crusher]

MitD gets my bet

[DreamCreator]

This just came to me. I have no attachment to it being true, but it flashed through my mind as a possibility after reading the OP and a few responses.

I think (as we get close this part where everyone is honing in on the last gate) Xykon and Redcloak will have a schism in which they end up dueling- Xykon with the intent to kill Redcloak because he is sick and tired of his silly plans for the goblins. Redcloak will be mortally wounded and either just barely escape through some plane shift maneuver, or someone, maybe the Order, will rescue him. At this point he may reconsider negotiations with Durkon to open a channel of communication between The Dark One and Thor - either because he sees they/Durkon really want to help, or because that ends up being the best option for still having his plans work for the good of all goblins.

[Goblin_Priest]

I don't expect the last gate to fall. It would kind of undermine the whole tension of "race to prevent the Fall of the last gate" if the last gate falling isn't a game-ender.

[Emanick]

It would make sense, but I think Loki's quote that I linked to before contradicts that theory. If there already was such an agreement, why would the gods only be able to act on it if they again agreed to do so during the Godsmoot?

I don't see why Loki's quote contradicts that theory. His whole point is that the gods can immediately destroy the world without a fuss in like 15 minutes, which presumably means that the high priests get no say in it and thus Godsmoots are irrelevant once the Snarl is loose.

[Peelee]

Loki says "if we all agree on that course of action today", not "if the majority decides on that course of action today". They could all agree that the world should be blown if the Snarl gets out regardless of the outcome of a simple-majority vote on whether to blow it upon completion of the vote.

[DreamCreator]

I don't expect the last gate to fall. It would kind of undermine the whole tension of "race to prevent the Fall of the last gate" if the last gate falling isn't a game-ender.

True, we also realize that things aren't exactly as they seem. The last gate being destroyed might lead to an entirely different scenario then the Order, or maybe any of the parties involved are aware of.

I also agree though that I have not expected the last gate to fall. And, I think this story is creative enough that we just might go there... but not in the way we think.

[InvisibleBison]

I don't see why Loki's quote contradicts that theory. His whole point is that the gods can immediately destroy the world without a fuss in like 15 minutes, which presumably means that the high priests get no say in it and thus Godsmoots are irrelevant once the Snarl is loose.

Loki's point is that the gods can destroy the world without a fuss if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot. My point is that the gods didn't agree to do so at the Godsmoot, and therefore they cannot destroy the world without a fuss.

[Peelee]

Loki's point is that the gods can destroy the world without a fuss if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot.

I don't think that was ever in question, so it seems like an odd point to make if that's how it's meant.

[Goblin_Priest]

It sounded to me like there was always a "snarl clause", where the gods may need a majority vote to undo the world while there remains gates to keep the Snarl in check, but should they all fail, then it's time to immediately undo the world.

[Metastachydium]

I'd say that if clause very clearly implies that there is no such thing as a pre-approved Armageddon Special.
The wording may suggest that the gods can table the current majority vote, but that doesn't mean that an absolute consensus will immediately form, especially since unleashing Armageddon Special takes three pantheons.

[The Pilgrim]

I really don't see all the Gods agreeing to destroying the world instead of letting it get unmade by the Snarl. Specially after Hel announced her plans about using the dwarven souls and winnings from the bet to become Queen of the Northern Pantheon (Hel gets absolutely nothing if the Snarl unmakes the World).

Not to mention that I'm not entirely sure the Gods could muster the courage to set foot on the Prime when the Snarl is about to break out of it's prison and go on a rampage.

Thor mentioned that, of the past worlds, some they cashed in before the Snarl destroyed them, others they did not (#1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html)). So, destroying the world before the Snarl gets released is not a guaranteed possibility for them.

[Ron Miel]

Who will destroy the last gate

I don't know and I don't give a damn.

[KorvinStarmast]

[B] I don't know and I don't give a damn. Country Joe, I've got your fish right here. :smallbiggrin:

(not sure how many folks will get the ref ... it may not have aged well)

[Goblin_Priest]

I really don't see all the Gods agreeing to destroying the world instead of letting it get unmade by the Snarl. Specially after Hel announced her plans about using the dwarven souls and winnings from the bet to become Queen of the Northern Pantheon (Hel gets absolutely nothing if the Snarl unmakes the World).

Not to mention that I'm not entirely sure the Gods could muster the courage to set foot on the Prime when the Snarl is about to break out of it's prison and go on a rampage.

Thor mentioned that, of the past worlds, some they cashed in before the Snarl destroyed them, others they did not (#1140 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1140.html)). So, destroying the world before the Snarl gets released is not a guaranteed possibility for them.

Hel would only reign supreme for one pantheon, one world, but everyone would still get a great buffet to keep on going.

If the Snarl undoes the world, that's like everyone going into winter with empty granaries, just for the sake of the Lord not going in with more than everyone else. That's just suicidal. Plus the snarl may off a few gods in the process, and Hel's power would be mostly limited to just one of billions of iterations of the world.

A Snarl clause seems very plausible to me.

[InvisibleBison]

I don't think that was ever in question, so it seems like an odd point to make if that's how it's meant.

Loki was making that point in order to convince the gods that destroying the world immediately would be premature.

[Metastachydium]

Hel would only reign supreme for one pantheon, one world, but everyone would still get a great buffet to keep on going.

If the Snarl undoes the world, that's like everyone going into winter with empty granaries, just for the sake of the Lord not going in with more than everyone else. That's just suicidal. Plus the snarl may off a few gods in the process, and Hel's power would be mostly limited to just one of billions of iterations of the world.

The gods have lost many worlds to the Snarl before (as per Thor), including the very first one. We know of a grand total of two gods who might not make it through the transition period: Big Purple and Hel. The rest would almost certainly be fine.


A Snarl clause seems very plausible to me.

We have possible evidence in the text against this idea (Loki's „if we all agree”), and no evidence for it.

[The Pilgrim]

Hel would only reign supreme for one pantheon, one world, but everyone would still get a great buffet to keep on going.

If the Snarl undoes the world, that's like everyone going into winter with empty granaries, just for the sake of the Lord not going in with more than everyone else. That's just suicidal. Plus the snarl may off a few gods in the process, and Hel's power would be mostly limited to just one of billions of iterations of the world.

A Snarl clause seems very plausible to me.

The Gods have went under that "going into winter with empty granaries" scenarios a lot of times, though. And survived.

On the other hand, they only need a few Gods objecting to destroy the World for all the Gods to do nothing out of fear of creating a second Snarl. As far as we know, the only means the Gods have to take a "safe" decission is the Godsmoot. And the current one has been stalled indefinitely with no decision taken.

Loki mentioning that they still have a few minutes to destroy the world after the last gate is blown, *if* they agree to *that* course of action, seems to imply that no auto-destroy-the-world clause exists.

[Ionathus]

Hel would only reign supreme for one pantheon, one world, but everyone would still get a great buffet to keep on going.

Who's to say Hel would only rule the pantheon in the next single world? She says she'd be "Queen of the Northern Pantheon" and nobody seems to refute that. It's not a single-term election, it's a coup. And once she's on top, it'll be easier to stay on top.

[Peelee]

Loki was making that point in order to convince the gods that destroying the world immediately would be premature.

Yes, but you yourself said "if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot." Agreeing to do so at the godsmoot means it goes immediately, so that's a remarkably poor argument to make for someone who doesn't want it to go immediately.

"Even if we all agree on pizza today, we can still have pizza tomorrow, so vote spaghetti!" Well, if we all agree on pizza today, then it's pizza today. For the Spaghetti argument to make any sense at all, that's clearly not what must be meant.

[InvisibleBison]

Yes, but you yourself said "if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot." Agreeing to do so at the godsmoot means it goes immediately, so that's a remarkably poor argument to make for someone who doesn't want it to go immediately.

"Even if we all agree on pizza today, we can still have pizza tomorrow, so vote spaghetti!" Well, if we all agree on pizza today, then it's pizza today. For the Spaghetti argument to make any sense at all, that's clearly not what must be meant.

The "if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot" that I mentioned wasn't in reference to the vote that actually happened at the Godsmoot. It was in reference to Loki's alternative proposal, that the gods wait and only destroy the world if the last Gate would be destroyed.

To appropriate your metaphor, Loki's argument is "We don't need to eat pizza, we can eat spaghetti instead if we all agree to."

[Peelee]

The "if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot" that I mentioned wasn't in reference to the vote that actually happened at the Godsmoot. It was in reference to Loki's alternative proposal, that the gods wait and only destroy the world if the last Gate would be destroyed.

To appropriate your metaphor, Loki's argument is "We don't need to eat pizza, we can eat spaghetti instead if we all agree to."

That seems at odds with this:
Loki's point is that the gods can destroy the world without a fuss if they agree to do so at the Godsmoot.

You first said Loki's point is that the gods can destroy the world without a fuss if they agree to do so at the godsmoot. You then said Loki's argument was "we don't need to destroy the world, we can not do that instead if we all agree to". You're having Loki say they're agreeing to completely opposite things.

[InvisibleBison]

That seems at odds with this:

You first said Loki's point is that the gods can destroy the world without a fuss if they agree to do so at the godsmoot. You then said Loki's argument was "we don't need to destroy the world, we can not do that instead if we all agree to". You're having Loki say they're agreeing to completely opposite things.

In the first post that you quoted, I was attempting to explain Loki's alternative solution to the issue of all but one of the gates having been destroyed, which was to wait and only destroy the world if the last gate were to be destroyed as well. Loki's argument is "We don't need to destroy the world now, we should agree to do so later if it's necessary."

In the second post that you quoted, I was arguing that the gods cannot destroy the world without having previously agreed to do so at a Godsmoot, and Loki's speech at the Godsmoot implies there is no standing agreement to destroy the world if all the gates are destroyed, so if the last gate is destroyed the gods will not be able to destroy the world (able politically, that is).

[The Pilgrim]

Loki's exact words are:

"Look, if that last rift is opened, there will still be, like, ten to fifteen minutes before You-Know-Who gets out, right? More than enough time to pull the plug, if we all agree to that course of action today".

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0998.html

Peelee seems to understand the "that course of action" means "not destroying the world now". While my take is "that course of action" means "waiting until the last gate falls before destroying the world".

This is how Loki's words look depending on the interpretation:

#1
"Look, if that last rift is opened, there will still be, like, ten to fifteen minutes before You-Know-Who gets out, right? More than enough time to pull the plug, if we all agree to not destroy the World yet".

#2
"Look, if that last rift is opened, there will still be, like, ten to fifteen minutes before You-Know-Who gets out, right? More than enough time to pull the plug, if we all agree to wait until the last gate falls before destroying the World".

#1 implies that the decission to destroy the world if the last gate falls is already granted, for a pre-existing agreement. #2 implies the Gods need not only to agree not to destroy the world yet, but also agree to destroy the World after the last gate has fallen.

So, as far as I understand, Peelee (and several others) stance is:
- The Gods have already a Rule binding them to destroy the world if the last gate falls.

My point (and apparently some other people's too) is:
- There is no agreement between the Gods to destroy the world if the last gate falls.

I substantiate my stance in the following points:

1. There is no mention in the Comic that the Gods have any Rule binding them to destroy the World if the Last Gate Falls.

2. Destryoing the World before the Snarl breaks out isn't a guaranteed possibility, given that Thor mentions several previous worlds were unmade by the Snarl before they could destroy them and cash in the souls. This is why the Gods are now discussing destroying the World *before* the Last Gate goes, while it's still safe to do so.

Think about it. If blowing up the last gate automatically involved the Gods destroying the World, why would Hel need to devise an intrincate plan to rig the vote at the Godsmoot, when she could have just instructed her High Priest, already infiltratad in the Order, to just march with them to the North Pole and blow the last gate as soon as it's found?

[Edreyn]

Don't know why or how, but the last (what) Gate will be destroyed by MiTD. Maybe he will also be revealed by this stage.

[WanderingMist]

Hey, wait, what if the Snarl itself destroys the last Gate? What if the Gates were never as effective as anyone thought? What if the Snarl was simply choosing not to destroy them, as the planet within the rift indicates it's more intelligent than everyone has been led to believe.

[Metastachydium]

Hey, wait, what if the Snarl itself destroys the last Gate? What if the Gates were never as effective as anyone thought? What if the Snarl was simply choosing not to destroy them, as the planet within the rift indicates it's more intelligent than everyone has been led to believe.

I'd argue that the existence of the planet tells us precious little about the Snarl's level of intelligence.

[Mariele]

Country Joe, I've got your fish right here. :smallbiggrin:

(not sure how many folks will get the ref ... it may not have aged well)

Open up those pearly gates!

I don't think it'll get destroyed, but if I had to guess anyone, I dunno man, Serini? Why not that sounds like a fun guess I'll go with it

[denthor]

Serini hired even shoddier contractors than Dorukan did.

Not shoddy contractors. Union mob labor she forgot to pay the bribes. Wrote a contract that she later admitted was poorly worded and used as cigar wrapping. So the evidence could not be used in court.

See comic 410 for reference

[Precure]

IFCC, it's their time shine.

[KorvinStarmast]

IFCC, it's their time shine. Putting on my DM hat: they aren't PCs so they don't need to shine. That their further involvement has been foreshadowed assures us that we'll see more of them.