Thoughts on my take on the Dark Sun Gladiator class.

[Nickplatino]

Hi,

I found a Gladiator archetype in Homebrewery and tweaked it a lot and this are the results:

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/edit/CBIFlNJq-4

It is based on the Battle Master Fighter but it has some keys that make it very different from a regular fighter:

- Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields.
- Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma.

The loss of Heavy armor either makes it invest ability points into dex even if it's going to be a gladiator with non finesse weapons and if someone decides to take the heavily armored feat (or multiclass) to gain proficiency in heavy armor you would be losing the benefits of Expert Brawler witch increases the damage die of unarmoured attacks while not wearing heavy armor. I wanted to make sure that when a gladiator is not wearing heavy armor it is rewarded as i don't think they usually wear one in the arena.

The combination of the lack of Heavy armor proficiency and the dependence on Charisma of several of the abilities it has makes the gladiator probably as MAD as a Ranger using strength weaponry and even more if the ranger uses finesse weapons. This is a sought hindrance. Dirty Fighting, Gladiatorial Trick DC, Eye for an Eye (Pit Fighter) and Harass (Arena Champion) as well as some tricks all depend on Charisma to some extent.

Comparing the Battle Master vs the Gladiator the latter has more tricks per short rest, but lacks the possibility of gaining 1 trick die when rolling initiative without dice available (Relentless). Maybe the amount of trick dice and cool features the gladiator has offsets the lack of heavy armor and the MADness of the class.

Armor Optimization was one of the defining factors of the classic AD&D Dark Sun Gladiator so i wanted to bring it back.

Expert Brawler works well with the unarmed strikes the gladiator is able to land.

What do you think? Do you feel it is balanced? Would you have some cool ability to add or to replace?

Thank you.

[Naanomi]

Gladiator, to me, is a concept that can be handled without a unique class... or even subclass. It is more of a background for fighters, Barbarians, some rogues, maybe monks... it lived best in an era when rangers and Paladins were ‘better fighters because you had high stat rolls’, it doesn’t seem to be a concept screaming for unique characterization (then again, I’d suggest ranger doesn’t anymore either)

That being said; your mechanics seem ok. Traditionally Gladiators had that d12 hit die also didn’t they?

[Nickplatino]

Gladiator, to me, is a concept that can be handled without a unique class... or even subclass. It is more of a background for fighters, Barbarians, some rogues, maybe monks... it lived best in an era when rangers and Paladins were ‘better fighters because you had high stat rolls’, it doesn’t seem to be a concept screaming for unique characterization (then again, I’d suggest ranger doesn’t anymore either)

That being said; your mechanics seem ok. Traditionally Gladiators had that d12 hit die also didn’t they?
I think in AD&D fighters and gladiators have the same hit die.

[Damon_Tor]

I've been fiddling with a gladiator fighter subclass for a while, a cha-secondary fighter concept. I solved the armor issue by letting them use Cha Mod in place of Dex in AC calculations.

[Amdy_vill]

I think you need to do two things. the first is to distinguish the Gladiator more from the fighter. make it more mechanical and thematical different. right now it feels like it's only halfway there. more of some extra rules on top/replace the fighter. the second is more subclasses. In my honest opinion if you can create 5 generic but mechanically distincted subclasses you better off making it class into several subclasses and alt features.

Edit: what you have is good but it just lacks the distinctness that a class needs. look at the differences between the other 13 classes and blood hunter. while they share some abilities not even close to the amount Gladiator shares with fighters.

What I mean by this is Gladiator shares fighting styles, feats, and most of the extra attacks with fighter. and these abilities make up the bulk of both classes. you should try to separate them more. maybe reduce extra attack on gladiator in favor of a bonus action attack ability. Replace Gladiator's better feat progression with a mini feat system like warlock invocations. things like this would separate the classes more and give Gladiator more of an identity

[Nickplatino]

I've been fiddling with a gladiator fighter subclass for a while, a cha-secondary fighter concept. I solved the armor issue by letting them use Cha Mod in place of Dex in AC calculations.

Interesting take, any other insight?