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View Full Version : The Darth Maul, Or: Psi Warrior/Barbarian, a strong multiclass?



Unoriginal
2020-12-09, 04:25 PM
This reflection started out as me asking myself how would Darth Maul be best represented as a 5e PC. Here are my musings, hoping you will find them of interest.

Anger Leads to Hate. And Hate Leads to Suffering.

Barbarian isn't the easiest option for multiclassing. Between the Rage restricting spellcasting, the heavy stat dependency, and the relative lack of synergy between the Barbarian's perks and the ones granted by most other classes, it is difficult to come up with a multiclass including Barbarian (either as primary or as secondary) where the investment doesn't feel quite costly for the results.

Enter the Psi Warrior.

Quicker, Easier, More Seductive

The Psi Warrior has several advantages over other options for multiclassing with Barbarian:

- Shared stat requirement for multiclassing.

- Number of capacity uses/long rest dependent on proficiency modifier, not class level.

- Capacities synergize well with the Barbarian's roles (even at 3rd level: diminishing the hurt when hit, increasing the hurt when hitting, and moving a teammates either closer or farther from the action without risk from the enemies' Opportunity Attacks).

- Does not require a big stat investment to make the capacities worthwhile.

- Access to Second Wind, Action Surge, and a Fighting Style (like all Fighter multiclasses)

- Medium armor and Danger Sense allow one to not invest too much in DEX, which means INT can be invested in instead. The Fighting Style can be used to strengthen the defensive capabilities of the character if it is considered needed.

- [If Fighter is the primary class] Additional ASIs help with the slowed down ASI gain due to multiclass.


The Master, or the Apprentice?

My recommendation: take 2 levels of Barbarian and the rest of Psi Warrior Fighter, giving you a diamond-jaw combatant whose martial prowesses are complemented both by strong, aggressive strikes that bait the enemies into focusing their aggression on them and by a strong defense making maintaining said aggression an ill-advised idea.

Plus there is the awesomeness to just being able to lift a Large object with the power of your mind and let it drop on your enemies, while still Raging.

Not a Story the Jedi Would Tell

However, that is not to say that taking 3 levels of Barbarian can't be worthwhile. On top of the additional d12 Hit Dice and the optional Primal Knowledge feature, most of the Barbarian subclasses do have perks useful for the character (and also quite flavorful ones, if you want to Sith it up):

-Ancestral Guardian: the spirits of the dead help you force the enemy to focus their aggression on you.

-Beast: every Rage, you get the choice between an additional attack, healing for proficiency bonus if you hit someone once per turn, and a Reaction-based 1d8 bonus to AC. Let the beast inside out.

-Storm Herald: you get the choice between a bit of constant fire damage on everyone within 10ft of you, a tiny bit of temporary HPs, or the capacity to strike an enemy with lightning for extra damage.

-Totem Warrior: your Rage gives either more resistances, more jumping distance, more walking speed, a Dash bonus action and becoming harder to hit for Opportunity Attacks, and giving advantage in melee to your allies against the enemies 5ft around your

-Wild Magic: you now have a sixth sense for magic, as well as a random special effect when you Rage. Most of the possible effects work pretty well with the Psi Warrior toolset.

-Zealot: extra damage once per turn, as well as being easier to be brought back from the dead.

That being said, I do not personally recommend trading a Fighter level for any of those unless you prefer that flavor.

What do you folks think?

Dork_Forge
2020-12-09, 05:21 PM
Nice it seems like a good way to emulate Darth Maul, a couple of thoughts though:

-You can't benefit from heavy armor since you can't rage in it, so you'd probably be better off starting Barbarian for the hp, a two level dip isn't terrible even if delaying Extra Attack hurts a little

-What is the suggested Int score for this? The Psi Warrior's abilities rely heavily on Int to make them more reliable and powerful, dumping it would be a mistake imo

Unoriginal
2020-12-09, 05:31 PM
Nice it seems like a good way to emulate Darth Maul, a couple of thoughts though:

-You can't benefit from heavy armor since you can't rage in it, so you'd probably be better off starting Barbarian for the hp, a two level dip isn't terrible even if delaying Extra Attack hurts a little

Damn, I can't believe I messed up so bad. Must have skipped a line when I re-read the Barbarian.

Thanks a lot, I've corrected the OP.



-What is the suggested Int score for this? The Psi Warrior's abilities rely heavily on Int to make them more reliable and powerful, dumping it would be a mistake imo

Dumping INT would indeed be a mistake, but "INT makes the abilities more reliable and powerful" doesn't mean "very high INT is needed". My suggested score would be a 14 (or starting at 13).


The race I suggest for a Darth Maul build would be Githyanki, as not only the racial mods are in STR and INT, you also get more Force-user-appropriate psionic powers from that option. Sadly the Githyanki's psionic powers are spells, but you can use them when you don't Rage and keep your psionic dices when you do.

Syjyl4488
2022-02-28, 02:13 PM
I was actually considering a 3 lvl dip in bear totem barb for a dwarven psi warrior at 12th lvl…stats are 18 str 14 dex 18 con 19 int (hoi) 14 wis and 8 cha

RogueJK
2022-02-28, 03:08 PM
Hmm... this build would need a 14+ INT, a 14 DEX (Medium armor), a 16+ CON, and a maxed STR.

That's fairly MAD. Tough to pull off with point buy or the standard array. Most easily doable with either a Mountain Dwarf or a Half Elf with dumped WIS and CHA.

You'd be looking at something like this with point buy and a Mountain Dwarf:
STR 14+2
DEX 14
CON 14+2
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 8

+2 STR at Fighter 4 (Level 6), Telekinetic +1 INT at Fighter 6 (Level 8), +2 STR at Fighter 8 (Level 10), and then +2 INT or CON at Fighter 12, 14, and 16.


Or a Half Elf with the standard array, going:
STR 14+2
DEX 13+1
CON 15+1
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 8

Going +2 STR at Fighter 4 (Level 6), +2 INT at Fighter 6 (Level 8), +2 STR at Fighter 8 (Level 10), and then +2 INT or CON at Fighter 12, 14, and 16.

Psyren
2022-02-28, 04:40 PM
I'm compelled to ask - why Barbarian? Yeah Sith weaponize emotion to a degree, but you don't need the rage feature for that. Just be dex/int based and say you're mad :smalltongue: this will also let you get the good stuff from Psi Warrior sooner, particularly d8+Int and d10+Int Protective Fields which seem to be accomplishing the same purpose Barbarian would have (i.e. reducing incoming damage.)

JLandan
2022-02-28, 05:10 PM
It seems to me the Barbarian level is just thinning out the fighter levels for little real benefit. If you're using armor, Unarmored Defense is out, and while Rage is +2 damage, the extra ASIs for Fighter could be used to make up for it in numerous ways.

If you want to do MAD stuff, a one level dip of Aberrant Mind Sorcerer for the cantrips and a couple of spells would work.

If you just want to be Rage-y, keep Barb to 3rd and go Zealot.

Damon_Tor
2022-02-28, 07:37 PM
I put together a Darth Maul build in a "build a character from some other franchise" thread:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25021769&postcount=26

Yeah, I went with barbarian/psifighter for the first half or so of the build then switched to wizard later, because at the end of his life he was capable of some pretty impressive feats of raw power in terms of his force abilities, ie surviving order 66 unarmed.

Syjyl4488
2022-02-28, 10:49 PM
Well…I’m part of a discord guild, we use 30 pt buy (scores capped at 15 before racial modifiers), so I ended up with 17,14,17,8,13,8…took the headband and heavy armor master for the str boost n dmg reduction at 4th and the asi at 6th to boost con n wis. I always portrayed his character as focusing his blood rage to develop his mind. I was going to roleplay it as once his mind has been sufficiently bolstered by his psionic powers, he will be able to express his rage physically…at this point I will switch to medium armor (hopefully adamantine half plate, but if I can get mizzium half plate later I will). Bear totem for dmg resistances (he’s a gwm user so he’s gonna get hit a lot, eg low ac), so it’ll help him survive longer…I figure 12th to get mobile and help him become a better striker.

Syjyl4488
2022-03-02, 03:04 PM
Tho I wouldn’t mind getting a better ac if anybody has an opinion on how to do that as a heavy weapon user.

Dork_Forge
2022-03-02, 04:10 PM
Tho I wouldn’t mind getting a better ac if anybody has an opinion on how to do that as a heavy weapon user.

Defense style?

Syjyl4488
2022-03-02, 04:50 PM
I had gwf, switched to blind fighting cuz the dm has thrown a few casters with darkness or fog cloud at us

RogueJK
2022-03-03, 10:43 AM
Tho I wouldn’t mind getting a better ac if anybody has an opinion on how to do that as a heavy weapon user.

Bear Totem Barbarians like yours are more about damage mitigation via Resistance (and by simply killing the enemies faster) rather than damage avoidance. Resistance against all damage is essentially equivalent to enemies missing 50% more of their attacks due to a high AC but not having Resistance.

Especially if you're utilizing Reckless Attack to offset the Great Weapon Master attack penalty, which you should be doing as a GWM Barbarian... A higher AC won't matter much because enemies will reliably have Advantage on their attacks against you.

Syjyl4488
2022-03-03, 11:00 PM
Thx!! Didn’t even think of it that way…some of the guides I’ve been reading say that the hp pool and resistances available to a barb is exactly that…being a good damage sponge…low ac, hi health, makes me a juicier target, and if I’m doing 3 attacks per round with gwm, then I’m def more of a threat…esp since I’ll have guarded mind (10th lvl psi warrior feature) as well…they won’t be able to shut me down so they’ll have to focus on trying to kill me while I’m raging…

Syjyl4488
2022-03-07, 01:01 PM
Ok, so…if I do the multi-class after 10th as per rp concept what should I do for feats/asi’s? I was thinking slasher, squat nimbleness, and mobile (for ftr feats at 12,14,n 16)…to increase base speed, add some control effect, and cap str..any alternative ideas/suggestions?