(How) Do you roleplay low INT, WIS and CHA?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone!

After kind of realizing that slowly over time our low INT bard has evolved into the one who often comes up with solutions to problems and intricate plans that don't really seem appropriate for an INT 8 Characater I was wondering how you keep the roleplaying of mental stats in line with the actual values of the attributes. Or do you rely mostly on mechanics like skill checks and roleplay the character without shackling yourself to attribute values?

Cheers

Wasp

[Hael]

When our DM runs point buy, after everything is over for the build he will look at the stats. If someone has int 8, he will bump it to ten, provided that it confers very little mechanical advantage for the build. In other words, that person wasn’t going to asi int for multiclassing purposes or use his prior knowledge of the boost to get an advantage or something like that.

It’s completely immersion breaking to run with sub 10 int. It’s easy enough to rp low cha and wis, but there’s only so many Hulk Smash sessions one can take.

Running very low str or dex is another tough situation that frequently gets the same treatment (eg certain rolling schemes with sub 6 dex/str) bc it starts getting into rping disabled territory which can get dicey.

[PattThe]

In general here's how I take it.
Int. Your character sees a problem and decides to make a strategy despite lack of information, and is ready to charge in with that plan no holds barred. They will defer to the group though.
Wis. Your character sees their own decisions as arbitrarily reliable or unreliable. You aren't likely to defer to the group until significant effort catches your attention. You start off convinced your ideas are as good as anyone else's- or that nobody in the group has an idea worthwhile including yourself. However it is quite easy to convince you otherwise.
Cha. Confidence. Misplaced, half-baked, unfinished, and relying on others to either convince you that your idea is good/bad. It all depends on how your character deals with anxiety. Creatures with apocalyptic charisma have no sense of self. Characters with a low charisma may spend a lot of time questioning their sense of self or be stunned when they realize they might be driving a car to a destination with nobody behind the wheel at all.

[RingoBongo]

For cha, I've had a dwarf who I dumped cha with and described him as "gruff" and when any social rp moment or social moment in general that he does not want to participate in (for whatever reason) , I have him grunt/scoff and try not to include my character into the social action.

[Unoriginal]

Hi everyone!

After kind of realizing that slowly over time our low INT bard has evolved into the one who often comes up with solutions to problems and intricate plans that don't really seem appropriate for an INT 8 Characater I was wondering how you keep the roleplaying of mental stats in line with the actual values of the attributes. Or do you rely mostly on mechanics like skill checks and roleplay the character without shackling yourself to attribute values?

Cheers

Wasp

INT in5e doesn't represent only RAW brainpower, it also cover your general education and knowledge of the world (proficiencies cover specialized knowledge).

INT 8 is on the lower end of average, not having much scientific knowledge and having troubles deducing that something something your senses tell you is real is actually an illusion doesn't mean you can't come up with decent ideas.



Low-INT doesn't even prevent having useful knowledge or moments of cleverness, either. To use two examples: the INT 5 Ogres are bilingual, and one of the NPCs in a published module is an INT 7 man who nevertheless is fully literate and whose current level of riches is entirely due to him successfully identifying and blackmailing a wealthy person he found in a compromising situation. He never gets in troubles for doing that

[Droppeddead]

When our DM runs point buy, after everything is over for the build he will look at the stats. If someone has int 8, he will bump it to ten, provided that it confers very little mechanical advantage for the build. In other words, that person wasn’t going to asi int for multiclassing purposes or use his prior knowledge of the boost to get an advantage or something like that.

It’s completely immersion breaking to run with sub 10 int. It’s easy enough to rp low cha and wis, but there’s only so many Hulk Smash sessions one can take.

Running very low str or dex is another tough situation that frequently gets the same treatment (eg certain rolling schemes with sub 6 dex/str) bc it starts getting into rping disabled territory which can get dicey.

This seems weird and against what the books tell us about what abilities are. Just because you have an stat below 10 (remember, the average for abilities should be between 9 and 12 if you go by rolling 3D6, which gives us a good average for a normal population) doesn't mean that you are completely worthless.

Abilities aren't just pure genetics but also how well you have honed those abilities. A low intelligence doesn't have to mean that you are stupid, it could just be that you haven't had much or any academical training. A low strength score could mean that you don't have the proper technique to lift heavy things, and so on. Equating an intelligence of 8 with "Hulk smash" is just exaggerated and, if we go by the books, frankly wrong.

To answer OP's question, there are many ways to roleplay low stat characters. Unoriginal is dead on the money about how Int isn't pure brainpower and the smae principle goes for the other stats as well. Here are some examples that I've had plans to run. Not all on the same character, though. ;)

Strength: The character has a injured leg which makes it hard for them to climb and jump properly and also to lift heavy stuff.
Dexterity: The character is a bit clumsy and/or doesn't have good reflexes.
Constitution The person has asthma or perhaps even some other disease that makes itself noticed in opportune moments Like Doc Holiday's tuberculosis. To be fair, I've never seen anyone play with a Con under 10, though. ;)
Intelligence: The character is a person of action ("I vaz elected to leeead, not to reeead!") or is just generally bad at puzzles and trivia. The person who'd rather play Risk than Trivial Pursuit.
Wisdom: The person is absentminded or forgetful or doesn't pay attention to stuff around them. Maybe the get really fascinated by stuff and forget to pay attention to other stuff. Probably the kind of person who's "just gonna check a thing on wikipedia" and then it's four hours later and they are reading an article about Chinese Terracotta soldiers.
Charisma: The person is shy or a bit intimidated due to bad confidence. Harry Potter in the first book is a good example. He's been bullied his whole life and a bit starved for attention so he almost kind of goes along with Draco, just because Draco gives him attention. Or it could be a character that doesn't really care about the opinions of others and just wants to be left alone. A third option could be someone who is all talk but when the ****s hit the fan they break down really quickly, like Hudson from Aliens. This could also overlap a bit with a low Wisdom, depending on personal preference.


I hope it was of some help.

[Demonslayer666]

Low:

Int - the person is not educated well and may have trouble remembering things. Knowledge areas are foreign to them or they guess wrong. Bad at math, history, etc.

Wis - the person does not notice things, so I have them not pay attention and easily distracted. They may dislike animals and avoid them.
Same with being out in nature.

Cha - I'll play them as quiet or even shy and indecisive. Bumble their speech and stumble over their words, and avoids leadership. I'll also go to the opposite end of the spectrum and play them as loud, overbearing and rude. They may have odious personal habits, or obvious mental disorders.


My biggest roleplaying is to sometimes not roll for things and take the auto fail. If the DM says anyone can roll, I just don't and play out something mentioned above.

But, don't tell others how to play a low int/wis/cha. Let them do it however they want. :)

[Avonar]

My biggest roleplaying is to sometimes not roll for things and take the auto fail. If the DM says anyone can roll, I just don't and play out something mentioned above.

This is a useful point. Similarly if I am playing a not very religious character, even if the character might have some intelligence, I will choose not to roll. It just makes more sense.

An 8 in anything is no significant drop, I'd recommend playing them a bit more subtlely than 'complete idiot' for example.

In one campaign, two of us had ultra-low CHA characters, 4 and 5 I think. I was playing a remote tribesman, so I gave him quirks like smiling at inappropriate times and generally seeming frightening whenever he meant to seem friendly. The other character was playing a career soldier, so had him act very formally most of the time, the height of military discipline. For normal people, that would come across strangely too.

[Amdy_vill]

Low int

7-9 normal person how just can do math and can read, still can count but probably doesn't know words like thousand million and higher. probably can sign his name and has a relatively good understanding of langue outside of reading and writing. he has relatively strong diction but probably doesn't know what diction means.

5-6 can't count and can't read at all. diction is probably lacking think grog or Frankenstein. he still has an understandable grasp of language but makes childish errors and lacks an understanding of words outside of a 10-grade reading level. may also not understand basic concepts like fire is dangerous.

2-4 can't count, read or write and struggles with basic language skills. may only know a handful of word. think 2-5-year-old language skills. definitely fails to understand some basic concepts like shape edges on weapons. likely has a very off view of how the world works. definitely has trouble recognizing entities outside of himself as Truly alive

1 incapable of everything outside of basic instinctual actions.

Low wis

7-9 mostly normal but may fail to read the room. definitely has problems if dealing with a culture and customs outside of their normal wheelhouse. his common scenes might be lacking but not in a detrimental way.

5-6 a partial to complete fails of understanding customs and social interactions. he can still get through a conversation and live a relatively normal life but he is an odd man out. lacking most common sences

2-4 complete failure of social senses. can't read the room to save his life. might be blind or have some other impairment to his sences. lacks the concept of common sense.

1 nearly incapable of having a social sense and is definitely sensory impaired.

Lox Cha

7-9 mostly normal, may have an impairment of some kind of a lack of grasp on social cues not in he doesn't see them or understand them but in the failure to play into or away from them. he recognizes them but lacks the skill to use them.

5-6 just the worst version or 7-9

2-4 he may lack communication skill altogether, might be mute.

1 a failure to understand anything regarding social interactions.

Note: to some extend Cha is tie into appearance and other cultural important social characters so those can also degrade but might not.

[loki_ragnarock]

I play as myself.

[Sigreid]

Not really, I let the dice show it's influence. If I'm honest though, I'm not particularly successful at RPing those stats when they're particularly high either.

[Keravath]

There are several different ways that folks can interpret the stats which then affect how they choose to roleplay it.

Low INT

It could be the character isn't very good at logical reasoning, perhaps they aren't that smart or perhaps cause and effect doesn't really mean much to the character. Alternatively, low INT could be related to a lack of knowledge or education. They may be able to reason effectively but don't have the tools to do so. All of the int based skills are primarily related to things you know with the exception of investigation. However, even investigating something isn't very effective if you lack the knowledge building blocks to effectively figure something out.

So low INT can be intelligence vs knowledge.

Low WIS

Low wisdom can be a lack of perceptiveness. Things that are obvious to others aren't necessarily obvious to you. On the other hand, low wisdom could also be related to acting precipitously or spontaneously, taking actions without thinking about consequences. There are a number of role playing traits that could be reflected in a low wisdom score.

Low CHA

Charisma is force of personality. Low charisma could be someone who is a bit weak willed and easier to influence. It could be a character that is physically less attractive or one with unattractive habits. It could be a character who doesn't express themselves well or who frequently says the wrong thing in conversations.

----

There are also at least two schools of thought regarding stats.

1) Stats have no influence on how you role play the character, they only affect the characters ability to succeed on skill checks, saving throws and other game mechanics. A low INT, just means the characters isn't as good at making specific checks for whatever reason. A player can role play the character however they like - a low INT character could just be a misunderstood genius whose conception of the world doesn't quite match up with reality most of the time.

2) The stat number reflects some fundamental aspect of the character and as a result should affect how the character is role played. Specifics of the role playing are up to the player.

----

In the case of the bard character in the OP example, the bard might not have as much formal education so they are less effective at knowledge checks and perhaps their logical processes are easier to manipulate externally so their saving throw is low but they can apparently reason with the best of them in terms of coming up with plans. In the end, it is all up to how the DM and the other players at the table decide to interpret what the stats mean.

[Pex]

Low IN: When the party needs to plan I don't come up with one but will comment on what others bring up. If the DM calls for a Knowledge check but anyone may roll I never do. Low IN is not an idiot. No matter what, I never let it interfere with combat. I know what my character can do as a member of his class. If a warrior I use combat tactics. If a spellcaster I know not to do friendly fire and use the correct spell.

Low CH: Depends on character personality. He could be shy or aloof. Sometimes I'll speak with blunt truths instead of euphemisms and white lies people use out of courtesy so as not to hurt someone's feelings.

Low WI: I never dump Wisdom so haven't really thought about it.

In any case, I do not care for players who use a dump stat as an excuse to be disruptive - the ones who turn peaceful effective negotiations into hostile combat, the ones who do not follow the party plan to do something that makes the situation worse, the ones who put other party members in harm's way by doing something they shouldn't or not doing something they should and it's obvious which is which and when.

[Gizmogidget]

See INT is an odd stat. And our perceptions around it are kind of muddled. Going by the times 10 rule you get a theoretical IQ of 80. And 80 is below average, but it isn't disabled (after all people graduate from college with mild intellectual disability). Nor does it preclude a character from occasionally making a good decision, as many of those decisions will fall under the purview of Wisdom.

Plotting the 3d6 curve against an IQ percentile chart, we find that INT 8 is about IQ 90, which is within the normal range for IQ. Such a person isn't particularly slow and functions perfectly normally.

And the penalty for an 8 is a mere 1. Or 5%. Game wise the penalty isn't all that extreme, so to me it seems perfectly reasonable that the 8 INT Bard could function perfectly well RP-wise.

[KorvinStarmast]

After kind of realizing that slowly over time our low INT bard has evolved into the one who often comes up with solutions to problems and intricate plans that don't really seem appropriate for an INT 8 Characater I was wondering how you keep the roleplaying of mental stats in line with the actual values of the attributes. Or do you rely mostly on mechanics like skill checks and roleplay the character without shackling yourself to attribute values?
I strongly suggest that you not consider ability scores to be restrictive for role playing. You don't need to be a genius to solve problems or have a good idea. That's as much Wisdom as anything else. The mental/personality traits are kind of soft around the edges and they overlap considerably.
Let the Players play and make inputs.

My experience is: role playing good, roll playing not as good. (Either can be fun)

[Rule-Of-Three]

Plenty of good responses above, I'll keep my personal interpretations brief.

WIS: Fairly straightforward to portray at low scores. It can emerge as a rigidity to change or new information, or naivete and too trusting. If I'm portraying a shonen-style hero barbarian, I might make it a zealous commitment to a challenge and refusal to back down, no matter the opposition. Find a mode that suits your character's narrative.

CHA: I'll point to the average NFL post-game interview as an example of how banal only saying what is expected can be, especially when done in cliché idioms. Diffident presence is a common way of portraying low CHA, but I would advise trying instead being someone who everyone knows what they are going to say before they speak.

INT: The hard one. The game component of TTRPGs makes the ability to collectively problem-solve essential to immersive play, and some players feel that runs counter to good RP. It doesn't have to. People have particular aptitudes with intelligence; not every kid that can solve a rubix cube with speed can do even basic computations with speed.

Find areas that your INT 8 characters storywise feel comfortable. It will not break the simulation. Want to be good at combat tactics? I've known dozen of good field NCOs with a mind for maneuver that can't think their way out of a simple word problem. People just have savant skills sometimes for pattern, spatial relationships, numbers, mechanics and more that don't translate outside that narrow band of competency.

So, define you character, what they are good at, and what they are not. Lean into the bad parts too for RP, and it will validate the shining moments.

[rlc]

I play as myself.
Oh, I was hoping I would be the first person to make that joke.






But, anyway, I wouldn’t really get into HULK SMASH territory until you get down to 5 or 6 Intelligence, since 8 really isn’t that much below 10 on a scale of 1-20.

[KorvinStarmast]

But, anyway, I wouldn’t really get into HULK SMASH territory until you get down to 5 or 6 Intelligence, since 8 really isn’t that much below 10 on a scale of 1-20. It's not on a scale of 1-20. It's on a scale of 3 to 18. :smallwink: (3d6 bell curve not 1d20 flat line curve ...) Which supports your point nicely. :smallsmile: (In other words, you are right for a different reason).

[da newt]

It may be worth pointing out that almost 50% of all people have a below average INT and / or WIS and / or CHA.

We often have an overinflated opinion of our true capabilities.

Think of all of the people you went to highschool with. Roughly half of them were below average in any single category.

IF you are playing a PC with a really LOW stat, then that's something to account for, but for an 8 - that's just a bit below average - that's just not that person's strength. It's not extraordinary in any way.

IRL IQ (a rough proxy for INT) has a normal distribution with a mean of 100 and standard deviation of ~15. So ~ 68% of all people fall between 85 and 115 IQ, and 95% of all people fall between 70 and 130.

[Droppeddead]

It may be worth pointing out that almost 50% of all people have a below average INT and / or WIS and / or CHA.

We often have an overinflated opinion of our true capabilities.

Both of these are very true. And if we go by the normal distribution of 3D6 (I'd say that's for the average population, only heroes get 4D6 drop the lowest) we see that the average ability score is between 9 and 12. Which means that having "just" an 8 for Int doesn't mean that you are a bumbling idiot, and a Charisma of 8 doesn't make you a super awkward creep. You're just slightly below average.


Low int

7-9 normal person how just can do math and can read, still can count but probably doesn't know words like thousand million and higher. probably can sign his name and has a relatively good understanding of langue outside of reading and writing. he has relatively strong diction but probably doesn't know what diction means.

5-6 can't count and can't read at all. diction is probably lacking think grog or Frankenstein. he still has an understandable grasp of language but makes childish errors and lacks an understanding of words outside of a 10-grade reading level. may also not understand basic concepts like fire is dangerous.

2-4 can't count, read or write and struggles with basic language skills. may only know a handful of word. think 2-5-year-old language skills. definitely fails to understand some basic concepts like shape edges on weapons. likely has a very off view of how the world works. definitely has trouble recognizing entities outside of himself as Truly alive

1 incapable of everything outside of basic instinctual actions.

Low wis

7-9 mostly normal but may fail to read the room. definitely has problems if dealing with a culture and customs outside of their normal wheelhouse. his common scenes might be lacking but not in a detrimental way.

5-6 a partial to complete fails of understanding customs and social interactions. he can still get through a conversation and live a relatively normal life but he is an odd man out. lacking most common sences

2-4 complete failure of social senses. can't read the room to save his life. might be blind or have some other impairment to his sences. lacks the concept of common sense.

1 nearly incapable of having a social sense and is definitely sensory impaired.

Lox Cha

7-9 mostly normal, may have an impairment of some kind of a lack of grasp on social cues not in he doesn't see them or understand them but in the failure to play into or away from them. he recognizes them but lacks the skill to use them.

5-6 just the worst version or 7-9

2-4 he may lack communication skill altogether, might be mute.

1 a failure to understand anything regarding social interactions.

Note: to some extend Cha is tie into appearance and other cultural important social characters so those can also degrade but might not.

All of these are greatly exagerated, or at least you've put a too high a value for each step. 7-9 is just slightly below average. It's the dude behind you in class who always fall asleep. That someone wouldn't understand that fire is dangerous with an Int of 6 is also highly exagerated.

Remember, since the lowest you can roll for a score is 3, that is still considered a functional ability for a character to have. You are technically a viable character even if you would have 3s in every stat. You'd probably be something along the lines of Joseph Merrick (commonly known as the elephant man) but having a single 3 in a stat doesn't make you unplayable. For example, I'd say that the Terminator in the first film could easily have a Charisma of 3.

[Asisreo1]

I'll focus on Int for simplicity.

What is intelligence? Its a very broad question but has an answer, at least in D&D.

"Intelligence measures your mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason."

When an intelligence check is called, it "draw[s] on logic, education, memory, and the ability to reason."

A low intelligence could be the lack of the collection of these, or just a bigger lack of one of these. Your character could reason fine and have decent mental acuity if their memory is always cut short. Or st least, that's how you can roleplay it.

Whenever you roll, its no longer just about your skill. Its also about the randomness of luck. A low Int character can easily devise clever plans, follow a lecture, or convince someone purely with reason. The margin of luck in these cases are usually wide but disadvantage or advantage can be offered by the DM within context.

Of course, if you really want a more official stance, take the DMG's explanation of low scores.

Intelligence: Dim-witted, Slow

Wisdom: Oblivious, Absentminded

Charisma: Dull, Boring.

[Amdy_vill]

Both of these are very true. And if we go by the normal distribution of 3D6 (I'd say that's for the average population, only heroes get 4D6 drop the lowest) we see that the average ability score is between 9 and 12. Which means that having "just" an 8 for Int doesn't mean that you are a bumbling idiot, and a Charisma of 8 doesn't make you a super awkward creep. You're just slightly below average.



All of these are greatly exagerated, or at least you've put a too high a value for each step. 7-9 is just slightly below average. It's the dude behind you in class who always fall asleep. That someone wouldn't understand that fire is dangerous with an Int of 6 is also highly exagerated.

Remember, since the lowest you can roll for a score is 3, that is still considered a functional ability for a character to have. You are technically a viable character even if you would have 3s in every stat. You'd probably be something along the lines of Joseph Merrick (commonly known as the elephant man) but having a single 3 in a stat doesn't make you unplayable. For example, I'd say that the Terminator in the first film could easily have a Charisma of 3.

I disagree look at the creatures that have stats in these ranges. that is where I got my bases. also, you got to look at this from an in-context perspective. reading and writing are relatively common in people with 10 int but not universal.

[Bilbron]

Hi everyone!

After kind of realizing that slowly over time our low INT bard has evolved into the one who often comes up with solutions to problems and intricate plans that don't really seem appropriate for an INT 8 Characater I was wondering how you keep the roleplaying of mental stats in line with the actual values of the attributes. Or do you rely mostly on mechanics like skill checks and roleplay the character without shackling yourself to attribute values?

Cheers

WaspI thought about RPing a low Cha character by just being myself, but that was a mistake. Never RP a low charisma in modern D&D, I learned. Just let others do the talking during interactions and that's plenty.

[lall]

I play as myself.
Same. My problem is the opposite, which is taken care of with “My guy is smarter than me. He thinks of something clever.” And that’s usually followed by a roll.

[MaxWilson]

Hi everyone!

After kind of realizing that slowly over time our low INT bard has evolved into the one who often comes up with solutions to problems and intricate plans that don't really seem appropriate for an INT 8 Characater I was wondering how you keep the roleplaying of mental stats in line with the actual values of the attributes. Or do you rely mostly on mechanics like skill checks and roleplay the character without shackling yourself to attribute values?

Cheers

Wasp

If I take low Int/Wis/Cha I definitely roleplay it, which is one reason I'd normally rather dump Wis and be reckless/abrasive/impulsive/have a gambling problem/have issues with self-deception than dump Int and have to figure out how to un-realize things, or simulate un-realizing them.

There's another thread ongoing right now where you can see how I approach playing an Int 7 Wis 4 Cha 9 wizard that I once rolled up on 3d6-in-order. See https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24840988&postcount=2 and the last two paragraphs of https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623813-Tactical-Challenge-A-Few-Minutes-or-An-Eternity-(lvl-6-PCs-survival-vs-boss)&p=24841056#post24841056

[ThatoneGuy84]

Low int - usually struggles with problem solving and gets easily frustrated when unable to figure out complex problems.
Low Wis - usually play this as unobservent and moderatly forgetful.
Low Cha - Socially awkward (this can be rough around the edges, soft spoken or even "speaks before thinking".

All around an 8 isnt crippling bad at things, just below average.

[Tanarii]

Don't make decisions that might result in an Int, Wis or Cha check, as appropriate. Or if you do, do it with the understanding that you're likely to fail if it's challenging.

[Samayu]

Regarding low-INT characters - anyone who does something a lot is going to get pretty good at it. Many monsters are described as being clever at tactics. If these tactics are what gets them food, they've survived long enough to become good at.

You could describe these things as being done by instinct, which puts them in the realm of wisdom.

[complexhouses]

Regarding low-INT characters - anyone who does something a lot is going to get pretty good at it. Many monsters are described as being clever at tactics. If these tactics are what gets them food, they've survived long enough to become good at.

You could describe these things as being done by instinct, which puts them in the realm of wisdom.

So to have a character who struggles to contribute to problem-solving on the adventure, you'd have to take low Int AND Wis. I like that a lot.

I guess I have a habit of avoiding dropping mental stats if I can help it, because I only really have recollection of playing a character with low Int, but high Wis and Cha. I played him as having very little knowledge of the world outside his mundane pre-adventure life, but quick thinking enough to put the pieces together on his own once he had most of them, and confident enough to attempt to apply that knowledge without knowing for sure that it was actually correct.

[Darzil]

I have a tendency if not checked to come up with cunning plans for other players. I role-play low int by making sure not to do so, and only thinking about my own actions. Has the nice side effect of letting other players shine.

[TigerT20]

Just some numbers from the MM to give an idea of Intelligence + Wisdom

An Ape has 6 Int and 12 Wis. Considering they've been known to use tools such as saws, boats and anvils as well as learn sign language and how to use a keyboard (without being raised in an advanced society) 6 Int clearly isn't stupid.

A Cat has 3 Int and 12 Wis. Sure, they have limited object permenance but cats are pretty smart nonetheless. Especially when it comes to deception. (Or would that fall under thier Cha score of 7?)

A Draft Horse has an Int of 2 and a Wis of 11. I don't know too much about horses, but they seem smart enough.

An Elephant has 3 Int and 11 Wis, which actually seems off to me. They're wayy smarter than 3 Int.

A Goat has an Int of 2 and a Wis of 10. This is wrong: goats are smarter then we ever will be.

A Mastiff has 3 Int and 12 Wis. See cat, but less deception and more heroically rescuing people

A Rat has 2 Int and 10 Wis. This is a misconception; 50% of rats are incredibly smart, but always have their plans for world domination foiled by their idiot companions. Narf. (Ok seriously rats are very smart, probably should be like 5 or 6)

A Raven has 2 Int and 12 Wis. They can learn to mimic human speech, occasionally getting the context right.

A Riding Horse has 2 Int and 11 Wis. See Draft Horse.

A Warhorse has 2 Int and 12 Wis. See Draft Horse

A Wolf has 3 Int and 12 Wis. See Mastiff but replace heroically rescuing people with killing elk?

[Poe]

I admit, I’ve only read the first 3-4 responses.
I love the idea of low confidence for low charisma and seeking approval.
One thing I strongly disagree with is the person who said you can only enjoy so many “Hulk smash” sessions. I think that is frequently an issue, but that comes from poor RP and a limited sense of what Intelligence means. If you have seen “The Green Mile”, John Coffey is a perfect example of what a low Int can entail. He may not have much knowledge of the world, but he is about as far from the “Hulk smash” idea as you can get.

[Azuresun]

One thing that can be worth considering, especially with low Intelligence or Charisma is--what does the character think their score is?

[Hael]

This seems weird and against what the books tell us about what abilities are. Just because you have an stat below 10 (remember, the average for abilities should be between 9 and 12 if you go by rolling 3D6, which gives us a good average for a normal population) doesn't mean that you are completely worthless.

Abilities aren't just pure genetics but also how well you have honed those abilities. A low intelligence doesn't have to mean that you are stupid, it could just be that you haven't had much or any academical training. A low strength score could mean that you don't have the proper technique to lift heavy things, and so on. Equating an intelligence of 8 with "Hulk smash" is just exaggerated and, if we go by the books, frankly wrong.

I hope it was of some help.

Ad&d had a more quantitative measure of stats, which made things much easier (it was tied after all to being able to read books and scrolls). In recent editions they've gotten away from that, and have been purposefully vague about what they mean exactly. But yes, you can roughly think of it as a normal distribution between 9-11, or roughly speaking what typical IQ is like (this maps one to one if you multiply by 10). The original creators very much had this perspective when they created DnD, and it underlines the entire system to this day (like you can see with the monster stat blocks).

An IQ of 80 is the lowest IQ that they will let in the US military btw. Such an individual can read, but its quite difficult to function as a soldier. Reaction times will be slow, it will be extremely rare to make it far in the chain of command etc. An iq of 75 is about the highest you will find where someone can maintain a profession.

You don't have to play a low int character as Hulk smash, but then you can't go into combat masterfully positioning yourself, anticipating movement patterns all the while calling out perfect playcalls to your companions. It makes no sense for int 8 to do that.

The not booksmart/trained in warfare but nevertheless clever individual who can make calls like that, is more int 10, hence the reason we boost the stat to that value.

Likewise, you can't claim that dex 4/str 4 is not functionally disabled. If you swing a club, you fall prone. It's just not something you want to play with as a DM.

[Tanarii]

IMO an ability score only becomes relevant when a check is called for. Up until that point, anyone can do the thing and succeed, or do the thing and fail. If the ability score is relevant, it needs to be mechanically involved.

And that's important because it doesn't remove player skill or decision making (aka roleplaying) from the game. Ability scores affect roleplaying by modifying the player's willingness to make certain decisions for their character, in terms of if they are willing to risk an ability check or use a feature that involves an ability score.

Or possibly just blunder into things they are bad at. I can't count the number of times I've had a player of a party "face" with high charisma start a negotiation, only to have the low Cha peanut gallery chime in because they can't help themselves. Converting it from a relatively easily check at +6 to a group check with a bunch of PCs rolling at -1. :smallamused:

[Droppeddead]

I disagree look at the creatures that have stats in these ranges. that is where I got my bases. also, you got to look at this from an in-context perspective. reading and writing are relatively common in people with 10 int but not universal.

Creatures aren't people. The idea that you would need an Int of 10 to be able to read is ludicrous.

As Unoriginal pointed out:

"Low-INT doesn't even prevent having useful knowledge or moments of cleverness, either. To use two examples: the INT 5 Ogres are bilingual, and one of the NPCs in a published module is an INT 7 man who nevertheless is fully literate and whose current level of riches is entirely due to him successfully identifying and blackmailing a wealthy person he found in a compromising situation. He never gets in troubles for doing that"


Again, you statements has no basis in the actual rules of the game.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

See INT is an odd stat. And our perceptions around it are kind of muddled. Going by the times 10 rule you get a theoretical IQ of 80. And 80 is below average, but it isn't disabled (after all people graduate from college with mild intellectual disability). Nor does it preclude a character from occasionally making a good decision, as many of those decisions will fall under the purview of Wisdom.

Plotting the 3d6 curve against an IQ percentile chart, we find that INT 8 is about IQ 90, which is within the normal range for IQ. Such a person isn't particularly slow and functions perfectly normally.

And the penalty for an 8 is a mere 1. Or 5%. Game wise the penalty isn't all that extreme, so to me it seems perfectly reasonable that the 8 INT Bard could function perfectly well RP-wise.

You make a good statistical point here. It provides a good reason for my Int 8, Wis 10 Dwarven barbarian to continue to contribute meaningfully to strategy and puzzles. And perhaps with an 8 Chr I can continue playing him as crass and belligerent, but not quite as much as I have been.

[Ogre Mage]

Off topic, but one combination of mental stats I had trouble playing was high wisdom (16-18), above average charisma (12-13) and low intelligence (8). Several of my clerical characters have fit this profile and I always felt unsure how to approach it. Some suggested Forrest Gump but for some clerics that seems ... odd.

[Droppeddead]

Off topic, but one combination of mental stats I had trouble playing was high wisdom (16-18), above average charisma (12-13) and low intelligence (8). Several of my clerical characters have fit this profile and I always felt unsure how to approach it. Some suggested Forrest Gump but for some clerics that seems ... odd.

Again, an Int of 8 (say that fast three times :P ) is just slightly below average. So with those stats it could be a friendly person who has good advice but perhaps keeps messing up phrases and sayings (like Pumba's "You got to put your behind in your past.") or it could be the charismatic wilderness expert who knows how to do a lot of things but doesn't really know how exactly it works (Crocodile Dundee, perhaps?).

Forrest Gump would have a Int of 6 or perhaps 7. Not the sharpest tool in the shed but he can at least read and write.

As for a cleric with those stats? I'd say that it could be a very insightful and compassionate monk or preacher who hasn't had much formal education (or just have a hard time remembering their Scripture) so when they preach they come of more as Bluto from Animal House than as an academial scholar.

[Darzil]

High wis low int could be played differently by situation. In familiar circumstances they could be very confident and effective, in unfamiliar ones uncertain and overwhelmed.

[Tanarii]

Off topic, but one combination of mental stats I had trouble playing was high wisdom (16-18), above average charisma (12-13) and low intelligence (8). Several of my clerical characters have fit this profile and I always felt unsure how to approach it. Some suggested Forrest Gump but for some clerics that seems ... odd.Someone who struggles a little with math, but oh boy do they read body language and pay attention to the world around them.

As represented by -1 on Int checks and +3 to +4 on Wisdom checks.

It's important to remember that Wisdom (the stat) is about awareness of the world around you. Not wisdom (the real world word).

[Morty]

IMO an ability score only becomes relevant when a check is called for. Up until that point, anyone can do the thing and succeed, or do the thing and fail. If the ability score is relevant, it needs to be mechanically involved.

And that's important because it doesn't remove player skill or decision making (aka roleplaying) from the game. Ability scores affect roleplaying by modifying the player's willingness to make certain decisions for their character, in terms of if they are willing to risk an ability check or use a feature that involves an ability score.

Or possibly just blunder into things they are bad at. I can't count the number of times I've had a player of a party "face" with high charisma start a negotiation, only to have the low Cha peanut gallery chime in because they can't help themselves. Converting it from a relatively easily check at +6 to a group check with a bunch of PCs rolling at -1. :smallamused:

That's more or less my approach. If my character has a low attribute, it means they're disadvantaged in checks that involve it. That will obviously inform my roleplaying to some degree, since they will act as people who aren't good at it. But beyond that, I see no particular reason to determine my character's personality according to their attributes. Besides, Intelligence and Charisma are mechanical abstractions - there's no such thing as a single "intelligence" or "charisma" trait in real life. And Wisdom just doesn't really mean anything.

[blackjack50]

With Charisma or Intelligence...I like to role play a limited grasp of the common language. It explains why I may not be good at math or books and stuff. I just don’t have a formal education. OR with charisma...people just don’t understand me. It works better for the monosyllabic arc types.

[Sigreid]

Recently I watched a YouTube video where they asked the question of what it's like having a below average IQ. Most of the responses were along the lines of most people don't really notice, but it' takes frustratingly longer to get things. They can get them, it just takes longer and they have to work harder to do it.

[Bobthewizard]

I don't think INT represents IQ divided by 10. The bell curve is much shallower on the first than the second. Normal human IQ is not a bell curve of 3d6X10. A 3d6 bell curve would likely closely fit IQ from 90-120, maybe 85-125, with long, very low tails extending below 85 or above 125.

If you look at what a 6 INT does for you, you have a minus 10% on Intelligence ability checks. If the average DC is 10, you go from 50% success to 40% success. A 6 INT character is still going to pass a lot of INT checks, even ones that the 20INT character fails. Take proficiency in one of the skills and at high levels you are better than a character with a 20 INT.

In real life, someone with a 60 IQ has trouble with activities of daily living, and likely needs someone to support them.

I play a 6 INT character as if they had an IQ around 90. I little slower than most but still normal. I will also sometimes play them as just uneducated, taking investigation as a skill to represent their normal IQ but lack of knowledge.

[blackjack50]

https://youtu.be/1retvmzRVn0

Above is a great example as well.

[Paksos]

I have an Eldritch Knight with Int 14 and Wis 8 who I role play as a smart guy but an eternal optimist. He isn’t great at reading people and believes everyone is good until proven otherwise so will invite random people to join their campfire while he’s on watch etc.

[DwarfFighter]

Hi everyone!

After kind of realizing that slowly over time our low INT bard has evolved into the one who often comes up with solutions to problems and intricate plans that don't really seem appropriate for an INT 8 Characater I was wondering how you keep the roleplaying of mental stats in line with the actual values of the attributes. Or do you rely mostly on mechanics like skill checks and roleplay the character without shackling yourself to attribute values?

Cheers

Wasp

If you are the GM, you can always declare that the Bard in question is meta-gaming (if the player is exceeding his character's limitations) and disallow his suggestions. In a sense, he is looking behind a door his character cannot open. I don't think that's a good way of doing things though.

It seems to me that the Bard here is solving problems that don't come with a fixed DC for an Int check, or a minimum Int value, in which case the problem is supposed to be solved creatively, and actual Int doesn't really matter. If the other players with higher Int characters were unable to come up with a good solution that is kinda on them, not the Bard, right? If the Int 20 Wizard's player is unable to solve a riddle isn't that too a point of weirdness?

The way I see it, either you start to actively apply some sort of Int mechanic to solving puzzles that makes the relative Ability scores of the party members relevant, or you drop the matter.

For example: Whenever the party is in a situation where they start guessing at whatever to do next you ask for a DC 20 Int check. If more than half of the party makes the check you give them one possible solution that is guaranteed to progress the plot. The players can also come up with alternative ideas regardless of what they rolled. The only purpose of this is to make the PC's Int stat in some way relevant.

-DF

[Morty]

Got to say, "Intelligence is IQ divided by 10" is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in the context of a tabletop game. And it would be one even if IQ scores were actually useful.

[LudicSavant]

Got to say, "Intelligence is IQ divided by 10" is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard in the context of a tabletop game. And it would be one even if IQ scores were actually useful.

More or less my thoughts on the matter, TBH.