Interactions: See Invisibility, Magical Darkness, and Ethereal Creatures?

[Caligstro Smith]

I'm wondering about how these three elements interact.

I have a character who carries around an item with Deeper Darkness cast on it all the time, but shutters it away usually. He can also turn ethereal at will.

Suppose an enemy observer on the material plane with See Invisibility but WITHOUT Deeper Darkvision (see in magical darkness) is observing my character.
There is a second enemy observer, which is an ethereal creature, without any special vision enhancements.


If my character:
1) Unshutters the Deeper Darkness marble, the magical darkness "radiates" out from it now, obscuring the material enemy observer's views of my character.

1.a?) Does this obscure the ethereal observer's view of my character? (Ethereal description only explicitly calls out force effects, gaze effects, and abjurations extending onto the material plane, and Deeper Darkness is none of those. However, it says they see and hear into the material plane, and Deeper Darkness is a visual effect? And presumably the reason gaze effects work are because they are similarly visual/visually transmitted effects?)

1.b?) IF the magical darkness DOES still obscure the ethereal observer's vision, then does that mean that Illusions also may be seen or heard on the etheral plane?


1.c?) Follow-up: Should auditory effects transmit in the same way? Likewise, if it does NOT, does that mean that illusions/auditory effects on the material plane are invisible/inaudible to ethereal creatures?


2) Then my character becomes ethereal, taking all his gear (including the Deeper Darkness Marble) with him. The deeper darkvision spell effect is taken to the ethereal plane.

2.a?) Which enemies can see him? I believe RAW the material+See Invisibility observer CAN see him now, because See Invisibility reveals ethereal creatures, but magical darkness/spell effects in general don't pass from the ethereal to the material? And the ethereal enemy still CANNOT see my character, because on the ethereal plane that enemy WILL still be subject to the magical darkness effect?

2.b?) Assuming that interaction is correct, is it just me, or does that seem sort-of weird? If not, how do they actually interact?


I realize that if it DIDN'T work like that, it would be possible to have invisible magical darkness that only affected people who could see the invisible, using this interaction. (Though that's possible to achieve with Invisible Spell anyway so it's not like it'd be unique if that did work).

[Necroticplague]

Minor point: Deeper Darkness only offers concealment (20%), not full concealment (50%). You're hard to see, not impossible to see.

With that in mind:

1a)Yes. The magic of a darkness spell is only on the object it's cast on. The dark area around it isn't magical itself (you can't dispel the darkness itself, only the fact the object radiates it). The ethereal is just as subject to darkness and brightness.
b)Yes. Within the 60 foot limitation on lines of sight, they see the illusions.
c)Define 'Auditory effects'. Within the 60 foot limitation (MoP, 55), hearing on the ethereal is as it is on the material. However, the magic of such effects (like sonic attacks) does not cross.

2a)see minor point, but your assessment is otherwise correct. The darkness they can't see is stuck on the ethereal, while they can see you perfectly well.
2b)what's weird about it? It's magic and parallel realities, there's no reason to presume any of our personal working knowledge of the world can apply.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I realize that if it DIDN'T work like that, it would be possible to have invisible magical darkness that only affected people who could see the invisible, using this interaction. (Though that's possible to achieve with Invisible Spell anyway so it's not like it'd be unique if that did work).

Necroticplague already answered your main questions and i mostly agree with him, but i disagree with this.

According to the rules for invisibility:

An invisible burning torch still gives off light, as does an invisible object with a light spell (or similar spell) cast upon it.
I'd classify darkness as a similar spell, so no you can't have invisible darkness either way.

Invisible Spell does a lot of things depending on how lenient your interpretation is but it definitely doesn't hide light sources.
The only wiggle room here is if darkness spells are similar enough to light spells, and since they're about the only kind of spell that's even remotely similar i'd say they are.


1a)Yes. The magic of a darkness spell is only on the object it's cast on. The dark area around it isn't magical itself (you can't dispel the darkness itself, only the fact the object radiates it). The ethereal is just as subject to darkness and brightness.

The rules explicitly make a distinction between magical and non-magical darkness, so by definition the darkness it creates has to be magical.
Also spell effects are legitimate targets for Dispel Magic, as long as you can perceive them. The only limitation is that for an area dispel the point of origin has to be within the dispel spells area.

[Necroticplague]

The rules explicitly make a distinction between magical and non-magical darkness, so by definition the darkness it creates has to be magical.
Also spell effects are legitimate targets for Dispel Magic, as long as you can perceive them. The only limitation is that for an area dispel the point of origin has to be within the dispel spells area.

Ah, sorry, I perhaps worded that a bit poorly, in attempting to KISS. The darkness is magical, but it's not the spell's effect. In fact, Darkness doesn't have an effect; it has a target. Contrast with say, wall of stone, where the result isn't magical, but it is a spell effect.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Ah, sorry, I perhaps worded that a bit poorly, in attempting to KISS. The darkness is magical, but it's not the spell's effect. In fact, Darkness doesn't have an effect; it has a target. Contrast with say, wall of stone, where the result isn't magical, but it is a spell effect.

Yes, i see what you mean. You're right. Somehow i had the idea that Darkness was an area emanation spell.