Multiclass Warlock/Sorcerer spells know question.

[Rafaelfras]

Hello dear forumites. As a very long time lurker here in these forums, using it as a reliable source of info on D&D in general 5th ed in specific for the first time a question arose in my table, whose the answer I did not posses nor could I find, here or elsewhere.

One of my players is a Warlock 12 and now dipped his 1st level as a divine soul sorcerer, and took holy weapon as one of his spells know

The rules for multiclass state :
"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when
you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook. Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one o f your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability o f that class when you cast the spell. Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus."

So I argued he couldn't do that, since holy weapon is a 4th level spell and as a level 1 sorcerer he could just take 1st level spells from the sorcerer or cleric spell list. BUT there is this section on pact magic :

"If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know."

And

"Once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the rules below. If you multiclass but have the Spellcasting feature from only one class, you follow the rules as described in that class."
Warlocks dont have the spellcasting feature, only pact magic

Finlay the sorcerer spells know say:

"The Spells Known column of the Sorcerer table shows when you learn more sorcerer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level"

So he argues that since he has 5 th level slots, and only one class with spellcasting he can pick holy weapon since he has spell slots for it.

So thats it. I am very torn on this issue, leaning more on the side that he couldn't do it but since I dint found any definitive answer I allowed him to take it ( I am a permissive DM ><) but the question remains.
As I already let said player take the spell i will not take it back, but i really want to know how the rules handle this, even if its just to avoid problems in the future.

TL:DR Can Warlock12/DS Sorcerer1 can take holy weapon as a spell know ?

Please Playground, Help me

Sorry for the wall of text

[Keravath]

No. :)

You answered it yourself.

Spells KNOWN are prepared as IF you were a single classed character of that class. In this case, they have the spells KNOWN of a level 12 warlock and a level 1 sorcerer.

They can use the spell slots from Pact Magic to cast their warlock or sorcerer spells and the spell slots from Spellcasting (sorcerer) to cast their warlock or sorcerer spells. Since they only have Spellcasting from one class and Pact Magic from one class there is no use of the multiclassing spells table.

The rules are very explicit:

"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Having 5th level warlock spell slots has NO influence on what sorcerer spells they can choose as a first level sorcerer.

The rules under the sorcerer class that he is citing to justify the choice are for a single classed sorcerer. If you are multiclassing then you use the rules in the multiclassing section which are VERY explicit in the sentence above regarding spell selection being made for each class individually as if you were a single classed member of that class.

Does a single classed first level sorcerer have 5th level spell slots? No - then they can't choose 5th level spells. What spell slots does a single classed member of that class have? Level 1. So the character is limited to choosing level 1 sorcerer spells since that is all that a level 1 could choose.

They DO have the option of upcasting those spells using their pact magic slots BUT their spell choices are limited to those available to a single classed sorcerer.

[Rafaelfras]

No. :)



The rules are very explicit:

"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."



If both classes have the spellcasting feature. Warlocks dont have the spellcasting feature, they have pact magic.

(also i agree with you, i am just stating the argument i know he will use)

[bid]

If both classes have the spellcasting feature. Warlocks dont have the spellcasting feature, they have pact magic.

(also i agree with you, i am just stating the argument i know he will use)
It doesn't matter.
Every class is handled separately, as if you only had the levels of that class. This applies to every feature no matter the class, unless explicitely overruled by the MC section.
So a wizard 1 / cleric 16 has all the features of a wizard 1 and all the features of a cleric 16. You don't get to merge them.

Ask your player if a wizard 1 / cleric 16 can learn wish. And then just say you won't allow it.

[Rafaelfras]

He will answer that sinse both cleric and wizard have the spellcasting fearure you have to apply the rules described in the MC section. The sorcerer class states that "Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots"

[Valmark]

I'd like to point out that even if your player was right he still wouldn't be able to prep Holy Weapon because he doesn't have 4th level slots.

Anyway, one gets Spellcasting, the other gets Pact Magic. The text tells you how they interact with each other- by sharing slots. And that's all the interaction there is.

If he insists just say "No, this is my ruling".
Or something along those lines.

[Mr Adventurer]

He will answer that sinse both cleric and wizard have the spellcasting fearure you have to apply the rules described in the MC section. The sorcerer class states that "Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots"

That line is part of the Spellcasting class feature, so it is talking about spells known for Spellcasting, and there's no reason for that class feature to interact with the Pact Magic class feature except as outlined in the multiclassing rules.

[Bobthewizard]

No. It's absurd and not even close.

"You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

All his other attempts to twist things ignore the above statement. He does not have 5th level sorcerer spell slots that would let him prepare Holy Weapon from the sorcerer spell list. He has 5th level warlock spell slots that he can use to cast sorcerer spells. The spell slots are not interchangeable for class abilities, they can just be used to cast spells of the other class.

"If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you can use the spell slots you gain from the Pact Magic feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the Spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know."

Single class abilities were not written with multiclassing in mind, so unless it is explicitly permitted in the multiclassing rules, class abilities refer to that class only.

[Rafaelfras]

I'd like to point out that even if your player was right he still wouldn't be able to prep Holy Weapon because he doesn't have 4th level slots.


I came tô this same conclusion yesterday, with that I was able tô point out the abusrd of his arguments
Thank you so much guys, I am keeping this for Future reference

[Silpharon]

I came tô this same conclusion yesterday, with that I was able tô point out the abusrd of his arguments
Thank you so much guys, I am keeping this for Future reference

Actually, multiclass rules allow using pact magic slots for spells from Sorcerer, and vice versa. You're still correct though that he can only prepare 1st level Sorcerer (or in this case Cleric) spells. Silver lining - grab Shield, Bless, and Absorb Elements. Huzzah!