Fey Touched Feat -- Hex or Bless

[Lord_Dots]

The feat would be picked up by an Eldritch Knight. Curious what people would pick between the two.

[JNAProductions]

Hex increases your damage, and will occasionally be useful in inflicting Disadvantage on a certain ability check.
Bless increases three people's hit rates, as well as their saves.

I'd lean towards Bless, since teamwork is good, and saves can get NASTY. You shouldn't have an issue dealing damage, generally, so Bless gives you utility outside your standard niche.

[Lord_Dots]

Hex increases your damage, and will occasionally be useful in inflicting Disadvantage on a certain ability check.
Bless increases three people's hit rates, as well as their saves.

I'd lean towards Bless, since teamwork is good, and saves can get NASTY. You shouldn't have an issue dealing damage, generally, so Bless gives you utility outside your standard niche.

Thanks for your response! The biggest thing that makes me hesitant towards Bless is the fact that it costs an action while Hex is a bonus action (and as a longbow archer I don't have much happening with my bonus action currently). But your point about saves can make that loss worth it depending on the enemy.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Go Bless and never go back. If you have any sort of alpha striker in your party (GWM, Smite, Sneak Attack, etc), +1d4 is always better.

I would priorize Hex if you were going to TWF/PAM route, but then your bonus action starts getting convoluted.

[da newt]

HEX has a 1 hr duration (more if upcast), adds 1d6 to every hit you land, and can give DISADV to an ability (ST seems to be most useful for grapples etc), and costs only a BA to cast.

BLESS adds a d4 to every attack roll and save by the 3 PC's it is cast on (more people if upcast), costs an action to cast, and has a duration of 1 minute.

BLESS is the more selfless / party enhancing option - HEX is more selfish but can cover more than one encounter and doesn't cost an action.

For an EK, you can always action surge to cast bless and still attack on the same round.

In my opinion you can't go wrong with either, but BLESS will make your party happier (especially on saves and for SS/GWM).

[Lord_Dots]

HEX has a 1 hr duration (more if upcast), adds 1d6 to every hit you land, and can give DISADV to an ability (ST seems to be most useful for grapples etc), and costs only a BA to cast.

BLESS adds a d4 to every attack roll and save by the 3 PC's it is cast on (more people if upcast), costs an action to cast, and has a duration of 1 minute.

BLESS is the more selfless / party enhancing option - HEX is more selfish but can cover more than one encounter and doesn't cost an action.

For an EK, you can always action surge to cast bless and still attack on the same round.

In my opinion you can't go wrong with either, but BLESS will make your party happier (especially on saves and for SS/GWM).

Thanks! Your breakdown helps show to pros and cons of both options. I guess I can always base the decision on my character's personality and call it that.

[BoxANT]

why not both? (magic initiate)

however, in an either or situation

hex if you are going sword & board
because you need the damage bump

bless if you are going to use a -5/+10 feat

[Asmerv]

I think in almost every case, Bless will add more damage total than Hex if you include the other party members, plus it protects itself via boosting Con saves and helps with saving throws, which is a very potent effect as you get to higher levels.

Now, while I don't think 1hr vs 1min is that important (neither will survive a combat + short rest), Hex from a 3rd level slot has the potential to last all day. It's a good way of getting full mileage out of your 3rd level slot if you can hold concentration.

Overall, I think Bless is better.

[Lord_Dots]

why not both? (magic initiate)

however, in an either or situation

hex if you are going sword & board
because you need the damage bump

bless if you are going to use a -5/+10 feat

Fair point -- one would just have to be a bit further down the line. Could also depend on what other party members might do as the campaign goes on. In a perfect world, the artificer would be the one to pick up bless as they have a better Con save than I do (and they want to be playing a support/healing role anyways).

[Lord_Dots]

I think in almost every case, Bless will add more damage total than Hex if you include the other party members, plus it protects itself via boosting Con saves and helps with saving throws, which is a very potent effect as you get to higher levels.

Now, while I don't think 1hr vs 1min is that important (neither will survive a combat + short rest), Hex from a 3rd level slot has the potential to last all day. It's a good way of getting full mileage out of your 3rd level slot if you can hold concentration.

Overall, I think Bless is better.

Your point about Bless boosting Con saves to help with the concentration is a good one! Kinda forgot that Bless helps your keep concentration on Bless lol.

[JackPhoenix]

It also depends on party composition. If your group has other casters who can provide Bless, or spellcasters who rely more on saves than attack rolls, you won't get as much use out of it, though saves are always good. As a fighter, you'll also have more attacks than most other characters, which synergizes nicely with Hex.

[Lord_Dots]

It also depends on party composition. If your group has other casters who can provide Bless, or spellcasters who rely more on saves than attack rolls, you won't get as much use out of it, though saves are always good. As a fighter, you'll also have more attacks than most other characters, which synergizes nicely with Hex.

Besides me there is an Artificer, Barbarian, and a Warlock. Depending on how story goes, the warlock could eventually MC into Paladin. . but we will see. I might also end up dipping into War Wizard. . but again -- we will see.

May discuss with DM about bringing in a healer sidekick as well.

[RogueJK]

Bless in almost every case, not only for you but also for your party.

There may be some builds where Hex might be worth considering, such as something with a high number of attacks but relatively low damage on each one. For example, if your Eldritch Knight was using a Hand Crossbow with Crossbow Expert but without the Sharpshooter feat, or something like Two Weapon Fighting, or Polearm Master with 1H Spear+Shield, or similar.

(And then only when fighting one major enemy, otherwise you'd be running into Bonus Action clog by having to repeatedly forego your BA XBE/TWF/PAM attacks to move your Hex to new targets if fighting a bunch of mooks.)

[Lord_Dots]

Bless in almost every case, not only for you but also for your party.

There may be some builds where Hex might be worth considering, such as something with a high number of attacks but relatively low damage on each one. For example, if your Eldritch Knight was using a Hand Crossbow with Crossbow Expert but without the Sharpshooter feat, or something like Two Weapon Fighting, or Polearm Master with 1H Spear+Shield, or similar.

(And then only when fighting one major enemy, otherwise you'd be running into Bonus Action clog by having to repeatedly forego your BA XBE/TWF/PAM attacks to move your Hex to new targets if fighting a bunch of mooks.)

Seems like Bless is currently the winner. I'm a longbow user so none of those builds would apply to my Eldritch Knight.

I was originally planning on picking Hex and even worked with my DM to reflavor the spell in order to make it more fitting for my character. Gave it a new dope name and everything. But then I read about Bless being another good option with the feat and well. . . here I am.

[RogueJK]

Yeah, definitely Bless then. With the Sharpshooter feat (which you should get if you haven't already), you'll appreciate Bless even more. The attack bonus from Bless combines with the Archery fighting style to effectively negate the -5 attack penalty from Sharpshooter, giving you a good shot at landing more of those nasty Sharpshooter Longbow hits for 1d8+10+DEXMOD damage.

You can reflavor Bless too if you want. It doesn't have to be a "blessing from the gods" or whatever. It can be "Tasha's Ward of Precision", an arcane spell you picked up along the way that sharpens the senses of you and two of your allies, allowing you all to be more precise with your strikes and to more easily notice and avoid incoming spells and effects.

[MrStabby]

I would go with hex.

When things are going well you dont really need to use your resources. Sometimes you really need to change tack and go to town when reinforcements arrive, an ally goes down to a lucky crit or whatever.

Bless mid fight just costs too much when your party needs to pull out damage. Hex let's you react to changes with just the bonus action.

You just dont have the resources to be buff all the time so need to pick your moments. This would be entirely reversed on a full caster.

A niche use, but hex also helps against counterspell somewhat (and grapples).

[RogueJK]

Sometimes you really need to change tack and go to town when reinforcements arrive, an ally goes down to a lucky crit or whatever.

Bless mid fight just costs too much when your party needs to pull out damage.

If by "costs too much" you mean that it uses up your Action to cast, that's less of an issue on a Fighter like the OP's Eldritch Knight. They can Action Surge if needed, for times when they want to both cast Bless and still get their full action (and a bonus action) that round.

And Bless is going to be specifically better for "pulling out damage" for his Longbow Eldritch Knight anyway, when combined with the Sharpshooter feat, with the +10 damage increase from Sharpshooter (with Bless+Archery offsetting the -5 to attack) significantly outweighing the +1d6 damage increase from Hex. Tripling it, on average, in fact.

Plus, it also makes two other party members better at "pulling out damage" (by landing more attacks) at the same time, and also makes them better at all their saves to boot... Whereas Hex only boosts the caster, and only their damage.

[MrStabby]

If by "costs too much" you mean that it uses up your Action to cast, that's less of an issue on a Fighter like the OP's Eldritch Knight. They can Action Surge if needed, for times when they want to both cast Bless and still get their full action (and a bonus action) that round.

And Bless is going to be specifically better for "pulling out damage" for his Longbow Eldritch Knight anyway, when combined with the Sharpshooter feat, with the +10 damage increase from Sharpshooter (with Bless+Archery offsetting the -5 to attack) significantly outweighing the +1d6 damage increase from Hex. Tripling it, on average, in fact.

Plus, it also makes two other party members better at "pulling out damage" (by landing more attacks) at the same time, and also makes them better at all their saves to boot... Whereas Hex only boosts the caster, and only their damage.

Having action surge doesn't mean it costs lessthan an action to cast. Whether you would have two actions or three left before the end of the combat, costing one of them is still costing an action.

Now bless is a great defensive spell, but ignoring that for the moment we can work through what is needed to break even.

Lets look at some middle levels, say level 8 or so. Lets assume a balanced party of two casters and two warrior types.

Now damage certainly isn't the only metric but we are on the topic so it will do for now for a crude comparison.

At level 8 assume something like a PAM build for another party member and maxed attack stats (fighter, so not unlikely if you can start with a 16). Bless costs a loss of damage of 2*(d10+5)=21 expected value. On that same turn hex would cost -2d6=-7 expected value. Lets assume a 65% hit rate so expected deficit 23.075 damage. So basically you are needing to recoup 23 extra damage from bless before the end of the combat to make even on a trade between the two (again, emphasising looking at offensive numbers).

We can throw sharpshooter in as well. The missed action then costs 2*(d10+15)*0.40=16.4, however the opportunity cost is still the better of the other choices that could have been made.

At level 8 assume something like a PAM build for another party member and maxed attack stats. Bless costs a loss of damage of 2*(d10+5)+(d4+5)=28.5 expected value. On that same turn hex would cost -2d6=-7 expected value. Lets assume a 65% hit rate so expected deficit 23.075 damage. So basically you are needing to recoup 23 extra damage from bless before the end of the combat to make even on a trade between the two (again, emphasising looking at offensive numbers).

So assume bless sits on the EK and another similar character (EK seems reasonably representative for what a warrior character can do) then you have a (0.05*1)+(0.05*3/4)+(0.05*1/2)+(0.05*1/4)=0.05*2.5=0.125 - this is the probability of bless causing an extra attack to land. Assume 2 attacks per round and a bonus action attack this will be (using same damage as before) 28.5*0.125 = 3.5625 damage per round from the other warrior. Lets add in a third character throwing cantrips and make it an attack cantrip like firebolt for 2d10*0.125=1.375 extra DPR for a total of 4.9375. Adding in the OP's character for another 2*(d10+5)*0.125 = 2.625 gives 7.56. If we add in sharpshooter then damage becomes 2*(d10+15)*0.125=5.125 instead for a total DPR gain of 10.06.

Hex will be doing (in subsequent rounds) 2d6*0.65 = 7*0.65=4.55 extra damage (still assuming a 65% hit rate), so bless is gaining on Hex by 8.5-4.55=4.45DPR. I.e. you need 5.19 rounds to make up the deficit of the lost attack action.

So this analysis is a bit simplistic and skips critical hits (which will boost hex), and you can quibble with the 65% hit rate - lower hit rates obviously help bless a little, higher hit rates or a source of advantage help hex. Assuming a party of two two warriors and two casters seemed a good neutral position - more casters and hex looks better, if you have 3 warrirors bless looks better. It's an indicative calculation and the result is big enough that I think my point stands.

Don't get me wrong, bless is a great spell and it has it's place, and having elided overits defensive benefits I think it worth noting that during his time your party might also be subjected to saves, so it isn't as simple as Hex is flat our better than Bless - but a judgement call that it takes too long to recoup the lost damage.

[Silpharon]

Don't get me wrong, bless is a great spell and it has it's place, and having elided overits defensive benefits I think it worth noting that during his time your party might also be subjected to saves, so it isn't as simple as Hex is flat our better than Bless - but a judgement call that it takes too long to recoup the lost damage.

Gotta love some analysis. Shouldn't you also throw in the damage not received by the enemies because you had bless to bolster your saving throws? A fireball and a Frostbite cantrip per round perhaps?

Hmm... If you have an artificer, have him make a bless Spellwrought Tattoo infusion every morning. Then, assuming you have Find Familiar (if you don't just have the artificer make you a tattoo with it), put the bless tattoo on your familiar. When you start the boss fight of the day, let the familiar cast bless on the attackers, hold the concentration, and fly away. Then you cast Hex as a bonus action and go to town.

If you don't have an artificer, it only takes two levels. ;)

[Blood of Gaea]

Of the two I definitely prefer Bless for use as a force multiplier I don't think a little damage from hex is going to out-weight better accuracy and saves for several people Bless does cost an action, but hey, you're a Fighter, use Action Surge.

That said, I personally really like grabbing Gift of Alacrity.

[Kane0]

Besides me there is an Artificer, Barbarian, and a Warlock. Depending on how story goes, the warlock could eventually MC into Paladin. . but we will see. I might also end up dipping into War Wizard. . but again -- we will see.


Bless!

10Char

[Jamesps]

On paper bless is awesome and should always be taken.

In the real world, most people forget their bless bonus and if you want to use it you better be prepared to watch other people's rolls like a hawk. It's just never worth the stress for me. Other player's absentmindedness breaks most support abilities.

[ff7hero]

On paper bless is awesome and should always be taken.

In the real world, most people forget their bless bonus and if you want to use it you better be prepared to watch other people's rolls like a hawk. It's just never worth the stress for me. Other player's absentmindedness breaks most support abilities.

As a support player, this is totally true. I enjoy having something to keep me engaged on other players' turns, but I do sometimes worry about how much I interject. I try to only point out my buffs when they're relevant. With Bless that's near misses on attacks/saves. This can also help with feeling stressed with tracking it. Your party members' near miss attacks should be paid attention to already to have an idea for AC, and anyone failing a save should be at least noted.

Something like Haste or Polymorph though? Yeah, get ready to remind them every turn.

[stoutstien]

Gotta love some analysis. Shouldn't you also throw in the damage not received by the enemies because you had bless to bolster your saving throws? A fireball and a Frostbite cantrip per round perhaps?

Hmm... If you have an artificer, have him make a bless Spellwrought Tattoo infusion every morning. Then, assuming you have Find Familiar (if you don't just have the artificer make you a tattoo with it), put the bless tattoo on your familiar. When you start the boss fight of the day, let the familiar cast bless on the attackers, hold the concentration, and fly away. Then you cast Hex as a bonus action and go to town.

If you don't have an artificer, it only takes two levels. ;)

Familiars cannot use the spellwrought tattoo. Can't speak the command word and it's very specific that the user must apply it to themselves.

[Lord_Dots]

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone. I'm soaking it all in to help influence my decision. Everything might be made easier, though, by the artificer wanting to get access to bless himself -- it'll just be a little later down the line.



On paper bless is awesome and should always be taken.

In the real world, most people forget their bless bonus and if you want to use it you better be prepared to watch other people's rolls like a hawk. It's just never worth the stress for me. Other player's absentmindedness breaks most support abilities.

Interesting point that I've seen happen too many times while watching Critical Role.

[JellyPooga]

Probably worth noting that Hex adds an additional damage type to your repertoir, increasing your versatility against niche monsters.

I like Bless, I really do; it's a really solid spell, but for a 1/day buff I think I'd prefer something that is going to feel special once in a while and Bless is basically never going to give you that.

Hex, on the other hand, is not only going to give you the utility of the disadvantage effect and some general bonus damage, every now and then you'll face off against something immune to piercing damage and be all, like, "Ah-hah! I've just the thing!" and about once every 20 Hexed attacks or so (in theory), you'll land a crit and you'll be all "Hex yeah! I'm-a double that Necro damage" and everyone else will be, like "Sweet!" and you'll be all "Awwww, yeah!".

Hex might not be as good on paper, but Bless is...well, Bless is kinda boring. YMMV *shrug*

Plus, you're getting it from a Fey source...add some mischief to your game with it!

[Lord_Dots]

Probably worth noting that Hex adds an additional damage type to your repertoir, increasing your versatility against niche monsters.

Plus, you're getting it from a Fey source...add some mischief to your game with it!

Fun points! If I do end up taking Hex, my DM and I have reflavored it to do force damage (as necrotic did not suite my character at all) and rather than being a 'curse' it is a judgement placed upon the target by my goddess that I will then bring retribution upon.

[Silpharon]

Familiars cannot use the spellwrought tattoo. Can't speak the command word and it's very specific that the user must apply it to themselves.

Nah I don't think so. Look at the book, there's a picture of an orc applying a tattoo to an elf, and just in case you think it's misleading art, the caption says:

"An orc artist creates a tattoo on his elf friend"

I agree that the text on the tattoo says "your skin", but in this case RAI is obvious over RAW. This is another text error similar to Amulet of Devout applying to all spells (not just cleric spells). I think a giant picture in the book would have been caught over a small wording choice. What's more logical, only being able to create a tattoo on yourself, or being able to use the "needle" to create tattoos on others, especially when it doesn't require attunement?

Once the tattoo is on the familiar, it just takes an action to use it, no voice command.

[PhantomSoul]

Nah I don't think so. Look at the book, there's a picture of an orc applying a tattoo to an elf, and just in case you think it's misleading art, the caption says:

"An orc artist creates a tattoo on his elf friend"

I agree that the text on the tattoo says "your skin", but in this case RAI is obvious over RAW. This is another text error similar to Amulet of Devout applying to all spells (not just cleric spells). I think a giant picture in the book would have been caught over a small wording choice. What's more logical, only being able to create a tattoo on yourself, or being able to use the "needle" to create tattoos on others, especially when it doesn't require attunement?

Once the tattoo is on the familiar, it just takes an action to use it, no voice command.

That could also be a PC abilities (what the actual ability is) vs. possible-in-the-world-for-NPCs abilities (how it could show up in other ways), I suppose

[stoutstien]

Nah I don't think so. Look at the book, there's a picture of an orc applying a tattoo to an elf, and just in case you think it's misleading art, the caption says:

"An orc artist creates a tattoo on his elf friend"

I agree that the text on the tattoo says "your skin", but in this case RAI is obvious over RAW. This is another text error similar to Amulet of Devout applying to all spells (not just cleric spells). I think a giant picture in the book would have been caught over a small wording choice. What's more logical, only being able to create a tattoo on yourself, or being able to use the "needle" to create tattoos on others, especially when it doesn't require attunement?

Once the tattoo is on the familiar, it just takes an action to use it, no voice command.

So the RAI is for infinity familiar chains becauce of a picture rather than the spellwrought having specifically different text than the other tattoos to prevent a familiar from using it?

[Silpharon]

So the RAI is for infinity familiar chains becauce of a picture rather than the spellwrought having specifically different text than the other tattoos to prevent a familiar from using it?

All of the tattoos say "you hold the needle to your skin where you want the tattoo to appear" so that's already contradicting with the picture and caption. All of tattoos other than Spellwrought say it has to stay there through the attunement period (which requires a short rest), so a command word wouldn't make sense. And it makes sense to me that the creature applying the tattoo would say the command word. Still, I concede that this might have been deliberate. Another for sage advice!

What prevents giving a familiar a ring of spell storing with Find Familiar in it?

I'd also argue that Familiar chains don't make sense given the intelligence of the commanding familiar. I could see an intelligent PC commanding an owl to cast bless on a party through a ring of spell storing or a tattoo. I can't see an owl's owl doing anything intelligent besides hunting mice.

[RogueJK]

On paper bless is awesome and should always be taken.

In the real world, most people forget their bless bonus and if you want to use it you better be prepared to watch other people's rolls like a hawk. It's just never worth the stress for me. Other player's absentmindedness breaks most support abilities.


I've played several Clerics and Paladins, so I started using special "bless dice". They're sparkly 12-sided d4s (which are d12 shaped dice that are numbered I/II/III/IV repeated three times). When I cast Bless, I pass a "Bless dice" to each of the blessed party members.

A sparkly funky-looking d12 with Roman numerals sitting in front of them helps them to remember their Bless bonus. :wink: (Though it's still not 100%, and you'll still need to remind some people at times.)

Similar to this:

https://ph.gamekastle.com/products/product_37050.jpg

[RogueJK]

Probably worth noting that Hex adds an additional damage type to your repertoir, increasing your versatility against niche monsters.

I like Bless, I really do; it's a really solid spell, but for a 1/day buff I think I'd prefer something that is going to feel special once in a while and Bless is basically never going to give you that.


On a spellcaster, including the OP's Eldritch Knight, it's not just 1/day. Unlike Magic Initiate, with Fey Touched the spells become Spells Known, and you can cast them using spell slots like any other 1st/2nd levels spell.

It's only on a non-EK fighter, or another non-caster martial, that it would be strictly 1/day.