TCE's Telekinetic can pull creatures, too

[Segev]

Maybe I'm just late to the party and it's always been there, or others have noticed and discussed it, but the Telekinetic feat in TCE not only can push creatures, but pull them towards the character. This makes it sound a little more useful, in that it can pull a target towards you if you're a meleeist. It's also a bonus action, which helps.

Now, if you're any sort of rogue or monk, you can instead spend the bonus action to dash closer to the target, but how well could this be exploited? I'm thinking of simply a meleeist being just 5 ft. short of rushing up to range of the target, bonus action to drag the target the last five feet towards him, and then attacking (or grappling, or whatever).

It's almost, but not quite, an extra 5 ft. movement for a meleeist, isn't it? (Obviously, Mobile does it better, but Telekinetic does more than just this, and does it a little differently.)

[Dork_Forge]

Telekinetic's best uses imo are pulling others from melee wihtout attacks of opportunity and a cheap push effect for combos like cloud of daggers and spike growth.

I'm playing a 12th level Soulknife with Telekinetic in a one shot next week, so I'm hoping to be able to see how nice it is.

[Mr Adventurer]

I'm playing a straight-class Arcane Trickster who loves his Mage Hand and always bemoans the action cost of casting it - this feat is a lock-in for my level 10 Rogue ASI (we're at 7 right now). Looking forward to pushing enemies into danger (such as the Cleric's Spirit Guardians), pulling them towards me or an ally (moving them adjacent to an ally will enable ranged sneak attack), and just being able to cast it as a bonus action for all the Arcane Trickster goodness!

[Gale]

Using Telekinetic to safely move an ally without them provoking an opportunity attack is brilliant! Makes me wonder if you could use it on yourself too. The feat implies you can't, since the creature needs to be moved away from you; but that limitation seems really pedantic and strains disbelief. (I can move everything with my telekinesis except myself? Why?) If you can use it on yourself then you escape opportunity attacks for free, which you can definitely plan around, or even use it as a sort of "double jump" since you can shove the creature in any direction, including upward. It would definitely be helpful before flight is available.

[JackPhoenix]

Siren/Rusalka/any of those numerous other watery tarts that like to drown people:

1. be a level 2 enchanter wizard with Telekinetic feat
2. use Hypnotic Gaze on an victim
3. telekinetically push them off a nearest cliff/into a sufficiently large body of water to drown them.

While you need to use your action every turn to maintain Hypnotic Gaze, telekinetic uses your bonus action. And Hypnotic Gaze ends if *YOU* move more than 5' away from the creature, not if the creature is moved away from you (and yes, the game absolutely makes the distinction of who moves and how in other instances), as long as it can see or hear you. And even while drowning, the victim don't take damage to break HG until it's too late.

You can do the same thing if you grapple the victim first (more thematic, but wizards usually aren't well known for their grappling abilities... also, Telekinetic doesn't have size limitations) or get someone else to do it for you, but if you want to do it alone.... and, of course, not exactly practical when there are multiple enemies, but hey.


The feat implies you can't, since the creature needs to be moved away from you; but that limitation seems really pedantic and strains disbelief. (I can move everything with my telekinesis except myself? Why?)

Is your belief also strained because you can't push yourself with your own hands? (and no, I don't mean pushing yourself off other objects). The force of the push is vectored relatively to the telekinetic character, and goes in only two direction: away from the character, or towards the character. You can't push someone to the side either. And no, you can't move *everything* either... you can't move objects with the 2nd point, and Mage Hand from the 1st point has weight limitations.


you can shove the creature in any direction, including upward

You can shove the creature in two directions: Away from you, and closer to you. You can use it to push somene upward, but only if he's already above you.

[Thunderous Mojo]

The finalized 5' movement of the published feat is a little anemic.
Repelling blast can be stacked, via the multiple beams of Eldritch Blast.

The U/A feat was Psi Die roll x 5'. I would have been fine with 10', but 5' movement as a bonus action, isn't enough movement to consistently move someone out of danger.

Component-less Mage Hand is useful, but ultimately the Telekinetic Feat competes with other Bonus Action options.

A class rich with great Bonus Action powers like Rogues and Clerics, I think will pass on the feat.

[Mr Adventurer]

A class rich with great Bonus Action powers like Rogues and Clerics, I think will pass on the feat.

As noted, my Arcane Trickster absolutely will not pass on the feat.

[Thunderous Mojo]

While you need to use your action every turn to maintain Hypnotic Gaze, telekinetic uses your bonus action. And Hypnotic Gaze ends if *YOU* move more than 5' away from the creature, not if the creature is moved away from you (and yes, the game absolutely makes the distinction of who moves and how in other instances), as long as it can see or hear you.


Jack, would you care to detail which effects in 5e D&D have conditions that depend upon whom willingly moves? (Outside of Booming Blade).

Hypnotic Gaze is already a misnomer, as a creature only needs to hear you.
The power does state:
However, the effect ends if you move more than 5 feet away from the creature, if the creature can neither see nor hear you, or if the creature takes damage.

An aeffected creature has a speed of zero. Personally, I think the rule intent was for Hypnotic Gaze to end if the caster moves more than 5' away or if Forced Movement also moves the aeffected creature more than 5' away from the caster.

Hypnotic Gaze becomes exceedingly disruptive, if a party can have their Warlock or Psi Warrior use Repelling Blast or Telekinesis to Force Move a creature beyond the 5' limitation of the power, and still have the creature be incapacitated.

[Thunderous Mojo]

I'm playing a straight-class Arcane Trickster who loves his Mage Hand and always bemoans the action cost of casting it - this feat is a lock-in for my level 10 Rogue ASI (we're at 7 right now). Looking forward to pushing enemies into danger (such as the Cleric's Spirit Guardians), pulling them towards me or an ally (moving them adjacent to an ally will enable ranged sneak attack), and just being able to cast it as a bonus action for all the Arcane Trickster goodness!

Emphasis added. You post is unclear, but it seems like, (possibly), you are thinking the Telekinetic Feat allows you to cast Mage Hand as a Bonus Action.

The feat does not allow you to do that.

The Mage Hand effect provided by the Feat still requires an action to cast.

If the feat fits your character, of course you should seize it.
Just keep in mind, it is adding one more tool to your already substantial Swiss Army Knife that is an AT's Cunning Action.

[Gignere]

Emphasis added. You post is unclear, but it seems like, (possibly), you are thinking the Telekinetic Feat allows you to cast Mage Hand as a Bonus Action.

The feat does not allow you to do that.

The Mage Hand effect provided by the Feat still requires an action to cast.

If the feat fits your character, of course you should seize it.
Just keep in mind, it is adding one more tool to your already substantial Swiss Army Knife that is an AT's Cunning Action.

I’m playing an AT and even at level 4 I feel I have too much to do with my BA already. I don’t think I will grab telekinetic

[Segev]

Using Telekinetic to safely move an ally without them provoking an opportunity attack is brilliant! Makes me wonder if you could use it on yourself too. The feat implies you can't, since the creature needs to be moved away from you; but that limitation seems really pedantic and strains disbelief. (I can move everything with my telekinesis except myself? Why?) If you can use it on yourself then you escape opportunity attacks for free, which you can definitely plan around, or even use it as a sort of "double jump" since you can shove the creature in any direction, including upward. It would definitely be helpful before flight is available.

As noted by Thunderous Mojo, you can’t cast it as a bonus action, but the fact that you can cast it componentlessly means you have every excuse possible to say you recast it every so often. Make a habit of using it for daily life and it’s something you’d absently cast all the time, so it’s probably up when fighting starts.

[Gale]

Siren/Rusalka/any of those numerous other watery tarts that like to drown people:

1. be a level 2 enchanter wizard with Telekinetic feat
2. use Hypnotic Gaze on an victim
3. telekinetically push them off a nearest cliff/into a sufficiently large body of water to drown them.

While you need to use your action every turn to maintain Hypnotic Gaze, telekinetic uses your bonus action. And Hypnotic Gaze ends if *YOU* move more than 5' away from the creature, not if the creature is moved away from you (and yes, the game absolutely makes the distinction of who moves and how in other instances), as long as it can see or hear you. And even while drowning, the victim don't take damage to break HG until it's too late.

You can do the same thing if you grapple the victim first (more thematic, but wizards usually aren't well known for their grappling abilities... also, Telekinetic doesn't have size limitations) or get someone else to do it for you, but if you want to do it alone.... and, of course, not exactly practical when there are multiple enemies, but hey.



Is your belief also strained because you can't push yourself with your own hands? (and no, I don't mean pushing yourself off other objects). The force of the push is vectored relatively to the telekinetic character, and goes in only two direction: away from the character, or towards the character. You can't push someone to the side either. And no, you can't move *everything* either... you can't move objects with the 2nd point, and Mage Hand from the 1st point has weight limitations.



You can shove the creature in two directions: Away from you, and closer to you. You can use it to push somene upward, but only if he's already above you.

I'll admit, I was being hyperbolic about my disbelief being strained. I'm just used to characters with telekinesis being able to lift themselves. Exactly how their powers function are usually glossed over, which is often true in D&D too, because the designers wanted to leave room for the player to flavor how their abilities work. I can understand that perhaps the force of one's telekinetic shoves must originate from themselves in such a way that explicitly prevents them from moving themselves. But admittedly, this just seems far less fun and is harder for me to immediately understand.

I'm curious why you think you can't push a creature to the side though. I'm having trouble visualizing how pushing or pull a creature "to the side" doesn't also result in them being put in a position closer or further from me. Likewise, I'm also not sure why I can't use Telekinetic to move a creature 5 ft. up into the air, without them being directly above me. I'm guessing you think the feat requires you to draw a straight line of "push or pull" energy from yourself to the creature you want to move. But this seems like a really specific interpretation of the text that I don't think was intended.

EDIT: Never mind, I reread it and do agree with you now that you can't push creatures to the side, directly upward, etc. Although, still you could probably move a creature diagonally upward. Either way, I understand more so now why you can't use Telekinetic to move yourself.

[Mr Adventurer]

Emphasis added. You post is unclear, but it seems like, (possibly), you are thinking the Telekinetic Feat allows you to cast Mage Hand as a Bonus Action.

The feat does not allow you to do that.

The Mage Hand effect provided by the Feat still requires an action to cast.

If the feat fits your character, of course you should seize it.
Just keep in mind, it is adding one more tool to your already substantial Swiss Army Knife that is an AT's Cunning Action.

Quite right, I misremembered after another thread on this.

Still, invisibly casting an invisible spell does make it much easier to have when you need it - meaning more use out of it.

[JackPhoenix]

Jack, would you care to detail which effects in 5e D&D have conditions that depend upon whom willingly moves? (Outside of Booming Blade).

Mostly it's stuff like Spirit Guardians or Moonbeam that cause damage when something enters the spell's area, but it doesn't work if the caster moves the area over the victims. And, of course, Booming Blade. Though it doesn't have to be willing movement, unlike BB: being shoved away from the hypnotized creature would work too.

In addition, as you've quoted, "the effect ends when you move more than 5' away from the creature". Could've been written as "when the creature is more than 5' away from you" if the form of movement didn't matter.

[Emongnome777]

I agree that the feat isn't op for characters with an abundance of bonus action options each round, but classes like wizards, I think it's worthwhile. I have a 9th level wizard my DM just let me retcon to have Telekinetic at 8th (in place of +2 Int). It is a loss of +1 Int modifier (1 less spell prepped, 1 less save DC, etc), but giving me a bonus action option every round (I think the only BA spell I prep is Misty Step) is amazing. We play with the flanking optional rule, so getting an ally out of a flanking position or getting one into position is great there. We also have a bow ranger who would appreciate getting out of reach of enemies from time to time. Can't say how often these things will work, maybe not as often as I think, but there have been several times where 5' extra on a move was needed to establish flanking one round sooner. If I don't fall in the right place in the initiative order it doesn't help. I may consider more AoE spells now that I have this feat. Sadly, no other casters in the party that can lay down AoEs that I can work with, but oh well. Still looks fun. And the component-less, invisible MH has be handy when tied up in a dungeon and the keys are hanging just outside the cell.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Could've been written as "when the creature is more than 5' away from you" if the form of movement didn't matter.

You are absolutely correct that Hypnotic Gaze could have been written using the verbiage above. Errata has made it so that an incapacitated creature automatically fails grapple checks, which was not the case during the initial release of the PHB.

My Eberron game consists of a Storm Sorcerer, Enchanter Wizard, a Psi Knight, and an Artillerist. In a CQB battle inside a Lightning Rail train car....running Hypnotic Gaze as literally written, trivialized the encounter.

The Sorcerer had Gust of Wind active, aimed towards and out the side door of the container car. The Psi Knight, (me), would slide the creature out with the Telekinetic feat, after the Enchanter Incapacitated someone. Then, I would Grapple another foe, and either shove or carry them into the Gust of Wind. Rinse, Repeat.


Instead of the film being "Throw Mama from the Train"; it was, instead
"Throw Warforged from the Train".

We, the players, decided to stop implementing this interpretation of Hypnotic Gaze.



Still, invisibly casting an invisible spell does make it much easier to have when you need it - meaning more use out of it.

Absolutely, and the additional 30' of range, can be put to good use.
A 60' range Mage Hand, can create much mischief.

[Mr Adventurer]

The very first question I always ask of any opponents in a combat is "do they have any spell component pouches or focuses?". It's become an in-joke.

[jaappleton]

Can it be used to knock a creature prone?

[stoutstien]

Can it be used to knock a creature prone?
Raw no. It specifically says shove with a ST and I failure you can move the target 5 ft closer towards you or away. maybe if the user is flying or above the Target...

[Segev]

On pedantic terms, you moving at all once they are five or more feet from you would technically break Hypnotic Gaze.

As to shoving people, it’s also interesting that you don’t have to have the mage hand spell active to use the bonus action. Though we’ve discussed already how easy it is to justify that you always have it up unless something other than duration knocks it down, when you cast it componentlessly.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Raw no. It specifically says shove with a ST and I failure you can move the target 5 ft closer towards you or away. maybe if the user is flying or above the Target...

If your DM is generous, knocking/pulling them into objects can knock them prone.

Example, we sat down with a potential enemy and when negotiations seemed to be going south I initiated combat by knocking him backwards, toppling his chair with him in it.

[Segev]

If your DM is generous, knocking/pulling them into objects can knock them prone.

Example, we sat down with a potential enemy and when negotiations seemed to be going south I initiated combat by knocking him backwards, toppling his chair with him in it.

Is there any mechanical reference for shoving into objects knocking things prone? Not saying your DM did anything wrong there, but I like having something more solid when considering how to expand a specifically-worded ability can be used.

Of course, grapple plus the jump spell is still the most action-efficient way to prone somebody. Jump at least ten feet in the air and falling prones both of you, only costing you 20 feet of movement. And some damage. And five more or half your movement to stand. So maybe not so efficient if you don’t build for it.

[Samayu]

I wonder why it specifies moving the target only closer/farther. More options make the ability too powerful? Because if it's a flavor thing, something about leverage, I'd say you could move yourself by pushing off a wall, or other solid object. And you'll reply "but it says creature only," and again I'll ask why that is.

[JackPhoenix]

I wonder why it specifies moving the target only closer/farther. More options make the ability too powerful? Because if it's a flavor thing, something about leverage, I'd say you could move yourself by pushing off a wall, or other solid object. And you'll reply "but it says creature only," and again I'll ask why that is.

It's magic, it ignores Newton's 3rd law and doesn't apply the force to the user. Otherwise, trying to push the Tarrasque would push yourself away from it instead.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Is there any mechanical reference for shoving into objects knocking things prone? Not saying your DM did anything wrong there, but I like having something more solid when considering how to expand a specifically-worded ability can be used.

Of course, grapple plus the jump spell is still the most action-efficient way to prone somebody. Jump at least ten feet in the air and falling prones both of you, only costing you 20 feet of movement. And some damage. And five more or half your movement to stand. So maybe not so efficient if you don’t build for it.

As far as pushing them into objects, no, nothing concrete.

There is always the option of pulling people from their high ground though, which can knock them prone if they fall far enough.

[Segev]

As far as pushing them into objects, no, nothing concrete.

There is always the option of pulling people from their high ground though, which can knock them prone if they fall far enough.

That it can! Very situational, though: there has to be high and low ground, the target has to be on the high ground and the path to the low ground via ledge must be in line with the Telekinetic character and the target, and the target must be within 5 ft of the edge. All possible, but still situational.

[MaxWilson]

That it can! Very situational, though: there has to be high and low ground, the target has to be on the high ground and the path to the low ground via ledge must be in line with the Telekinetic character and the target, and the target must be within 5 ft of the edge. All possible, but still situational.

Especially since Mold Earth can create a 10' height differential.

[Segev]

Especially since Mold Earth can create a 10' height differential.

The way it's worded, it moves earth from the hole to another spot; hard to justify elevating somebody atop it, though it's an open question what happens if you put the excavated earth in somebody's space.

[MaxWilson]

The way it's worded, it moves earth from the hole to another spot; hard to justify elevating somebody atop it, though it's an open question what happens if you put the excavated earth in somebody's space.

I wasn't saying you can elevate someone on top of it, just that you can create height differentials. That means you can dig trenches (in loose earth) deep enough to cause falling damage, and create total cover. Can you do that during combat? Not necessarily, but D&D is as much about what you do before combat as during it.

[Segev]

I wasn't saying you can elevate someone on top of it, just that you can create height differentials. That means you can dig trenches (in loose earth) deep enough to cause falling damage, and create total cover. Can you do that during combat? Not necessarily, but D&D is as much about what you do before combat as during it.

Ahh. I wasn't following your strategic thinking, then.

[HolyAvenger7]

So an EK with Booming Blade could strike another martial and then bonus action push him 5' away. While that wouldn't trigger the second Boom, it would if the opponent wanted to close the gap to perform a melee attack again.