Would an Artificer-Barbarian Work?

[ChaseC311]

Ive always had an idea of a Dr.Jekyll Mr.Hyde character ever since ERFtLW came out. My idea was a Simic Hybrid Alchemist Artificer-Beast Barbarian Multiclass who was born a tiefling only for his experiments to turn him into a simic hybrid theiugh alchemy, and whos rage would be him drinking an unstable concoction to turn him into a fully animalistic monstrosity. Would it work/synergize decently? With the rage acting as tanking and the spellcasting acting as off-support when not raging?

[RogueJK]

It would work better than a lot of other Spellcaster/Barbarian multiclasses, because Artificers aren't necessarily as heavily tied to spellcasting and Concentration.

But you'd still probably be a bit behind the curve at higher levels due to not being able to Concentrate on some of the more potent/useful spells while raging, so I think you'll probably reach a point where you basically rarely rage any more once your Concentration spells and defensive reactions like Shield/Absorb Elements become much more potent than simply some boosts to your melee ability and weapon damage resistance. But it could be fun until then, and certainly flavorful.


While I like the Jekyl/Hyde "drink a concoction to become animalistic" flavor, that could be done with specifically Alchemist levels, and Alchemist wouldn't necessarily be as good of an option mechanically as some of the other Artificer subclasses, due to it being more focused on spellcasting than something like a Battlesmith, Armorer, or Artillerist. Those others would synergize better mechanically, giving you things to do with your otherwise unused Bonus Action, and not being as reliant on spellcasting.

Something like a Barbarian 5/Artillerist X could be a good combo, especially at lower levels. Raging STR-based Melee/Tanking with Infused Medium Armor plus Bonus Action handheld Flamethrower/Protector.

Battlesmith or Armorer could be similar, with fewer Barbarian levels needed since you're already getting Extra Attack from the Artificer subclass. Something like Barbarian 1 or 3/Artificer X. Battle Smith gets you a Steel Defender for extra Bonus Action damage, plus some additional melee damage, but you'd need to minimize Barbarian levels in order to maximize Steel Guardian survivability. Armorer would help you tank by getting you some Arcane Medium Guardian Armor with which you can give yourself Temp HP, and also get enemies to focus on you by using Thunder Gauntlets for one of your attacks to take advantage of the rider. (For less overall damage output, but better tanking.)

I don't know that Beast Barbarian would be the most optimal with any of those Artificer multiclass builds, though. You're not going to be advancing that far into Barbarian, so you wouldn't end up with the damage boost or magical attacks that higher level Beast Barbarians would get. 3 levels (or 5 if needed for Extra Attack) of Bear Totem would probably be more applicable, especially for the extra tanky builds with Armorer. Or something like Ancestral Guardian, to get the benefit of the Thunder Gauntlets while still allowing you to use a higher damage weapon.

If you really want more Barbarian than Artificer, such as if going with Beast Barbarian, I think your best bet would be something like an Armorer 3/Barbarian X, taking advantage of Infused Medium Armor for slightly higher AC and some side benefits. You could go Guardian for some Bonus Action Temp HP with uses that scale with proficiency bonus, or Infiltrator for slightly faster movement and a decent INT-based ranged attack option that still leaves your hands free for Claw attacks. Either way, you'd also have some utility cantrips and 1st level spells for use outside of combat, and a bit of the Artificer flavor.

[Anymage]

What are you expecting to get from each of the sides? Not just flavorwise (the Guild Artisan background and proficiency in alchemist tools can cover those just fine, as can a negligibly tweaked Sage background), but mechanically? Also, how often do you expect hulking out to be your character's shtick in combat?

[Lavaeolus]

It's probably not ever going to be the optimal play, due to some inherent anti-synergy between the two classes, but let's see what's on offer. The things to keep in mind:


Barbarians like to Rage and Artificers like to cast. A lot of Barbarian's features key off Raging, which shuts off concentration and the ability to cast spells. An upside in versatiliy? Well, essentially you're shifting between which suboptimal form you'd like to be in, due to the sacrifices you've made in splitting your progression. It could be nice for a Barb to have a few spells around out-of-combat, but there are easier ways to do it. It's worth thinking about which side we're most willing to sacrifice.


Barbarians are stat-intensive. Barbarians like having at least 14 DEX for medium armour, but have features that key off using Strength and can't use heavy armour. Adding Intelligence to the mix hurts.

The MADness could be alleviated through gauntlets of ogre power or a headband of intellect, but unless you find them out in the wild that requires a significant investment into Artificer.

Now, let's look at the Artificer subclasses. Do they have anything to help with this?


Alchemist: Sort of! Expending a spell slot to create an elixir is not casting a spell, nor is administering it during combat. That comes on at level 3, and from thereonout, the subclass will be more spell-focused; this might be best be a dip, then. You sacrifice three Barbarian levels for infused items and the ability to create three specific elixirs per long rest. Perhaps you could use a homunculus or an ally's familiar to deliver and administer elixirs for you? Cuts into your ability to cast spells when out-of-combat, though. Going this route means that raising Intelligence beyond the bare-minimum to multiclass isn't as important.


Artillerist: Similar, but this time you get to use your spell slots summoning up a cannon. This has some utility and will be a use for your bonus-action, although I think its effectiveness would depend on campaign style a little. The cannon lasts an hour but takes an action to spawn; it's a real detriment if a fight is sprung on you and it's not already out.


Battle Smith: Battle Smith's problem is that it seems redundant to what you could get from Barbarian and you can't benefit from using Intelligence as an attack stat without giving up on some Barb features. You get a Steel Defender, but each Barb level will take away from its health. You could try this on a more Artificer-focused build, then, but the further you go into Artificer the more giving up spellcasting during a Rage hurts.


Armorer: I'm not too familiar with this subclass, but am I right in that Arcane Armor doesn't necessarily count as heavy armour? Could be an option.


My instinct, for this Jekyll/Hyde-type character, would be to go Barbarian 5 -> Alchemist 3 -> Barbarian X. This would play mostly as a standard Barbarian, but would be able to leverage elixirs when appropriate without sacrificing too much of their Barb ability. I'd run with a bare minimum of INT 13.

[RogueJK]

Alchemist: Sort of! Expending a spell slot to create an elixir is not casting a spell, nor is administering it during combat. That comes on at level 3, and from thereonout, the subclass will be more spell-focused; this might be best be a dip, then. You sacrifice three Barbarian levels for infused items and the ability to create three specific elixirs per long rest. Perhaps you could use a homunculus or an ally's familiar to deliver and administer elixirs for you? Cuts into your ability to cast spells when out-of-combat, though. Going this route means that raising Intelligence beyond the bare-minimum to multiclass isn't as important.

The fact that it takes an Action to create an elixir, plus another Action to drink it, means that in-combat elixir creation is fairly useless, and in-combat elixir drinking will even be pretty limited. You'd mostly be creating elixirs outside of combat, and then hoping you get the chance to drink them just before initiating combat.

Plus all the other Alchemist abilities are designed around boosting spellcasting, which doesn't play nice with Rage.

As a result, I think it's the least synergistic with Barbarian out of all the subclasses. If making/drinking an elixir was a Bonus Action, it'd be potentially more doable, as a 3ish level dip.




Armorer: I'm not too familiar with this subclass, but am I right in that Arcane Armor doesn't necessarily count as heavy armour? Could be an option.


It's not that it doesn't "count as heavy armor"... It's that you can designate any suit of armor, including Light or Medium Armor, as your Arcane Armor. However, the intent is pretty clearly for it to be used with Heavy Armor in most cases, since they're the only Artificers to get Heavy Armor proficiency, they can ignore Heavy Armor's STR requirement, and they can even cancel out Heavy Armor's Stealth Disadvantage if they go with the Infiltrator option.

But in this case, with a Barbarian multiclass, you'd want to designate some Medium Armor as your Arcane Armor. If you were to don a set of Heavy Armor and make it your Arcane Armor, you may not have the Stealth Disadvantage or STR requirement any more, but it still counts as Heavy Armor, and therefore would cancel out many of your Barbarian abilities.

[Lavaeolus]

If making/drinking an elixir was a Bonus Action, it'd be potentially more doable, as a 3ish level dip.

This is why I suggest the homuculus or a familiar: you effectively gain the ability to administer elixirs as a bonus action (or nothing with a familiar, but Artificers don't get them by default), by commanding your servant to use its action on them for you. Although the homunculus is very fragile this way and quite costly regardless.

...Or such was the plan. I went over the Alchemist again and you're only given the option to "administer it to an incapacitated creature". An odd restriction when dealing with allies, but one that really puts the kaput on this already quite risky plan.

[stoutstien]

This is why I suggest the homuculus or a familiar: you effectively gain the ability to administer elixirs as a bonus action, by commanding your servant to use its action on them for you (although the homunculus is very fragile this way and quite costly regardless).

...Or such was the plan. I went over the Alchemist again and you're only given the option to "administer it to an incapacitated creature". An odd restriction when dealing with allies, but one that really puts the kaput on this already quite risky plan.

Yes unfortunately that is the case. I'm unsure why they don't do something while they were porting the artificer over to Tasha's.why didn't they address the one subclass that everybody had potential issues with. especially when most of the issues could have been addressed with minor tweaks in how the elixirs are worded and how they work with the action economy.

[RogueJK]

...Or such was the plan. I went over the Alchemist again and you're only given the option to "administer it to an incapacitated creature". An odd restriction when dealing with allies, but one that really puts the kaput on this already quite risky plan.

Yeah, that's the killer. The person wanting to ingest the elixir has to be the one to spend their Action, unless they're incapacitated. So no matter how you slice it, even with a Familiar, it's going to cost your Action to buff yourself... Unless you can convince your DM to allow otherwise.

[Dork_Forge]

It would be incredibly MAD, but it wouldn't be that BAD (eh? ehhh?)

You would just spend your infusions on magical gear for yourself, then you can pick pretty much whatever you want:

-Alchemist: Burn all your slots on more Elixirs and take care of your own healing between combats

-Battle Smith: Rock a metal buddy in combat and impsoe disadvantage on some attacks against you

-Artillerist: Spam temp hp or patch a hole in the Barbarian's reportoire with ranged and AOE attacks whilst raging

-Armorer: You'd have to go for medium armor, but you can the be whatever Barbarian you like and still get off a kind of Ancestral Guardian effect, whilst retaining say Bear totem resistances or Zealot damage

If you pick a subclass without a bonus action buddy, then use an infusion to make yourself one with a Homunculus.

The stat array is the biggest hurdle, but a +1 weapon you give yourself can help offset that a bit.

[Verble]

I'd skip the artificer levels and just flavor your beast rage as drinking a concoction. Simple flavor fix for lots of features in the artificer class you'd never realistically use.