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Scalenex
2020-12-14, 01:46 PM
I've poked around online for different modern and medieval interpretations of unicorns and how this can apply to RPGs.

I like the idea of unicorns being a sort of angel of the wilderness. That seems to be a good mythological direction to run with so I am leaning towards doing that for my world.

My main nature god is so into duality that he is borderline schizophrenic, straddling the line between good and evil, farms and wilderness, spiritual and material, masculine and feminine, light and dark, among others.

If unicorns are the angels of the wilderness. What does a demon of the wilderness look like?

nickl_2000
2020-12-14, 01:49 PM
How about the wendigo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendigo#:~:text=Wendigo%20(%2F%CB%88w%C9%9Bn,Canad a%20and%20the%20United%20States.

Ajustusdaniel
2020-12-14, 02:14 PM
Hmm. Well, it's probably huge, brutal, carnivorous, and smelly. How about an Owlbear?

Ikedashi
2020-12-14, 03:03 PM
If we think of unicorns as a kind of celestial equine figure, i would say that the black, flaming, sometimes headless, evil horse would be its counter part, usually called nightmare.
Look for nightmare horse and you will find many arts of it.

Scalenex
2020-12-14, 03:06 PM
How about the wendigo?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendigo#:~:text=Wendigo%20(%2F%CB%88w%C9%9Bn,Canad a%20and%20the%20United%20States.




I do like Wendigo. I have already included them in my setting and game though mostly as a moat monster or planned random encounter.

I guess i could expand on their lore without a lot of fuss.

That being, said please don't stop contributing ideas!


Hmm. Well, it's probably huge, brutal, carnivorous, and smelly. How about an Owlbear?

I suppose an owl bear is no less ridiculous than a unicorn which is basically a cross between a horse and rhino.

I just cannot use owlbears in a serious way because everyone in my group is very familiar with Order of the Stick #322 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html)

noob
2020-12-14, 03:11 PM
An evil bard?
A tree that turns people into zombies?(low mobility, is not from the same reign and so on)

InvisibleBison
2020-12-14, 03:12 PM
To figure out what the opposite of a unicorn is, we should examine what a unicorn is.

Unicorns are pure, so an anti-unicorn should be corrupt.
Unicorns are beautiful, so an anti-unicorn should be hideous.
Unicorns are animals, so an anti-unicorn should be a plant.
Unicorns are powerful, so an anti-unicorn should be weak.

Putting these together, we get the corpse-eater tree: A short, scrawny tree, covered with disease-like bulges, growing in the darkest parts of the forest. It emits puffs of pollen from its flowers, which drift through the air and coat the land around it. Any creature who breathes in the pollen, or eats any plants coated with the pollen, falls under the mental influence of the tree. These poor souls proceed directly to the tree, lay down on its roots, and let themselves starve to death so that their bodies can nourish the tree. Should anyone approach the tree without falling under its influence, all its thralls who have not yet died will rise up to defend the tree.

Ajustusdaniel
2020-12-14, 03:20 PM
A kelpie makes an interesting counterpart to a Unicorn, in that it's also sort of a horse, but it wants to murder you. I'd go ahead and give it a poisonous bite and a scaly hide in its 'true' form, to play up the snakey associations with nature that pretends it's all friendlylike and then tries to kill you.

Old Harry MTX
2020-12-14, 03:39 PM
What about a Nightmare (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/4/4c/Nightmare-5e.jpg/revision/latest/zoom-crop/width/720/height/720?cb=20171010171957)?

sandmote
2020-12-14, 03:51 PM
Unicorns are animals, so an anti-unicorn should be a plant.
Unicorns are powerful, so an anti-unicorn should be weak.
Unicorns are animals of nature, so an anti-unicorn could also be of humanoid origin.
Unicorns primarily serve a healing roll (either willing healing others or with something harvested from their bodies), so an anti-unicorn could also be a serial killer.


I do like Wendigo. I have already included them in my setting and game though mostly as a moat monster or planned random encounter.

I guess i could expand on their lore without a lot of fuss. As an issue of general respect (in the same manner as one should treat any creature from a real mythology) wendigo should very much be associated with cannibalism, and originate from human cannibals, either as the first wendigos or by possession of a wendigo spirit. Which would make them of humanoid origin and a killer (see above).

Please note your current description doesn't mention either way if you've done so, and I'm fully aware you may have already included this in the lore for random encounters with them.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-12-14, 04:29 PM
Manticore: pointy bits are at the other end.

Silly Name
2020-12-14, 07:23 PM
A dragon? The nasty medieval kind, specifically, the one that spews poison, rots the land and all that jazz. I would particularly play with the relationship with maidens both creatures posses - unicorns were said to be wild and unfriendly to humans, except in the presence of a pure maiden, who could tame them.

Your classic European dragon eats the fair maidens with gusto.
It also comes in many varieties, shapes and forms. The French tarrasque was a dragon, technically, but looks very different from the classic winged beast.

Another, simpler option could be a race of calydonian boars - large, dangerous, destroys crops, hide as thick as iron, strong tusks and possibily even lighting breath! The OG Calydonian Boar was a punishment sent by Artemis, so it ties with ideas of divine retribution and untamed nature.

Ajustusdaniel
2020-12-14, 07:41 PM
A dragon? The nasty medieval kind, specifically, the one that spews poison, rots the land and all that jazz. I would particularly play with the relationship with maidens both creatures posses - unicorns were said to be wild and unfriendly to humans, except in the presence of a pure maiden, who could tame them.

Your classic European dragon eats the fair maidens with gusto.
It also comes in many varieties, shapes and forms. The French tarrasque was a dragon, technically, but looks very different from the classic winged beast.

Another, simpler option could be a race of calydonian boars - large, dangerous, destroys crops, hide as thick as iron, strong tusks and possibily even lighting breath! The OG Calydonian Boar was a punishment sent by Artemis, so it ties with ideas of divine retribution and untamed nature.

Ooh, good call, the Lambton Worm. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton_Worm)

Scalenex
2020-12-14, 09:26 PM
If we think of unicorns as a kind of celestial equine figure, i would say that the black, flaming, sometimes headless, evil horse would be its counter part, usually called nightmare.
Look for nightmare horse and you will find many arts of it.

My nature deity has good and evil counterparts and he is the god of horses, so that could work. Nightmares are a good fit thematically but nightmares are not nearly as prevalent in the cultural consciousness than unicorns...then again few things are.


To figure out what the opposite of a unicorn is, we should examine what a unicorn is.

Unicorns are pure, so an anti-unicorn should be corrupt.
Unicorns are beautiful, so an anti-unicorn should be hideous.
Unicorns are animals, so an anti-unicorn should be a plant.
Unicorns are powerful, so an anti-unicorn should be weak.

Putting these together, we get the corpse-eater tree: A short, scrawny tree, covered with disease-like bulges, growing in the darkest parts of the forest. It emits puffs of pollen from its flowers, which drift through the air and coat the land around it. Any creature who breathes in the pollen, or eats any plants coated with the pollen, falls under the mental influence of the tree. These poor souls proceed directly to the tree, lay down on its roots, and let themselves starve to death so that their bodies can nourish the tree. Should anyone approach the tree without falling under its influence, all its thralls who have not yet died will rise up to defend the tree.


I guess I should say, "what is a good dramatic foil for a unicorn?", as opposed to "what is opposite of the unicorn in every way."

I'm looking for the dark avatar of nature's wrath whereas your tree is a perversion of nature.

I will say, I really like the concept you described, so I think I will use it as a monster type somewhere in my world, I just don't think it will thematically tied to my unicorns.


A kelpie makes an interesting counterpart to a Unicorn, in that it's also sort of a horse, but it wants to murder you. I'd go ahead and give it a poisonous bite and a scaly hide in its 'true' form, to play up the snakey associations with nature that pretends it's all friendlylike and then tries to kill you.

That's a good idea. I like the stories about kelpies and with additional powers, they could be an anti-unicorn.


Unicorns are animals of nature, so an anti-unicorn could also be of humanoid origin.
Unicorns primarily serve a healing roll (either willing healing others or with something harvested from their bodies), so an anti-unicorn could also be a serial killer.

As an issue of general respect (in the same manner as one should treat any creature from a real mythology) wendigo should very much be associated with cannibalism, and originate from human cannibals, either as the first wendigos or by possession of a wendigo spirit. Which would make them of humanoid origin and a killer (see above).

Please note your current description doesn't mention either way if you've done so, and I'm fully aware you may have already included this in the lore for random encounters with them.

I hadn't developed whether wendigo were a nature spirit or a cannibal cursed to be a monster. I like both versions of the legend. For the purpose of the RPG session, it was a dangerous cunning monster that was difficult to kill.

We didn't dive deep into the metaphysics of it.



Manticore: pointy bits are at the other end.

Not a bad idea.


A dragon? The nasty medieval kind, specifically, the one that spews poison, rots the land and all that jazz. I would particularly play with the relationship with maidens both creatures posses - unicorns were said to be wild and unfriendly to humans, except in the presence of a pure maiden, who could tame them.

Could work, but I have so much material with dragons that I'd have to rebrand it with a different name like drake or drakkon.


Your classic European dragon eats the fair maidens with gusto.
It also comes in many varieties, shapes and forms. The French tarrasque was a dragon, technically, but looks very different from the classic winged beast.

Another, simpler option could be a race of calydonian boars - large, dangerous, destroys crops, hide as thick as iron, strong tusks and possibily even lighting breath! The OG Calydonian Boar was a punishment sent by Artemis, so it ties with ideas of divine retribution and untamed nature.

The French terrasque is not a bad idea. Also good for psyching out the player.

"A terraque jumps out of the bushes"
"WHAT?!?"
"A French terrasque!"


Rebranding the Caldyonian Boar is an even better idea.


Ooh, good call, the Lambton Worm. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambton_Worm)

That works too.

PairO'Dice Lost
2020-12-14, 10:57 PM
Manticore: pointy bits are at the other end.

Even better: a Dire Porcupine! Pointy bits everywhere except the forehead! :smallbiggrin:


I guess I should say, "what is a good dramatic foil for a unicorn?", as opposed to "what is opposite of the unicorn in every way."

I'm looking for the dark avatar of nature's wrath whereas your tree is a perversion of nature.

Looking at the unicorn in more metaphorical rather than literal terms, the general themes that come to mind for unicorns are purity (alicorns are said to cure all sorts of maladies), innocence (unicorns are associated with young and/or naive children and in many versions can only be ridden by virgins), and peace (unicorns often inspire feelings like calm, wonder, awe, and the like in those who meet them), and unicorns are often portrayed as defenders of the weak and slayers of the wicked.

A creature serving as a foil for that would be a violent, bloody, and fearsome beast who preyed on the weak, and honestly I think the kind of critter that fits that characterization and meets the dramatic needs best would likely be a dinosaur, either a smaller pack hunter to emphasize the "prey on the weak" bit or a massive apex predator to emphasize the "violent and fearsome" bit. The traditional big predators that Medieval folks dealt with (wolves and bears and such) don't have quite the oomph they used to (either in-game or in the player consciousness) and so don't have the symbolic weight to counterbalance unicorns, but carnivorous dinosaurs are still big and scary beasties to most people and are rare enough in-game to have the appropriate mystique.

Plus, in the Moonshae Isles books the primary servant of the Earthmother (the local benevolent nature goddess) was a unicorn, with a whale and a wolf pack taking secondary roles, and the main villain Kazgoroth (an interloping evil godlike being who wanted to kill the Earthmother) was a shapeshifting beast whose natural form was that of a tyrannosaurus, so there's some great lore precedent for a divine unicorn-vs.-dinosaur symbolic conflict.

Scalenex
2020-12-15, 12:03 AM
Even better: a Dire Porcupine! Pointy bits everywhere except the forehead! :smallbiggrin:

A dire porcupine basically is a manticore.


Looking at the unicorn in more metaphorical rather than literal terms, the general themes that come to mind for unicorns are purity (alicorns are said to cure all sorts of maladies), innocence (unicorns are associated with young and/or naive children and in many versions can only be ridden by virgins), and peace (unicorns often inspire feelings like calm, wonder, awe, and the like in those who meet them), and unicorns are often portrayed as defenders of the weak and slayers of the wicked.

Back when unicorn was made the national symbol of Scotland, unicorns were considered to be feral and dangerous.

The idea that female virgins could tame them was kind of an in-joke. "It takes a mythical creature to tame a mythical creature."

This later got whitewashed into unicorns being associated with being protectors of young girls.

But I guess a fantasy world for modern audiences probably best at least pay lip service to unicorns being a defender to the innocent.

I am sort of leaning towards unicorns being sympathetic towards defenseless humans and demihumans, especially children but they mostly exist to defend nature. Civilization can protect itself.


A creature serving as a foil for that would be a violent, bloody, and fearsome beast who preyed on the weak, and honestly I think the kind of critter that fits that characterization and meets the dramatic needs best would likely be a dinosaur, either a smaller pack hunter to emphasize the "prey on the weak" bit or a massive apex predator to emphasize the "violent and fearsome" bit. The traditional big predators that Medieval folks dealt with (wolves and bears and such) don't have quite the oomph they used to (either in-game or in the player consciousness) and so don't have the symbolic weight to counterbalance unicorns, but carnivorous dinosaurs are still big and scary beasties to most people and are rare enough in-game to have the appropriate mystique.

Plus, in the Moonshae Isles books the primary servant of the Earthmother (the local benevolent nature goddess) was a unicorn, with a whale and a wolf pack taking secondary roles, and the main villain Kazgoroth (an interloping evil godlike being who wanted to kill the Earthmother) was a shapeshifting beast whose natural form was that of a tyrannosaurus, so there's some great lore precedent for a divine unicorn-vs.-dinosaur symbolic conflict.


That's not a bad idea. At least for going with the temperament of being a destroyer that preys on the weak.

PairO'Dice Lost
2020-12-15, 01:53 AM
Even better: a Dire Porcupine! Pointy bits everywhere except the forehead! :smallbiggrin:

A dire porcupine basically is a manticore.

Nah, a manticore merely has tail spikes while a dire porcupine has ALL THE SPIKES. The only advantage a manticore has is the ability to launch its spikes...

...hmm.

Memo to self: stat up quill-launching dire porcupines before next session.


Back when unicorn was made the national symbol of Scotland, unicorns were considered to be feral and dangerous.
[...]
But I guess a fantasy world for modern audiences probably best at least pay lip service to unicorns being a defender to the innocent.

Mythic unicorns like those (the ones referenced by Pliny and the Bible and which were gradually turning into their later incarnation in the Middle Ages) were feral and dangerous and don't bear much temperamental resemblance to the modern version, true, but they didn't bear any physical resemblance either. They were said to have the "feet of an elephant and the tail of a boar" and were known for a cry "like a deep bellow," and were influenced more than a little bit by stories of rhinoceroses. Modern and ancient unicorns have no more in common than modern and ancient mermaids or dragons, so if one is going with the modern "shiny white horsey with a magical horn" depiction the modern metaphors are kind of a package deal with that.

Eldan
2020-12-15, 04:03 AM
Wasn't it the head of a boar and the tail of a lion? Maybe I'm misremembering. But it's basically a rhinoceros.

PairO'Dice Lost
2020-12-15, 07:58 PM
Wasn't it the head of a boar and the tail of a lion? Maybe I'm misremembering. But it's basically a rhinoceros.

There have been a bunch of different mix-and-match descriptions of unicorns over time, as was typical of ancient and Medieval bestiaries. I was specifically quoting Pliny the Elder's Naturalis Historia, which described it thus: "The unicorn is the fiercest animal, and it is said that it is impossible to capture one alive. It has the body of a horse, the head of a stag, the feet of an elephant, the tail of a boar, and a single black horn three feet long in the middle of its forehead. Its cry is a deep bellow."--which, yes, is basically a horse crossed with a version of the Indian rhinoceros filtered through mangled and exaggerated travelers' tales.