Hexblade + Eldritch Adept: Best one level dip in the game?

[Caelic]

Okay. So: Warlock has always been a prime candidate for dipping. Hexblade has always been a prime candidate for Warlock dipping. Usually, though, it was a 2 to 3 level dip, which actually has fairly significant cost of opportunity.

With the addition of Eldritch Adept, the calculus seems to have changed; it's now possible to get Agonizing Blast with a one-level dip. That's...a whole lot for a single level's delay in ASIs. Medium armor proficiency, martial weapons, the ability to attack with Charisma, Hexblade's Curse, and full Eldritch Blast goodness for a single level? Yes, please.

What's the cost of opportunity? Well, as noted, a single level delay on ASIs. You don't actually lose any ASIs, because you're only taking a one level dip. And, of course, you lose the capstone ability at level 20, but for most Charisma-based classes, the capstone isn't a gotta-have, even if the game does last until level 20.

Has Eldritch Adept pushed the Hexblade dip over the line into "too good" territory?

[Segev]

Okay. So: Warlock has always been a prime candidate for dipping. Hexblade has always been a prime candidate for Warlock dipping. Usually, though, it was a 2 to 3 level dip, which actually has fairly significant cost of opportunity.

With the addition of Eldritch Adept, the calculus seems to have changed; it's now possible to get Agonizing Blast with a one-level dip. That's...a whole lot for a single level's delay in ASIs. Medium armor proficiency, martial weapons, the ability to attack with Charisma, Hexblade's Curse, and full Eldritch Blast goodness for a single level? Yes, please.

What's the cost of opportunity? Well, as noted, a single level delay on ASIs. You don't actually lose any ASIs, because you're only taking a one level dip. And, of course, you lose the capstone ability at level 20, but for most Charisma-based classes, the capstone isn't a gotta-have, even if the game does last until level 20.

Has Eldritch Adept pushed the Hexblade dip over the line into "too good" territory?

It also costs you an ASI. For Eldritch Adept, itself.

[MaxWilson]

It's not "full Eldritch Blast" benefits. In fact, Eldritch Blast with only one invocation on it is still kind of meh. The power of Eldritch Blast lies in stacking e.g. Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Lethargy Spear of Hadar.

So fundamentally, Eldritch Adept doesn't change anything for Hexblade dips. Most of the benefit comes from Hexblade, and Eldritch Adept lets you spend one ASI to get one invocation instead of spending one level to get a second short rest slot and two invocations.

Eldritch Adept is arguably too good for other scenarios (like Illusionists who want at-will Silent Image without taking any warlock levels at all), but in the Hexblade scenario specifically it's nothing new. If it's overpowered for a given combo, Hexblade alone was probably already overpowered for that combo before Eldritch Adept came along.

[Bobthewizard]

It also costs you an ASI. For Eldritch Adept, itself.

Agree. With a two level dip you push back your primary class abilities 2 levels and lose the last ASI.

With the one level dip and Eldritch Adept you only push your primary class back by one but you push your ASIs back by one whole ASI. You still only have 4 other ASIs.

Seems like about a wash to me. It might be a good option if you start Hexblade as a variant human to take Eldritch Adept as your starting feat.

[KorvinStarmast]

Agree. With a two level dip you push back your primary class abilities 2 levels and lose the last ASI.

With the one level dip and Eldritch Adept you only push your primary class back by one but you push your ASIs back by one whole ASI. You still only have 4 other ASIs.

Seems like about a wash to me. It might be a good option if you start Hexblade as a variant human to take Eldritch Adept as your starting feat.
vHuman warlock with eldritch adept: EB + AB from the get go. Yes. :smallcool:

[KorvinStarmast]

Seems like about a wash to me. It might be a good option if you start Hexblade as a variant human to take Eldritch Adept as your starting feat. vHuman warlock with eldritch adept: EB + AB from the get go. Yes. :smallcool:

[MaxWilson]

vHuman warlock with eldritch adept: EB + AB from the get go. Yes. :smallcool:

At that point you're basically competitive with a non-Archery-specialized fighter shooting a heavy crossbow.

Seriously people, Agonizing is not the most exciting invocation available, especially not before Tier 3

[KorvinStarmast]

At that point you're basically competitive with a non-Archery-specialized fighter shooting a heavy crossbow. And you can do it with zero equipment. The damage is not resisted (save perhaps for flame skulls) and works against all of those annoyingly resistant enemies like werewolves ... and this frees up some neat little customization choices at level 2.
Repelling is likewise a fine choice, IME.
YMMV.

[RogueJK]

I'd rather spend the extra level than the feat, in many cases. Dipping Hexblade on a primary caster with high stats already might be the main exception, since you'll want the faster spell progression more than the ASI. Or especially on something like a Hexsorcadin that can't really afford a 2nd level of Warlock.

You get more out of the extra level of Warlock than just one Invocation anyway, and you still get to use that early ASI for something else.


With 2 levels of Hexblade you're giving up your Level 19 ASI. With 1 level of Hexblade and Eldritch Adept you're most likely giving up your Level 1 or 4 ASI. I'd much rather have the earlier ASI for use on something else, compared to the later Level 19 one, since it'll see a lot more use, and be more impactful overall. (Nearly all campaigns don't get to Level 20 anyway, so chances are you're not usually actually missing out on that late ASI at all...)

[Caelic]

It also costs you an ASI. For Eldritch Adept, itself.


Well, it costs you a feat, not necessarily an ASI. Variant human or the "custom race" from Tasha's can take it right out of the gate with no ASIs lost. You do, of course, have to factor in the cost of opportunity represented by not taking a different feat, perhaps with a +1 to a stat.

[Hael]

So one obvious representative example here is the sorlock. Before it was 2 hex, 18 Sorc. Now there is a good argument for 1 hex 19 Sorc.

ASIs it’s a wash between the two if you go for Eadept. The choice is really spell progression vs that second invocation (devil sight for instance).

I think the smart money is on the progression now.

[RogueJK]

So one obvious representative example here is the sorlock. Before it was 2 hex, 18 Sorc. Now there is a good argument for 1 hex 19 Sorc.

ASIs it’s a wash between the two if you go for Eadept. The choice is really spell progression vs that second invocation (devil sight for instance).

I think the smart money is on the progression now.

Depends. Would you rather be a Hexblade 2/Sorcerer 5 with 18 CHA, or a Hexblade 1/Sorcerer 6 with 16 CHA since you spent your Level 4 ASI on Eldritch Adept?

Continuing on, would you rather be a Hexblade 2/Sorcerer 8 with 20 CHA, or a Hexblade 1/Sorcerer 9 with 18 CHA? The tradeoff gets tougher here, because one has better spell DC and melee while the other has a higher level of spells known.

There's pros and cons either way, and the tradeoffs fluctuate as you progress throughout the levels. I think your available stats play a big part in the equation. If you have higher stats from the start, you can likely spare the extra ASI early on for Eldritch Adept. If you have lower stats early on, you may want to go for Hexblade 2 to be able to put that early ASI towards CHA, even if it means delaying your spell progression by another level.

[Hael]

Yea I would likely hold off on getting AB until I had my cha up to speed. So indeed the Asi progression is staggered here.

[Caelic]

well, again, I think the most likely configuration for this dip is variant human and/or custom race, thereby negating the need to spend an ASI. The question then becomes whether what you gain is worth the feat you might have taken instead.

[ThatoneGuy84]

I think it certainly becomes useful for specific charactor builds.
VHUMAN Sad Paladin with a decent ranged attack option for example. But I actually think most chars benifit more from just taking the 2 level dip. And not giving up your Feat to make this happen. EB scales great and is even greater with AB.

The thing I like more is actually the ability to use 2 Feats to get this combo via Magic initiate and Eldrict Adapt, but only if you dont need the ASI that badly.

[Caelic]

The thing I like more is actually the ability to use 2 Feats to get this combo via Magic initiate and Eldrict Adapt, but only if you dont need the ASI that badly.

Unfortunately, that won't work, because of the wording of EA. If the invocation has any prerequisites, you must be a warlock who meets those prerequisites. Since AB has a prerequisite of Eldritch Blast, you have to have at least one level of Warlock to take it via EA.

[Gignere]

Unfortunately, that won't work, because of the wording of EA. If the invocation has any prerequisites, you must be a warlock who meets those prerequisites. Since AB has a prerequisite of Eldritch Blast, you have to have at least one level of Warlock to take it via EA.

I think if you grab MI first you should qualify for AB.

[ThatoneGuy84]

Unfortunately, that won't work, because of the wording of EA. If the invocation has any prerequisites, you must be a warlock who meets those prerequisites. Since AB has a prerequisite of Eldritch Blast, you have to have at least one level of Warlock to take it via EA.

You take Magic Initiate first, Pick warlock, Get EB.
You have to do this anyways since you cant take it lvl 1 Paladin because they lack spellcasting which is also Prereq I believe which they dont get till level 2.

[stoutstien]

You take Magic Initiate first, Pick warlock, Get EB.
You have to do this anyways since you cant take it lvl 1 Paladin because they lack spellcasting which is also Prereq I believe which they dont get till level 2.

Doesn't work. The feat specifically stated you must met the prerequisites via warlock.

[ThatoneGuy84]

Doesn't work. The feat specifically stated you must met the prerequisites via warlock.

Ah yes I see what you mean, I should have read the wording more carefully.
I do think they worded this way to prevent the use of anything that requires a high level warlock level, like Thirsting blade ect, but I do see what you mean

[greenstone]

vHuman warlock with eldritch adept: EB + AB from the get go. Yes. :smallcool:

The downside is starting off with WIS and CHA saves, which are not the greatest.

[JediMaster]

The coolest thing about Eldritch Adept is you can change the invocation each time you level up. False Life is awesome Tier 1. Switch it out later for something better when it is False Life is not so awesome.

[KorvinStarmast]

The downside is starting off with WIS and CHA saves, which are not the greatest. Wis saves are very common. Cha saves, though for sure not as common, in the mid-to-late game can result in being mind controlled and such. :smallfrown:
That said, for any caster I like to get Resilient Con at some point ...