HELP!!!!! I need a 3.5 (CORE BOOKS ONLY) Ranger build.ARCHER.

[Knuckles915]

Guys, As the title states, I need help. Our DM is on vacation from Running our game.
HE wants to PLAY for a couple months. So we have all decided to Start a Side campaign with all new characters.
So our Stand in DM (Former Marine) has given us all the choice of what to play. And I have settled on (RANGER)

Now here is the problem. I SUCK at building characters and I need a build by Sunday.
I dont need every skill point laid out. Just a progression of Feats by level.
Something that would get me sneaking, ducking, diving, dodging and shooting mid to short range getting as much damage down range as possible.
SUGGESTED Skills would be very helpful.

Would someone be willing to Help me with this?
I need something Sneaky, and Hard hitting.(ARCHER)(AND/OR PET I know there are pets that can Tackle and hold or poison and incapacitate Mobs).
(The DM is very hack and slash sentric). With the ability to AVOID or Stay our of melee combat as much as possible.
I can handle multi class dipping but PLEASE keep it simple.
Also, I wont know what my stat points are till the Day of the game.
Not sure if he will be doing a buy in, Or roll and assign style of stat placement.
Please no prestige classes. Saving throws and bab and stuff i can figure out when I have the book in front of me.
Please feel free to suggest the best Race as well.
The reason I need help with this is that I have problems putting concepts together now.
I was a fighter for almost 18 years and have taken a lot of head shots.
Now I have problems organizing information into something useful.
I can make the build on my own, But its liable to come out terribly gimped.

[tyckspoon]

Core only kind of makes things simple here, because there aren't that many feats to even consider and Ranger gives you most of the relevant ones as bonus feats anyway, plus the rest of the stuff you want is less "here's the good way to do this" and more "this is the only way Core offers to do this."

Race: Human or one of the Elf variants (Wild or Wood Elf; Wild Elf switches the normal Elf Constitution penalty to Intelligence, Wood Elf adds +2 Str/-Intelligence, Human is just generically useful for everything.) Somewhat unusual choice: Be a Small race and take a Medium-sized Animal Companion. This lets you take advantage of mounted combat feats and improves your mobility, as you can let your mount move for you while you continue shooting.

Archery: You want Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Precise Shot. Something like:
Level 1 - Point Blank, Level 2 (Ranger bonus) Rapid, Level 3 Precise, or if you go Human you can grab both Point Blank and Precise Shot at level 1. This supports your basic functionality: You stand still and you pump arrows into things.
- Possible later multiclass - go into Fighter, pick up Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization for your preferred kind of bow. These are classically not great, but you will want as many damage bonuses as you can get and there aren't many Core options.

Sneaking/Mobility: No good Core feat support for this, it's mostly skills and magic items. Hide, Move Silent, Jump, Climb, and Tumble are your key skills. You may wish to multiclass into something that gets Tumble as in-class at some point to top that up.

Animal Companion: Unless you're using it for a mount this is probably not going to be super relevant - the delay in getting yours compared to a druid and your reduced effective level for it generally puts it too far behind the curve against enemies, especially with the limited options you have to try to optimize it within Core. Would recommend just picking an animal you personally like and using it as a roleplay prop, or something with good senses to help stand guard and alert the party when the inevitable ambush-during-camp happens.

Short version - take the basic archery feats, keep your skills up, put your best stats in Strength and Dex, pick a race that improves those stats or gives you more feats, shoot stuff.

[H_H_F_F]

Hey, friend. Archery in core 3.5 is kind of hard to do if you're going for power. Do you know what the other players in the group will be playing? Do you know to what level you expect this campaign to go? Do you have anything specific you'd like to do besides shooting arrows and being stealthy?

You'll probably be one of the less impactful combatants in your party, except in the very early levels. This is not necessarily a terrible thing, but it can feel bad sometimes. Are you ok with that?

And just to make sure, by core books only you mean PHB+DMG+MM, and that's that?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd suggest dipping in rogue a bit, myself. Adding those d6s to archery is a definite boost to your damage numbers, which (as a Core-only ranger) you desperately need. The extra skill points come in handy, too, and having an animal companion to ride for maneuverability will help keep you out of trouble while you do it. It'll also help with flanking if you need to get into melee for some reason.

You might also consider investing in large numbers of alchemical items such as Peruvian darkness powder dwarfblind and eggshell grenades (if you can swing them) to throw at foes so you can get more sneak attack. If you are crafting them yourself (and your DM hasn't houseruled it), you'll need a dip in a spellcasting class or a race with SLAs. Gnome, maybe?

[Quertus]

So our Stand in DM (Former Marine) has given us all the choice of what to play. And I have settled on (RANGER)

Archery isn't all that great core only.

Are you expecting RAW item drops and Magic Item Wal-Mart, chosen from core only?

What other options were available?

What level are you starting at?

If you hadn't settled on Ranger, I might have suggested Druid 8 / Wizard 1 / Arcane Archer. :smalltongue: (not that it's great, but hey, if you're starting at level 1, you're a Druid for 8 levels, so it's not horrible, right? And you could adapt to his playstyle more readily.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Too bad it's Core only, honestly. Unless you're only stuck with Core for your basic build? Because there are some very nice items to help you along outside of Core. A gnome calculus, for instance, is a great way to go as a secondary weapon, archery-wise, especially if you can make it self-loading and hurl alchemical items and magic potions oils.

[Yogibear41]

Maybe try to at least get PHB 2 added for a few extra options. If you can do that 4 levels of fighter for Weapon focus + weapon specialization allows you to take ranged weapon mastery, not super OP but +3 to hit and +4 damage can go along way if you do a volley build (volley being you shoot a lot of arrows each round with things like rapid shot etc.) Even if you can't PHB 2, 4 levels of fighter is probably still worth it for core only.

[Knuckles915]

Thank you all very much. All the replies are great. After reading all the replies its helping to formulate a concept.

curently, I am SURE we have Bard, Druid, And sorcerer taken. We are confined to just the core books as those are the only books we have. And BOTH DM's are very old school Purists. I wouldnt mind the additions.

So What could we do around a HALFLING/Mounted Archer? That sounds fun as hell. But Still able to stealth and GTFO when I need to. NONE of our Gear will be above +5 EVER. This DM likes for his Players to be as close to AVERAGE as possible. Allowing only a single 18 on any stat. He WANTED us all to have no stat above 16 with 12 being avg. But we pushed back on that. I honestly want to get as many attacks as I can while still being Fast and mobile. Im sure anything else can be worked with. And as for dipping into rogue Im down with the Sneaks for sure. It would add a LOT to the skill pool. MY problem is I dont know WHEN to dip into the level. Would you take rogue at lvl 1? A few levels in??? I actually Like the smaller races. Im still waiting to see if the DM will allow me to play a KOBOLD. I hope he does. But yeah that above is what I know so far.

So.... Small race, Med. mount for riding in combat while plinking with a shortbow. Heck, I wouldnt even mind being a SUPPORT for the ANIMAL companion. Sneaking around while the companion gets into melee and I hang back and target what he has occupied with sneak attacks.


Can we do anything with that?

[Gavinfoxx]

Ooff. You've a Druid in the party. That'll be tough to stay relevant. The sorcerer will either be amazing or horrible; it's a hard mode class. Do those people not have access to the internet for D&D books for some reason? This edition has been complete for a LOT of years, all the extra content that makes certain concepts actually playable rather than not playable is known and easily available to a trivial search. Do they consider 'core' to include the SRD?

[Anthrowhale]

In terms of race, Goblin (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm) may be superior to Kobold. They get 2 more strength, and +4 to move silently.

In terms of class advancement: Rogue 1/Ranger 19 seems reasonable. You can swap Ranger levels for Rogue levels providing more sneak attack damage, but reducing your to-hit by -1 for every 4 levels.
In terms of feats,
1. Point Blank Shot
Ranger 2. Rapid Shot
3. Precise Shot
6. Weapon Focus
Ranger 6. Many Shot

In terms of an animal companions, I'd suggest just investing skill ranks in Handle Animal and picking up a normal riding dog (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#dogRiding) which costs only 150gp, can transport a small creature, and is quite a mean combatant at low levels.

At higher levels, the ability to enchant the bow, the arrow, and use the greater magic weapon spell can make a core archer able to pierce damage reduction pretty effectively. This compensates somewhat for a relatively low damage output. Another good trick is to combine a ring of blinking with the Seeking enchantment.

You might ask to at least use SRD content (https://www.d20srd.org/index.htm) as well, since it is freely available and opens up some good possibilities for you. In particular, a Rogue 1/Sneak Attack (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) Thug (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) Fighter gives nearly-full BAB and slightly better than rogue sneak attack. For some strategies it's also useful to pick up Greater Manyshot (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot).

[Particle_Man]

If your dm allows, goblin is pretty nice. Small, sneaky, darkvision, 30’ on foot, tends to ride big wolves.

[Knuckles915]

Ooff. You've a Druid in the party. That'll be tough to stay relevant. The sorcerer will either be amazing or horrible; it's a hard mode class. Do those people not have access to the internet for D&D books for some reason? This edition has been complete for a LOT of years, all the extra content that makes certain concepts actually playable rather than not playable is known and easily available to a trivial search. Do they consider 'core' to include the SRD?

The Trick is Im trying to NOT be relevant. And the sorcerer has been playing since D&D was played out of a stapled together paper pamphlet style Guide. He is 72 IRL. We are a bunch of old men. I think the youngest of us is what? 36?

[Knuckles915]

In terms of race,Goblin may be superior to Kobold. They get 2 more strength, and +4 to move silently.

].

Do you mean they get +2 Dex???


Goblins As Characters

Goblin characters possess the following racial traits.

-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma.

[Anthrowhale]

Do you mean they get +2 Dex???
Kobolds (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm) get that, but they suffer in the other physical stats: -4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Goblin characters possess the following racial traits.

-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma.And since Small characters automatically gain -2 Str and +2 Dex just for being Small, that means they have an aggregate -2 Cha with no other actual racial ability score bonuses to balance it out.

[Knuckles915]

Guessing with no Real bonuses to being a Gobbo, I should probably just go Halfling.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Guessing with no Real bonuses to being a Gobbo, I should probably just go Halfling.You might consider some type of gnome, so you can craft your own alchemical items with Craft (Alchemy). Gotta have those SLAs, since only spellcasters can use chemistry (for some unfathomable reason).

[Maat Mons]

I'm personally not a big fan of stealth. Unless the other party members are also stealth, sneaking around means going off on your own. Going off on your own significantly increases your chances of dying.

So you're only limited to core books because no one in your group has bought other books? How would you feel about content freely available on the Wizards of the Coast website? There's a Cityscape web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) that contain a few nice things for Rangers.

One of them is Urban Companion. It replaces your Animal Companion, which already cant fight, with something smarter and smaller. So you can get a pet raven with humanoid intelligence and the ability to speak. Send it ahead into unknown territory, and it can come back and tell you what it saw. Sure, the Sorcerer can do the same thing, but he loses XP if his pet dies, and you don't. Also, if his pet dies, he has to wait a year and a day to get a new one, but you only have to wait a day. And sure, the Druid also gets a disposable pet, but his has only animal intelligence and can't talk, so it's not a good scout. And his is a good fighter, so taking a bird for scouting would be a waste of it's full potential. Your class feature sucks, so using it on scouting isn't any kind of waste.

Now, you'll note that my proposed change deprives you of your free mount. But remember, you can just buy a mount with money. A riding dog gained from Ranger isn't any better than a riding dog bought with money until Ranger level 8. And the improvements gained at that level don't let the Ranger's dog deal meaningful damage or survive the attention of enemies anyway.

If you want a mount better than a standard, run of the mill riding dog, what you want is the Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat, also freely available on the Wizards of the Coast website.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm personally not a big fan of stealth. Unless the other party members are also stealth, sneaking around means going off on your own. Going off on your own significantly increases your chances of dying.

So you're only limited to core books because no one in your group has bought other books? How would you feel about content freely available on the Wizards of the Coast website? There's a Cityscape web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) that contain a few nice things for Rangers.

One of them is Urban Companion. It replaces your Animal Companion, which already cant fight, with something smarter and smaller. So you can get a pet raven with humanoid intelligence and the ability to speak. Send it ahead into unknown territory, and it can come back and tell you what it saw. Sure, the Sorcerer can do the same thing, but he loses XP if his pet dies, and you don't. Also, if his pet dies, he has to wait a year and a day to get a new one, but you only have to wait a day. And sure, the Druid also gets a disposable pet, but his has only animal intelligence and can't talk, so it's not a good scout. And his is a good fighter, so taking a bird for scouting would be a waste of it's full potential. Your class feature sucks, so using it on scouting isn't any kind of waste.

Now, you'll note that my proposed change deprives you of your free mount. But remember, you can just buy a mount with money. A riding dog gained from Ranger isn't any better than a riding dog bought with money until Ranger level 8. And the improvements gained at that level don't let the Ranger's dog deal meaningful damage or survive the attention of enemies anyway.

If you want a mount better than a standard, run of the mill riding dog, what you want is the Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat, also freely available on the Wizards of the Coast website.Well, I mean, if you're going for that (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)...

Also, the entire SRD is up for grabs, as well. Including psionics (https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicRacesClassesSkillsSpells.htm) and various alternate class features for rangers and rogues (https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm) (and other classes, as well).

[Melcar]

Guys, As the title states, I need help. Our DM is on vacation from Running our game.
HE wants to PLAY for a couple months. So we have all decided to Start a Side campaign with all new characters.
So our Stand in DM (Former Marine) has given us all the choice of what to play. And I have settled on (RANGER)

Now here is the problem. I SUCK at building characters and I need a build by Sunday.
I dont need every skill point laid out. Just a progression of Feats by level.
Something that would get me sneaking, ducking, diving, dodging and shooting mid to short range getting as much damage down range as possible.
SUGGESTED Skills would be very helpful.

Would someone be willing to Help me with this?
I need something Sneaky, and Hard hitting.(ARCHER)(AND/OR PET I know there are pets that can Tackle and hold or poison and incapacitate Mobs).
(The DM is very hack and slash sentric). With the ability to AVOID or Stay our of melee combat as much as possible.
I can handle multi class dipping but PLEASE keep it simple.
Also, I wont know what my stat points are till the Day of the game.
Not sure if he will be doing a buy in, Or roll and assign style of stat placement.
Please no prestige classes. Saving throws and bab and stuff i can figure out when I have the book in front of me.
Please feel free to suggest the best Race as well.
The reason I need help with this is that I have problems putting concepts together now.
I was a fighter for almost 18 years and have taken a lot of head shots.
Now I have problems organizing information into something useful.
I can make the build on my own, But its liable to come out terribly gimped.

So out of the 100 books that has been made for 3.X, your DM only wants to use 3? Purist you say... I would call that severely narrow minded. I hope you can persuade him to open of for more books, because that would surely be more interesting. Does he even know how many books there are?

[Arkhios]

If core only includes both Divine Rules and Psionic Rules as seen in SRD, then I would honestly recommend taking Sharp-Shooting (http://dndsrd.net/divineFeats.html#sharp-shooting), Greater Manyshot (http://dndsrd.net/psionicFeats.html#greater-manyshot), and (especially if you take the rogue dip) Deadly Precision (http://dndsrd.net/psionicFeats.html#deadly-precision) feats.

Do note that, although two of these feats are in Expanded Psionics Handbook and one in the Deities & Demigods book, they are General Feats, not Psionic nor Divine Feats, and thus don't require your character to be a psionic character nor divine character (although, as a ranger, you do count as divine character).

PS. dndsrd.net is equivalent to the more famous d20srd.org, with the difference that dndsrd.net is not (yet) infested with those incredibly annoying commercial banners and continuous pop-ups.

[Knuckles915]

Unfortunately, BOTH DM's ideas about the Game are "If we dont have a paper book in front of us, we wont use it."
Also, My ideas for stealth use are pretty much for slipping in and out of Combat. Hit and run tactics. Trust me, We have done this sort of thing before.
For guys who are hard arses about the rules we use, When it comes to actual play they get pretty lax. So Im still building a concept.

But No, none of the other books besides the core will be used. So, Rogue/Ranger.

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus
Many Shot
Greater Many shot.

Animal handling skill and animal empathy. Get something bad ass to ride in and/or out of combat.

Get a ring of blinking with the Seeking enchantment.

Any other Feats I should think about? Im going to see if i can find a good online generator to set this all up.

[Arkhios]

Unfortunately, BOTH DM's ideas about the Game are "If we dont have a paper book in front of us, we wont use it."
Also, My ideas for stealth use are pretty much for slipping in and out of Combat. Hit and run tactics. Trust me, We have done this sort of thing before.
For guys who are hard arses about the rules we use, When it comes to actual play they get pretty lax. So Im still building a concept.

But No, none of the other books besides the core will be used. So, Rogue/Ranger.

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus
Many Shot
Greater Many shot.

Animal handling skill and animal empathy. Get something bad ass to ride in and/or out of combat.

Get a ring of blinking with the Seeking enchantment.

Any other Feats I should think about? Im going to see if i can find a good online generator to set this all up.

I believe you meant Greater Precise Shot (because Greater Manyshot is from a book you, apparently, don't have physical access to?), so I fixed the list below:

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus
Manyshot
Greater Precise Shot

The bolded feats you get from Ranger as bonus feats, and you get a total of 7 standard feats, or 8 if you're human, (at least up to level 20) so if you take the other three feats, you still have room for 4 or 5 more feats.

Honestly, the feats Stealthy and Skill Focus in either or both Hide/Move Silently would go a long way if you intend to use hit and run tactics at range, hiding after each shot. So that's 2 or 3 feats to take. Improved Initiative is never nothing to scoff at, and Quick Draw might come in handy, especially if you need to adapt to changing circumstances between melee and ranged combat. And of course, Animal Affinity would help a bit with your Animal Handling and Ride checks.

[H_H_F_F]

Stealth is not going to work very well if you're on a riding dog, since they're going to have a hard time remaining quiet. Keep that in mind.

Otherwise, yeah - I'd start up with point blank shot going for precise shot, and getting rapid shot ASAP. Maybe start out with rogue 1/ranger 2? I would sure go for improved initiative earlier than weapon focus if I'm dipping rogue.

I hope you guys have fun! D&D is a role playing game, and which rules you have access to doesn't matter that much, IMO.

That being said: have you guys, as a group, considered moving over to 5E? It would be a big change, for sure, but it seems that "keep it simple" is very much the philosophy you guys have regarding rules and character building, and 5E just does that better than 3.5, and it's an extremely easy system to learn and master.

[Anthrowhale]

W.r.t. race, the -2 to charisma of a Goblin doesn't sound very important to your character concept. Halfling is a reasonable alternative, but relative to a Goblin you are hit with -10 to movement and either -2 to move silently and loss of darkvision (for the standard halfling) or -4 to move silently (for a deep halfling (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfling.htm#deepHalfling)). The halfling's bonus to thrown weapon attacks is useful early on (before magic weapons are a thing), and the bonus to saves is always useful.

[Darrin]

Unfortunately, BOTH DM's ideas about the Game are "If we dont have a paper book in front of us, we wont use it."


Does that extend to online content? The online 3.5 SRD contains quite a few variants and alternative class features that could help (I'm looking at you, Whirling Frenzy Barbarian...). There's also a few feats in the psionics/divine section that could be useful (such as Greater Manyshot).



So, Rogue/Ranger.

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus
Many Shot
Greater Many shot.


Hmm. Well, I'm tempted to throw a Fighter dip in there for feats, but that might involve multiclass penalties down the road. Are multiclass penalties being enforced?

In general, starting off with Rogue maximizes your skill points (although starting with Ranger isn't exactly shabby, either). One of the most effective rogue builds in Core is a "Flask Rogue", combining Quickdraw with thrown weapons + sneak attack damage. Halfling loses out on the bonus feat, but you do get the +1 attack bonus for thrown weapons.

For a build stub, I'm leaning towards Rogue 4/Ranger 16. If multiclass penalties are being ignored, maybe Rogue 4/Fighter 2/Ranger 14. Best start might be Rogue 2/Ranger 4, but my concern there is you don't get an animal companion until 6th level, and at that point a wolf/riding dog is kinda too squishy to be on the front line.

If online sources are allowed, then consider picking up a Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) instead. A Wild Cohort scales up faster than an ranger's animal companion, so they are more likely to be less fragile in combat. Another option might be Wilderness Rogue (from the Unearthed Arcana section of the SRD), which can start level 1 with 4 ranks in Handle Animal and just buy a trained riding dog as a mount.

If online sources are out, a Flask Rogue/Ranger...

Race: Halfling
1) Rogue 1. Feat: PB Shot.
2) Rogue 2.
3) Ranger 1. Feat: Quickdraw. Bonus: Track.
4) Ranger 2. Bonus: Two-Weapon Fighting.
5) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance.
6) Ranger 4. Feat: Precise Shot.
7) Ranger 5.
8) Ranger 6. Bonus: Improved TWF.

So, here's the thing about TWF and thrown weapons... a thrown weapon can be your "offhand" weapon. So instead of going Rapid Shot/Manyshot (just one extra attack), if you go the TWF route, you get up to three offhand attacks with your flasks. At level 8, you can draw and throw 4 flasks per round against touch AC. Against a flanked/flat-footed target, four flasks of acid + sneak attack is 8d6 damage.

(There are alchemical items that don't splash, but they aren't in Core. If you're worried about splash damage, a backpack full of small-sized tridents can get the same damage, but that's against normal AC.)

After that... Rogue +2, take Rapid Shot at 9th for a 5th attack, finish off with Ranger +10.

[liquidformat]

Race: Human or one of the Elf variants (Wild or Wood Elf; Wild Elf switches the normal Elf Constitution penalty to Intelligence, Wood Elf adds +2 Str/-Intelligence, Human is just generically useful for everything.)


No they don't, they have +4 Dex -2Con -2Int

[H_H_F_F]

No they don't, they have +4 Dex -2Con -2Int
I believe you're mistaken on that front.



+2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence. These adjustments replace the high elf's ability score adjustments.

Edit: you may have been thinking about wood elf, which gets Str and Dex but loses Con and Int.

[liquidformat]

I believe you're mistaken on that front.



Edit: you may have been thinking about wood elf, which gets Str and Dex but loses Con and Int.

I think you are looking at an old version of the MM, if you refer to the SRD Wild Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#wildElf), it clearly state the stats shown for Gray, Wood, and Wild are all in addition.

never mind I need to read, why would it say right above in addition then say replace, the only other adjustment was favored class which would also replace, that is lame.

[noob]

Usually what is great in core for archery is getting PAO(from a scroll or an ally) as fast as possible to get a shape with great characteristics for archery(you will still not be very good).
A single level dip in cleric can be great even with just core domains.(while a single classed cleric is likely the optimal archer in core it would fail at being a ranger)
You should try to get a composite longbow that corresponds to your strength unless you get a bow with magical modifiers that would outperform composite longbows (like a +1 distance ghost touch seeking speed wounding bow).

[H_H_F_F]

never mind I need to read, why would it say right above in addition then say replace, the only other adjustment was favored class which would also replace, that is lame.

Wizards have default templates for these things, it sure can be confusing. I don't blame you.

[Quertus]

Trying to *not* be useful? That's an… unusual request.

Perhaps consider being an Ogre, or a Half-Dragon (Elf). Those would make for some pretty terrible archers.

Sadly, you're unlikely to start with enough gold at level 1 to get your mount right off. But, when you do, don't forget to take Mounted Archer, to reduce your penalties.

If your GM isn't likely to give good loot, Arcane Archer is actually a Prestige Class to consider, as it enchants your arrows for you.

For humor value… since your mount can't really stealth… and since you can't start with your mount anyway… have you considered a war rhino? The point here is less "mobility", and more "discourage foes from closing to melee range". The rhino is in core, it's just the *price* that you'll need to borrow from elsewhere or have the GM homebrew. But Goblin, Elf, or Ogre, it'll certainly be memorable.

[liquidformat]

Usually what is great in core for archery is getting PAO(from a scroll or an ally) as fast as possible to get a shape with great characteristics for archery(you will still not be very good).
A single level dip in cleric can be great even with just core domains.(while a single classed cleric is likely the optimal archer in core it would fail at being a ranger)
You should try to get a composite longbow that corresponds to your strength unless you get a bow with magical modifiers that would outperform composite longbows (like a +1 distance ghost touch seeking speed wounding bow).

If you are going to dip Cleric, Strength domain is a good choice to pickup enlarge person, travel is good for the freedom of movement granted power and war is good for weapon focus. Out of the 3 in core only I would probably go Strength and Travel.

If you were going Cleric only archer build then Travel and Trickery are a great combo to pickup hide and invisibility from trickery and fly from travel. you will want to leverage Divine Power and Righteous Might

[gijoemike]

In true core only, any sort of damage reduction (DR) wrecks and ruins ranged builds as the flat damage reduction makes each arrow near worthless. Those extra books are really needed to make an archer shine. First off, you need multiple materials of arrows with a magic bow to bypass DR.

To compensate for this, why don't you play a medium sized switch hitter? Go ranger and take the archery weapon style, but take some of your feats for a melee weapon. It will give you the option to change up tactics if needed.

First 2 rounds of combat shoot arrows, let your companions( animal included ) close into melee. Now they are in the way providing cover to the badguys, you don't have precise shot early on in your char life so shooting arrows is a bad idea.

Then in next round, drop the bow to the ground move forward pulling out a greatsword/falchion and power attack smash the same baddie your animal is in melee with.

A great sword will give you 2d6 + 1.5x str. plenty to bypass DR monsters. You need str for the strength bow anyway. below is a 28 standard pt buy w/o racial mods. Argue for a 32 and increase Str and wis 1 pt. Remember you don't need* 18s as a switch hitter.


str 15
dex 16,
con 12
int 10
wis 12
cha 8

+1 magical longbow (+2 str) = +4 to hit / d8 + 3 damage
masterwork Greatsword +3 to hit / 2d6 + 3 damage ( notice the GS is more damage than a magical arrow)


Level 1: point Blank Shot - is required for most other feats, Track - via Ranger.
Level 2: Rapid shot - via ranger
Level 3: Power Attack, Endurance via Ranger.
Level 4:
level 5:
level 6: Precise Shot, Manyshot via Ranger.
Level 9: Weapon focus ( fav melee weapon)


As a human take Precise Shot at level 1. You are an archer for 1 or 2 rounds (the important ones, then you assist the rogue/striker in taking out chum). If you really hate waiting until lvl 6 switch Precise and Power attack.

[Zaq]

As has been mentioned, ranger is terrible in core-only (honestly they're one of my least favorite 3.5 classes in general) and archery is ill-supported, but if that's what you want then it's what you want.

Have you looked at trying to qualify for arcane archer? It's not exactly a power class, but it's probably going to add more effectiveness than the late levels of core-only ranger would add. You could take a dip in assassin rather than a dip in wizard or sorcerer to qualify, if that's fun for you. Hide and MS are in-class for ranger, and cross-classing disguise isn't the end of the world. You'd have to be evil, but you can probably manage that. So a rough sketch might look like this:

Ranger 1 (feat: PBS; bonus feat: Track)
Ranger 2 (bonus feat: Rapid Shot)
Ranger 3 (feat: Precise Shot; bonus feat: Endurance)
Ranger 4
Ranger 5
Assassin 1 (feat: Weapon Focus)
Assassin 2
Arcane archer 1-X

Manyshot isn't good; you're not missing anything by losing it. Honestly ranger 3-5 also isn't giving you anything you can't live without either; you could probably get away with taking three or four levels of rogue instead (delaying entry to arcane archer by one level but gaining better skills and sneak attack) or a few levels in barbarian (remember that composite bows benefit from a bonus to strength; fast movement and uncanny dodge are also more useful than a non-scaling pet and a second racism bonus). Even a few levels in fighter would actually probably be stronger than more ranger, though the loss of skill points would sting. Maybe ranger 3, fighter 2 (maybe start down the Shot on the Run tree? It's bad, but everything archery-related in core is bad), assassin 2, arcane archer X.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As has been mentioned, ranger is terrible in core-only (honestly they're one of my least favorite 3.5 classes in general) and archery is ill-supported, but if that's what you want then it's what you want.

Have you looked at trying to qualify for arcane archer? It's not exactly a power class, but it's probably going to add more effectiveness than the late levels of core-only ranger would add. You could take a dip in assassin rather than a dip in wizard or sorcerer to qualify, if that's fun for you. Hide and MS are in-class for ranger, and cross-classing disguise isn't the end of the world. You'd have to be evil, but you can probably manage that. So a rough sketch might look like this:

Ranger 1 (feat: PBS; bonus feat: Track)
Ranger 2 (bonus feat: Rapid Shot)
Ranger 3 (feat: Precise Shot; bonus feat: Endurance)
Ranger 4
Ranger 5
Assassin 1 (feat: Weapon Focus)
Assassin 2
Arcane archer 1-X

Manyshot isn't good; you're not missing anything by losing it. Honestly ranger 3-5 also isn't giving you anything you can't live without either; you could probably get away with taking three or four levels of rogue instead (delaying entry to arcane archer by one level but gaining better skills and sneak attack) or a few levels in barbarian (remember that composite bows benefit from a bonus to strength; fast movement and uncanny dodge are also more useful than a non-scaling pet and a second racism bonus). Even a few levels in fighter would actually probably be stronger than more ranger, though the loss of skill points would sting. Maybe ranger 3, fighter 2 (maybe start down the Shot on the Run tree? It's bad, but everything archery-related in core is bad), assassin 2, arcane archer X.Protip to the OP (not you, Zaq): if you go Evil, don't be a backstabbing jerk to the party. Be affably evil, or at least someone who's a team player. Even sociopaths can be aware of how one is much stronger in a cohesive group than alone, so make sure you work well with the party. Not that you don't know that already, but a surprisingly large number of people don't.

[Feldar]

Regarding dipping into cleric...

Travel domain FoM is not true FoM. It still has good spells if you're going full-on cleric, but it's not the end-all-be-all of domains.

Trickery is great if you're going stealthy.

War is good if you're going into cleric just for the domain dip.

Luck is phenomenal -- that once a day reroll can save entire encounters.

Magic is great -- the versatility of using arcane spell completion items is awesome. I would not take Strength at all, as the domain power is rather useless for an archer. I would instead take the Magic domain and use a wand of enlarge person. It's the same action, so why not take a domain that gives you more flexibility to use items?

Unless you're just determined to be a ranger, I would go fighter/cleric to build an archer. Two levels of fighter gets you all the essential archery feats and cleric gets you the juiciest archery spell of all, righteous might. It also gives you Knowledge (the Planes) as a class skill, letting you pick the right arrow more quickly to overcome that DR.

If you do go cleric/fighter, do not let the party dictate what your actions are going to be -- do your build. Don't let them tell you that you have to follow party members around healing them.

[Anthrowhale]

I like Darrin's flask thrower build. There are probably some monster in core who are not vulnerable to acid, fire, or holy water, but it should not be many. The cost of flasks might be an issue in the beginning, but it's a fun concept that sometimes can be effective where others are not.

An example of a core-only level 20 fighter archer is here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=22350680&postcount=1481). Ranger or Rogue/Ranger can generally do it better. Based on this, I disagree that damage reduction is a serious issue for archers. Unlike almost all other martial types, they can freely change the material by stocking up on a wide variety of arrow types.

[noob]

Due to being core only you will at some point run out of good archery feats and at that point things like blindfighting and iron will becomes much more interesting.
At that point even weapon focus: composite longbow might start being interesting.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Due to being core only you will at some point run out of good archery feats and at that point things like blindfighting and iron will becomes much more interesting.
At that point even weapon focus: composite longbow might start being interesting.The seeking weapon property on the bow (or arrows) is much better than Blind Fight. Why waste a feat for a reroll on a concealment check when you can ignore the concealment altogether?

[Feldar]

In terms of magic items you should aim to obtain:

1. Quiver of Ehlonna
2. Magic bow. Depending on nature of the campaign, you'll probably want the Holy enchantment on it. At some point you'll probably want Seeking on it as well. Resist the urge to stack up the elemental procs -- the cost goes up fast and at higher levels they generally don't help much.
3. You might as well shoot for a magic two-handed sword or similar weapon, since odds are you won't be able to do entire fights in just ranged combat.

[noob]

The seeking weapon property on the bow (or arrows) is much better than Blind Fight. Why waste a feat for a reroll on a concealment check when you can ignore the concealment altogether?

It also improves movement speed when in places where you can not see.
ex: an opponent casts darkness on you then you go at like 75% of your speed instead of half.
And seeking is not guaranteed: it is a cool modifier but we do not know if we have magical marts yet.

[Feldar]

An example of a core-only level 20 fighter archer is here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=22350680&postcount=1481). Ranger or Rogue/Ranger can generally do it better. Based on this, I disagree that damage reduction is a serious issue for archers. Unlike almost all other martial types, they can freely change the material by stocking up on a wide variety of arrow types.

I fully agree with this! Archers can react mid-combat action to DR, swapping to another type of ammunition with no penalty.

[Feldar]

It also improves movement speed when in places where you can not see.
ex: an opponent casts darkness on you then you got at like 75% of your speed instead of half.

There is ZERO chance that a player at my table could get away with that unless the bow was an intelligent item.

[noob]

There is ZERO chance that a player at my table could get away with that unless the bow was an intelligent item.

I was talking about blindsight not about the seeking modifier.
I was arguing in favour of taking blindsight(there is not exactly a lot of good feats in core althrough all the two important save booster feats are quite great options without competition from the other manuals(great fortitude and iron will: reflex saves are mostly to avoid damage and thus less important)).

[Feldar]

I was talking about blindsight not about the seeking modifier.
I was arguing in favour of taking blindsight(there is not exactly a lot of good feats in core althrough all the two important save booster feats are quite great options without competition from the other manuals(great fortitude and iron will: reflex saves are mostly to avoid damage and thus less important)).

Apologies, I misread -- I thought you were referring to the Seeking weapon ability.

[Ghen]

Soooo, haven't heard anyone mention poisons yet. Put some ranks into craft poisonmaking and you've got a nice, controversial boost to each shot. I don't mean controversial just in terms of roleplay ethics, oh no! Poisonmaking can be dangerous to the character applying/using it and is fairly expensive over the course of your career. However, if you're really desperate for a damage boost, poisons may be the way to go. Especially for your hit-and-run skirmisher archetype that you're going for.

[Maat Mons]

Minor Creation could get you quite a bit of certain poisons. In core only, it's only available to level 7+ Wizards and level 8+ Sorcerers though.

The poison use ability or just being immune to poison can negate the dangers. Or Delay Poison is an hour per level, and I think hitting yourself with one Neutralize Poison right before the duration of Delay Poison expires will probably take care of all the accidental exposures you accumulated since getting the spell cast on you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Soooo, haven't heard anyone mention poisons yet. Put some ranks into craft poisonmaking and you've got a nice, controversial boost to each shot. I don't mean controversial just in terms of roleplay ethics, oh no! Poisonmaking can be dangerous to the character applying/using it and is fairly expensive over the course of your career. However, if you're really desperate for a damage boost, poisons may be the way to go. Especially for your hit-and-run skirmisher archetype that you're going for.Poisons cost WAY too much for their effect. As Maat Mons said, however, using magic to get them could net you them for free.

[bean illus]

It's super important to know what levels you're likely to play.

Archery fails quickly in core, and more quickly without magic. What kind of access to magic will you have (scrolls, wands, magic market)?

If you want to stay relevant past 8-10 levels you'll need more magic than a straight ranger. You will. But, you'll want improved precise shot no later than 11-13.

To be good at stealth you need listen and spot, as well as hide and move silent. If they aren't all 4 near max, then stay out of enemy territory.

With those things said. I'm going to reccomended Cleric. Cleric can both boost your damage, and overcome DR. They also have Lesser Restoration, which insures you can always use your fancy composite bow.

Their spells are usually pretty straightforward, and easy to play. One thing to remember with cleric is the benchmark is 7+ levels, for the spell Divine Power.

Fighters make good archers, because of the fighter feat access. They lack spells, and skills. Most folk take as few levels as possible, but if you need feats ...

Rangers are great, unless you compare them to anyone else, lol. Their best spells aren't in core. But if you go ranger 6, you might as well get the combat style pretty quick. I like to pick up Manyshot before 9th, at the latest.

I might just try Ranger 6/ Cleric 7/

Go straight ranger for 6 levels, when ranger is fun. Then pick up 2 domains and some combat spells.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It's super important to know what levels you're likely to play.

Archery fails quickly in core, and more quickly without magic. What kind of access to magic will you have (scrolls, wands, magic market)?

If you want to stay relevant past 8-10 levels you'll need more magic than a straight ranger. You will. But, you'll want improved precise shot no later than 11-13.

To be good at stealth you need listen and spot, as well as hide and move silent. If they aren't all 4 near max, then stay out of enemy territory.

With those things said. I'm going to reccomended Cleric. Cleric can both boost your damage, and overcome DR. They also have Lesser Restoration, which insures you can always use your fancy composite bow.

Their spells are usually pretty straightforward, and easy to play. One thing to remember with cleric is the benchmark is 7+ levels, for the spell Divine Power.

Fighters make good archers, because of the fighter feat access. They lack spells, and skills. Most folk take as few levels as possible, but if you need feats ...

Rangers are great, unless you compare them to anyone else, lol. Their best spells aren't in core. But if you go ranger 6, you might as well get the combat style pretty quick. I like to pick up Manyshot before 9th, at the latest.

I might just try Ranger 6/ Cleric 7/

Go straight ranger for 6 levels, when ranger is fun. Then pick up 2 domains and some combat spells.If the OP can swing it (assuming the only problem is book access), maybe he could print out the prestige ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger)?

[liquidformat]

Soooo, haven't heard anyone mention poisons yet. Put some ranks into craft poisonmaking and you've got a nice, controversial boost to each shot. I don't mean controversial just in terms of roleplay ethics, oh no! Poisonmaking can be dangerous to the character applying/using it and is fairly expensive over the course of your career. However, if you're really desperate for a damage boost, poisons may be the way to go. Especially for your hit-and-run skirmisher archetype that you're going for.

Isn't craft poison not technically core?

[smetzger]

Others have commented that Archer is weak. Don't let that get you down, in a core only game an archer can still work.
1) I think a Rogue 1/Ranger X could work - gets you Sneak Attack and trapfinding (which looks like your groups could use). Just find the trap, don't worry about disabling it (just let the Druid summon something to trigger the trap for you).
If you go Elf and you keep putting skills points into search you will find secret doors without looking - quite useful, plus this would allow you to use a longbow at 1st level when taking Rogue.

2) Feats are pretty obvious.

3) Animal companion will not be useful in a fight as it will be too fragile. So, go for flavor or as a scout (hawk etc, but the Druid will probably be able to cover this).

4) At every opportunity get arrows with special materials.... silver, cold iron, adamantine, etc. Just as a wizard has a spell for every circumstance, you should have an arrow for every circumstance.
Boost up your knowledge skills so that you know what arrows to use against a monster

[liquidformat]

Rogue 2/Ranger 3-6/Assassin/Arcane Archer 2 is a pretty good build, rogue 2 nets you a point of bab and ref save and evasion, I would say ranger 3 and ranger 6 are the break points you want to look for before jumping into Assassin and then take the Arcane Archer dip as soon as you qualify before hopping back into assassin. It is probably one of the better core only ranger builds along with cleric.

[bean illus]

If the OP can swing it (assuming the only problem is book access), maybe he could print out the prestige ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger)?

I don't know if OP is returning, but ...

I've wondered if the DMs, who seem about my age (i also played the paper pamphlet versions), suffer the same lack of full understanding and appreciation of what the
SRD: the D20 System Reference Document (https://www.d20srd.org/) and the
OGL: the Open Gaming License (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License) are, and do, and why.

But also, the publishers of DND 3.5 have released, in the license the full minimum rule set needed to play the game. Certainly, part of the purpose is legalese.

I note that #5 states the
Contents of the OGL (https://www.d20srd.org/ogl.htm) include more than the Players Handbook, the monsters, DMG PRCs, etc. Among what it also includes are
D20 Modern (http://www.d20resources.com/),
Mutants & Mastermind (https://www.d20herosrd.com/) and,
Swords of Our Fathers (https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/60864/swords-our-fathers).

The first 2 are not at all dnd, and the third is published by a 2nd party (not Wizards of the Coast).

BUT THE LAST totally separate book listed in the OGL content is 100% dnd 3.5, 100% first party publish, 100% useful, and popular.


Unearthed Arcana (https://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm) is included in the OGL, but why? It's way more than the minimum needed to play. Why, out of 140+ 3.0/5 books, why include just this one?

It's because they want you to have it.
It's because they felt that no other contribution would increase character building, and creativity more then these variant rules. And that history would love them for it.

The SRD is literally 3.5 Core 2.0! It's how the publishers expect the world to use core.

Maybe, ... maybe like me at first, the dms for the OP don't quite see it that way. Maybe OP could show them around, and highlight how tidily it's laid out, and HOW MANY wonderful options it includes. It's a gift. All legit. All free.

[vasilidor]

Has no one brought up strength bows? with a good starting strength and some magic boost to it you can get a +3 or better to damage (every point of damage counts for core only archers). multiclassing into fighter seems like a no brainer for getting weapon specialization and maybe improved crit for a bow. also since this is core only, I doubt a lot of your suggestions will actually be usable.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Has no one brought up strength bows? with a good starting strength and some magic boost to it you can get a +3 or better to damage (every point of damage counts for core only archers). multiclassing into fighter seems like a no brainer for getting weapon specialization and maybe improved crit for a bow. also since this is core only, I doubt a lot of your suggestions will actually be usable.Four levels of fighter for +4 damage, whereas one level of rogue is +1d6 damage (average: +3.5 damage).

At least outside of Core, fighters get access to decent feats. Core-only? Not so much.

[vasilidor]

still, strength bow is not a bad investment for the cost. and the sneak attack is highly situational (pending DM and your characters hide bonus).
otherwise, here is a complete list of all relevant feats to archery in core.
Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Shot On The Run
shot on the run also requires dodge and mobility. outside of these and feats that just help with weapon attacks in general, there really isn't anything there to discuss and as a ranger you get enough to get all of those.

[Particle_Man]

Mounted archery is in core if you go the mounted route (mounted combat is a prerequisite that might keep the mount alive for longer).

Oh and you should ask the dm about the common “baddies” that your ranger would know about so that the favoured enemy ability sees some use.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could wear a hat with a perch on it, have your pet raven sit on it as a "saddle," and use its Mounted Combat and ranks in Ride to negate hits for you.

[noob]

still, strength bow is not a bad investment for the cost. and the sneak attack is highly situational (pending DM and your characters hide bonus).
otherwise, here is a complete list of all relevant feats to archery in core.
Point Blank Shot
Far Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Shot On The Run
shot on the run also requires dodge and mobility. outside of these and feats that just help with weapon attacks in general, there really isn't anything there to discuss and as a ranger you get enough to get all of those.

I already mentioned composite longbows.
But as usual if you have a worse weapon with good enchantments usually the enchanted weapon outperforms the non magical one.

[Feldar]

I just assumed that strength bows were understood for an archer.

Core only ranger archer path is a bit too MAD, which is why I thought cleric/fighter was a better combo.

As for all the folks posting to go assassin, I think that assumes that the campaign will allow evil characters. Many don't for a variety of reasons (desire for a heroic campaign, not everyone willing to play evil, and keeping RL relations friendly are three excellent ones). Maybe I missed that the campaign is allowing evil though...

[OracleofWuffing]

Would someone be willing to Help me with this?
I need something Sneaky, and Hard hitting.(ARCHER)(AND/OR PET I know there are pets that can Tackle and hold or poison and incapacitate Mobs).
(The DM is very hack and slash sentric). With the ability to AVOID or Stay our of melee combat as much as possible.

I honestly want to get as many attacks as I can while still being Fast and mobile. Im sure anything else can be worked with. And as for dipping into rogue Im down with the Sneaks for sure. It would add a LOT to the skill pool.
:smallconfused: Are you sure you want to be a Ranger, or do you want to be a ranged combatant? There could be some syngergy if the Bard in your party picks up Grease (Alternatively wands of Grease, but eh), and just go straight Rogue, no Ranger, for Sneak Attack damage. Evasion and Uncanny Dodge would probably be more helpful than Tracking, Endurance, and Favored Enemy. It means you sacrifice the "Many attacks" bit, but you get stronger hits while being the sneaky and mobile class. And, well, I guess you lose out on Ranger spells. Those valuable, necessary, important core-only Ranger spells. :smalltongue:

[Particle_Man]

As for all the folks posting to go assassin, I think that assumes that the campaign will allow evil characters. Many don't for a variety of reasons (desire for a heroic campaign, not everyone willing to play evil, and keeping RL relations friendly are three excellent ones). Maybe I missed that the campaign is allowing evil though...

Also, the OP said “Please no prestige classes”. Otherwise I might plug the core-only horizon tripper build with archer spice as a switch-hitter.

[noob]

You can have 1 or 2 levels in a lot of classes as long as ranger is a favoured class without multiclassing penalty.
So you can be a fighter 1/barbarian 1/cleric 1/rogue 1/ranger X for example.

[Arkhios]

You can have 1 or 2 levels in a lot of classes as long as ranger is a favoured class without multiclassing penalty.
So you can be a fighter 1/barbarian 1/cleric 1/rogue 1/ranger X for example.

Which, with core-only races, would be impossible without being either half-elf or human, sadly. And the OP seemed to have settled on being a halfling.

Technically, of course, if OP managed to convince their DM to allow a complete print of SRD as paper-source, then yes, they could go with wood elf as well.

[H_H_F_F]

Technically, of course, if OP managed to convince their DM to allow a complete print of SRD as paper-source, then yes, they could go with wood elf as well.

They've got the Monster Manual, they can play a wood elf.

[Arkhios]

They've got the Monster Manual, they can play a wood elf.

Oof, right you are. Somehow remembered the subrace was from somewhere else.

[Eldariel]

I'd honestly just go Ranger 1/Wizard and put some magical enhancements on the bow and maybe eventually go into Eldritch Knight (I know you said "no PRCs" but that only gets +1 BAB and +1 casting each level); this is a workable Ranger that also casts spells (and can thus enhance its attacks in many ways - most notably of course Polymorph, Greater Magic Weapon, Flame Arrow, etc.) and can work at range or in melee. My favourite chassis for a core warrior/arcanist, actually. Eventually you can take level 2 in Ranger for Rapid Shot to make you a competent archer; the other feats don't really matter. But you probably want level 3-4 spells before this point to get to the fun part.

The big issue with Ranger is that there aren't that many ways to get your damage up and you need a golfbag of different arrows (that you have a hard time crafting) to beat damage reduction. And your spellcasting doesn't really do that much with PHB only. You need Wizard or Cleric spells for the good buff spells to your attacks if you wanna combine casting and combat.

That said, if you don't mind the issues with dealing with damage reduction and boosting your damage in general, straight Halfling Ranger builds itself: take Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and maybe like the Mounted Combat feats. Might as well take Weapon Focus at some point; you're out of attack-boosting feats since your class chassis gives you Rapid Shot, Manyshot and Improved Precise Shot so your feats go either towards casting and crafting or minor boosts like WF.


So:
Halfling Ranger

Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Handle Animal, Ride, whatever (Search, Knowledge: Nature, Survival, Concentration are all potentially useful)

Dex > Str > Con > Wis > Int > Cha [Str because your only damage bonus is your Strength modifier; the penalty from being Small really hurts]

1. Point Blank Shot
R: Rapid Shot
3. Precise Shot
6. Mounted Combat
R: Manyshot
9. Mounted Archery
R: Improved Precise Shot
12. Whatever


Alternatively, if you wanna buy a mount before you get a companion you can start with Mounted Archery instead and take Point Blank Shot > Precise Shot after it. Makes it harder to shoot into melee though so pick your targets with care.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Could you play a druid archer, instead? There are so many different ways to play a druid that the other one in the party might not have any idea you're one too if you don't let him know.

[Eldariel]

I just assumed that strength bows were understood for an archer.

Core only ranger archer path is a bit too MAD, which is why I thought cleric/fighter was a better combo.

As for all the folks posting to go assassin, I think that assumes that the campaign will allow evil characters. Many don't for a variety of reasons (desire for a heroic campaign, not everyone willing to play evil, and keeping RL relations friendly are three excellent ones). Maybe I missed that the campaign is allowing evil though...

Honestly, straight Cleric would do this better than Cleric/Fighter. Fighter literally gives nothing over increased caster level getting to the big buffs faster. And Cleric can tailor domains to sorta do Rangery things too (Travel and Trickery is a nice combo to get Hide and Survival and plenty good spells and abilities for example). The only thing you need is Longbow proficiency, which you can get from either Elf or War-domain if a deity/concept with Longbow as favoured weapon is offered. Or feat in the worst case scenario, which is still preferable to losing a level of casting, when you specifically want to reach those break points (ECL 8-9 for +2 Greater Magic Weapon, +3 Divine Favor, Divine Power, Quickened Divine Favor, etc. is sweet) and caster level is superrelevant for buff duration, buff bonuses, buff dispel resistance, etc. PHB only lacks means to boost caster level.

But yeah, given carte blanche, Trickery + War Domain [Longbow from god or ideal] Human Cleric is the best you can do: then you can get Rapid Shot on level 1 and go from there. Probably Precise Shot on 3 and then caster stuff from then on. Quicken Spell on 9 for Quickened Divine Favor. Potentially craft stuff. That could actually be pretty sweet.


So yeah, to the Cleric-X end I recommend:

Human Cleric (Trickery & War) of Deity-of-the-Hunt or Hunt as a concept or whatever
1. Point Blank Shot
H. Rapid Shot
3. Precise Shot
6. Extend Spell/Craft Rod/Craft Magic Arms & Armor/whatever
9. Quicken Spell

Can also fit Mounted Archery stuff if you wanna go down that route though you'll have to cross-class Ride. For skills, you obviously just want to maximise Hide, Spot, Concentration and whatever else.

If you can't get War-domain with Longbow as favoured weapon, just take MWP: Longbow and PBS on first level and Rapid Shot on 3rd and Precise on 6th instead. Or play a Wild Elf with the free Longbow Proficiency. But the bonus skill points from Human actually do come in handy and Dex isn't everything for such a build (though it's still real nice). Wild Elf is kinda forced to invest into Int because Int penalty and no bonuses would mean no skill points and you need Concentration, Hide and probably Spot at least (so 12 Int).

That would basically be a (better self-buffer) Ranger whose class just happens to be called "Cleric". Which isn't bad at all: spells make up for lost BAB and everything else you've got over most classes already. Then just high Dex, Str and Wis and you're good. After that Con and Int. Again, Cha is dump (in Core, Turn Undead is basically whatever).


Str for damage, Dex for attack bonus and Wis for casting and spell slots. Wis is the most important (you can eventually use Polymorph Any Object to override your physicals) but all of them are nice to have especially early on.

TL;DR: For Cleric "Ranger", if War-domain + Longbow combination is available:
Human Cleric (Trickery + War)
Wis > Dex > Str > Con > Int > Cha

If not:
Wild Elf Cleric (Trickery + Travel)
Wis > Dex > Str > Con > Int > Cha


Either way, feats are: PBS > Rapid Shot > Precise Shot > Whatever (with Quicken Spell eventually).

[bean illus]

Opie hasn't been here in days, but i keep going back to ...

Cleric 7.
Only needs a 14 wis, and a 12 str.

** Now, one could multiclass 1 level of several classes, ... or even 2 levels in several classes, but each level delays those sweet 4th level archery spells. Who wants cleric 7 at 13th level? [>]After cleric 7, you can multiclass all you want.[/i]

Chasing too many things isn't worth it. If you want skills, and a pet, and small, and ... , well ... archers are already MAD, and we don't have splat.

** I say; choose ranger/rogue and get back to cleric. I'll choose ranger, because it has some skills, one of the feats you need, and a spell list (wands).
Dex and Wis are the highest scores, and the skills you want. If you stick to hide, silent, listen, spot, you should be able to keep them pretty high.

Ranger 2/ Cleric 7/ Cleric
1: Point Blank Shot
2: Rapid Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Power Attack
9: Manyshot
12: Quicken Spell
15: Improved Precise Shot
18: Any

Use Wood elf?
10 16 14 14 14 10
12 18 12 12 14 10 Wood elf

Remember, in a soft game, bulls strength, divine power, and righteousness might will reach strength reqs for composite bows. You'll have more strength than your +5 bow can use, but that's what power attack is for.

Using greater magic weapon, divine power, righteousness might, and divine favor, you should hit anything. Add some penetration/etc, and you can hurt anything. You still get to choose arrow materials.

Travel, Trickery, and Luck seem best for an archer of ideals. Probably the first 2, but it's close.

** I don't care for the halfling ranger rogue archer in core. You're losing bab, AND str damage, And size damage, on an archer, and with few ways to make it up. Your half strength animal companion is now quarter strength. Congrats.
No, thanks.

That's my core only archer. Ranger 2 Cleric 18.

[Quertus]

Opie hasn't been here in days, but i keep going back to ...

Cleric 7.
Only needs a 14 wis, and a 12 str.

** Now, one could multiclass 1 level of several classes, ... or even 2 levels in several classes, but each level delays those sweet 4th level archery spells. Who wants cleric 7 at 13th level? [>]After cleric 7, you can multiclass all you want.[/i]

Chasing too many things isn't worth it. If you want skills, and a pet, and small, and ... , well ... archers are already MAD, and we don't have splat.

** I say; choose ranger/rogue and get back to cleric. I'll choose ranger, because it has some skills, one of the feats you need, and a spell list (wands).
Dex and Wis are the highest scores, and the skills you want. If you stick to hide, silent, listen, spot, you should be able to keep them pretty high.

Ranger 2/ Cleric 7/ Cleric
1: Point Blank Shot
2: Rapid Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Power Attack
9: Manyshot
12: Quicken Spell
15: Improved Precise Shot
18: Any

Use Wood elf?
10 16 14 14 14 10
12 18 12 12 14 10 Wood elf

Remember, in a soft game, bulls strength, divine power, and righteousness might will reach strength reqs for composite bows. You'll have more strength than your +5 bow can use, but that's what power attack is for.

Using greater magic weapon, divine power, righteousness might, and divine favor, you should hit anything. Add some penetration/etc, and you can hurt anything. You still get to choose arrow materials.

Travel, Trickery, and Luck seem best for an archer of ideals. Probably the first 2, but it's close.

** I don't care for the halfling ranger rogue archer in core. You're losing bab, AND str damage, And size damage, on an archer, and with few ways to make it up. Your half strength animal companion is now quarter strength. Congrats.
No, thanks.

That's my core only archer. Ranger 2 Cleric 18.

Can you, core only, get good hide, silent, listen, and spot on a 12 Int elf Cleric?

If so, will having no Concentration to cast spells in combat be an issue?

Don't get me wrong, this is not unlike what I would want to run (if I could stomach "core only" *and* "don't expect good items"), but I'm not sure how your build is going to accomplish what you want it to do.

[bean illus]

Can you, core only, get good hide, silent, listen, and spot on a 12 Int elf Cleric?

If so, will having no Concentration to cast spells in combat be an issue?

Don't get me wrong, this is not unlike what I would want to run (if I could stomach "core only" *and* "don't expect good items"), but I'm not sure how your build is going to accomplish what you want it to do.

Well, what i want the build to do, is hit things, and hurt them. I want it to retain relevancy as an archer, not crumble with the inevitable melee, and cast 9ths.
It's a secondary scout. More of a 'sometimes ambush with invisibility, and archers need some spot' thing. I would build a forward scout differently.

There's room in the build to increase skills, if desired. The easiest way being to go human. One could choose rogue instead of ranger, stagger the classes, and/or take a third level of a skills class. There's even room to plunk 2 inherent Int bonuses (don't).

But your point is, of course, that hide, move silently, listen, and spot are not on the cleric list. Yes (but hide is, due to trickery). How bad is it?

I would play it as a Dex build: Archer. Make sure you hit things a lot, at range. For stealth; lean on invisibility, silence, fly, detect evil, detect magic, nondetection ... none of which are on the core rogue spell list.


Let me look at the build as written, and see where it stand. I'll look first at inherent bonus all to wisdom, though it's about the same till around level 16+, when inherent bonuses, tomes, and +6 items all kick in.

I suppose i did write the feats as if ranger 2 should sit at 2nd level. Let's move it to 4th. This allows us 6 ranks +4 in the two Dex skills, and 7 ranks +2 in the two Wis skills (and a +2 racial bonus).

Guidance as a 0 level spell for +1 comp (nice). Max concentration, leaving our elf cleric ranger looking good pretty at 4th.

4th level:
Conc 7 +2 (+1)
Hide 6 +4 (+1)
Silent 6 +4 (+1)
Listen 7 +2 +2 (+1)
Spot 7 +2 +2 (+1)

Invisibility and silence as 2nd level spells removes the need for more ranks in hide or silent. Owl's wisdom is +2 wis skills.
Prayer as a 3rd level is a no brainer for a +1 luck (and minus to the opposed).

We're good, ... up to level 6-7? Yes?

Let's check at 8th? We'll spend cross class. And assume that, even a core, low magic item campaign can assume 1 single, simple +2 ability enhancment item per character by then? I'll take wisdom for mine.

8th level:
Conc 11 +2 (+1)
Hide 6 +4 (+1) ... invisible
Silent 6 +4 (+1) ... silence
Listen 9 +3 +2 +1 (+1)
Spot 9 +3 +2 +1 (+1) = 15 (+1)

Compare to ... human rogue 8 with 20 dex, and 10 wisdom, no spells?
Hide for 11 +5 +1 = 16.

Ranger 2/ cleric 6 is performing adequately as a secondary scout, dependable watch, and opportunity ambusher at 8-10th level, imho.

I'm interested. Where's it look bad? I'll grant a single +4 item.

12th level:
Listen, Spot 11 +3 +2 +2 (+1) (+1)= 18 (+1)(+1)
Compare to rogue 12:
Hide, Silent for 15 +5 +2 = 22 (-1)

16th level:
Listen, Spot 13 +4 +2 +2 (+1) (+1)= 21 (+1)(+1)
Compare to rogue 16:
Hide, Silent for 19 +6 +2 = 27 (-1)

From 8-12th my ranger 2/ cleric begins to slip behind a mid op stealth build. Towards level 16, the difference is ... less tolerable. lol. Not bad though, often as few as 3 points behind.

** Compare to human ranger 16? Max skills, Dex 18. Inherent bonuses used to bring Dex to 20, and Wis to 14. Item bonus to strength.

19 + 5 = 24 (-1)
The ranger 2/ cleric 14 is just behind the random human ranger 16: 24 (-1) vs 21(+1) (+1)

** At 20th level listen and spot, being wisdom skills and benefiting from eventual max ability stat 30 (+5 tome, +6 item) ...
15 ranks, +10 mod, +2 racial = +27 (+1) (+1).

*** But don't do that. Put all your ability raises into Dex, so that nearly every shot you plunk hits.

You still have invisible, silent, etc. Be satisfied with the perception you have.

20th level:
Spot 15 ranks, +2 mod, +2 racial = +19
Owls wisdom, prayer, and guidance to help in some encounters, totaling +23. It's competitive against rangers, but is -16 to the dedicated rogues +39. (Spots the rogue 20% of the time, sans detect spells. Let's hope rogue doesn't have skill focus twice.)

Our ever increasing Dex keeps you somewhat viable, when not invisible/etc. Eventually, a wand of cat's grace.

Hide 6 ranks, + 12 dex (+4) = +18 (+4).

The Rogue's 23 spot ranks aren't helped by wisdom. The clerics +22 hide is competitive.


Short answer, yes. Yes ranger 2/ cleric 18 is competitive in perception and stealth, while maxing concentration.