Pathfinder 2E question about proficiency and improvised weapons

[KillianHawkeye]

We had a situation in our Pathfinder 2nd Edition game last week that I couldn't figure out a definite answer for. The question is "Does an improvised weapon still fall under one of the weapon categories (simple, martial, etc.) to determine one's proficiency bonus?"

We were exploring a cave, and my Fighter who has the Double Slice feat had swapped his secondary weapon for a torch, which says in the text can be used as an improvised weapon. Improvised weapons carry an inherent penalty, so we weren't sure if it should count as a particular type of weapon (an improvised club, for example) or if everyone was considered "untrained" in improvised weapons by their very nature.

At the time, I decided to treat it as an untrained weapon and only applied my level and my Strength bonus as my proficiency level. However, the lack of proficiency on top of the inherent penalty of using an improvised weapon PLUS the penalty for using a non-agile off-hand weapon with Double Slice meant that my attack rolls with the torch were a lot lower than my sword attacks.

Does anyone know an answer to this? I would appreciate a rule quote or an FAQ answer or something, anything, that would clear this up a little bit. Or failing that, maybe there's a feat somewhere that gives "proficiency" in improvised weapons?

Thanks :smallsmile:

[stack]

They are simple weapons.

Improvised Weapons (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=224)
Source Core Rulebook pg. 278
If you attack with something that wasn’t built to be a weapon, such as a chair or a vase, you’re making an attack with an improvised weapon. You take a –2 item penalty to attack rolls with an improvised weapon. The GM determines the amount and type of damage the attack deals, if any, as well as any weapon traits the improvised weapon should have. Improvised weapons are simple weapons.

There is a weapon improviser (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2099) dedication to remove the penalty.

[KillianHawkeye]

Wow. That must be in the errata, because that last sentence is NOT in my copy of the book!

Thanks, though! Very helpful! :smallsigh:

EDIT: Okay, this line is also not present on the PF2E online SRD (https://pf2.d20pfsrd.com/rules/equipment/#Improvised_Weapons).

If you attack with something that wasn’t built to be a weapon, such as a chair or a vase, you’re making an attack with an improvised weapon. You take a –2 item penalty to attack rolls with an improvised weapon.

The GM determines the amount and type of damage the attack deals, if any, as well as any weapon traits the improvised weapon should have.

Anyone know where the other site got that other line from?

EDIT 2: Okay, okay, there was an errata document from a year ago which added this line that makes improvised weapons as simple weapons. I was expecting the d20pfsrd website to have any updates and changes added into the rules already, but apparently that's not the case.

Thanks again for helping me find it.

[stack]

Nethys is the official srd and seems to get updates up pretty quickly. Not sure if the 2e pfsrd gets updated as quickly? That site has a bunch of different system reference documents, so maybe that line just got lost in the shuffle?