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Renrik
2007-11-05, 07:39 PM
Levistus, Lord of Stygia, is locked in a giant iceberg in the middle of his own capitol as punishment for killing Asmodeus's consort.

So, hypothetical question:

How do you free him?

I know that he gets out once a year to attend the meeting at Asmodeus's palace for Asmodeus locks him up again, and there was also some kind of plot detailed in "Frostburn", but given all available information, lets figure out a workable plot to free the devil lord Levistus

Forrestfire
2007-11-05, 07:55 PM
I had thought of this a while back and I have developed 2 major methods:



Artificer Method
step 1: play an artificer
step 2: create a staff of summon elemental monolith, a bunch of lightning bolt wands, and a bunch of wands of summon monster 4
step 3: spam summon elemental monolith and summon monster 4 to summon fire elementals and fire elemental monoliths to melt the ice, all the while zapping 120ft deep holes into the glacier with the lighting bolt wands step 4: Plane shift to somewhere Asmodious can't find you


Cleric Method
step 1: play a cleric
step 2: get divine metamagic: shape spell
step 3: get Immunity to ability damage
step 4: fill all 9th level slots with apocolipse from the sky
step 5: hit the glacier with as many Divine metamagic, shaped fire Apocolipse from the sky as you can to blow 200 mile holes in the ice

Bauglir
2007-11-05, 08:30 PM
I approve of the apocalypse from the sky suggestion, but I suggest Sonic instead. From what I understand, Levistus' devils are chipping away at the ice rather than melting it, and I assume it'd just refreeze anyway. Better to shatter it and shovel it out.

martyboy74
2007-11-05, 08:38 PM
I suggest not doing it in the first place, becuase doing so is bound to bring Asmodeus' wrath upon you, which is not something that you want to happen.

Forrestfire
2007-11-05, 08:39 PM
@Bauglir: good idea.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-11-05, 08:44 PM
Magical fire isn't such a great idea. Don't work. Otherwise don't you think the various devils with fire spell-like ideas would have been spamming that in a desperate bid to gain Levistus's favor. Not entirely sure about other energies.

SilverClawShift
2007-11-05, 08:47 PM
Levistus, Lord of Stygia, is locked in a giant iceberg in the middle of his own capitol as punishment for killing Asmodeus's consort.

So, hypothetical question:

How do you free him?

Patiently wait for 74 more centuries until Asmodeus frees him for the express purpose of slitting his throat and watching him bleed all over the carpet.

Or overthrow Asmodeus. Good luck with that, let me know how that goes, afterwards we can go try to headbutt the lady of pain. Maybe stab AO a few times.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-11-05, 10:02 PM
Or overthrow Asmodeus. Good luck with that, let me know how that goes, afterwards we can go try to headbutt the lady of pain. Maybe stab AO a few times.

Now now, lets not send them on easier tasks once overthrowing Asmodeus and headbutting the Lady of Pain.

...Maybe try something like kicking an Elder Evil in the gnads.

slexlollar89
2007-11-05, 10:21 PM
I always was fascinated by this idea, and one day it struck me to actually fascinate Asmodeus via bardic awesomeness, then through a series of cunning suggestions and charms, have him do it. Then you can say it was all his idea and you get favor from a devil who is similar to a bard (in many ways, not all).

This however, requires you to be a signifigantly high level which you should be anyway if you ae discussing this topic.

Another way is to just be a great wyrm gold dragon.

The_Snark
2007-11-05, 10:21 PM
The biggest challenge to doing that to an Elder Evil would be knowing where to kick.

Well, that and keeping your sanity.

As for freeing Levistus...

1. Come up with a really, really awesome plot to spread the influence of the Nine Hells using Levistus as a pawn/fall guy. Possible example: Levistus is freed and gains access to a powerful ritual that will vastly increase his cult in the mortal world, channeling many souls to Baator and Levistus in particular. Powerful creatures of good, like gods, obviously get annoyed by this, and show up to foil Levistus, who shows up to defend his interests. Backstab both as they fight, and snatch whatever souls were harvested already.
2. Present this plan to Asmodeus, who arranges Levistus's "escape" and for the components and knowledge of the ritual to be laid before him.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-05, 10:38 PM
Now now, lets not send them on easier tasks once overthrowing Asmodeus and headbutting the Lady of Pain.

...Maybe try something like kicking an Elder Evil in the gnads.

I don't think they have gnads....

Well, I did this. What happened (in a post apocalyptic future) was that after the mindflayers used Psionic energy expended by exploding elder brains to go back into the past, the remaining energy shattered most things in the universe (including the giant ice burg) and Levistus killed Asmoedous while he was weakened (and whithout is Ruby Rod).

There are probably better ways, but it made an interesting plot hook (when the players found out the future....).

Callos_DeTerran
2007-11-05, 10:53 PM
I don't think they have gnads....

Or perhaps they do and are merely too non-eucilidean and blasphemous to behold. The GNADS OF MADNESS!


Well, I did this. What happened (in a post apocalyptic future) was that after the mindflayers used Psionic energy expended by exploding elder brains to go back into the past, the remaining energy shattered most things in the universe (including the giant ice burg) and Levistus killed Asmoedous while he was weakened (and whithout is Ruby Rod).

There are probably better ways, but it made an interesting plot hook (when the players found out the future....).

*twitch*....I still give you credit on a creative plot twist...even if it makes me want to gnaw on human flesh.

SilverClawShift
2007-11-05, 10:57 PM
*twitch*....I still give you credit on a creative plot twist...even if it makes me want to gnaw on human flesh.

Actually, as much as I share your respect for the Big A, and he is just about the most cunning and powerful thing around...

A massive wave of psionic energy from the distant future would be one of those things that not even Asmodeus saw coming. The only way to beat the master of manipulation is going to be to find some way to get outside of his diabolical plans. Attacking from the far flung future? Probably the only thing I can picture that would leave Asmodeus asking "What in hell just happened?"

*Edit*

Of course, after you manage to get outside of his manipulation, you're still left facing a monstrously powerful (understatement) devil who is actually just an aspect of something much much worse.
Is it DiceFreaks who gives the idea that Asmodeus is actually just one of nine potential aspects running around simultaneously of the same evil force (which might darn well be a lawful evil overdeity)?

Callos_DeTerran
2007-11-05, 11:10 PM
Of course, after you manage to get outside of his manipulation, you're still left facing a monstrously powerful (understatement) devil who is actually just an aspect of something much much worse.
Is it DiceFreaks who gives the idea that Asmodeus is actually just one of nine potential aspects running around simultaneously of the same evil force (which might darn well be a lawful evil overdeity)?

Hrm...It's DiceFreaks that supports that he's one of nine different aspects of the same evil force. But it's also suggested he's still that force normally. (Last I remember from official WoTC stuff, Big A might be the Serpent who taught Vecna magic. And that he's part of a group that's called the Ancient's who include Big A and the Lady of Pain among members)

But yes, sadly attacking from the distant future is probably the only way to catch Asmodeus by surprise..but then about who besides a Time Dragon or deity wouldn't be surprised at being attacked from the future?



Then again...I'm not entirely convinced Asmodeus wouldn't be prepared for the psychic force from the mind flayers. Think about it...mind flayers come back, force with them, Asmodeus is already around and either sees it's effects/feels/hears about them, takes steps to either protect himself from the eventual coming of it again or to stop them in the first place which alters the future...which alters the past so he'd never know to defend himself meaning the flayers WOULD do it so he'd need to do it again which would *goes into time loop* NOOOoooooooo!

Doresain
2007-11-05, 11:27 PM
convince the demon princes to attack the nine hells full force?

SilverClawShift
2007-11-05, 11:29 PM
convince the demon princes to attack the nine hells full force?

LOL.

I mean, yeah, that's a good starting point. But you'd have a better chance at teaching a hoard of cats to ignore mice.

The_Snark
2007-11-05, 11:31 PM
It should really be the other way around. Trying to teach cats to ignore mice is like trying to unify demons.

Of course, the Queen of Chaos managed it for a while. Clearly not long enough, though.

SilverClawShift
2007-11-05, 11:37 PM
Which is the problem. I'm sure you could convince the demon lords that it'd be a good idea to join together and attack Hell just for the... well, just for the hell of it.

The question is, would they break ranks and attack each other in 30 seconds, or in 35?

Xefas
2007-11-05, 11:44 PM
What I would do is ask a DM to run a campaign in which a MacGuffin exists that could free Levistus, and that towards the end of the campaign, the MacGuffin is used to free him.

Even conceiving of doing it any other way will have Asmodeus writing your name in his Death Note while you're still a fetus.

But if you're speaking of one of those hypothetical "What if we were playing D&D, only we weren't playing D&D" things where there is no DM or plot or setting or anything...then, I'd research an Epic Spell "Free Levistus Without Anyone Being Able to Stop Me" using the Summon Seed to summon him, and the Compel Seed to compel everyone in the multiverse not to stop you. Since there is no DM, it shouldn't be too hard to craft your own Ring of Spellcraft +Alot.

Doresain
2007-11-05, 11:45 PM
demons are like children with ADD...promise them candy, and they will do whatever you want

Nerd-o-rama
2007-11-05, 11:47 PM
Hellfire. Lots of it. Convince Mephistopheles that he and Levistus together would have a chance of overthrowing Asmodeus, or something.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-06, 12:01 AM
demons are like children with ADD...promise them candy, and they will do whatever you want

Actually, they'll just kill you and take the candy for themselves.

Xuincherguixe
2007-11-06, 12:29 AM
Actually, they'll just kill you and take the candy for themselves.

That's why you hide the candy.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-11-06, 12:51 AM
Well, the first thing you should keep in mind is that Devil's thrive on planning. They often have high intelligences, and use them to think of *every contingency they can*. A lot of times, a Regular old Pit Lord is the leader of a small cult or political coup. Pit fiends are lesser devils. They are commanded by the nine princes of hell, who make plans so all-encompassing that the Pit Fiend's Plans all go according to THEIR plans. And Asmodues is even more so- His plans involve the nine princes plans all going according to his plans! GAH! In short, he only keeps and maintains his position by being such a masterful strategist that he has the entire nine hells on his strings.

As the "Impossible Man" once said- "You can't out-grim the grim reaper.", you can't beat Asmodeus by thinking Lawfully... Or Evilly. I'm sure each of the 9 princes has thought of freeing levistus themselves and has at least a thosuand possible situations in which they'd make a move. And Asmodeus has already countered each one of those in advance, plus 9000 more. Your best bet is a Chaotic Good approach. If someone has prepared to free levistus, or stands to gain from doing so, Asmodeus knows about it.

Asmodeus might plan on other demons or political enemies attacking, but the best way to catch Asmodeus by surprise is to do this as a spur of the moment decosion with little to gain from it. Chaotic Good. The less planning or gain you stand to take from it, the less chance Asmodeus already has a plan against you.

Of course, a Chaotic Good person probably wouldn't free Levistus anyway, given Levistus is probably also as LE as they come and would slit his savior's throat the instant it became convenient... But still.


Either way, I wouldn't try it without Epic Spellcasting at least. (I'd take an epic spell that summoned an arbitrarily high number of solars instantly as a free action at least, and use it to protect yourself while freeing levistus- possibly through a special version of "Vengeful Gaze of God" made for the situation.)

Gralamin
2007-11-06, 01:12 AM
I've always seen a problem with attempting to kill Asmodeus, and that frankly is that HE BLEEDS PIT FIENDS and each pit fiend can cast wish. I'm sure you can see what this could lead to.

Goff
2007-11-06, 01:59 AM
Free Levistus eh?

MacGuyver, some string, a toothbrush and two paperclips should do it. Add a pack of matches to make it easy.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-06, 02:47 AM
That's why you hide the candy.

And what do children do when you hide candy? The cry, scream, and generally annoy you until either you tell them where the candy is or you give up or they get bored. The same with demons, only they cry tears of flames and torment, you do all the screaming, they consider torture to be a form or annoyance, and boredom to them is what happens when everything's dead.

Khanderas
2007-11-06, 06:58 AM
Now now, lets not send them on easier tasks once overthrowing Asmodeus and headbutting the Lady of Pain.

...Maybe try something like kicking an Elder Evil in the gnads.
Finding the gnads of elder gods is a feat in itself.

Freelance Henchman
2007-11-06, 07:08 AM
Finding the gnads of elder gods is a feat in itself.

It also presumes you were pretty insane BEFORE started inspecting an Elder Gods "body" in detail.

Goff
2007-11-06, 07:18 AM
Finding the gnads of elder gods is a feat in itself.

Find Elder God's Gnads [Epic]
Your adeptness at finding the gnads of elder gods allows you make precision strikes at some of the most powerful creative forces in reality.

Prerequisite
Dirty Fighting, Find Gnads, Sneak Attack +10d6

Benefit
In the first round of combat against an elder god, all of your attacks (should you survive long enough to make any) catch the god flat footed.

serpentcross
2007-11-06, 07:31 AM
I'm master in a campaign where the party will be eventually manipulated into freeing Levistus.
A Dying holy liberator has entrusted his sword to the party.
It's a Holy Anarchic sword that burns down everything is legal or evil.
The sword could melt Levistus Ice given enough time.

That is a plan by Malcanthet to pursue the blood war by starting a new war between devils.
Anyway is just a side plot, not the main one.

Renrik
2007-11-06, 11:35 AM
Actually, they'll just kill you and take the candy for themselves.

exactly; just like kids with ADD.


^^ that feat is awesome.

I looked up the thing in Frostburn. There's a city called Icerazer that has a corrupted frost-magic thingy formed when a rimefire eidolon got shanked with a chunk of stygian ice. It allows you to sacrifice creatures to Levistus, and their souls help to freeze his ice. But only the souls of good-aligned creatures with the fire subtype do any real damage to it, so you'd need to get a bunch of gold or brass dragons (unlikely, since the city of Icerazer is built on a huge floating iceberg in the middle of a northern sea), or some other good-aligned fire critters, like some kind of celestials.

So that's one tool we could use.

Let's think this over:Who are Levistus's allies? Who are his enemies? Who are his allies' enemies? Who are his enemy's enemies? Who stands to gain from his being released, and would thus help us? Once we figure out that, we can see what resources we have at our disposal.

Adumbration
2007-11-06, 12:50 PM
Well, if there are not (m)any limits, here's one suggestion:

First, be an Epic level Wizard. As high as possible. Go to your friendly neighborhood chaotic good Gods, and explain your plan to them.

Wait until uncontrollable giggles, initial disbelief and scepticism stop. Create an Epic level spell "Planeshift: Combine planes."

Planeshift first to the plane of the demons, create a stable point necessary for the spell, planeshift to the plane of devils and do the same.

Planeshift back to Material Plane, and cast Planeshift: Combine planes with the aid of 2-3 Chaotic Good Gods. You'll probably lose half of your levels in progress, but as long as you have enough power to use a looking glass, you and the gods can have the laughs of your lifetime.

Did I forget anything? Oh yes, freeing Levistus. Well, if you still want to do it after that, get couple of friends and go back down there after dust has settled and recover whatever is left of him.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-06, 01:14 PM
Enemies: Demons, the Big A
Allies: Cultists
Enemies' Enemies: Demons, All other Archdevils except Bel. Mind-Flayers

Now, with mind-flayers, my campaign was a prediction for the future and so never happened in game time (was explained that this was going to happen after the mind-flayers went back to the past). But, the Mind-Flayers are probably the only foes the Big A has the he does not know about, and so the only ones who could really threaten him.

Renrik
2007-11-06, 06:33 PM
So, Asmodeus probably has no counter to the Mind Flayers, but what would they gain in freeing Levistus? How do we convince them to help? Their goals seem to be nothing short of rebuilding their Empire, this time witht the necessary knowledge to prevent its collapse. So, if offered, by the plotters, the plotters' allies, or Levistus himself, extensive knowledge, powerful divination magic to look through time, powerful chronomancy, a way to blot out the sun on the Material plane, or perhaps some massively powerful artifact to help them in future conquests, they might be persuaded to help, but what good would they do, exactly, and who could provide them with what they need? (I beleive the Drow have a splatbook in which they have a ritual capable of lotting out the sun, but they need to sacrifice a solar to perform it, and it takes forever. Or something like that.)

Let's consider the other archdevils. Would they stand to gain or lose from Levistus's freedom?

We must consider Asmodeus' reaction. Would he kill Levistus if he found him free? Or congratulate him on a job well done and decorate him with garlands, then manipulate him?

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-06, 07:06 PM
Convince the Mindflayers that by collecting the essence/souls of the the 8 devil lords (we're exclude Levistus) and the demon princes, they can blot out the sun and wield the excess power. You'll help as will Levistus, all they have to do is free him and that will make Big A come and fall into the only trap he won't expect. After he's gone the rest is easy.

Mewtarthio
2007-11-06, 07:12 PM
I don't think you can rely on Mindflayers for your plot. Aside from the fact that they'll see right through your schemes (or, more likely, just decide to either eat your brain or shove their spawn into your head), their one advantage is time travel. By travelling through time, they've become something that Asmodeus cannot see coming. There was literally nothing to suggest the presence of Illithids before they arrived. If you find out about them yourself, odds are Asmodeus as found out about them as well. He's got more resources and he's smarter. Besides, what could they do? I believe the original suggestion had an ultra-powerful side effect of time travel freeing Levistus.

illathid
2007-11-06, 07:43 PM
Yes, I'm sure if we were able to see the problem of attacks from the future, Asmodeus would be able to as well. In fact, maybe that is how he has been able to maintain control of Hell. Asmodeus is from the future:smalleek:!

Actually that could be a fun plot. Asmodeus has kept a journal of all of his exploits since he has come to rule Hell. Once he has established complete control of the all the planes of existence, he sends his journal back in time to himself before he "fell". Thus the question of what corrupted Asmodeus is answered, He corrupted himself! It would also explain how he has been able to maintain control of hell, despite the near infinite machinations of those that lsut for his throne.