Vow of Poverty and self-made equipment

[Conradine]

Vow of Poverty requires to forswear material possessions, but what about items made directly from the character, using materials harvested from the characters?

For example, can he hunt boars / deers / bears ecc. and craft hide armor, blades made of bone or obsidian, a composite bow using tendons and horn ecc.?

Also, can he - using only his hands - build himself a wooden hut? A stone one? Craft himself furniture from wood he fell? Grow or harvest vegetal fibers and make himself clothes?

[tyckspoon]

Vow of Poverty has very few and specifically listed exceptions:


To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch.

The source of the item is not relevant, although as you are not permitted to deal in valuable items or currency in order to make a trade you will presumably have either crafted your permitted items yourself or had somebody donate them to you. Most of your suggestions would violate the vow.

[newguydude1]

Vow of Poverty requires to forswear material possessions, but what about items made directly from the character, using materials harvested from the characters?

For example, can he hunt boars / deers / bears ecc. and craft hide armor, blades made of bone or obsidian, a composite bow using tendons and horn ecc.?

Also, can he - using only his hands - build himself a wooden hut? A stone one? Craft himself furniture from wood he fell? Grow or harvest vegetal fibers and make himself clothes?

nope. vop means no self crafted gear either. the only exception is self crafted nonmagical simple weapons of nonexpensive material.

bone is fine. dragonbone is not.

[Kalkra]

One could make an argument for items created by Minor Creation and the like being okay, because they're temporary, and therefore have no value, but that's by no means a clear-cut thing.

[Necroticplague]

No. A material possession is a material possession, regardless of how it's made. The point is how is that you don't have things so that others can. If you keep a material possession, even one you made, somebody else doesn't have it. I may allow some wiggle room if you used borrowed tools (or what bare necessities you can own as a substitute) or your bare hand to craft things and then give them away, as that's perfectly in keeping with the nature of the vow.

[gijoemike]

Vow of Poverty requires to forswear material possessions, but what about items made directly from the character, using materials harvested from the characters?

For example, can he hunt boars / deers / bears ecc. and craft hide armor, blades made of bone or obsidian, a composite bow using tendons and horn ecc.?

Also, can he - using only his hands - build himself a wooden hut? A stone one? Craft himself furniture from wood he fell? Grow or harvest vegetal fibers and make himself clothes?

No.

Vow of poverty is terrible. You are crippled in the limits of what you can have/use. You can have like 3 pairs of common cloths, a pair of shoes. a backpack, travel cape/blanket, and a wooden club. This is not really an exaggeration.

May I have a tea set made from bone. NO lose your powers.
May I craft and use a blade made from flint. NO lose your powers. (Note the club example. No craft roll required.)
May I borrow that ice sword to hit this fire monster since my club wlll not work. NO lose your powers.
May I invoke the power of this scroll of teleport to progress the plot. NO lose your powers.
May I have a masterwork item of any kind? NO lose your powers.
May I use this magical X we found on the ground until I can sell it at the absolute earliest possible time? NO, lose your powers.
May I at least carry the magical X we found? I wont use it. NO, lose your powers.
May I give some of my share of the loot to my team as they need it? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! lose your powers.
May I at least stay in the nice room of the inn if I share my room with bob and bob is the one paying?
---Is actually arguable, most likely a NO, lose your powers. Go to the flea infested flop house.



The idea is value of an item is a desirable trait. If you want/desire a tea set made of stone, and make it yourself, no gold has exchanged hands. You have instilled value in an undesirable object (a plain rock). The desire is a form of greed and material possession. Therefore you MUST reject it.

That nice inn would be nice to stay at for the night since Bob is paying. It costs you nothing, bob doesn't have to pay extra, and all you need to do is stand there. You desire to not sleep on the cold ground. That desire grants value to Bob's kind act. Therefore you MUST reject it. You don't reject Bob, or Bob's kindness, you must reject the value of what Bob is trying to give you.

[Darg]

Ironwood can be used by a vow of poverty maker. The vow only forbids borrowing magic items not mundane items given additional properties by magic.

I don't know if they can craft their own armor from wood though. Creating the figurine for the material component to give away should be fine.

[bean illus]

Special

To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your behalf—you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebony fly. You may not, however, "borrow" a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand, or staff. If you break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it.


I almost launched into a philosophy rant.

I don't think vop keeps one from lending a hand (that looks heavy, would it help if i carried it?). It doesn't stop one from crafting (Oh, your making baskets for the village? Cool.).
It just stops you from carrying it around, or using it. ... unless it's on the list.

There is one workaround for VoP, that i advocate. It doesn't do much, but what it does is legal, as far as I see.

VoP reads:

You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons ... .

You may wear simple clothes (...) with no magical properties.

You may not use any magic item of any sort, ...


Apparently one can carry multiple simple weapons, and a reasonable number of layers of clothing.

The rest of my theory is based on the definitions of magic item, and magical properties.

One of your spells is permanency.
I did a thread on it. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?567135-Does-Permanency-on-an-item-break-VoP&highlight=Bean+illus%2C+vow+permanency)

[Gruftzwerg]

If you want to abuse Vow of Poverty you have to go for the Sculpt Self feat(dragon).
Sculpt Self can be used to apply the effects, like that on magic items, directly onto your body.