Aside from Psion Uncarnate, what psionic means are there to become incorporeal?

[Segev]

I have located ectoplasmic form (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/ectoplasmic-form/), but that technically isn't incorporeality and requires gaps to move through.

The Psion Uncarnate Shed Body is almost perfect for my purpose, but its need to use a move action to switch back and forth without burning out the 10 rounds, and the lame prerequisites and the loss of a manifester level is painful. The build design right now is a highly-mobile Nomad, and my best solution for "go places I can't see into" so far is Expanded Knowledge: clairvoyant sense to spend 3 pp to peer beyond walls. Technically, though, it's unclear if that provides "line of sight" for Nomad's Step. Sure, you can see there, but is that a line of sight? I suspect not. Could use fold space, though, at least.

Metamorphosis of any stripe doesn't ever permit picking up an "incorporeality" menu item, so that doesn't work (absent house rules/homebrew). Maybe I missed a feat or PrC somewhere, but I think the investment there exceeds Psion Uncarnate as a level 1 dip.

Perhaps something that enables a psicrystal to become incorporeal, or allows acquisition of an incorporeal minion that can be used for dimension swap.


This isn't "make or break," just an interesting problem I'm wrestling with, and am interested in turning to the crowdsourced hive mind of the Playground for help in scouring for ideas. Thanks!

[Particle_Man]

Technically getting killed by a caller in darkness might count.

[Rebel7284]

Play an Unbodied? You are permanently incorporeal. +4 LA hurts but at least your 4 HD comes with Psion 4 Manifesting that should stack with levels in Psion. You can always use metamorphosis to turn into a corporeal form if you need to.

I always wanted to find ways to optimize these buggers, not having a body thing seems intense.

[calyst]

Insubstantial from Psionics Augmented : Powers book gives incorporeal. Psionics Augmented : Seventh Path also has a few ways to get incorporeal but usually by leaving your actual body behind temporarily.

[Segev]

Becoming part of a Caller in Darkness I suppose works if you want to do this permanently, as would playing an Unbodied (which does seem like it could be fun), but I'm looking for a way to do it temporarily. Ideally something that permits going incorporeal and moving somewhat casually, and then reverting.

Insubstantial from Psionics Augmented : Powers book gives incorporeal. Psionics Augmented : Seventh Path also has a few ways to get incorporeal but usually by leaving your actual body behind temporarily.

Ah! I should have thought of checking out Athanatism Discipline. Thanks! ...hrm, insubstantial looks like it's close to what I want, and might be useful. The problem of its very short duration coupled with its needing a standard action to activate is the biggest issue. But stopping a moment to focus before stepping through a wall works.

I'll have to hunt down Seventh Path to really study the other options you mention. Stepping out-of-body and being able to teleport your body to it might work.


The big thing I'm going for here is the ability to phase through obstacles through which he cannot see. If "line of sight" means "anything you can see," clairvoyant sense achieves this handily enough, I think. Being able to just phase through walls and such is fun, too, though. A feat (Expanded Knowledge) for insubstantial or clairvoyant sense is better than a feat tax (Psionic Body) and a lost level for 10 rounds of it per day (via Psion Uncarnate). Especially since Psion Uncarnate uses up a move action to start AND stop it, so if you just want a round's worth of wall-passage, you need a move action to go incorporeal, a move action to pass through the wall, and a third move action to go corporeal again. Insubstantial is a standard action to activate, a move action to go through the wall, and then it just wears off.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is anything from 3.5 available? Shape Soulmeld (Phase Cloak) + psionic open chakra would work, and if you have a decent combination of cost reduction and ML boosts (of which there are many, at least in 3e), you could be binding your shoulders chakra as soon as you get psionic open chakra at level 7. It only works while moving, but you're a nomad. Moving is what you do!

[Segev]

Is anything from 3.5 available? Shape Soulmeld (Phase Cloak) + psionic open chakra would work, and if you have a decent combination of cost reduction and ML boosts (of which there are many, at least in 3e), you could be binding your shoulders chakra as soon as you get psionic open chakra at level 7. It only works while moving, but you're a nomad. Moving is what you do!

Definitely something to look into. I'd prefer to use Akasha than Incarnum to keep it as PF as possible, but if I really wanted it, I could probably swing that. And honestly, "I turn incorporeal but only while moving" would be perfect for the use case I'm thinking of, here. So that's excellent help! Thanks!

Now to examine DSP's Akasha to see if they have an equivalent of those relevant points. (I actually know that there's some access to Akasha's Daevic Veils via Aegis, which this build has one level of to fuel bastion for a bunch of flexibility, but I don't think Daevic Veils have an equivalent to Phase Cloak. So I'll need to look a little harder.)

[TiaC]

Becoming part of a Caller in Darkness I suppose works if you want to do this permanently, as would playing an Unbodied (which does seem like it could be fun), but I'm looking for a way to do it temporarily. Ideally something that permits going incorporeal and moving somewhat casually, and then reverting.


Ah! I should have thought of checking out Athanatism Discipline. Thanks! ...hrm, insubstantial looks like it's close to what I want, and might be useful. The problem of its very short duration coupled with its needing a standard action to activate is the biggest issue. But stopping a moment to focus before stepping through a wall works.

I'll have to hunt down Seventh Path to really study the other options you mention. Stepping out-of-body and being able to teleport your body to it might work.


The big thing I'm going for here is the ability to phase through obstacles through which he cannot see. If "line of sight" means "anything you can see," clairvoyant sense achieves this handily enough, I think. Being able to just phase through walls and such is fun, too, though. A feat (Expanded Knowledge) for insubstantial or clairvoyant sense is better than a feat tax (Psionic Body) and a lost level for 10 rounds of it per day (via Psion Uncarnate). Especially since Psion Uncarnate uses up a move action to start AND stop it, so if you just want a round's worth of wall-passage, you need a move action to go incorporeal, a move action to pass through the wall, and a third move action to go corporeal again. Insubstantial is a standard action to activate, a move action to go through the wall, and then it just wears off.

Athanatism is awesome for this. The 8th level Discipline power Inurement brings you back as a ghost if you die under its effects, so get a power stone and kill yourself for a permanent solution. The 7th-level Psion power Soul Stealing is a death power that brings the target back as a ghost, so that might work too. Death Pact brings the target back as a loyal ghost if they die, and it's only 6th level, but it needs augmentation to give special attacks. Gift of the Corpse and Ex Nihlio have you leave your body and go incorporeal. There's a ton of really powerful options here.

Strange Fluids from Numeria can do it with the Biokinetic Endurance power to prevent the con damage, but it's a one in a thousand chance of gaining the ability. A Cyclopean Seer Oracle with Abundant Revelations can guarantee it. This has the advantage of being able to turn it on and off easily.

Path of War has the third-level boost Ghostwalk that takes you incorporeal for a round as a swift action and the fifth-level Empty Frame that does the same as an immediate action. You could pick these up through your Aegis level.

[Ramza00]

Since you are talking Pathfinder Psionics aka Dreamscarred Press might as well included Dreamscarred version of Tome of Battle which is Path of War.

In Path of War Expanded there is a Veiled Moon discipline, a discipline that plays with shadows, teleports, incorporeality, astral and ethereal, etc.

There is a 3rd level maneuver that gives incorporeality as a swift action. There are also later incorporeal maneuvers but lets focus on this 3rd level maneuver known as Ghostwalk.

Ghostwalk can be gain via X 4/Any Martial Discipline class that gives Veiled Moon 1 at HD 5/ X 15, if you take the trait Practiced Initiator which treats your IL as +2 higher and thus allows you to have 4 levels of a non initiator, then 1 level of a initiator, and thus you can pick 3rd level maneuvers at HD 5.

I recommend Mystic which has a random maneuver generation like the Crusader but you get to pick which 2 maneuvers you automatically get at the start of combat.

Thus you can now use Ghostwalk at the start of combat and be incorporeal for 1 round. You can also use Ghostwalk out of combat. When you use mystics maneuvers out of combat the 2 you selected automatically refresh every round so you can be incorporeal indefinitely as long as you use your swift action.

So how do you become incorporeal every round in combat? Well you borrow stuff from other disciplines. For the price of two feats Riven Hourglass Style and Riven Hourglass Eternity starting at HD 7 (due to skill requirements of RH Eternity) if you are in a stance of the Riven Hourglass (the time manipulating discipline) you can sacrifice a maneuver readied and extend by 1 round a maneuver, or a psionic power, or a spell. Since Mystic gets 1 new maneuver readied each round you can do this indefinitely in combat with no action used besides starting up Ghostwalk in the first place as a swift action.

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I would like to point out Psionic 4 / Mystic 1 / Awakened Blade 10 is a good prestige class. It is 8/10 manifesting and is an action enhancer via counters as class features and it advances your maneuvers 10/10. It does have a feat tax of two feats, and two 1st level powers that are almost useless, but since it gives 2 free bonus feats long term it pays those feat taxes back, and two 1st level powers is very cheap wealth by level with mind stones and greater mind stones.

[Ramza00]

And like I pointed out in an earlier thread that you created.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623473-Aegis-Psion-Bastion-super-flexible-2nd-level-power

Aegis + Wizard (Psychic Mage archetype) is a good mix if you can use the 3rd party class Metaforge a variant Cerebremancer. This in turn gives you a mixture of arcane and psionics flexibility and Aegis can give you up to 6th level maneuvers in 3 Path of War disciplines.

Thus you can set up the Veiled Moon Ghostwalk trick with your Aegis levels as TiaC mentioned.

[TiaC]

I forgot Ghost Syrup (https://www.aonprd.com/Necrotoxins.aspx), a poison that renders you permanently incorporeal if it drains your strength to 0.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I forgot Ghost Syrup (https://www.aonprd.com/Necrotoxins.aspx), a poison that renders you permanently incorporeal if it drains your strength to 0.6,000 gp for permanent incorporeality? Take the Ghost Touch feat, and that's a REALLY good deal.

[Segev]

That is pretty amazing. The one big downside being that even with a feat to touch corporeal stuff, you’re not able to have any gear or even clothes while enjoying the incorporeality and it’s ability to pass through walls.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That is pretty amazing. The one big downside being that even with a feat to touch corporeal stuff, you’re not able to have any gear or even clothes while enjoying the incorporeality and it’s ability to pass through walls.Add enhancements to your body itself, such as via a psychoactive skin graft (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook&p=23285432&viewfull=1#post23285432). There're also rules for adding ghost touch to any item via Savage Species. +4k gp, IIRC.

[TiaC]

That is pretty amazing. The one big downside being that even with a feat to touch corporeal stuff, you’re not able to have any gear or even clothes while enjoying the incorporeality and it’s ability to pass through walls.

Get an Amulet of Grasping Souls (https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Amulet%20of%20 Grasping%20Souls) for this line "When an incorporeal creature wears the amulet, it can interact with it surroundings. Any item in its possession becomes incorporeal, allowing the incorporeal creature to take items and phase through objects with them. An incorporeal creature without a Strength score uses its Charisma score to determine how much it can carry." It's 21k, so it's unfortunately quite a few levels after the syrup.

[Segev]

Get an Amulet of Grasping Souls (https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Amulet%20of%20 Grasping%20Souls) for this line "When an incorporeal creature wears the amulet, it can interact with it surroundings. Any item in its possession becomes incorporeal, allowing the incorporeal creature to take items and phase through objects with them. An incorporeal creature without a Strength score uses its Charisma score to determine how much it can carry." It's 21k, so it's unfortunately quite a few levels after the syrup.

Ooh, that does work nicely. I mean, yes, it delays the combo by a few levels, but you can always wait until you have both before engaging it.

And this seems doable before you'd hit level 10 of Psion Uncarnate even if you were inclined to go that route.

[Ramza00]

Get an Amulet of Grasping Souls (https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Amulet%20of%20 Grasping%20Souls) for this line "When an incorporeal creature wears the amulet, it can interact with it surroundings. Any item in its possession becomes incorporeal, allowing the incorporeal creature to take items and phase through objects with them. An incorporeal creature without a Strength score uses its Charisma score to determine how much it can carry." It's 21k, so it's unfortunately quite a few levels after the syrup.

Interesting. For 21k I can see a 9th level Psion, Dual Discipline with Conduit and one other Discipline...

I can see said Psion craft one of these for each party member for 11.5k (and swap out the crafting feats with DSP Psychic Reformation)

Then use the 4th level Conduit power Gift of the Corpse to turn yourself into a shadow, of for 9 pp points do it to an ally. The only downside with this tactic with an amulet is you can be targeted as an undead with things like the cleric’s channel energy and other affects. Also your body is asleep at the inn, rope trick, etc so it needs to be guarded. And if you die your body “awakens” but you are -1 hp and dying.

Also since you are going incorporeal might as well also do shape the shade. For 8 pp you can affect incorporeal creatures, and 10 pp corporeal alive creatures, but Shape the Shade allows you to give someone any feat for 1 hour per level such as expanded knowledge or whatever you want. Or you can choose any other 2 summoner customization points (and the feat option costs 2 cp thus the source of the trick.)

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Remind me do incorporeal creatures in pathfinder get automatic flight?

[Endarire]

Greater metamorphosis (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metamorphosisGreater.htm) allows incorporeality and other stuff - but only for 3.5.