Game of Thrones Characters as 5e Classes: Arya Stark is not an Assassin Rogue?

[arnin77]

Game of Thrones has been on TV recently and I've read some posts here and there about what classes all the characters are. I've always agreed that Arya was an assassin because of her storyline, however; upon recent viewings I find that I am not convinced anymore that this is the case.

I think alot of the discussion is about the mechanics of D&D, as in; what are the character's powers and I think that is possibly the wrong way to look at it. I think the correct way to look at it is "What is the character's theme?"

I would argue that Arya actually fails at being an assassin. Her main theme seems to be vengeance. She makes a list and takes an oath to erase everyone on it. Because of this I believe she is an Oath of Vengeance Paladin.

If you want to argue mechanics then I would say she is a dex-based CG Vengeance Paladin using a rapier (Needle) with blindfighting who kills the BBEG with a combination of Misty Step, Protection from Energy, and Hold Monster/Haste.

I would also say that "the Waif" is the assassin as she is everything Arya is not. She becomes "no one" while Arya cannot truly forget herself. Arya cannot kill innocent people either as she refuses to kill the actress since she deems her a good person.

I also think that Jaqen H'ghar is a Death/Trickery cleric as his main theme is to "Serve the Many-faced God".

NOTE: obviously with multiclassing you can get Arya assassin levels but i'm looking at single class to keep things simple and looking at themes instead of mechanics since Game of Thrones is not D&D.

I would love to hear other's thoughts and character ideas but for simplicities sake I think we should leave it to single class, since you can make multiple different builds that accomplish what you want to prove by way of mechanics; when we should be comparing themes.

some others I've been thinking about: Jorah Mormont as Redemption Paladin, Bronn as Swashbuckler, Ramsay Bolton as Arcane Trickster, Barriston Selmy as Crown Paladin, etc etc

[ff7hero]

Ramsay isn't nearly clever enough for Arcane Trickster (he think he is, but that's another story). He's all about brutality, so I'd say some flavor of Barbarian makes the most sense. I'd probably reflavor one of the Totems as a dog/hound totem.

[EndlessKng]

Here's the thing about Arya, as far as the show goes - she's absolutely still an assassin because her main gimmick is the face changing. Assassins create identities, not unlike what the Faceless Men do. Yes, you could probably accurately simulate that with Alter or Disguise Self, but the fact remains that she's not just taking on new looks, she's developing lives to slip into. Taking an oath doesn't make you a paladin necessarily - it's a prerequisite, but not a guarantee. Further, while taking some liberties is understandable, GoT takes place in a world with relatively little magic overall - something like a single-class paladin is very clearly that, and Arya isn't playing with that kind of power. She dodges because she's nimble; she moves fast because she can, well, move fast (Dash actions). No magic needed for those tricks. Just call her a halfling due to being a child and you've got your base build. Even multiclassing I'd sooner go Fighter or even a couple levels of Illusionist Wizard before looking to Paladin too deeply.

[GeoffWatson]

The faceless men disguises are much better than mundane disguises - I'd say Arya is an Arcane Trickster, some minor (by D&D standards) magic to assist her disguises.
ATs still get sneak attack - she doesn't have to be a "capital A" Assassin to kill by surprise.

[Lunali]

The faceless men disguises are much better than mundane disguises - I'd say Arya is an Arcane Trickster, some minor (by D&D standards) magic to assist her disguises.
ATs still get sneak attack - she doesn't have to be a "capital A" Assassin to kill by surprise.

Rather than magic, I would say that in that world it is possible to become a changeling through training as that's effectively what the faceless men are.

[RSP]

Rather than magic, I would say that in that world it is possible to become a changeling through training as that's effectively what the faceless men are.

That ability isn’t really encompassed by any in 5e: you don’t become just anyone, you specifically take on the face/voice of someone who was killed and ritualistically preserved their face in a way that magically conveys the person’s likeness.

That would need to be home brewed to accurately portray. Disguise kit, Disguise Self and Alter Self are ways to mimic it, but those don’t really get the full impact of the GoT ability.

[MrStabby]

Hmm. I do see a feat spent on eldritch adept for mask of many faces.

Maybe just on a fighter - a dex based battlemaster maybe.

[Tanarii]

Rogue 2 -> Warlock (GoO) 2 (MoMF) -> Rogue X (Assassin)

Initial training in Kings Landing, then magical training by alien otherworldly entities, then back to roguing it up as she continues her adventures.

That's based on the books, which I gave up on reading after GRR sold out to HBO and effectively stopped writing them. The only part of the show I've watched after season one was the clip of Arya teleporting out of darkness to kill the night king. Cool clip, but I'm not sure if that means she has extreme magical powers in the show or not.

[Aett_Thorn]

A case could be made that Arya is a Whispers Bard. Using her faux sneak attack to assassinate people, spells for illusions and misdirection, and Mantle of Whispers for her ability to take on new personas. Plus, she kind gets creepy as hell later in the series, so it kinda fits.

[MaxWilson]

That ability isn’t really encompassed by any in 5e: you don’t become just anyone, you specifically take on the face/voice of someone who was killed and ritualistically preserved their face in a way that magically conveys the person’s likeness.

That would need to be home brewed to accurately portray. Disguise kit, Disguise Self and Alter Self are ways to mimic it, but those don’t really get the full impact of the GoT ability.

It could be a property of the mask. Maybe she just knows a magic item formula.


A case could be made that Arya is a Whispers Bard. Using her faux sneak attack to assassinate people, spells for illusions and misdirection, and Mantle of Whispers for her ability to take on new personas.

Remark: the one hour duration on Whisper Bard's Mantle of Whispers is so disappointing. It makes most of the things you'd like to do with the ability difficult to impossible. I only read Game of Thrones and skimmed up to A Storm of Swords so I'm not sure what Arya does with her face masks, but I'm pretty confident you couldn't replicate all of it with an hour-long Mantle of Whispers. You'd have to rush every interaction.

[RSP]

It could be a property of the mask. Maybe she just knows a magic item formula.


Could, though that’s still something that isn’t represented by any class.

[arnin77]

Just a reminder, trying to focus on the theme of the character not the mechanics. You can get her abilities a thousand different ways. Her main theme starting in season 1 or 2 is getting revenge on people who have wronged her and who she views as evil people. She makes a list and repeats it daily like it’s an oath. She doesn’t even get to the faceless men until season 5 or 6 and fails at being one in the end because she can’t let her “self” go. You can get a disguise kit or take magic initiate for disguise self etc etc etc.

[Nidgit]

Just because she vows vengeance doesn't mean she's a Vengeance Paladin. Arya doesn't display any of the other features a Vengeance Paladin has- no other spell-like features, no Extra Attack, no debuffs. I don't recall her defeating anyone in a fair fight either, implying that she relies on sneak attack damage to succeed. Your own argument can be used against you- plenty of D&D characters can swear vengeance against those who wronged them without being Vengeance Paladins.

I'd also disagree with Jorah Mormont being a Redemption Paladin. Mormont spends the whole story attempting to redeem himself: first to his family, then to Dany. A Redemption Paladin's main schtick is looking to redeem and find the good in others, which Mormont never ever does. He's far too focused on his own interests to be the most paragon of paladins.

[arnin77]

Just because she vows vengeance doesn't mean she's a Vengeance Paladin. Arya doesn't display any of the other features a Vengeance Paladin has- no other spell-like features, no Extra Attack, no debuffs. I don't recall her defeating anyone in a fair fight either, implying that she relies on sneak attack damage to succeed. Your own argument can be used against you- plenty of D&D characters can swear vengeance against those who wronged them without being Vengeance Paladins.

I'd also disagree with Jorah Mormont being a Redemption Paladin. Mormont spends the whole story attempting to redeem himself: first to his family, then to Dany. A Redemption Paladin's main schtick is looking to redeem and find the good in others, which Mormont never ever does. He's far too focused on his own interests to be the most paragon of paladins.

You’re arguing using mechanics.... extra attack, debuffs.... GoT is not D&D, she literally swears an oath of vengeance (you even say) which is her main goal throughout almost the whole show. For me, a Vengeance Paladin doesn’t need to show honor to those that have wronged them. They want an eye for an eye, which is not lawful nor justice. It’s CG in my interpretation. Also, lots of other characters swear vengeance but it’s not their main goal for the whole show...

As for Jorah, I’m not familiar with Redemption Paladin so maybe I interpreted it incorrectly.

[Tanarii]

For me, a Vengeance Paladin doesn’t need to show honor to those that have wronged them. They want an eye for an eye, which is not lawful nor justice. Thats not what Vengeance Paladins want.

"Paladins who uphold these tenets are willing to sacrifice even their own righteousness to mete out justice upon those who do evil, so the paladins are often neutral or lawful neutral in alignment"

[arnin77]

Thats not what Vengeance Paladins want.

"Paladins who uphold these tenets are willing to sacrifice even their own righteousness to mete out justice upon those who do evil, so the paladins are often neutral or lawful neutral in alignment"

Personally I don’t agree that they are LN. Vengeance is not Lawful in my eyes. To me, an Oath of the Crown would be LN, someone who follows orders because they are orders, whether they are moral or not, is LN. Someone who is pissed off that the rules dont work and evil people get off without punishment, break the rules to get retribution is more Chaotic. But I might be misinterpreting.

[Damon_Tor]

Arya is an DMPC who has whatever abilities the DM wants her to have. So yeah of course it's her that leaps in at the end and offs the BBEG no matter how much of an asspull. Everyone has played with that DM.

[arnin77]

Arya is an DMPC who has whatever abilities the DM wants her to have. So yeah of course it's her that leaps in at the end and offs the BBEG no matter how much of an asspull. Everyone has played with that DM.

Ya that was lame. I’m just rewatching seasons 5,6 and 7 now and I can see where the storylines turned to notes turned to “she just kills him”. No art to it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Personally Vengeance is not Lawful in my eyes. ~~~ But I might be misinterpreting. Yeah, might be. The excerpt from the PHB is pretty clear on that. Might want to keep one's frame of reference within the current edition of the game.

As an aside, it can be a challenge to port TV and movie characters into D&D. The discussions about Gandalf on this board have illustrated that nicely. One of the better variations I've seen is that Gandalf is a 12th or 13th level Bard, College of Lore. (Even though I'd place him as a Solar).
Tanarii's kit of 2 Rogue, 2 GoO warlock, Then Rogue X fits pretty well.

[Sception]

If I were trying to build Arya as aD&D character, I'd probably go for vengeance hexadin or whispers hexbard, with warlock providing mask of many faces. The result is more magical than Arya is in book, but then again most D&D settings are more magical than GoT land, so... *shrug*.

[Tanarii]

Personally I don’t agree that they are LN. Vengeance is not Lawful in my eyes. To me, an Oath of the Crown would be LN, someone who follows orders because they are orders, whether they are moral or not, is LN. Someone who is pissed off that the rules dont work and evil people get off without punishment, break the rules to get retribution is more Chaotic. But I might be misinterpreting.
It says they are willing to sacrifice their own righteousness. Which means they aren't holding themselves to things associated with the good alignments regularly. Not that they are (necessarily) comfortable with breaking law, tradition, and personal code regularly. Or they might be (in which case they wouldn't be Lawful Neutral, which is why it also says Neutral).

But it's difficult (but also not impossible) for a Paladin, who holds to a strong personal code in the form of their oath, to be one of the Chaotic alignments. If they are, there is the potential for tension in cases where their oath comes up. Which, of course, makes for interesting decision making (aka roleplaying)! IMO Ancients and Chaotic Good is the easiest to do it with.