Cheesy question about RAW in the Voyager class

[Segev]

The Voyager (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Voyager) is an interesting class focused on going fast and manipulating time in quirky ways. It's a gish, I think, and does that job pretty decently. One of its features, Channel Power, is essentially a variation on the Magus's ability to channel spells (though the Voyager can self-buff while attacking as an additional option to channeling a power into the attack to hit the enemy). It says, "When making her augmented attack, she can manifest a voyager power (spending power points normally) with a manifesting time of 1 standard action or less." (Emphasis added)

Now, this clearly means she can't use a Psion or Psychic Warrior power with this... ...but here's the cheesy question (which I am pretty sure the RAI on is "no"): If a power appears on the Voyager list, but the Voyager is a multiclass, psion or psychic warrior and knows the power from the other class, can they use it with this? Is it "a Voyager power" because it's a power a Voyager can know? Or is it a psion or psychic warrior power (only, and therefore not a Voyager power) since they learned it via a different class?

To put another way: does the class you learn the power with determine what kind of power it is, or does the mere fact of it appearing on the power list for a class make it a "class power?"

Obviously, ML is calculated per the class you learn it with (making multiclassing Voyager kind-of weak because nothing lets it stack MLs with anything else except for the Psionic Knack trait), but if you dip Voyager can you use your Psion or PsyWarrior powers that appear on the Voyager's list with your Psion or PsyWarrior ML via Channel Power?

Again, my expectation is "no."


Assuming the answer is "no" (or, really, even if it's "yes"), would a pair of feats for synergizing Nomad and Voyager that look like this be in line with the other "multiclassing feats" out there for psionics?

Far Wanderer
Your mind takes you across time, space, and planes.
Prerequisite: Must have the Nomad's Step feature and the Momentum feature.
Benefit: Your Nomad class levels count as Voyager levels for purposes of Momentum, and your Voyager class levels count as Nomad class levels for purposes of Nomad's Step.

Voyaging Nomad
Prerequisite: Fast Step feat, Manifestation of Speed feature
Benefit: Your Nomad and Voyager levels stack for purposes of calculating your manifester level in each class, and you may use powers known as a psion as if they were voyager powers when you use Manifestation of Speed to Channel Power.



Alternatively, unified as one feat:

Far Wanderer
Prerequisite: Nomad's Step and Manifestation of Speed
Benefit: Your Nomad class levels count as Voyager levels for purposes of Momentum, and your Voyager class levels count as Nomad class levels for purposes of Nomad's Step, and they are added together to calculate the manifester level of powers you know for either of them. When you use Manifestation of Speed to Channel Power, you may channel psion powers as well as voyager powers.

[Kurald Galain]

Is it "a Voyager power" because it's a power a Voyager can know? Or is it a psion or psychic warrior power (only, and therefore not a Voyager power) since they learned it via a different class?
The latter. If you can somehow cast off-list spells, it still works; but if you just dip and want to use it with another class's spell slots, it does not. This is the same as e.g. Blood Havoc.

(edit) relevant FAQ (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rdm).

[Segev]

The latter. If you can somehow cast off-list spells, it still works; but if you just dip and want to use it with another class's spell slots, it does not. This is the same as e.g. Blood Havoc.

For clarity, it’s not spell slots, and power points are agnostic between who casts what. But I think you were referring to powers known “slots” rather than what they’re cast with.

Likewise, even if you know a power twice, once as a voyager and once as a psion, you can’t use the psion’s ML if you’re using Channel Power, I assume.

[Powerdork]

Here's how I've been able to construct it based on an hour with Ultimate Psionics. I've dug up my password to sign in just for this one:

To manifest a power, you need to know it.
Psion/wilder powers and nomad discipline powers are class powers for a nomad, and they're considered psion powers. Voyager powers are class powers for a voyager.
You learn voyager powers as part of your voyager advancement, and they are powers known. Powers you learn from the psion powers known chart are also powers known. There are rules that specify that you can't use one manifester level for the other's powers. Your known powers aren't necessarily class powers for all the classes you have that have that power on their lists; you chose to learn the power as a nomad rather than as a voyager.

When you gain the Expanded Knowledge feat, you gain any one power known, as long as it's of a lower level than the highest-level power you can manifest. If it was already on a power list for a class you have, but you chose to learn it at a different level, it might or might not be a class power for that class; it's unclear.
It's not specified which manifester level and key ability you use, but presumably it's from one of the classes with which you qualified for the feat and the chosen power.

Body adjustment might count as a psion power (able to be used as part of manifestation of speed via Voyaging Nomad), but that might only be if you decide to learn the egoist version rather than the vitalist version. Unclear. If it isn't a psion power, it might be because it's instead treated as a voyager power, and usable with manifestation of speed.

Are you the GM in this scenario, or just noodling around with the class for fun?

[Segev]

Are you the GM in this scenario, or just noodling around with the class for fun?

The latter at the moment. I like how a lot of PF, particularly DSP’s stuff, has cross-class synergy enabled by feats. And I think Nomad, Voyager, and Elocater have obvious thematic synergy. But Boyher lacks much mechanical ability to multiclass effectively with anything due to the sharp limit on Momentum.

[StSword]

The latter at the moment. I like how a lot of PF, particularly DSP’s stuff, has cross-class synergy enabled by feats. And I think Nomad, Voyager, and Elocater have obvious thematic synergy. But Boyher lacks much mechanical ability to multiclass effectively with anything due to the sharp limit on Momentum.

At least they had the foresight to enable prestige classes that increase manifester level to add to momentum.

So at least a Voyager Elocator, Psychic Fist, Awakened Blade, or Dark Tempest are all covered.

Not sure how great all those options are, but I like options regardless.

[Segev]

At least they had the foresight to enable prestige classes that increase manifester level to add to momentum.

So at least a Voyager Elocator, Psychic Fist, Awakened Blade, or Dark Tempest are all covered.

Not sure how great all those options are, but I like options regardless.

I missed the bit about prestige classes that increase ML increasing Momentum. Thanks for pointing it out!

Edit: all I’m seeing is the rules for manifestation of speed running off of ML, nothing for increasing maximum momentum beyond actual Voyager levels. Where am I missing the interaction with PrCs?

[StSword]

You apparently missed the section appropriately entitled "Voyagers and prestige classes" :)

page 8- Every level that would increase manifester level increases the voyager's effective class level for maximum damage dice and momentum points. Other features such as speed increases and parallel actions are not advanced.

[Segev]

You apparently missed the section appropriately entitled "Voyagers and prestige classes" :)

page 8- Every level that would increase manifester level increases the voyager's effective class level for maximum damage dice and momentum points. Other features such as speed increases and parallel actions are not advanced.

I did, indeed, miss that section. I was looking for it in the Momentum or other class features sections. Thanks!

That means Voyager -> Elocater is pretty reasonably easy to do. I do need to think about whether it's worth more than a 1-level dip for Personal Gravity and Scorn Earth: those are the big things, and going back to Voyager keeps from losing more class features which Elocater gives a mostly...lackluster replacement for. It might be worth going up to Elocater 6 for getting psychoport and planar travel as 3rd-level powers, given Voyager's limited power point pool.

Less familiar with the monk cross and soulknife cross PrCs, so not sure how worth it they would be. I suppose it's a question of how much you want to improve damage either with unarmed attacks or with a summoned blade, rather than using momentum and augmented attack.

I don't really like monk or soulknife synergy with voyager; makes them MAD for Int and Wis. But maybe there's something interesting to be done there.

Aegis has Int-synergy, but I'm not sure how well the customizable astral suit works with the Voyager's other abilities. (Speed has an obvious aid of +5 ft., but I don't know that delaying the advancement of Acceleration is worth it.)

Edit to add:

Would the following be too much in a feat?

Nomadic Voyager
Prerequisites: Manifestation of Speed; Nomad's Step
Benefits: Your Nomad levels count as Voyager levels for purposes of the maximum Momentum you can obtain, and your Voyager levels count as Nomad levels for purposes of the distance you can teleport with Nomad's Step. Your manifester levels for Nomad and Voyager add together for both classes (but cannot exceed your hit dice), and your Psion powers count as Voyager powers for purposes of Voyager class features.
Special: Advancing either Voyager or Psion with a Prestige Class adds to the maximum Momentum you can obtain the same way it does for a normal Voyager advancing Voyager levels.