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View Full Version : item defence against magic (and some rebalancing issues around extra wealth)



King of Nowhere
2020-12-19, 08:56 PM
I am running a campaign in a high magic setting; and with high magic, i really mean lots of magic, with even the random joe on the street often having access to minor items. as part of this worldbuilding, magic gear is much more common, and everyone is well above wbl. I would appreciate some input to deal with some balancing issues around that.

the main change is that it is much easier to buy defence than attack. combat is significantly slower as everyone's armor is pumped up. this is a foreseen consequence, and one i intentionally wanted. Unfortunately, magic save or lose are not so heavily affected. with your extra loot you afforded a ring of protection, an amulet of natural armor, an upgrade to your armor. that's +3 to your ac. perhaps a +2 to CON, so you even have more hp. but you only could afford an extra +1 to your cloack of resistance. so all you have is an extra +1 to saving throws, which is nullified by the wizard being able to afford better headbands of intelligence. So, while the martials are missing way more often than before, the wizard is still dropping people most rounds.

the first possible response to that is immunities, and indeed they will become relevant - at an higher level. right now (level 5) it's still too early to have them. but more important, i don't like immunities too much. armor class is all right, you have a lesser chance to hit. you will deal less damage, defence is doing what's supposed to do. but immunity is all or nothing; you either are immune to the effect, in which case the caster was made useless, or you are not, and your expensive item was a waste of money.
furthermore, i have 2 casters in the party, and one is far more skilled than the other. if i play the "be prepared to go around immunities" game with the skilled player, the unskilled player will be left out and cornered into irrelevance.
elemental resistances are a good way to provide defence without nullifying an attack, but they do nothing for save or lose.

i could throw around spell resistance items; getting SR 13 is affordable, it's a significant (but not insormountable) protection against a level 5 wizard. by the time immunities will become widespread and the wizard will have other problems, this SR will become obsolete. this seems the better solution.
buffing saving throws is also viable, but how? there is a 30k gp ioun stone that provides a +1, too expensive at this point, and it does not scale. the luckblade provides a +1 luck, but that's also expensive and not scaling. other ways?

any other option to use that extra wealth in a way that will make spells less effective, without nullifying a caster entirely?

finally, since i'm here; so far, martials are still doing fine. but assuming they were having too hard time hitting at some point, how could i shore up their hit roll? that's also something that's hard to buff.

Biggus
2020-12-19, 10:32 PM
The main defences against magic (other than SR) are touch AC and saves. Perhaps make shields apply to touch AC? And/or make the Ghost Ward property in the MIC (which makes armor and shields' enhancement bonuses apply against touch attacks) into a fairly cheap flat cost instead of a +1 enhancement equivalent.

As for saves, there are lots of bonuses types which can improve them other than resistance (morale, luck, sacred/profane etc), you could make items which give those available. Even with the double cost, four +1 items is still a lot cheaper than one +4 item (7,000GP for a +1 resistance and 3 others, vs 16,000GP for a +4 resistance). Most of these bonus types are already available as Cleric spells (Conviction, Recitation, Hand of Divinity) so all you're doing is making them available to people who don't have a Cleric in the party.

Crake
2020-12-19, 11:31 PM
the issue lies with save or die spells as a mechanic. SR is penetrated by assay resistance or true casting, and high saves are negated by high save DCs. Doesn't matter what you boost, the fact is that the one spell has the potential to instantly end combat for that target.

If you don't want that, then it might be worth taking a page from pathfinder's book, and have the spells do damage instead.

King of Nowhere
2020-12-20, 01:53 AM
the issue lies with save or die spells as a mechanic. SR is penetrated by assay resistance or true casting, and high saves are negated by high save DCs. Doesn't matter what you boost, the fact is that the one spell has the potential to instantly end combat for that target.

If you don't want that, then it might be worth taking a page from pathfinder's book, and have the spells do damage instead.

if you have to cast true casting and true strike first, and suppress whatever immunity the target is sporting, then it's no longer one spell. as for high save dc, in my experience that never equates to instant win against worthy foes. if you have to cast a couple preparatory spells against your foe beforehand to make it work, it's not a problem. after all, the party beatstick can likely kill the same foe with a similar amount of actions devoted to attack.

Crake
2020-12-20, 02:31 AM
if you have to cast true casting and true strike first, and suppress whatever immunity the target is sporting, then it's no longer one spell. as for high save dc, in my experience that never equates to instant win against worthy foes. if you have to cast a couple preparatory spells against your foe beforehand to make it work, it's not a problem. after all, the party beatstick can likely kill the same foe with a similar amount of actions devoted to attack.

True casting is a standard action sure, but assay resistance is a swift action, so time to kill isn't particularly reduced. As for the DCs, casters will typically try and aim at whatever they think is the lowest save of their target, so unless you have high saves across the board, you're still likely in a pickle.