Thoughts on Level Progression for a Swash/Bladesinger

[Knighthood]

Hey All,

I'm trying to work out the best way to level up this character for a game I'm in. I'm not looking to min/max, or look to be "the best" at anything, but looking for a fun build but still with advice and some good feedback on good ways to optimize this character properly.

The Character: Half Elf (generic). Stats are (including Racial bonus): 10 / 18 / 15 / 16 / 12 / 12
Also, side note, HP is rolled except for first level. At lvl 2 I rolled a 7 on a d8. Lvl three, I have tentatively set it up for Wizard and rolled a d6 and got a 5. So as it stands, my health is 20 before mods (8+7+5), 26 total.

I started with Rogue for the first 2 levels, but now we've hit 3rd and I'm trying to decide if this is when I pick up Wiz and work towards Bladesinger. The group I'm with has: a Dragonborn Paladin, Hill Dwarf Druid, a Halfling Rogue (planning on staying ranged and going Arcane Trickster), a Kobold Artificer, a Human Wizard, and an elf Druid. The Paladin and the Dwarf Druid act as front liners along with my rogue. The rest of the group is ranged and support.

As I stated earlier, I'm thinking now at lvl 3 is a good time to start working on building out Wizard levels to get Bladesinger. I have no idea how long this campaign will go, so we're taking it one level at a time, and with that being said, does anybody have any advice for me as I level up this character. All thoughts/ comments/ critiques are welcomed. Thank you.

[Gignere]

Hey All,

I'm trying to work out the best way to level up this character for a game I'm in. I'm not looking to min/max, or look to be "the best" at anything, but looking for a fun build but still with advice and some good feedback on good ways to optimize this character properly.

The Character: Half Elf (generic). Stats are (including Racial bonus): 10 / 18 / 15 / 16 / 12 / 12
Also, side note, HP is rolled except for first level. At lvl 2 I rolled a 7 on a d8. Lvl three, I have tentatively set it up for Wizard and rolled a d6 and got a 5. So as it stands, my health is 20 before mods (8+7+5), 26 total.

I started with Rogue for the first 2 levels, but now we've hit 3rd and I'm trying to decide if this is when I pick up Wiz and work towards Bladesinger. The group I'm with has: a Dragonborn Paladin, Hill Dwarf Druid, a Halfling Rogue (planning on staying ranged and going Arcane Trickster), a Kobold Artificer, a Human Wizard, and an elf Druid. The Paladin and the Dwarf Druid act as front liners along with my rogue. The rest of the group is ranged and support.

As I stated earlier, I'm thinking now at lvl 3 is a good time to start working on building out Wizard levels to get Bladesinger. I have no idea how long this campaign will go, so we're taking it one level at a time, and with that being said, does anybody have any advice for me as I level up this character. All thoughts/ comments/ critiques are welcomed. Thank you.

I am also playing a rogue that I plan to multi into BS but an AT instead of Swashbuckler. I decided to go to level 4 on AT first and picked up Elven Accuracy, next I plan 6 levels of BS to grab the Extra Attack cantrip, than I will finish off with AT levels the campaign ends at level 15 so I will end up 9 AT / 6 BS.

My thinking was that at level 5 going BS was that instead of an extra d6 in sneak attack I will have an extra d8 in BB/GFB so my melee damage is not any less than a pure rogue. I will be giving up uncanny dodge but I do gain shield and absorb elements which should be about a wash in terms of defense. Gaining a bunch of rituals and a familiar should help my versatility.

By level 7 I can cast Shadowblade and still keep my melee DPR very competitive with a pure rogue. Level 8 I will grab sentinel for off turn sneaks. At level 10 I get a major bump in DPR with the extra attack / cantrip.

At level 11 I can stack both bladeward and uncanny and become really tough against enemies with one big hit. The capstone will be magical ambusher at 15.

That’s really my thinking on this so far.

[Knighthood]

I am also playing a rogue that I plan to multi into BS but an AT instead of Swashbuckler. I decided to go to level 4 on AT first and picked up Elven Accuracy, next I plan 6 levels of BS to grab the Extra Attack cantrip, than I will finish off with AT levels the campaign ends at level 15 so I will end up 9 AT / 6 BS.

My thinking was that at level 5 going BS was that instead of an extra d6 in sneak attack I will have an extra d8 in BB/GFB so my melee damage is not any less than a pure rogue. I will be giving up uncanny dodge but I do gain shield and absorb elements which should be about a wash in terms of defense. Gaining a bunch of rituals and a familiar should help my versatility.

By level 7 I can cast Shadowblade and still keep my melee DPR very competitive with a pure rogue. Level 8 I will grab sentinel for off turn sneaks. At level 10 I get a major bump in DPR with the extra attack / cantrip.

At level 11 I can stack both bladeward and uncanny and become really tough against enemies with one big hit. The capstone will be magical ambusher at 15.

That’s really my thinking on this so far.

Thanks for the feedback, so what are your planned ASI? I was quite happy with my rolls, so I'm not too hard pressed to want to spend it on Attributes, but I was thinking of things like Warcaster/Sentinal/Resilient (Con).

[Gignere]

Thanks for the feedback, so what are your planned ASI? I was quite happy with my rolls, so I'm not too hard pressed to want to spend it on Attributes, but I was thinking of things like Warcaster/Sentinal/Resilient (Con).

I got Elven Accuracy and it is rainbows and sunshine and everything delicious. I went two combats without a single miss as long as you can get advantage fairly consistently. You definitely also notice you are rolling crits a lot more as well.

Like I said sentinel will be my next feat, but I am undecided on my third feat as of right now, it’s probably either resilient con or fighting initiate to nab blindfighting.

I don’t think you need both warcaster and resilient con.

[Knighthood]

I got Elven Accuracy and it is rainbows and sunshine and everything delicious.

I do like Elven Accuracy, and possibly because of the size of my group getting into flanking position isn't as hard so that would help set my character up for advantage attacks. However, I'm playing around with a 12 BS/ 8 Swash mix to get 6th lvl spell slot, while also getting ASI from Rogue at 8. Which gives me 5 ASI total (though not sure if my character will ever get to 20, so aiming more at lvl 12, so breakout would be something like 8 BS / 4 Rogue.

Because my Con is at a 15, I feel compelled to get Resilient (Con) to help push it to the next tier, but Warcaster is amazing (not just for the concentration help) because instead of making an opportunity attack as a reaction, I can cast a spell as a reaction (casting time 1 action). Combined with Sentinel, then that means that I can use my reaction to cast a spell attack onto the enemy that is attack an ally! Though I think some debate with a DM for overall allowance would be needed, however by taking those two feats it would seem justified.

[Gignere]

I do like Elven Accuracy, and possibly because of the size of my group getting into flanking position isn't as hard so that would help set my character up for advantage attacks. However, I'm playing around with a 12 BS/ 8 Swash mix to get 6th lvl spell slot, while also getting ASI from Rogue at 8. Which gives me 5 ASI total (though not sure if my character will ever get to 20, so aiming more at lvl 12, so breakout would be something like 8 BS / 4 Rogue.

Because my Con is at a 15, I feel compelled to get Resilient (Con) to help push it to the next tier, but Warcaster is amazing (not just for the concentration help) because instead of making an opportunity attack as a reaction, I can cast a spell as a reaction (casting time 1 action). Combined with Sentinel, then that means that I can use my reaction to cast a spell attack onto the enemy that is attack an ally! Though I think some debate with a DM for overall allowance would be needed, however by taking those two feats it would seem justified.

I don’t think you can combo sentinel like that with WC because sentinel off turn attack when triggered by an attack on an ally isn’t an opportunity attack.

[Knighthood]

Right, but what it does open up is the idea that your "Reaction" can be used to cast a spell (which is where the conversation with a DM would play in).

Warcaster states "You can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature", however that creature had to move and provoke an opportunity attack.

Sentinel states "When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target does not have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature".

To me, that opens up the door to say that you, the player character, can now do the following as a reaction:

1. Attack a creature that provokes an AO, that attack can be a single melee attack or a single spell attack that has a casting time of 1 action.
2. You can attack a target that is attacking another target other than you and within 5 feet. The attack is a melee weapon attack.

By looking at these two together, Warcaster expands the ability of what "Reaction" can do, and same with Sentinel. Warcaster opens the door for more than a melee attack, and Sentinel opens up "Reaction" to be when a target attacks another target.

Again, this is why I say it would be discussed with your DM for allowance, but it does have support that your uses of your Reaction is improved by taking these feats.

Taking this even further into developing "Reactions" you pick up Mage Slayer, which allows you to use your Reaction to make a melee attack on the caster as a reaction.

Overall, its the DM's discretion (and/or WOTC) to Rule Lawyer the concept of "Reaction" and whether or not you can expand its uses. Additionally, if the character can do it, so can the enemy.

[Gignere]

Right, but what it does open up is the idea that your "Reaction" can be used to cast a spell (which is where the conversation with a DM would play in).

Warcaster states "You can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature", however that creature had to move and provoke an opportunity attack.

Sentinel states "When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target does not have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature".

To me, that opens up the door to say that you, the player character, can now do the following as a reaction:

1. Attack a creature that provokes an AO, that attack can be a single melee attack or a single spell attack that has a casting time of 1 action.
2. You can attack a target that is attacking another target other than you and within 5 feet. The attack is a melee weapon attack.

By looking at these two together, Warcaster expands the ability of what "Reaction" can do, and same with Sentinel. Warcaster opens the door for more than a melee attack, and Sentinel opens up "Reaction" to be when a target attacks another target.

Again, this is why I say it would be discussed with your DM for allowance, but it does have support that your uses of your Reaction is improved by taking these feats.

Taking this even further into developing "Reactions" you pick up Mage Slayer, which allows you to use your Reaction to make a melee attack on the caster as a reaction.

Overall, its the DM's discretion (and/or WOTC) to Rule Lawyer the concept of "Reaction" and whether or not you can expand its uses. Additionally, if the character can do it, so can the enemy.

DMs can allow anything but as written it doesn’t work. I don’t think it would fly in organized play either but I can only comment on combos that are rules legal because if we talk about illegal combos there are many things that can be done and will be broken AF.

[Knighthood]

DMs can allow anything but as written it doesnÂ’t work.

I respect your consideration, but still feel that the way "Reactions" is worded allows for interpretation. Unless there is a finite response from WoTC on what feats are synergistic with each other and which ones are not, I think its open for debate.

I'm still under the impression that the concept of Reaction is what opens this doorway. The PHB says "A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's."

If you're able to cast a spell because somebody begins to move away and change focus from you, why can you not cast a spell as a reaction targeting somebody who is also not focused on you but is attacking somebody else?



I donÂ’t think it would fly in organized play either but I can only comment on combos that are rules legal because if we talk about illegal combos there are many things that can be done and will be broken AF.
And its not necessarily broken, or illegal, because there was never any rule exclusively prohibiting it, at least none that I could find. Overall, feats a character pick up expand their abilities, in this case it expands how the character can react to triggers using their one and only Reaction per turn.