Immortality for a commoner in a low-magic world

[Conradine]

The setting is similar to Greyhawk, just low magic. No magic academies except - mabye - in large cities, very few spellcasters, most town priests are just experts or - at the very best - adepts. Druids are few and even more reclusive than usual.
The only truly powerful spellcasters are dragons, and they are few and far in between.

There are monasteries and religious hermitages, and they have books. Temples have books too. Even merchant of average wealth can have a few books, so do nobles. But for the most, people are illiterate and superstitious.

Anyhow, magic exists, artifact do exists, outer planes do exists, with fiend and angels and elementals and the like.
It just not that common. Very few people doubt that magic exists but they don't get to see it often. Even fewer have even a vague ( correct ) idea of what it is and how it works.

Undead monster do exist and, although not common, spontaneous animation of killers, madmen and overly greedy or rapacious people happens. Just often enough to make cemeteries very scary places, that are usually built with thick walls and far from the villages.

- - -

Here we have our character.

He wants to live forever.

He's just a common John Doe, a human farmer with no special heritage or bloodlines.
He gifted with no exceptional talent or unusual skill.
He spends his time studying at the temple or training with the militia, so he's just a bit tougher and smart than your average Joe ( say, 12 in every ability ).
He saves every penny, waste noting in taverns and builds his equipement alone, so he can have - much - better starting gear than an average person.
He knows very little of the world and to distinguish facts from supertition without direct experimentation is really hard.
He's patient and determined, amoral and adaptable. He'll do whatever it takes, minimizing the risks as much as possible.



What's the most plausible plan such a character could enact to fulflill his quest for eternity?

( no cheesy exploits, something that resembles verisimilitude in the setting )

[Doctor Despair]

You could basically make this the backstory for Wedded to History if you wanted. The society he lives in IS the ancient society described in the feat; he is such a representative, archetypal figure of a citizen that his lifespan somehow became tied to the history of the land somehow.

Alternatively: adventure until level 3 and take Necropolitan. Use your meticulously-saved WBL to hire adventurers to babysit you and make sure you don't die until then

[lylsyly]

Really have to be Human? Just be a Killoren ;-)

[Maat Mons]

Some of the easiest core ways to gain eternal unlife are:

Die from level drain
Get bitten by a ghoul, but don't get killed by it, then die of Ghoul Fever
Get killed by a Shadow
Get killed by a Spectre
Get killed by a Vampire
Get killed by a Wight
Get killed by a Wraith

And really, getting killed by a wight is practically inevitable in any low-magic setting. The very first Adept or Magewright who learns the Fell Drain metamagic feat is going to set off an apocalypse where everyone is killed by wights.

[liquidformat]

If he went to a monastery and became a monk at level 6 he could become a Cloud Anchorite and by level 16 he would be immortal, that doesn't require any magic or cheese just one class, one prc and 16 levels.

[Segev]

Saved his money until he could bribe the Elan council to make him an Elan.

Worked his obsession to live forever into building himself a desecrated, elaborate tomb with an altar to Orcus inside. Committed ritual suicide focusing on his unfinished business of living forever. Comes back as a ghost.

Spend his time and money researching what the nearest vampire seeks in spawn and made himself an ideal candidate.

Joined the church of Evening Glory and made big donations for the privilege of undeath.

Bought an item that casts Astral Projection once per day, and used it before getting his body petrified. Re-projects every time his astral body is slain.

[Particle_Man]

Pay a bard to write an awesome set of stories and songs about him that are so good that he will have immortality through the ages. At least a sort of immortality.

[AvatarVecna]

I'll not be looking for the optimized path to immortality with Joe. He's gonna earn it without cheesing his way into it.

Joe's mama didn't raise no fool, but she didn't raise no genius eityer. Joe figures that important people tend to live longer than they should, so maybe becoming important will lead him to immortality. And to become important, he needs to become powerful. And to become powerful, he needs to win fights. Joe doesn't know why this works, it's just a fact of his world.

Joe uses his youth to do some research and practice what things he think will be useful when he goes out to fight things. Joe figures that if you throw the first punch, you get to punch the other guy more times than he punches you, and that means you're more likely to win, especially if you pick fights with people weaker than you. All that's just common sense, so Joe focuses on getting real good at punching first.

Joe does some research about monsters. He finds out a few useful things: first, most monsters are really friggin' weird, and he's not sure if he'll ever be able to take them in a fight with just his trusty stick skills, he'd probably need serious magic to tangle with the likes of some of these beasts. Second, some monsters are just weird enough that he's not able to find much info on them at all. If the library doesn't have much info on them, then Joe doesn't know how tough they are, and Joe doesn't know if he can take 'em, so he's not gonna bother trying. In this regard, Joe decides to focus his research on what's pretty easy to figure out - primarily, dumb animals and bugs. He focuses on learning how to approach such creatures, and which ones to attack to minimize the chances of retaliation. Joe decides to hunt birds starting out, getting paid by people to chase them off out of fields and the like. It's not great money, especially because Joe refuses to cheat people, but that's the reality of life.

We'll assume Joe has max HP, because quite frankly he deserves a chance. He lives in a home his family has owned for awhile, and eats crow frequently (the ones he killed). It's not great, but it means that the only costs he has starting out will be ammunition.

Human Commoner 1

Attributes: 12/12/12/12/12/10

Feats:
HD 1: Improved Initiative
Human 1: Education
Flaw 1: Skill Focus (Profession/Hunter)
Flaw 1: Honest Merchant

Traits:
Aggressive
Specialized (Profession/Hunter)


Flaws:
Pathetic Charisma
Weak Will


Skills:
Knowledge/Arcana 1 (+2)
Knowledge/Local 1 (+2)
Knowledge/Nature 4 (+5)
Knowledge/Religion 1 (+2)
Knowledge/The Planes 1 (+2)
Listen 4 (+5)
Profession/Hunter 4 (+10)
Spot 4 (+5)


Equipment: Sling, 20 gp

Init +7
Speed 30 ft
AC 10
HP 5
Sling (RI 1): +1, 1d4, 20/x2, 0-50 ft
Sling (RI 2): -1, 1d4, 20/x2, 51-100 ft
Sling (RI 3): -3, 1d4, 20/x2 101-150 ft
Sling (RI 4): -5, 1d4, 20/x2 151-200 ft
Sling (RI 5): -7, 1d4, 20/x2 201-250 ft

Joe starts out hunting ravens (and similarly sized birds). He sneaks up a ways, then runs into the "no penalty range" during a surprise round, and shoots a single raven that didn't beat him on initiative. After all of them fly off, he retrieves the sling bullet (if it hasn't shattered), and continues. Joe hits FFAC on 11, so 50% of the time. And 50% of the time, a bullet breaks after firing. So he permanently loses one bullet for every crow he kills.

My process from here will be that Joe makes a profession check for a "week" to see how much money he makes proportionally for a particular day. He'll turn some money into sling bullets, turn some sling bullets into dead crows, and turn some dead crows into XP and profession money, such that the money he makes that day will just barely cover the sling bullet expenses.

Day 1: Joe makes ~146 cp. He kills 14 crows (14 total). He has 6 cp profit.
Day 2: Joe makes ~146 cp. He kills 14 crows (28 total). He has 6 cp profit. He levels up.
Day 3: Joe makes ~153 cp. He kills 15 crows (43 total). He has 3 cp profit.
Day 4: Joe makes ~153 cp. He kills 15 crows (58 total). He has 3 cp profit.
Day 5: Joe makes ~153 cp. He kills 15 crows (73 total). He has 3 cp profit. He levels up.
Day 6: Joe makes ~160 cp. He kills 16 crows (89 total). He has 0 cp profit.
Day 7: Joe makes ~160 cp. He kills 16 crows (105 total). He has 0 cp profit.
Day 8: Joe makes ~160 cp. He kills 16 crows (121 total). He has 0 cp profit. He levels up.
Day 9: Joe makes ~167 cp. He kills 16 crows (137 total). He has 7 cp profit.
Day 10: Joe makes ~167 cp. He kills 16 crows (153 total). He has 7 cp profit.
Day 11: Joe makes ~167 cp. He kills 16 crows (169 total). He has 7 cp profit.
Day 12: Joe makes ~167 cp. He kills 16 crows (185 total). He has 7 cp profit.
Day 13: Joe makes ~167 cp. He kills 16 crows (201 total). He has 7 cp profit. He levels up.
Day 14: Joe makes 175 cp. He kills 17 crows (218 total). He has 5 cp profit.
Day 15: Joe makes 175 cp. He kills 17 crows (235 total). He has 5 cp profit.
Day 16: Joe makes 175 cp. He kills 17 crows (252 total). He has 5 cp profit.
Day 17: Joe makes 175 cp. He kills 17 crows (269 total). He has 5 cp profit.
Day 18: Joe makes 175 cp. He kills 17 crows (286 total). He has 5 cp profit.
Day 19: Joe makes 175 cp. He kills 17 crows (303 total). He has 5 cp profit. He levels up.
Day 20: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 18 crows (321 total). He makes 2 cp profit.
Day 21: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 18 crows (339 total). He makes 2 cp profit.
Day 22: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 18 crows (357 total). He makes 2 cp profit.
Day 23: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 18 crows (375 total). He makes 2 cp profit.
Day 24: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 18 crows (393 total). He makes 2 cp profit.
Day 25: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 18 crows (411 total). He makes 2 cp profit.
Day 26: Joe makes ~182 cp. He kills 10 crows (421 total). He makes 82 cp profit. He levels up.

Not even four weeks into Joe's quest for immortality, he is 7th level and has 21.8 gp in the bank. The 421st crow he killed didn't make him feel even the tiniest bit stronger or smarter, so he figures he's moved past them by now. More usefully, though, along the way, Joe has gotten himself a girlfriend who is quite impressed with his dedication to wiping out pests: a lovely Elf Fighter 5 gal who's actually useful in fights. Joe tells her that he's gotta move on to bigger fights, and she knows just how dangerous that kinda stuff is, so she insists on helping him out going forward, if he's gonna get himself into trouble like that. Joe's of the opinion that he doesn't need much in the way of material possessions in this world, so he agrees on one condition: if she's helping him fight, they both know she's gonna end up doing a lot of the work, so it's only fair she should take the lion's share of any treasure they find. She accepts, and accompanies Joe on his quest for immortality.

From here, Joe can no longer get XP from ravens he can one-shot, but that honestly doesn't matter: any encounter just strong enough to give Joe XP is one that his girl can absolutely wreck, so from here we'll assume a super-relaxed 1 absurdly-weak encounter per day without bothering to stat them out. Joe ends up focused on non-combat stuff, dipping into face skills and knowledge skills that his optimized fighter gf doesn't really bother with. He's not great at them, but he's better than her so she's starstruck at how suave and smart he's getting.

I will spare you the full math. Let it suffice to say that, 547 days later, Joe is lvl 21, with his girl at lvl 19. He picks up what he's been building towards forever: Extended Life Span (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan). This adds 40 years to each of his age categories, or 120 years total to his life span. He takes the feat every 3 levels ups afterwards, which takes 120 days each time. So every day he and his girl adventure, he effectively adds one year to his life span on average. At what point do they decide they've adventured enough? At what point is Joe immortal enough to the ravages of time? That's up to you.

[Conradine]

Alternatively: adventure until level 3 and take Necropolitan.

In a low magic world Necropolitans may not even exist.
Even if they exist, it would be in a single, remote location in the whole world, probably well hidden and inaccessible. Even knowing Necropolitans do exist - if they exist at all - would be difficult in the extreme.

Common knowledge mixed with folklore and superstition extends to ghouls, ghosts, revenants, morghs, allip, shadows, vampires; mabye wights and wraiths, mabye ghasts ( often confused with ghouls ). Lich would be almost unheard or the stuff of legends.



Some of the easiest core ways to gain eternal unlife are:


Eternal death isn't the same thing as eternal life.
Beside that, it raises the question "is the undead really the same person as before or just a monster who inhabits the same body?".




Pay a bard to write an awesome set of stories and songs about him that are so good that he will have immortality through the ages. At least a sort of immortality.

“I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. I don't want to live on in the hearts of my countrymen; I want to live on in my apartment.”
- Woody Allen

[Khedrac]

Joe starts out hunting ravens (and similarly sized birds). He sneaks up a ways, then runs into the "no penalty range" during a surprise round, and shoots a single raven that didn't beat him on initiative. After all of them fly off, he retrieves the sling bullet (if it hasn't shattered), and continues. Joe hits FFAC on 11, so 50% of the time. And 50% of the time, a bullet breaks after firing. So he permanently loses one bullet for every crow he kills.
Close but wrong, Joe is losing 1.5 bullets per kill:
Ammunition always breaks on a hit, it only has a 50% chance of breaking on a miss.

A bullet that hits its target is destroyed; one that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

On the other hand, Joe can use stones (pebbles) in his sling for -1 to hit, one dice smaller damage and they are free!

You can hurl ordinary stones with a sling, but stones are not as dense or as round as bullets. Thus, such an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category smaller than you and you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls.

Except, that if I was a DM I would rule "no xp" for the crows from the start - if there is no danger (the animal always flees) why is there experience?

[AvatarVecna]

Close but wrong, Joe is losing 1.5 bullets per kill:
Ammunition always breaks on a hit, it only has a 50% chance of breaking on a miss.


On the other hand, Joe can use stones (pebbles) in his sling for -1 to hit, one dice smaller damage and they are free!


Except, that if I was a DM I would rule "no xp" for the crows from the start - if there is no danger (the animal always flees) why is there experience?

You make a good point about the ammo, although that just slows down the process, it's not a lynchpin that unseats it entirely. But also, how you'd personally rule it is irrelevant. By default he gets the XP - it's entirely possible that the XP is purely a measure of target practice and his aim improving over time. It's not Joe's fault the enemy is choosing to run instead of standing their ground and fighting to the death.

But let's be super-fair. Let's change the approach. Joe picks a fight with a single bird at a time, not engaging a flock. The raven fights to the death, and Joe wins because ravens are weak and hebhas the benefit of a ranged weapon. This victory costs him 5sp per raven and all but 1 HP. He limps home and rests forba solid two days before picking a fight with another individual raven. Joe makes more orofit but has to spend more on food hecause two ravens a weak doesn't keep him fed.

And it still doesn't matter: 1260 days later, Joe is fully healed up after fighting his 420th raven to the death properly. He is now 7th lvl, and is now 21.45 years old instead of the 18.07 years he was before. He is still quite far away from Middle-Aged. He still has a kickass gf that mechanically cannot steal his XP and can win fights for him. He still reaches epic by the time he's 22.95 (instead of the previous 19.57).

Joe's quest has been slowed 3.5 years by this change, and now he actually had to fight those ravens, even if that "fight" is now only very slightly less one-sided than it was before.

(If I'm being perfectly honest, even the Fighter cohort is only necessary because Joe is a commoner. If he were even an Expert, Knowledge Devotion and Improved Initiative would give him a solid chance at taking down beatsticks just strong enough to give him XP without that extra help).

[unseenmage]

From Dragon #357
there is the Wishfern. it will grant a wish for an appropriate skill check.

Thing is plants are objects for the purposes of spells. So you could conjure one with any spell that conjures objects.

Alternatively, just go out and find one in the wild somewhere. Proper skill point allotment can explain a lot of shenaniganery when necessary.


Tahtoalehti (Wishfern)
Tahtoalehti - the most treasured, yet hardest to raise, of all magical plants - also goes by the common name of wishfern. Tahtoalehti closely resembles ferns from the temperate rainforests of the northern coasts, save that it grows much larger and into a deeper, darker shade of green. This incredible fern marries the power of magic with the plant kingdom's ability to restore itself and draw energy from the sun.

A tahtaolehti plant only blooms once every 5d100 years, and always on the night of the winter solstice. For that one night, the wishfern wears a flower of unparalleled beauty, a fist-sized blossom of luminous white. The blossom contains incredible power, for if properly harvested without bruise or damage (requiring a DC 40 Profession [gardener] check) it grants one wish, as the spell cast by a 20th-level sorcerer. With the coming of the sun the blossom withers and disintegrates, living behind a single seed, whether or not it granted a wish.

Notoriously difficult to grow, in part because it requires almost total absence of contact, a tahtaolehti only blooms in an isolated forest setting at least 500 miles from any other wishfern. Planting or transplanting a viable seed without killing it requires a DC 40 Knowledge (nature) or Profession (gardener) check. Once planted, a wishfern is best left alone, as the merest touch from a living creature can kill it. Whenever a living creature touches a wishfern without first succeeding at a DC 40 Profession (gardener) check, the plant must attempt a DC 12 Fort save (with a +0 bonus) or die. As a result, most growers protect their tahtoalehti with spells and natural barriers rather than guards. Any attempt to coax a wishfern to produce its blossom early or to push it to produce multiple blossoms at once results in the immediate death of the plant.

A single healthy seed sells for 25,000 gp.

[Doctor Despair]

I seem to recall there were rules for ritual sacrifice that allow you to create magical effects up to 7th level. Limited Wish can do a lot; there was a whole thread on it.

[Conradine]

John, not Joe. :)

Anyhow, he starts as a commoner but he can retrain at any time - provided good mentorship and equipment.

-

About the Wishfern, if it's so easy to kill and always leaves a single seed at best it should go extinct almost immediately.
Something must be change to allow it to exist at all.

[Gavinfoxx]

A smidge derivative, don't you think?

http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179
http://web.archive.org/web/20100131013259/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z9NJIs751Af3i0IEIJwCkIp9H9YFiZYZ7u-wmYVaheI/edit?usp=sharing

[Segev]

A smidge derivative, don't you think?

http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179
http://web.archive.org/web/20100131013259/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z9NJIs751Af3i0IEIJwCkIp9H9YFiZYZ7u-wmYVaheI/edit?usp=sharing

People come up with similar ideas to old ones all the time. Pointing them to prior discussions on the topic is helpful. Being dismissive or insulting while doing so is not. Those look like nice resources to help answer his question, but are not a reason he shouldn't have asked it in the first place.

[Gavinfoxx]

People come up with similar ideas to old ones all the time. Pointing them to prior discussions on the topic is helpful. Being dismissive or insulting while doing so is not. Those look like nice resources to help answer his question, but are not a reason he shouldn't have asked it in the first place.

I was more thinking of the 'using a commoner with simple name as an illustrative example as part of enhancing them to be better' as a, well, reference to my handbook?

[AvatarVecna]

I was more thinking of the 'using a commoner with simple name as an illustrative example as part of enhancing them to be better' as a, well, reference to my handbook?

I think you're presuming you're more well-known than you are. It's extremely common for discussions to start with "can we turn a commoner into a [caster/god/immortal]", and frequently they're given basic super-common names to emphasize their commoner-ness (usually Bob, Joe, or John Doe). You didn't exactly invent that idea, it's kinda the default for any online discussion about actually making use of the commoner class - the only notable exception being Madness, who's name is weird specifically because he's optimizing his name on purpose.

Similarly, I'm not claiming to have invented the concept of leveling up to epic in an absurdly short period of time - not just because doing so is the basic premise of most D&D games, but because I'm nowhere near the first person to observe this phenomenon.

[Conradine]

The premise is different here.

It's not "what rules sheningans can be used to uber-optimize a Commoner ( NPC class )".
It's " what could plausibly do a common person with average means and access to information in his pursuit of immortality".


For example, basic question:

how tell true knowledge from superstition?

[Gavinfoxx]

The premise is different here.

It's not "what rules sheningans can be used to uber-optimize a Commoner ( NPC class )".
It's " what could plausibly do a common person with average means and access to information in his pursuit of immortality".


For example, basic question:

how tell true knowledge from superstition?


Well... those are the methods in the system. The best they'd find is probably some means of becoming a common type of intelligent undead, perhaps. And, uh, getting trained and taking 10 on appropriate knowledge checks, with the use of a library? But they'd probably have to be Expert or Aristocrat class, really.

[Crake]

You make a good point about the ammo, although that just slows down the process, it's not a lynchpin that unseats it entirely. But also, how you'd personally rule it is irrelevant. By default he gets the XP - it's entirely possible that the XP is purely a measure of target practice and his aim improving over time. It's not Joe's fault the enemy is choosing to run instead of standing their ground and fighting to the death.

But let's be super-fair. Let's change the approach. Joe picks a fight with a single bird at a time, not engaging a flock. The raven fights to the death, and Joe wins because ravens are weak and hebhas the benefit of a ranged weapon. This victory costs him 5sp per raven and all but 1 HP. He limps home and rests forba solid two days before picking a fight with another individual raven. Joe makes more orofit but has to spend more on food hecause two ravens a weak doesn't keep him fed.

And it still doesn't matter: 1260 days later, Joe is fully healed up after fighting his 420th raven to the death properly. He is now 7th lvl, and is now 21.45 years old instead of the 18.07 years he was before. He is still quite far away from Middle-Aged. He still has a kickass gf that mechanically cannot steal his XP and can win fights for him. He still reaches epic by the time he's 22.95 (instead of the previous 19.57).

Joe's quest has been slowed 3.5 years by this change, and now he actually had to fight those ravens, even if that "fight" is now only very slightly less one-sided than it was before.

(If I'm being perfectly honest, even the Fighter cohort is only necessary because Joe is a commoner. If he were even an Expert, Knowledge Devotion and Improved Initiative would give him a solid chance at taking down beatsticks just strong enough to give him XP without that extra help).

Couldn't you skip the whole killing crows thing and instead get straight to the companion with wild cohort? Then have your animal companion kill things like foxes that are hunting chickens with the animal companion, or something similar? Seems something like that would be more conducive to actually generating xp over killing ravens.

[ShurikVch]

Well, if leveling isn't forbidden, then Epic Destinies (https://web.archive.org/web/20090218080723/http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080428) is an option even for Commoner

Another variant:
Get CL 1+ (feat/racial/template/etc)
Try to succeed DC 25 and 28 checks on Knowledge (arcana)
Undergo the Rite of the Blot
Take the Far Look feat
Celebrate your success with copious amount of hard alcoholCongratulation!
You are in the Far Realm now!
And, since the Far Realm is a timeless plane, you wouldn't ever get old (or, for that matter, sober :smallamused:)

[Asmotherion]

The most plosible way to "exist" forever would be as an undead that retains most of his personality. And to do so, maybe "taunt" any existing undead by being a devout servant of a god who hates undead, and even spread false rumors that your worst nightmare is becoming one of them; An intelligent undead has a high potential to take it personally, and try to turn you into one of it's kind, if anything, just as punishment or as a sick joke.

Similarly, to become able to Live for ever, he could find a way to strike a bargain with a Devil; A few extra years as payment for any mission they fullfil in the fiend's interests.

In most settings, that seems to be the most easy to come by, that don't really require you to know any magic, just be present at a spot were a Devil spawns, show proper respect and maybe know how to pick up rummors to find the right place to be.

[AvatarVecna]

Couldn't you skip the whole killing crows thing and instead get straight to the companion with wild cohort? Then have your animal companion kill things like foxes that are hunting chickens with the animal companion, or something similar? Seems something like that would be more conducive to actually generating xp over killing ravens.

It was more about circumventing a very particular argument I expected to come up: "well Joe isn't even really doing the fighting anymore so he doesn't get XP". Leadership directly addresses how cohorts interact with XP, and Wild Cohort doesn't. I'd imagine that Wild Cohort would be a pretty solid option for a commoner like Joe, and would be the best lvl 1 feat for making sure he can fight actual threats and level up quicker. But for me personally, I prefer that he does the early parts on his own, and attracts a girlfriend because he's got an absurd kill-count, rather than because he's got a dog with an absurd kill-count.

[Crake]

It was more about circumventing a very particular argument I expected to come up: "well Joe isn't even really doing the fighting anymore so he doesn't get XP". Leadership directly addresses how cohorts interact with XP, and Wild Cohort doesn't. I'd imagine that Wild Cohort would be a pretty solid option for a commoner like Joe, and would be the best lvl 1 feat for making sure he can fight actual threats and level up quicker. But for me personally, I prefer that he does the early parts on his own, and attracts a girlfriend because he's got an absurd kill-count, rather than because he's got a dog with an absurd kill-count.

I mean, we all know dogs help picking up the ladies :smalltongue:

[Particle_Man]

What scares him about the afterlife? Was he a particularly evil commoner that fears punishment?

Because a good commoner gets a pretty good deal.

[Conradine]

What scares him about the afterlife? Was he a particularly evil commoner that fears punishment?


He feels that fading in the afterlife means cessation of existence, just slower than instant destruction.
Beside that, he asks himself " Even if the soul survives the body - and who know for how long? - would my soul still be myself? Am I not my soul, body and mind at the same time? What if my soul alone is not more 'me' than my corpse would be? ".

Also he just wants to live. Irrationally, desperately.

[Yak folklore]

Not sure if someone has said it, but there is a 9th level wizard spell for strait immortality, in the same dragon mag as the wedded to history feat, precedent for hired caster makes it cheaper then you might think, but if I were dm I'd raise it for the rare archmage in a low magic, but it is a very simple path to immortality.

[Elysiume]

Not sure if someone has said it, but there is a 9th level wizard spell for strait immortality, in the same dragon mag as the wedded to history feat, precedent for hired caster makes it cheaper then you might think, but if I were dm I'd raise it for the rare archmage in a low magic, but it is a very simple path to immortality.
I don't think that's an option:

The only truly powerful spellcasters are dragons, and they are few and far in between.
"Ask a wizard to do it" seems like it's off the table here.

[Jack_Simth]

Because a good commoner gets a pretty good deal.Not really.

In standard 3.5 D&D, you become a petitioner.
1) Most petitioners lose all memory of their life. Are you really you anymore if you don't remember anything that you remember now?
2) Petitioners eventually merge with their plane of residence. What's left of you after that?
So... you still die completely, it just takes longer.

Also of note: Doesn't require actually being good. If you do find that route acceptable, any worshiper of a deity goes to that deity's realm by default, and a person can worship a deity up to two steps away (one for most Divine casters, but that hardly applies to a commoner-1). Among other things, this means a LE person can worship a LG deity, and get an LG afterlife. A NE person can worship a NG deity, and get a NG afterlife. A CE person can worship a CG deity, and get a CG afterlife. Avoiding "the fire below" isn't actually that difficult in D&D 3.5.

[Fitz10019]

Perhaps he plans to ingratiate himself to the God of Death, so that He/She wants him drumming up business on the mortal plane long-term. That's plan a commoner could come up with (well, at least, I just did): Gods have desires, how can I get One's favor?

[Calthropstu]

Otha and Azash perhaps?