Help Me Craft My Personal Isekai

[Maat Mons]

There have been may isekai threads on this forum. In fact, we're pretty close to that 1-level-per-year one rearing its head again.

Anyway, the particular isekai that's been on my mind is a Pathfinder Sorcerer 20 with the Imperious bloodline in a generic D&D world. I think I might have submitted that to one of the threads. But I don't remember.

I'm really having trouble deciding on feats, spells known, and to a lesser extent skill points.



There are some things I'm pretty sure on.

Obviously, I want full casting. But I don't want to be dependent on some book or remaining in a deity's good graces. So I think that pretty much limits me to Sorcerer?
I want eternal youth, and Imperious Bloodline seems like a good way to get it.
I need to be Human, to qualify for Imperious Bloodline. Or maybe half-humans can take it? If that's the case, Half-Elf would be tempting for that one broken spell.
I see little reason not to take Razmiran Priest, even though I wouldn't stockpile that many scrolls.



On the feat front, there are a few things I'd like to fit in. Quicken Spell seems a must. But I'd also like to have the much less powerful Eschew Materials, Silent spell, and Still Spell. So I could still use magic even if I were, say, bound and gagged naked. Sorry for making you imagine that. Or you're welcome, as the case may be.

Looking at my Bloodline feats, the most tempting ones are, in order, Improved Initiative, Lingering Spell, and ... one of the skill ones? Man, that goes downhill pretty fast.

Item creation feats are a possibility. I looked through Pathfinder item creation feats. First, I ruled out all the weird ones I'd never heard of. Then I ruled out all the ones that don't let you ignore the spell prerequisits. That left me with Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Wonderous Item, and Forge Ring.

I assume constructs are just as overpriced in Pathfinder as they are in 3.5. I personally have no use for weapons and armor. Wonderous items are pretty useful. And I could craft myself a bunch of Metamagic Rods of metamagic feats I don't know. Forge Ring seems very limited.

I'm not sure if magic item creation is a route I want to go. If I imagine myself getting isekai-ed into a setting where it's easy to buy magic items, I don't really need them. But it would provide a plausible niche to inhabit in the world I find myself in. On the other hand, if I imagine myself getting isekai-ed into a setting where it's very difficult to find people willing to craft magic items for you, it would be very handy. Let's tentatively sy I'm thinking about Craft Rod, Craft Wonderous Item, and Forge Ring, to be self-sufficient with regard to my equipment. (Well, not self-sufficient with regard to the scrolls I buy for Razmiran Priest, but there was no way that was happening no matter what.)

I've also considered Expanded Arcana, maybe even multiple instances of it. If I don't have any other pressing things to spend feats on, two extra spells known seems better than a poke in the eye.

Would Cunning Caster or Conceal spell make any sense? If I've already decided that I want Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell for unlikely niche situations, doesn't that already cover me well enough for situations where I want to be subtle?

Some random other feats I've looked at are Defensive Combat Training, Dimensional Agility, Seeking Spell, Selective Spell, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, and Vast Spell.



I'm also a little torn on skills. I mean, I can just buy or craft any number of Scarlet and Blue Sphere Ioun Stones to have whatever skills I want. So I guess the question is, "What skills do I want to be sure to have even if I'm somehow deprived of items?"

So I guess that rules out Use Magic Device. If I've been deprived of my magic devices, there won't be anything to use the skill on. Still, UMD is kind of central to the Razmiran Priest archetype, so it kind of irks me to be reliant on an item for it. Then again, even if I have the skill, I'll still be reliant on magic items to use the class feature, in that I'll need to have scrolls or something to use it on.

It would seem to make Spellcraft and obvious choice. If I don't have magic items, I'll want to make some magic items. And that requires Spellcraft.

Diplomacy and Sense Motive are important skills for getting out of and avoiding bad situations. Bluff less so, or at least, that's my impression. Maybe Perception?



I really have no idea on spells known. I'm certain I'll take the extra spells known alternative favored class benefit at all but the first three levels though.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you'd rather be Int-based than Cha-based (which seems like a strict upgrade, to me), there's always the sage archetype (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/sage). More skill points is always good. Always.

[Jack_Simth]

There have been may isekai threads on this forum. In fact, we're pretty close to that 1-level-per-year one rearing its head again.

Anyway, the particular isekai that's been on my mind is a Pathfinder Sorcerer 20 with the Imperious bloodline in a generic D&D world. I think I might have submitted that to one of the threads. But I don't remember.

I'm really having trouble deciding on feats, spells known, and to a lesser extent skill points.



There are some things I'm pretty sure on.

Obviously, I want full casting. But I don't want to be dependent on some book or remaining in a deity's good graces. So I think that pretty much limits me to Sorcerer?
I want eternal youth, and Imperious Bloodline seems like a good way to get it.
I need to be Human, to qualify for Imperious Bloodline. Or maybe half-humans can take it? If that's the case, Half-Elf would be tempting for that one broken spell.
I see little reason not to take Razmiran Priest, even though I wouldn't stockpile that many scrolls.


The Oracle (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/) doesn't require a specific deity:
"Unlike a cleric, who draws her magic through devotion to a deity, oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals. Instead of worshiping a single source, oracles tend to venerate all of the gods that share their beliefs."
... and going Oracle means you can grab the Spirit Guide (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo-oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) archetype, giving you a set of spells you can swap out. Potentially including a variable set of Sor/Wiz spells, depending on DM ruling regarding the Lore spirit and the Arcane Enlightenment Hex.

Additionally of note, some of the Oracle mysteries come with various forms of immortality on their capstone:

The Occult capstone turns you into a ghost 2d4 days after death. For reference, a ghost has no alignment restrictions, and revives 2d4 days after re-death. Also makes you immune to negative levels (incuding permanent ones) and gives you a free 1/day use of Astral Projection. And while Pathfinder added a drawback to death during Astral Projection... oh, hey: You're immune to it. You'll want to prepare for being incorporeal... but Mount, Polymorph Any Object, and Malevolence combine well.
The Heavens mystery gives you a free Reincarnate on death, takes a grand total of 10 days. Reincarnate resets your age, and the spells to remove the death penalty are on the Cleric list.
The Solar Mystery capstone explicitly makes you immune to aging.

There's probably more. But they're not race-restricted, which means you can go Half-Elf for Paragon Surge.

Also of note: You can get Paragon Surge as a human! You want the Racial Heritage (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/racial-heritage/) feat to qualify as a half-elf.



On the feat front, there are a few things I'd like to fit in. Quicken Spell seems a must. But I'd also like to have the much less powerful Eschew Materials, Silent spell, and Still Spell. So I could still use magic even if I were, say, bound and gagged naked. Sorry for making you imagine that. Or you're welcome, as the case may be.
Quicken spell is unfortunately problematic for spontaneous casters


Looking at my Bloodline feats, the most tempting ones are, in order, Improved Initiative, Lingering Spell, and ... one of the skill ones? Man, that goes downhill pretty fast.

Item creation feats are a possibility. I looked through Pathfinder item creation feats. First, I ruled out all the weird ones I'd never heard of. Then I ruled out all the ones that don't let you ignore the spell prerequisits. That left me with Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Wonderous Item, and Forge Ring.

I assume constructs are just as overpriced in Pathfinder as they are in 3.5. I personally have no use for weapons and armor. Wonderous items are pretty useful. And I could craft myself a bunch of Metamagic Rods of metamagic feats I don't know. Forge Ring seems very limited.
That assumption is... mixed. Specific constructs are just as overpriced in Pathfinder as they are in 3.5. However, construct templates can be super cheap - and I don't mean templates that you apply to constructs, but templates that make generic creatures into constructs. The nice ones are Trompe L'Oeil (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/trompe-l-oeil-cr-1/) (1k market per hit die, plus a size-based painting - revives after destruction, so long as the painting is intact; keeps all prior abilities, uses Cha for HP and Fort saves - as an example, a Great Wyrm copper dragon markets at 33,000 gp, a Solar at 25,000 gp, and an Efreeti at 13,000 gp) and Waxwork Creature (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/sentient-waxwork-cr-0/) (1k market per hit die, has what amounts to regeneration/fire for constructs - loses most of the base critter's abilities, though). Either (or better, both) make for great Construct Armor (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs/#Construct_Armor) if you want to avoid injury - and construct armor ONLY works if you built the construct yourself.


I'm not sure if magic item creation is a route I want to go. If I imagine myself getting isekai-ed into a setting where it's easy to buy magic items, I don't really need them. But it would provide a plausible niche to inhabit in the world I find myself in. On the other hand, if I imagine myself getting isekai-ed into a setting where it's very difficult to find people willing to craft magic items for you, it would be very handy. Let's tentatively sy I'm thinking about Craft Rod, Craft Wonderous Item, and Forge Ring, to be self-sufficient with regard to my equipment. (Well, not self-sufficient with regard to the scrolls I buy for Razmiran Priest, but there was no way that was happening no matter what.)
For self-sufficient spellcasting for a spontaneous caster, you want to make Pages of Spell Knowledge (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/m-p/page-of-spell-knowledge/). And ranks in UMD, to go cross-list. DC 20 for the portion you need, so non-issue. Market price is spell level squared - but they add things to your spell list, so it's your DC, caster level, and so on (spell slots too, but for a spontaneous caster, that's a lot less of an .


I've also considered Expanded Arcana, maybe even multiple instances of it. If I don't have any other pressing things to spend feats on, two extra spells known seems better than a poke in the eye.

Would Cunning Caster or Conceal spell make any sense? If I've already decided that I want Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell for unlikely niche situations, doesn't that already cover me well enough for situations where I want to be subtle?
Not in Pathfinder, no. They removed the clause from Spellcraft that requires folks to see the components.

Some random other feats I've looked at are Defensive Combat Training, Dimensional Agility, Seeking Spell, Selective Spell, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, and Vast Spell.



I'm also a little torn on skills. I mean, I can just buy or craft any number of Scarlet and Blue Sphere Ioun Stones to have whatever skills I want. So I guess the question is, "What skills do I want to be sure to have even if I'm somehow deprived of items?"

So I guess that rules out Use Magic Device. If I've been deprived of my magic devices, there won't be anything to use the skill on. Still, UMD is kind of central to the Razmiran Priest archetype, so it kind of irks me to be reliant on an item for it. Then again, even if I have the skill, I'll still be reliant on magic items to use the class feature, in that I'll need to have scrolls or something to use it on.

It would seem to make Spellcraft and obvious choice. If I don't have magic items, I'll want to make some magic items. And that requires Spellcraft.

Diplomacy and Sense Motive are important skills for getting out of and avoiding bad situations. Bluff less so, or at least, that's my impression. Maybe Perception?
Spellcraft is a must. Perception is a defensive skill, as is Sense Motive. Bluff and Diplomacy are both useful whenever you're dealing with folks who can understand you. Acrobatics is also a defensive skill (avoid AoOs - as a 20th level caster, you'll have means to fly and swim already).



I really have no idea on spells known. I'm certain I'll take the extra spells known alternative favored class benefit at all but the first three levels though.
I'm fond of the Shadow line for flexibility.

[Maat Mons]

Thanks for the replies!



I do agree that Intelligence is overall a more useful stat than Charisma. In fact, I spent a fair bit of time pondering Arcanist with the Collegiate Initiate archetype, which allows Arcanists to take the Spell Mastery feat. I was seriously considering blowing a whole bunch of feats to fulfil my "don't need a book" requirement, until I realized Collegiate Initiate was incompatible with Blooded Arcanist, which was the only way I could figure out how to get eternal youth on that class.

Anyway, back on Sorcerer, if I'm going to keep the Imperious bloodline for eternal youth, then I'd need Crossblooded to be able to take Sage too. That costs a spell known of each level. And I'm not sure that Sage is technically compatible with Crossblooded.

To a certain extent, I can compensate for the lack of skill points by buying a bunch of Scarlet and Blue Sphere Ioun Stones, so it's not a dealbreaker to be tied to Charisma. On the other hand, to a certain extent, I could compensate for the lost spells known from Crossblooded by buying Pages of Spell Knowledge. So maybe fewer spells known shouldn't be a dealbreaker either? Though Pages of Spell Knowledge cost a lot more than Scarlet and Blue Sphere Ioun Stones, at least for high-level spells.



Huh, for some reason, I thought each Oracle was chosen by a single deity, and their cursed/blessed status could be revoked for bad behavior. I was aware of several Mysteries that gave auto-Reincarnate or similar, but I didn't consider them viable options because I wanted to spend eternity in my own body. And not, for example, spend a half-century as a female gnome, or something. I hadn't seen the Solar Mystery. That could work. Though I prefer the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, so I'll probably still go Sorcerer.

Why is Quicken Spell problematic for spontaneous casters in Pathfinder? The only reason I know of that it was problematic in 3.5 is the whole increased casting time for metamagic thing. But Pathfinder gives Quicken spell a specific exemption from that, so I though it was all good.

Racial Heritage is Interesting. I'll add it to the list of things I'm considering. Though maybe I don't need it for versatility, if can get enough scrolls of divine spells and Pages of Spell Knowledge.

Can you make Pages of Spell Knowledge for spells you don't know? I mean, it's a wonderous item, so you can ignore spell prerequisites. But Page of Spell Knowledge doesn't list the spell in the prerequisite area. It puts it off in it's own "Special" are. So I thought it might not technically be a prerequisite, and so may not technically be bypassable by things that ignore prerequisites.

Well, even in the worst case, I can still craft Pages of Spell Knowledge for spells of 6th level or lower by using Limited Wish to supply the spell, and Blood Money to pay for the Limited Wish. Actually, can I do that for scrolls, wands, and staves too? Am I just being way too liberal with my interpretation here?

Maybe I can just bribe other spellcasters into helping me craft them.

Looks like I'll have to investigate constructs further. Though I've never managed to decide how I feel about the morality of minions.

So, if I did decide to take a feat to allow me to obfuscate my occultism, which is the better feat, Cunning Caster or Conceal Spell?

[unseenmage]

...

Looks like I'll have to investigate constructs further. Though I've never managed to decide how I feel about the morality of minions.

...

I'll add that the Building and Modifying Constructs section of the PRD has guidelines for pricing Constructs by CR, which I highly recommend.

CR*CR*500 for their market price. Half that to Craft them. And market price *0.01 for the price of their body. Everything else is just like making a magic item.

At our IRL game this let's us sell defeated Construct bodies as scrap. Apply the broken condition and item price modifier to the now inanimate body price and viola.

Trompe L'oeil and Alter Ego are both very strong for their price, I recommend avoiding them unless you like cheese.

Sentient Waxworks are a decent stand in.

[Jack_Simth]

So, if I did decide to take a feat to allow me to obfuscate my occultism, which is the better feat, Cunning Caster or Conceal Spell?"It depends".

Short answer:
Conceal Spell has a better "baseline," but Cunning Caster has more "add ons" available to make it stronger than the other if you're willing to spend the resources on it.


Long Answer:
Conceal Spell produces a flat DC skill check for the observer, and uses the highest of three skills (with an additional roll of the higher of two skills under certain - common - circumstances). The DC is a fixed 15 + Ranks + Charisma mod, and the only penalty to the DC is the spell's level. Something like, say, Greater Heroism's skill boost doesn't help you, nor do things like Skill Focus or Deceitful's boost. If you don't want to spend more than the minimum resources to get the effect, this is the way to go.

Cunning Caster is an opposed skill check. It's got five different potential -4 sources to your check (material, somatic, verbal, focus, and obvious effect), but it's a full skill check on your part. Additionally, it's one check from each of you under all circumstances (no double jeopardy), and the spell level doesn't matter. But it's a skill check. Greater Heroism, Deceitful, Skill Focus, or any other bonus you scrape up will apply just fine. If you're willing to spend the extra feats & spell slots, this one has a higher optimization ceiling.

[Quertus]

If you're immortal… and can craft items… given Time, you are functionally infinitely wealthy.

So, take Teleport Through Time. When you first get isekai'd, Teleport back a few million years (or whatever) to get yourself set up.

Having sentient Golems to talk to might make the wait more bearable. I do *not* recommend a Trompe L'oeil of Quertus, my signature academia mage for whom this account is named, for your companion, however - he's something of a stiff. :smalltongue: And certainly wouldn't appreciate helping you test your bound and gagged naked casting. I recommend a Trompe L'oeil of someone who *would* appreciate it. :smallwink:

Also, UMD is great for "no, really, I *am* the jailer" level of convincing magical traps to release your bound naked itemless self from magical prison - don't rule it out as useless in such scenarios.

[Maat Mons]

Oh no! We're mere hours away from the new-years isekai thread being posted! Then everyone will be to busy with their own ones to help me with mine!

Well, I've done some thinking on spells known and magic items. What I have is a huge mess, but I'll post it now anyway.





Level
Known
Possibilities
Automatic
Divine Scroll


0
9
Detect Magic
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Open/Close
Prestidigitation




1
7
Mount
Protection from Evil

Protection from Evil
Resist Energy


2
7
Knock
Resist Energy
Web
Aid
Knock


3
6
Haste
Phantom Steed
Shrink Item
Slow
Stinking Cloud
Tongues
Heroism
Remove Disease
Stone Shape


4
6
Black Tentacles
Dimension Door
Shadow Conjuration
Stone Shape
Threefold Aspect
Tongues


5
6
Dominate Person
Hold Monster
Overland Flight
Telekinesis
Wall of Stone
Greater Command
Overland Flight
Plane Shift
True Seeing
Wall of Stone


6
5
Contingency
Flesh to Stone
True Seeing
Repulsion



7
5
Greater Arcane Sight
Greater Scrying
Greater Shadow Conjuration
Plane Shift
Greater Teleport
Walk Through Space
Greater Age Resistance



8
7
Moment of Prescience
Greater Planar Binding
Polymorph Any Object
Prediction of Failure
Polymorph Any Object


9
3
Dominate Monster
Gate
Mage’s Disjunction
Shapechange
Time Stop
Wish
Overwhelming Presence






Armor

Haramaki (+1 AC, 0% ASF, no max Dex, 1 pound) 3 gp
Glamered (can look like normal clothing) 2,700 gp
Fortification (25% / 50% / 75% chance to negate crit) +1 / +3 / +5 enhancement bonus
Energy Resistance (reduce Acid / Cold / Electricity / Fire / Sonic damage by 10 / 20 / 30) 18,000 gp / 42,000 gp / 66,000 gp
Mind Buttressing (immune to possession and mental control) +2 enhancement bonus

Belt

Belt of Physical Might (+2 / +4 / +6 to 2 physical ability scores) 5,000 gp / 20,000 gp / 45,000 gp
Belt of Physical Perfection (+2 / +4 / +6 to all physical ability scores) 8,000 gp / 32,000 gp / 77,000 gp

Body

Robe of Arcane Heritage (+4 effective Sorcerer level for Bloodline) 16,000 gp
Starfaring Robes (combines Necklace of Adaptation and Wings of Flying) 82,000 gp
Mnemonic Vestment (1/day use scroll as Page of Spell Knowledge) 5,000 gp
Robe of Eyes

Chest

Tunic of Careful Casting

Eyes

Goggles of Night (Darkvision 60 feet) 12,000 gp
Truesight Goggles (continuous True Seeing) 184,800 gp

Feet

Boots of Striding and Springing (+10 feet land speed, +5 Acrobatics) 5,500 gp
Boots of Speed

Hands

Glove of Storing (store things in the glove) 10,000 gp

Head

Circlet of Persuasion

Headband

+6 Cha and maybe others

Neck

Necklace of Adaptation
Natural Armor
Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location

Ring

Ring of Freedom of Movement

Shoulders

Minor Cloak of Displacement (20% miss chance) 24,000 gp
Cloak of Resistance (+1 to +5 bonus to saves) 1,000 gp to 25,000 gp
Cloak of the Diplomat
Wings of Flying

Wrist

Bracers of Armor
Fortification (25% / 50% / 75% chance to negate crit) +1 / +3 / +5 enhancement bonus
Mind Buttressing (immune to possession and mental control) +2 enhancement bonus
Bracelet of Bargaining (+5 Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive) 14,500 gp
Sleeves of Many Garments 200 gp


Ioun Stones

Amber Spindle (+1 to +5 bonus to saves) 10,000 gp to 50,000 gp


Other

Runestones of Power
Metamagic Rods
Inherent bonuses to ability scores
Scrolls, wands, and staves
Extradimensional storage
Permanency on various spells