Strong Hold Builder's Guide Questions

[Yogibear41]

Hello all. I plan to take the Landlord feat as my next feat after leveling up in the near future of our DND game. As such I have begun attempting to plan out my stronghold.

However reading through the Stronghold builder's guide I have come across some contradictory rules (Imagine that huh? :smallsmile:)

The main thing I am stuck on at the moment if the price for stone free standing walls. On page 10 in the description for Brightstone keep, it lists the wall price at 100g for each 10ft long section, on page 37 it lists the price as 600g for each section in the chart, but then in the text it says that you can increase or decrease the thickness of the wall by multiplying and gives examples of a 3 foot thick wall costing 40g per section, and a 12ft thick wall costing 160g per section. (the base thickness is 6th) which using math would mean the base price should be 80g per section. So basically I have 3 locations giving me three different prices in the same book. :smallconfused:

Someone please tell me if I am just terribly confused.

Also Happy Holidays everyone.

[Another Handle]

Yeah, SBG is a mess. I've tried multiple times over the years to write a handbook for it, but yeeesh. They didn't even bother to make skills useful in the building process. Nor future proof a single aspect. The most shocking thing is they actually got the math right on how many castings of 20th cl wall of stone it would take to make one stronghold space.

Ignore the Brightsone Keep examples, that was probably written separately from the rest of the book. While traditionally, text trumps table, most materials are only available on that table, so go with 600gp. Hewn Stone has the most options for price reduction anyway, including Freefiddy for high level wall of stone spells.

[sreservoir]

While traditionally, text trumps table, most materials are only available on that table, so go with 600gp.

"Text trumps table" is a misconception. The one, single errata rule is that a primary source takes precedence over secondary sources. An example of that "text" typically take precedence over "a table entry". This shouldn't be treated as an inherent property of text and table entries in the rules; it's because typically the text purports to be the primary description of how features work, while tables entries are supposed to be a summary of the text. But if text A refers to table B, then clearly B has higher precedence than A!

So the Brightstone Keep example is not a primary source. The primary source for wall costs is the wall materials table in the walls section of Chapter 2: Stronghold Components, which the Brightstone Keep example refers to—the example just happens to be wrong. (If the Material Descriptions had included costs, it would canonically take precedence over the table, but they don't. They do specify HP and break DC by thickness, so those do, in fact, vary and are not fixed at the numbers given by the table.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Stone walls are free if you're a spellcaster (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfStone.htm) or nearly free if can hire one (which is quite cheap at, I believe, 3sp per day).

Ignore the stupidity of the prices in the SBG.

[Yogibear41]

My current plan involves using planar ally and/or binding to summon up a Dao for infinite CL 19 Wall of stones per day to take care of those pesky costs.

[Yak folklore]

Stone walls are free if you're a spellcaster (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfStone.htm) or nearly free if can hire one (which is quite cheap at, I believe, 3sp per day).

Ignore the stupidity of the prices in the SBG.

For a fifth level spell? No way, but still cheap, I would look for an allegory in a casting price for a fifth level spell, best place to look is SBG, and pay on a per casting basis. Also, just listen to the rules for freestanding walls, don't worry about whatever Brightstone Keep is doing, maybe a really nasty penalty for location?

[Silent Alarm]

Ignore the stupidity of the prices in the SBG.

This basically. Stronghold Spaces are stupid (30ft? 5ft? 100ft? 20 by 20 by 10 room?), Wondrous Architecture is stupid (no XP cost? Sure! Only covers a single stronghold space? What!?) Staff is stupid (I have to pay them monthly out of pocket? Can't they just make profession checks?) Walls are stupid (how do I calculate fractional wall structures if one of the walls is 0?). The entire pricing, set up, and booking is just out the box stupid. If you really want to just make a castle, or a dungeon, or a hideout or headquarters? Talk with your GM and set it up together. The hireling and purchasing spellcasting rules work fine for determining magically constructed walls, otherwise you can make it a craft (stonemasonry) check (DC 20 + hardness for a wall?). That book is nothing but trouble. :smallsigh: