Gishes

[adb82]

Hi everyone,
Can you tell me your best effective and your most fun gish malee build that don't involve paladin multiclassing with any cha based caster?
I actually played a warlock pact of blade LV 11/barbarian 3 bear totem (the campaign is still playing but I'll go for warlock till the end now) that it's really fun (I started the build with 1 LV of barbarian), allowing a great use of armor of agathys and fire shield as he is resistent to almost everything, plus being able to deal great amount of damage adding 2 attacks with a great sword or great axe with GWM everytime he get advantage, choosing to have an AC not higher than 17 for be hitted kinda often. I made it a drow but there are better options, I just used it for a thematic sadistic character willing to get wounded. It's a bit MAD as you need STR, some DEX for medium armor, COS and possibly good CHA even you can dump CHA to the required for multiclassing bcs you not gonna use that much spells that involve a saving throw. I was lucky with the dice anyway 😅 and still more lucky to find a giant belt putting my STR to 22. Any idea to make this build more competitive?
I'm also playing a Horizon Walker 11/rogue (assassin) x that give lots of fun, especially against hordes or many enemies, using sharpshooter, crossbow expert and an heavy crossbow with haste (nice also with haste, mobile and possibly GWM or alert), combined with the teleport ability of HW it's really fun. Probably also this not strong as a sorcadin but for me more fun.

What's your favourite gishes than?

[heavyfuel]

Pre-tasha Bladesingers make good gishes. Post-tasha, they mostly play like a regular Wizard who can occasionally get into melee.

I heard Artificers can make good gishes as well, but I'm yet to find a DM that lets me play one :smallfrown:

[Eldariel]

Well, the straight Abjurer (with racial proficiencies) or Bladesinger works great. Obviously, they'll both run low on melee damage as you begin to have better things to use your action on than hitting people with a cantrip. Bladesinger obviously gets more value out of this since they can hit in melee with a cantrip while also attacking. And they can add Int to damage to boot eventually giving them a reasonable attack action especially if they put a spell into it.

Swords Bard too; it's probably my favourite. Swords Bard with CBE and SS is a superb archer and then uses Magical Secrets to pilfer the few buffs they want going to town. The 3 "maneuvers" you get at short rest recovery are all pretty good and while you miss out on the hard CC and the accuracy one compared to battlemaster, getting the AC boost and the knockback on a ranged chassis is just great.


Otherwise, Fighter 1/Anything works pretty well; you get Fighting Style (Archery, Defense or Dueling depending on where you put your focus) and then your casting class does the rest.

[Mr Adventurer]

Pre-tasha Bladesingers make good gishes. Post-tasha, they mostly play like a regular Wizard who can occasionally get into melee.

Strange assertion, since their blade dance didn't change. The number of times per day they can use it has varied, that's all.

Plus let's be honest - even if Blade Dance was active 100% of the time, as a 9th-level-spell-casting Wizard, odds are you'd STILL want to play like a Wizard who occasionally melees, anyway.

Edit:

OP:

I've actually had good fun in Tier 2 with a straight Githyanki War Mage wizard. Heavy Armour Proficiency and Tough feat.

[JackPhoenix]

Pre-tasha Bladesingers make good gishes. Post-tasha, they mostly play like a regular Wizard who can occasionally get into melee.


It's the opposite way, with how Tasha changed their Extra Attack, they now actually have a reason to go in melee range instead of just casting spells from a distance while enjoying defensive benefits.

[Gignere]

I am currently playing an AT and planning to multi into BS should be a fairly effective striker gish. Eventually going to be 9/6 AT/BS. At will damage should be better than the sorcadin, at will nova will be poorer, but crits should be just as hard, defenses will probably be comparable other than saves but luckily I have a Paladin in the group so I could lean on his aura for saves.

Going to be using Shadowblade, and the level 6 BS cantrip + extra attack, will use sentinel for off turn sneaks, for defense can stack uncanny dodge with blade ward for 1/4 damage should come really handy on crits.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Arcane Trickster X / War Wizard 2.

Any race is fine, but trying to go different, I suggest Wood Elf for the extra mobility and occasional hiding benefits. I’m a big fan of the Wood Elf Magic feat as well, which improves a lot your already impressive mobility and hiding capabilities through Guidance, Longstrider and Pass Without Trace.

DEX > CON > INT. Max DEX, Wood Elf Magic, Lucky, etc.

It’s the basic routine of every AT: Advantage through your Familiar help and Booming Blade + Disengage if melee OR Longbow + Hide if ranged.

I would go AT 5, then War Wizard 2 and finish AT all the rest. This would push major staples like Mirror Image, Shadow Blade and Magical Ambush up to 2 levels, but damage output is pretty reliable through BB + SA, and the Wizard defensive package (Absorb Elements, Shield, Mage Armor and maybe PFE&G) increases durability a lot. Plus you’ll be able to cast Find Familiar as a ritual, saving a precious slot and a spell choice.

I rather get War Wizard instead of Bladesinger because the major weakness of Rogues is their really poor saving throws. You have consistent ways to prevent damage and boost AC through Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, Shield and Mage Armor. Since you’ll be mainly using Booming Blade, there’s no anti-synergy whenever you use Arcane Deflection to boost your saves.

Very versatile, well-rounded and durable Rogue.

[Gignere]

Arcane Trickster X / War Wizard 2.

Any race is fine, but trying to go different, I suggest Wood Elf for the extra mobility and occasional hiding benefits. I’m a big fan of the Wood Elf Magic feat as well, which improves a lot your already impressive mobility and hiding capabilities as well through Guidance, Longstrider and Pass Without Trace.

DEX > CON > INT. Max DEX, Wood Elf Magic, Lucky, etc.

It’s the basic routine of every AT: Advantage through your Familiar help and Booming Blade + Disengage if melee OR Longbow + Hide if ranged.

I would go AT 5, than War Wizard 2 and finish AT all the rest. This would push major staples like Mirror Image, Shadow Blade and Magical Ambush up to 2 levels, but damage output is pretty reliable through BB + SA, and the Wizard defensive package (Absorb Elements, Shield, Mage Armor and maybe PFE&G) increases durability a lot. Plus you’ll be able to cast Find Familiar as ritual, saving a precious slot and a spell choice.

I rather get War Wizard instead of Bladesinger because the major weakness of Rogues is their really poor saving throws. You have consistent ways to prevent damage and boost AC through Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, Shield and Mage Armor.

Very versatile, well-rounded and durable Rogue.

You can push WW to 4 so you don’t delay Shadowblade at all, like maybe AT 4 WW 4 and back to AT. Shadowblade is so crucial to the build and having free access to all second level wizard spells isn’t bad at all. Yeah I would have given war wizard a harder look in my AT multiclass if I didn’t have a Paladin in the party.

With the Paladin I felt BS is the stronger multi.

[adb82]

I am currently playing an AT and planning to multi into BS should be a fairly effective striker gish. Eventually going to be 9/6 AT/BS. At will damage should be better than the sorcadin, at will nova will be poorer, but crits should be just as hard, defenses will probably be comparable other than saves but luckily I have a Paladin in the group so I could lean on his aura for saves.

Going to be using Shadowblade, and the level 6 BS cantrip + extra attack, will use sentinel for off turn sneaks, for defense can stack uncanny dodge with blade ward for 1/4 damage should come really handy on crits.


Arcane Trickster X / War Wizard 2.

Any race is fine, but trying to go different, I suggest Wood Elf for the extra mobility and occasional hiding benefits. I’m a big fan of the Wood Elf Magic feat as well, which improves a lot your already impressive mobility and hiding capabilities through Guidance, Longstrider and Pass Without Trace.

DEX > CON > INT. Max DEX, Wood Elf Magic, Lucky, etc.

It’s the basic routine of every AT: Advantage through your Familiar help and Booming Blade + Disengage if melee OR Longbow + Hide if ranged.

I would go AT 5, then War Wizard 2 and finish AT all the rest. This would push major staples like Mirror Image, Shadow Blade and Magical Ambush up to 2 levels, but damage output is pretty reliable through BB + SA, and the Wizard defensive package (Absorb Elements, Shield, Mage Armor and maybe PFE&G) increases durability a lot. Plus you’ll be able to cast Find Familiar as a ritual, saving a precious slot and a spell choice.

I rather get War Wizard instead of Bladesinger because the major weakness of Rogues is their really poor saving throws. You have consistent ways to prevent damage and boost AC through Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, Shield and Mage Armor. Since you’ll be mainly using Booming Blade, there’s no anti-synergy whenever you use Arcane Deflection to boost your saves.

Very versatile, well-rounded and durable Rogue.

This is both very interesting,
Maybe for the AT/BS I would get mobile more than sentinel...sentinel is a great feat for off turn sneak attacks, but in my experience many DM don't make you get OA so often, so i think the opportunity to enter and go out from malee without conseguences it can be better, but it's also true that with shield spell and maxed dex it's not so easy to hit you, so sentinel can really be a better choice. I suppose this build is for a TWF and use booming blade only on OA.

The AT/WW use BB much more often as it have only one attack for turn, get solid defence from WW and start adding damage with SA. But yea, I probably would get WW 4 for shadow blade.

I definitely want to play something like this, both have its own good reasons. 😅

[Gignere]

This is both very interesting,
Maybe for the AT/BS I would get mobile more than sentinel...sentinel is a great feat for off turn sneak attacks, but in my experience many DM don't make you get OA so often, so i think the opportunity to enter and go out from malee without conseguences it can be better, but it's also true that with shield spell and maxed dex it's not so easy to hit you, so sentinel can really be a better choice. I suppose this build is for a TWF and use booming blade only on OA.

The AT/WW use BB much more often as it have only one attack for turn, get solid defence from WW and start adding damage with SA. But yea, I probably would get WW 4 for shadow blade.

I definitely want to play something like this, both have its own good reasons. 😅

Nah the BS 6 allows you to use BB/GFB as part of extra attack, I plan to cast false life and ask the Paladin for aid so I can stand in melee and like you said with BS, nice dex and shield should be decent just standing in melee.

[adb82]

Nah the BS 6 allows you to use BB/GFB as part of extra attack, I plan to cast false life and ask the Paladin for aid so I can stand in melee and like you said with BS, nice dex and shield should be decent just standing in melee.

"Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks." Yep i missed this. 😅 In this way is still more interesting...adding elven accuracy can be a great boost too, assuming you'll often have advantage (always In dungeons lol) you ll often hit both, whenever you crit, with first or extra attack, it's a good number of dice to double as you ll mostly have or the sneak attack or the BB/GFB bonus dices both with shadow blade...or even SA and BB/GFB both if you are lucky lol...

[RogueJK]

Here's a very solid DEX-based Eldritch Knight/War Wizard combo: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24681222&postcount=523

Makes for an effective Gish, although it lands more on the melee side of things than the spellcasting side. A Bladesinger would be the counterpoint, falling more on the spellcasting side than the melee side.

This EK/WW build involves staying an Eldritch Knight through at least Level 8 (and potentially Level 11), before dipping into War Wizard for a couple levels to increase defense and upcast Shadow Blade, and then back to EK until EK 12, before finishing off with War Wizard for 3rd/4th level spells and even higher level slots for upcasting. You give up the Fighter's high level 4th attack and extra Action Surges/Indomitables, and the EK's high level teleport, in exchange for noticeably better melee damage output, defense, saves, and spellcasting options in Tiers 3 and 4. A very nice trade-off indeed.

You could try to take the 2 initial levels of War Wizard even earlier to increase your defense/saves earlier on, but this then would run into your concern about delaying your offensive capabilities pretty significantly for 2 levels. You really want to reach EK 8 ASAP for the "Booming Shadow Blade+BA Shadow Blade" attack routine before you consider taking your initial War Wizard levels, and the creator recommends waiting until after your 3rd attack comes online at EK 11.

Personally, 3 Shadow Blade attacks undoubtedly is nice, especially when combined with frequent Triple Advantage, but the two attacks from Booming Upcast Shadow Blade + Bonus Action Upcast Shadow Blade routine will easily carry you through the delay of your 3rd attack to Character Level 13 with only a negligible loss of non-crit damage output (~0.5 damage per round), so I'm inclined towards taking the initial WW dip after EK 8. It basically comes down to whether you want Arcane Deflection at Level 10 and 3rd level upcast Shadow Blade at level 11 but have to wait until Level 13 for your 3rd attack, or get 3 attacks first at Level 11 and wait until Level 13 for Arcane Deflection and 3rd level upcast Shadow Blade. The latter does negligibly higher damage and gets an additional attack roll for potential crits from Levels 11-13, but has noticeably poorer saves and defense for these two levels until getting Arcane Ward. I'd prioritize the big defense/save boost over the small damage boost, and there's other nice abilities from the slightly earlier WW levels, like Ritual casting and Arcane Recovery coming online a bit sooner.

[arnin77]

I am currently playing an AT and planning to multi into BS should be a fairly effective striker gish. Eventually going to be 9/6 AT/BS. At will damage should be better than the sorcadin, at will nova will be poorer, but crits should be just as hard, defenses will probably be comparable other than saves but luckily I have a Paladin in the group so I could lean on his aura for saves.

Going to be using Shadowblade, and the level 6 BS cantrip + extra attack, will use sentinel for off turn sneaks, for defense can stack uncanny dodge with blade ward for 1/4 damage should come really handy on crits.

I’ll second Arcane Trickster. Mine is level 10 now: our last session was a heist and I took out an archangel guarding a diamond with Tashas Hideous Laughter by forcing disadvantage on the save while being hidden from it, then using minor illusions to distract its search.

Booming blade and shadow blade help with melee, find familiar helps with melee and ranged bow attacks, misty step is nice too.

[Lord Ruby34]

Not the most optimized character, or necessarily a traditional gish, but I enjoy some amount of War Cleric mixed in with a Battlemaster fighter, even if it's just one level. Mostly, you're worse than a pure paladin until very high levels, but you get a slightly different flavor and some excellent bonus action usage for a non-polarm master fighter.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Not the most optimized character, or necessarily a traditional gish, but I enjoy some amount of War Cleric mixed in with a Battlemaster fighter, even if it's just one level. Mostly, you're worse than a pure paladin until very high levels, but you get a slightly different flavor and some excellent bonus action usage for a non-polarm master fighter.

I dare to say that it’s a really good build for a SS Archer who doesn’t want to invest in Crossbow Expert. Bless, Precision Strike, War Priest are kind of nice.

[RogueJK]

I dare to say that it’s a really good build for a SS Archer who doesn’t want to invest in Crossbow Expert. Bless, Precision Strike, War Priest are kind of nice.

Kind of nice as a 1-2 level dip on something like a Fighter or Ranger Archer, yes. (Or perhaps something to switch to after 5-8ish level of the pre-Tasha's Ranger, which didn't really provide any incentive to stick with it, and you were usually better off swapping to Fighter/Rogue/Cleric after the initial Ranger levels.)

But kind of awful on a single-classed War Cleric. On a single-classed Cleric, War Priest is a terrible ability due to it only being usable WISMOD times per day. So for 3-5 times per day, a War Cleric can swing their weapon a second time in a round, at the cost of their Bonus Action. Boo. Balanced to keep them from dominating Tier 1, but then horribly underpowered.

I think that starting at 5th Level, War Priest should be usable unlimited times per day. Basically like Extra Attack, except it costs your Bonus Action too. Lets the more weapon-focused Cleric stay relevant with their weapon attacks (at least into Tier 3), while still making them a little worse at it than the true Martial classes by eating up your Bonus Action at the same time.

(But then they'd probably also need to make it so it doesn't stack with Extra Attack, to keep people from cheesing stuff like War Cleric 5/Fighter 5+.)

Or hey, just give them Extra Attack at 5th/6th level. I mean, we've got full caster Wizards with Extra Attack and scaling extra damage from SCAG cantrip attack substitution now, so... I think it's time to throw the War Clerics a bone. As it stands, they're one of the weaker options for Cleric subclass, barring a few specific circumstances like being in a strictly Tier 1 campaign, or as a 1-2 level dip on a full Martial chassis.

[Eldariel]

Kind of nice as a 1-2 level dip on something like a Fighter or Ranger Archer, yes. (Or perhaps something to switch to after 5-8ish level of the pre-Tasha's Ranger, which didn't really provide any incentive to stick with it, and you were usually better off swapping to Fighter/Rogue/Cleric after the initial Ranger levels.)

But kind of awful on a single-classed War Cleric. On a single-classed Cleric, War Priest is a terrible ability due to it only being usable WISMOD times per day. So for 3-5 times per day, a War Cleric can swing their weapon a second time in a round, at the cost of their Bonus Action. Boo. Balanced to keep them from dominating Tier 1, but then horribly underpowered.

I think that starting at 5th Level, War Priest should be usable unlimited times per day. Basically like Extra Attack, except it costs your Bonus Action too. Lets the more weapon-focused Cleric stay relevant with their weapon attacks (at least into Tier 3), while still making them a little worse at it than the true Martial classes by eating up your Bonus Action at the same time.

(But then they'd probably also need to make it so it doesn't stack with Extra Attack, to keep people from cheesing stuff like War Cleric 5/Fighter 5+.)

Or hey, just give them Extra Attack at 5th/6th level. I mean, we've got full caster Wizards with Extra Attack and scaling extra damage from SCAG cantrip attack substitution now, so... I think it's time to throw the War Clerics a bone. As it stands, they're one of the weaker options for Cleric subclass, barring a few specific circumstances like being in a strictly Tier 1 campaign, or as a 1-2 level dip on a full Martial chassis.

The game already has PAM and CBE and TWF among other things (and GWM comes with a conditional bonus action attack too), and Cleric has some of the busiest bonus action economy with Spiritual Weapon, Sanctuary, Healing Word, Shield of Faith, etc.; them stacking wouldn't be a problem or even especially good. Fighter 11 already gets a 3rd attack without wasting additional actions, while Cleric 10 is upcasting Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon. Cleric 5/Fighter 5 would still be about as good as presently. I give War Clerics straight-up Extra Attack and they STILL rarely use attack action around level 9.

[TyGuy]

I'm a sucker for gishes. Everything I've tried has been fun. The most OP thing I've played was a straight paladin to 9. It's such a strong class. But I like the ranger, been itching to try it again since the new options. AT is super fun, only played in low levels though. Also did a one-shot with a 20 EK, so many attacks.
Can't speak from experience, but I feel like 1/3 casters and multi classes really struggle in the mid game. Even the 1/2 casters I've played have a little bit of a feeling of missing out sometimes with the magic in tier 2.

[MrStabby]

I am a big fan of the cleric if the content from Tasha's is on the table.

Pick up a domain that gives heavy armour, get booming blade from your race, wade in with spirit guardians or wrathful smite. Pick up warcaster and use it with command. Spiritual weapon for backup. Level 8 can now boost cantrip damage or weapon damage, which is nice.

Good domain options are Nature (both thorn whip and Shillelagh have good use here), Twighlight (no particular synergy but good raw power), Forge (oh so hard to shift), order (good power generally and bonus action enchantment can be particularly good when your attack/cantrip is more powerful).

At higher levels I am a fan of a rogue dip and shield master feat - this helps preserve your melee presence, even at higher levels through a small boost to damage and a nice control effect.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Draconic Sorc with 1-3 levels of fighter. Quicken means you can Cast a spell and attack (GFB cantrip) in the same round. You get bonus damage on GFB and any fire spells you cast. AC is really good with Defensive Fighting Style and Heavy Armor and Shield Spell, so you can front line (No point in taking an attacking fighting style since you aren't going to multi attack).

[Zaltman]

Fighter 1/arcana cleric x. Con saves, blade cantrips with wiz damage bonus spiritual weapon and guardians.

[RogueJK]

Fighter 1/arcana cleric x. Con saves, blade cantrips with wiz damage bonus spiritual weapon and guardians.
If CON saves are what you're after with the Fighter dip, Sorcerer 1/Arcana Cleric X gets CON saves too, without delaying your spell slots. And you get Sorcerer subclass benefits too.

[Mr Adventurer]

Draconic Sorc with 1-3 levels of fighter. Quicken means you can Cast a spell and attack (GFB cantrip) in the same round. You get bonus damage on GFB and any fire spells you cast. AC is really good with Defensive Fighting Style and Heavy Armor and Shield Spell, so you can front line (No point in taking an attacking fighting style since you aren't going to multi attack).

Interesting! What Fighter subclass?

[Mercurias]

Hi everyone,
Can you tell me your best effective and your most fun gish malee build that don't involve paladin multiclassing with any cha based caster?

What's your favourite gishes than?

I had a buddy who played a Battlesmith Artificer who seemed like a lot of fun.

Personally, I really enjoyed my High Elf Arcane Trickster. He had stealth, useful utility magic, basically at-will advantage, and just enough magical oomp from Booming Blade to make him wicked-dangerous in melee. If I'd gotten to play him longer then I'd probably have nabbed a couple levels of Wizard in order to add some Bladesinger chops to my melee effectiveness while also bumping up my casting ability with ritual spells.

Probably my favorite was the Frontliner Arcana Cleric I saw in LudicSavant's epic eclectic build thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds). That was a seriously fun character to play. His shillelagh-and-booming-blade-enhanced quarterstaff hit like a cannon, and he was a great Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon bot. I could ride those two spells while using my main action to either dodge or heal, then use Booming Blade on anything dumb enough to try and leave melee range.

[Zaltman]

If CON saves are what you're after with the Fighter dip, Sorcerer 1/Arcana Cleric X gets CON saves too, without delaying your spell slots. And you get Sorcerer subclass benefits too.

I was after the armor and weapons too. Good trade for one lvl IMO.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Interesting! What Fighter subclass?

I didn't play mine past level 9 (Sorc 7 Fighter 2) as we played Curse of Strahd. I was considering battlemaster, but with some of the new books there are definitely options. I felt like Fighter 2 was pretty optimal though; It gave all the benefits I really needed, and every Sorc level is precious since it provides more Sorc points which = more Quicken, which was the key mechanic to the flavor I was going for.

[Mr Adventurer]

Cool. Battlemaster has a lot of cool options especially now with Tasha's so that makes sense. The other I wondered about was Eldritch Knight for the extra level of spell slots, or even just Champion if you wanted to stay simple.

I'd also be tempted to go to 5 for Extra Attack, but then you're definitely doing a more substantial multiclass than you are sticking to Sorcerer.

[nickl_2000]

So, this one is a little bit out there but absolutely doable.

Moon Druid 10Ranger. (by the end mine was Moon Druid 10/Ranger 4/Light Cleric 1. With MI: Wizard or High Elf to pick up BB.

1d8 + Wis Shilleilgh.
1d8 Hunter Ranger
xd8 for BB

Also, my DM agreed that both the Hunter Ranger Colossus Slayer and Hunter's Mark applied to Wild Shapes. So, he was fierce in battle at the end dropping 5d8+Wis per round (with either advantage from Great Tree Guardian Nature or +1d6 more from Hunter's Mark) in his caster from and could change into Elementals when HP got low. Then normal Druid cantrips and versatility on top of that. I don't think he ever actually went down in combat and was a monster on the battlefield (and it would have likely been worse if I did summons). I was also able to get Dragon Scale Half-Plate to overcome the metal aversion.

If you didn't want to do Moon Druid, Wildfire would actually be pretty amazing for this or Spores and you would still be great in melee.

[bendking]

There are a lot of great gishes that aren't Sorcadin/Hexadin.
I'll second Bladesinger/Arcane Trickster being a great choice, especially if you begin with Bladesinger 6 and then go into Arcane Trickster for the more roguish things.
A lot of Cleric subclasses give you heavy armor proficiency and are great MCs with Wizard/Sorcerer/Bard.

I've actually compiled all of my builds into a single post and they all range from OK to great in melee. You can take a look here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624526-BendKing-s-Baffling-Builds-Bundle).

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Cool. Battlemaster has a lot of cool options especially now with Tasha's so that makes sense. The other I wondered about was Eldritch Knight for the extra level of spell slots, or even just Champion if you wanted to stay simple.

I'd also be tempted to go to 5 for Extra Attack, but then you're definitely doing a more substantial multiclass than you are sticking to Sorcerer.

I figured level 5 was basically a dead level since GFB (or BB) does more damage than the extra attack by the time you have 11 total levels anyway.

[Mr Adventurer]

I figured level 5 was basically a dead level since GFB (or BB) does more damage than the extra attack by the time you have 11 total levels anyway.

Yeah I guess what I was imagining was Extra Attack plus Quickened Booming Blade...?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Yeah I guess what I was imagining was Extra Attack plus Quickened Booming Blade...?

Technically you can do it, but you're burning up SPs for something that isn't as impactful as a spell + cantrip combo (or in many cases Spell + many of the other things you can do with your action). Also the investment in Fighter levels means less Sorcerer levels and less times you can double up.

[Mr Adventurer]

Technically you can do it, but you're burning up SPs for something that isn't as impactful as a spell + cantrip combo (or in many cases Spell + many of the other things you can do with your action).

Well this subthread is off your build suggestion of doing just that :). EDIT: no, I see I misunderstood. Quicken a Blade cantrip after casting a spell.


Also the investment in Fighter levels means less Sorcerer levels and less times you can double up.

True.

[Salmon343]

Sadly the only 5e gish I've been able to play had paladin injected into it...hard to pass up Divine Smite. A warlock paladin multiclass, mainly for the combined awesomeness of divine and eldritch smite. I suppose straight Bladesinger also counts.

A future gish I've got in mind (with no paladin!), coming straight off Tasha's, is a Wizard Monk multiclass. Kensei 3, Bladesinger X. The Kensei levels are quite thematic - they let you wield a longsword with dex, by picking it as your Kensei weapon. You can do a similar thing with Monk 2, given Tasha's optional class features. The build comes alive at level 9, where you have extra attack and agile parry - the +2 to AC is worth dropping from weapon attack to unarmed attack, I think. Kensei 6 is an option for Stunning Strike and Deft Strike, but that'd come online really late. Another option is to turn it into a spear or quarterstaff build via polearm mastery and warcaster.

Its currently competing with a Fighter 2 Bladesinger X build, taking blindfighting and alert (in combination with bladesong) for precognition flavour, with action surge representing minor time dilation. You can do the same with the monk build, but have to take blindfighting via a feat, so it comes online way later. (Level 11 if you take a feat for con proficiency or war caster.)

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'm currently working on a melee Cleric. Nature provides Shillelagh. Either Hill Dwarf which means you can dump everything but Wis 16 and Con 17. Take Aberrant Dragonmark at 4 to get GFB or BB. Option B is the Variant 1/2 High Elf to get GFB or BB at the outset.
Both would be able to use Spiritual Weapon, Ancestral Guardians, and attack with the Shillelagh + GFB... If they have time to get it all up and running.
PAM and War Caster would give great Reactions, but that's really feat heavy and down the road.

[Klorox]

Tortle battle smith 3/bladesinger X

You have a very high AC character that is INT-SAD for spells and combat.

[mistajames]

Option 1: Straight-Up Hexblade. People often forget that they can safely continue taking levels in Warlock after grabbing this because the class is so front-loaded. Extra attacks, smites, etc. makes this very viable.

Option 2: Variant Human Cleric (War Caster or Heavy Armor Master), grabbing Booming Blade or GFB via Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper. Strap on some Full Plate, and go to town. It's not outstanding, but it is viable. This is especially true if you can also pick up Shillelagh. A Nature Cleric going club-and-board with Shillelagh and Booming Blade works OK, and lets you focus on Wisdom. Alternatively, something like Twilight Cleric with some way to grab Armor of Agathys (either a dip or a feat) works really well.

Option 3: Variant Human (War Caster) Clockwork Soul 1/Hexblade 1/Clockwork Soul X. Hexblade for easy proficiencies and Cha to-hit and to damage. Grab Armor of Agathys and make good use of your Bastion of Law ability to mitigate damage. Orzhov background for access to Spirit Guardians for maximum cheddar.

Option 4: Despite what many claim, Bladesinger is very effective if you prioritize Dex and build for it. 2-3 uses of Bladesong is enough for the tougher combats. Consider VH/Custom/Half-Elf/High Elf Bladesinger X, dual-wielding daggers (can be thrown), shortswords, or a shadow blade (depending). War Caster at 1 for concentration, then max Dex, then Int. Focus on buffs, defensive spells, and stuff that isn't affected by your low-ish Int in T1-T2 play. At L6, you can reliably do (3d8+1d8+4)+(1d6+4)+(3d8) with advantage, or about 43 average damage every round before factoring in to-hit or bonus BB damage, burning only a L3 slot (Shadow Blade), which is respectable. The CBE/Firebolt/Spirit Shroud version of the build does comparable damage. (2*(1d6+1d8+3)+(2d10+1d8) [avg 37.5])