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View Full Version : Original System Skill Points, Talents and Stats



Silly Name
2020-12-29, 03:53 PM
So, I'm currently working on a system that's heavily skill-based, and I've come to an impasse regarding the acquisition of skill points.

The core idea of the system is that for each skill (which also includes weapon use), you have five ranks: Inept, Novice, Skilled, Expert and Master. Inept means a flat roll with no modifiers, Novice is rolling and adding the relevant attribute (Strength, Agility, Vitality, Intelligence/Learning*, Willpower and Spirit), and every successive rank is a cumulative +1 to that roll. Every rank costs more than the last - to go from Inept to Novice you need to pay 2 points, and to go from Expert to Master you need 8 points - so as to encourage players to go wide rather than laser focus on a few skills or just one weapon.

*name still undecided, could also go with Wit, Memory, etc. I'd probably go with Learning but I'm not too happy with how it stands out from the other attributes

So, pretty simple so far. I've also decided to utilise talents to further customise characters - which cover a wide range of things and can go from making you better at certain things like brawling or horse-riding, to unlocking new capabilities for your character - the one rule I've given myself is that they are never flat numerical bonuses. Each talent has an associated skill point cost, and some may have other requisites such as a minimum stat score or rank in a related skill.

The one thing that I'm currently stuck at is... How to determine skill points acquisition? I initially went with "at every level up, get skill points equal to Intelligence/Memory", but that risks making Intelligence a god stat. Another option is making characters get a flat number of skill points at every level up, regardless of stats, but I'm not sure if I like that too much.

A few more things for context:

Attributes range from 1 to 6 at character creation (currently going with either with a 15-points point buy, with every stat starting at 1, or roll 2d6 keep the best for each stat), and at every even level you get one attribute point. There's a total of 10 levels.

There's four class packages/archetypes, each with its own subclasses: Expert (Thief, Hunter, Mariner), Mage (Academic, Elementalist, Occultist), Priest (Holy fighter, Oracle, Peregrine), Warrior (Brute, Defender, Warlord) -, which along progression give various features, free ranks in certain skills, etc. Technically every stat has its own use regardless of class, but your class and subclass choice obviously make you favor certain stats (Priests want to increase Spirit, Mages have their spells key off Willpower, a frontline Warrior wants to keep Vitality high, an Expert has many features dependant on Intelligence/Leaning, etc.

Classes help define stuff about your character, but the core customisation is made through Skills and Talents - two characters with the same class and subclass can still play extremely differently from first level depending on what they select. Apart from one or two features, most of what they offer is thematic abilities and ribbons.

Base resolution mechanic is roll 2d6 against target number/opposed roll. You may get Advantage, making you roll 3d6, or Disadvantage, which means you only get to roll 1d6.

So, suggestions on how to solve this conundrum?

Greywander
2020-12-29, 05:22 PM
What does leveling up do besides giving you skill points? Does it do anything at all? Could you cut out the middle man and just spend XP directly to buy skill points?

If you're worried about INT becoming an overpowered stat, here are some alternatives you could do: Your INT determines your starting number of skill points, and also you gain an extra skill point each time you raise your INT. Yes, it's a bit weird spending points on a stat that then gives you more points, but INT is actually used for things besides getting skill points, so having a point "refunded" allows you to essentially buy it more cheaply and then put the refunded point into something else.

Something that I think is important is to make sure that there is neither an incentive to start with your INT as high as possible, nor to dump it at the start and raise it immediately. For example, if your starting INT gave you extra skill points, but raising it did not, then players would be incentivized to start with INT as high as possible, even to the detriment of other stats. If, on the other hand, starting INT does nothing, but raising your INT gives extra points, then you'd want to start with it as low as possible, then raise it quickly to get free points. The best way to handle this is to make sure that the benefit is the same regardless of whether you start with a high INT or raise it later on.

Silly Name
2020-12-29, 06:21 PM
What does leveling up do besides giving you skill points? Does it do anything at all? Could you cut out the middle man and just spend XP directly to buy skill points?

Attribute increase every two levels, as well as class progression. I tried to go class-less and level-less, but I couldn't quite get it to work while also providing the progression I wanted without turning into something far too modular for my goals.

I had also considered going the route of exchanging XP for skill points directly, but I've decided to opt for a goal-based advancement and thus scrapped XP completely. It could be interesting to make players choose between increasing skills+buy talents and getting class features+increasing attributes, though.


If you're worried about INT becoming an overpowered stat, here are some alternatives you could do: Your INT determines your starting number of skill points, and also you gain an extra skill point each time you raise your INT. Yes, it's a bit weird spending points on a stat that then gives you more points, but INT is actually used for things besides getting skill points, so having a point "refunded" allows you to essentially buy it more cheaply and then put the refunded point into something else.

Hm, it seems a bit convoluted but it may work.


Something that I think is important is to make sure that there is neither an incentive to start with your INT as high as possible, nor to dump it at the start and raise it immediately. For example, if your starting INT gave you extra skill points, but raising it did not, then players would be incentivized to start with INT as high as possible, even to the detriment of other stats. If, on the other hand, starting INT does nothing, but raising your INT gives extra points, then you'd want to start with it as low as possible, then raise it quickly to get free points. The best way to handle this is to make sure that the benefit is the same regardless of whether you start with a high INT or raise it later on.

I think the problem is that keying skill points off INT may make it too attractive to the detriment of other stats. Vitality may compete because your HP are equal to your Vitality, and a basic weapon deals 1d6 damage - so at first level if you're unarmoured you risk getting OHK'd - and the only way to increase HP is to increase Vitality, but the other stats may suffer still.

Gatekeeping talents by requiring a minimum score in a related attribute should shore the prominence of INT, but I'm still worried it's not enough if skill points depend primarly on INT.

One way to what you suggest, though, may be diminishing returns. I.E., 3 INT gives you 6 skill points, 4 gives you 7, but in order to get 8 skill points you need 6 INT, if you want 9 skill points you need 8 INT, and 10 skill points demand a score of 10. it's not super elegant considering I don't have any other stat work that way, but it could be good enough.