To which heaven would you like to go?

[H_H_F_F]

In the D&D universe, people go to different planes after they die. Leaving aside questions of the afterlife and eternity, which afterlife plane in the 3.5 cosmology is closest to your personal heaven? Which plane would you like to go to for a long, long time?

Not talking about loopholes or ways to break the system, just an honest answer about which plane you think fits your identity the best.

[Edreyn]

I have always seen Bytopia as plane most similar to how I imagine heaven.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You lose your memories and identity no matter where you go, so "heaven" in The Great Wheel is anything but.

Screw the rules; I'm going for immortality. It's not exactly hard, after all. (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179.0)

[Remuko]

I'd want to go live with Bahamut in Celestia.

[H_H_F_F]

You lose your memories and identity no matter where you go, so "heaven" in The Great Wheel is anything but.

As I said, I'm leaving aside the part about the afterlife. Imagine spending a long, long time, as yourself, living the life of a departed soul in one of those planes. Which one would you want it to be?

[Eldonauran]

Celestia. I will climb that mountain, reach that garden at the top and emerge as a true Outsider, becoming the incarnate representation of the deity I worship that I was unable to attain while walking the material plane. Spreading order and goodness throughout the multiverse seems like a worthy mission to spend the rest of my eternity.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If I didn't have to die (both body and mind) to get there, Bytopia seems pretty nice. Lots of pastoral villages on one side and lots of natural beauty on the other. Though I'm not as big on the society there. All work and no play, after all.

[unseenmage]

Hmm. It depends I guess. Am I chilling with the elites on said plane or am I doomed to dine with the dregs during my heavenly vacation?

If I get to rub elbows with the resident deity, Gond or Brigh share my interests.
If I'm just living there as a resident?
Yeah, Bytopia ain't bad.

[Tzardok]

Well, if I take my philosophy about how the world works to it's logical extreme, I would most likely end up in Gehenna.

On the other hand, I a) am massively hypocritical about following through, and b) really wouldn't like to live in the Bleak Eternity. So I would most likely chose Mechanus or Arcadia. An ordered life, where I can fill a niche and build a routine without too many changes... Sounds good.

[Cruiser1]

which afterlife plane in the 3.5 cosmology is closest to your personal heaven? Which plane would you like to go to for a long, long time?
The Blessed Fields of Elysium is the true heaven! :smallsmile: Pure goodness, and not too lawful or too chaotic (which is important if you're going to be there for eternity). Elysium is incredibly restful, but at the same time there's lots of meaningful and varied things to do, and always opportunities to help others. The first layer is supremely beautiful, the second mountainous layer is wild country to explore, the swampy third layer gives monsters to fight. The fourth ocean layer has islands containing the souls of past heroes who may one day return to the material plane to fight for goodness, so if you ever tire of the afterlife and want reincarnation, pick Elysium!

Who cares about the "entrapping" behavior if you're already dead, besides that keeps the mortal tourists from staying around too long. At the same time, only on Elysium do petitioners retain some of their memories and even class levels.

Celestia is too lawful, and all you get for climbing that mountain is utter annihilation. Bytopia is all work and no play, and feels cramped with ground above you and no real sky. Beastlands is too wildly Darwinian, as sometimes you just want to relax and play with some technology. Arboria is too chaotic with animalistic Bacchae hordes running around turning you into one of them.

[H_H_F_F]

Seems like Bytopia is very popular! Wouldn't have guessed that.

I'd say probably the Beastlands for me, which are very Happy-Hunting-Grounds-esque to me.

Does anyone else feel like Elysium is way more terrifying than the nine hells?

Edit: and just as I say that, I see an enthusiastic comment for Elysium.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Nobody said you had to stay on Bytopia, or work all day every day forever if you do.

Though I'd much rather visit the version of Bytopia where the layers are 20 miles away from each other than 1 mile away, because, yeah, that would definitely feel cramped.

[Eldonauran]

Celestia is too lawful, and all you get for climbing that mountain is utter annihilation.Bah! Propaganda! That's just what the forces of evil (and their inevitable servants, Neutrality) want you to believe. :smallamused:

But, more seriously... I am all for supporting an afterlife that is about elevating souls towards goodness and providing order to stand against chaos and entropy. Those that make it to the peak, and are consumed by the Plane, were found wanting. If what is left over of you when all that is evil and chaos is stripped away, cannot stand on its own, the best use of what remains is to feed the Plane.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Bah! Propaganda! That's just what the forces of evil (and their inevitable servants, Neutrality) want you to believe. :smallamused:

But, more seriously... I am all for supporting an afterlife that is about elevating souls towards goodness and providing order to stand against chaos and entropy. Those that make it to the peak, and are consumed by the Plane, were found wanting. If what is left over of you when all that is evil and chaos is stripped away, cannot stand on its own, the best use of what remains is to feed the Plane.I...am not a fan of Good. Lowercase-g good, yes, but not Capital-G Good. After all, most Good creatures insist that others be Good as well (especially celestials and other elementally Good creatures), and making other creatures sacrifice of themselves is nothing more than slavery.

I am a much bigger fan of Neutral but with generous and merciful leanings. You do good things because it's your choice to do the right thing and it makes you happy to share your prosperity, not because you're forced into self-sacrifice until you're worn down to nothing. Much more meaningful and powerful.

[Telonius]

Kind of torn on this one. Arborea is much more to my personality, but Olidammara is on Ysgard. I'd probably go with Arborea if I had to pick.

[daremetoidareyo]

Ysgard seems like the most fun

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Kind of torn on this one. Arborea is much more to my personality, but Olidammara is on Ysgard. I'd probably go with Arborea if I had to pick.I might actually have to change mine to Arborea. Though I guess there's nothing preventing me from visiting both planes for my plane-hopping needs.

I tend to straddle the line between Neutral and Chaotic, I think, so I don't think I'd mind spending time in both places, especially if I can isekai myself into a 3.P build of my choice to defend myself from the beasties present in both planes.

[Conradine]

Dunno.

Fear I would end up in Hades, probably.

[Clistenes]

I like Elysium more, but being an Archon (all of Mount Celestia's become Archons) and rising the ranks sounds more interesting than becoming your run of the mill petitioner in Elysium and just melt and merge with the plane...

[Tzardok]

I like Elysium more, but being an Archon (all of Mount Celestia's become Archons) and rising the ranks sounds more interesting than becoming your run of the mill petitioner in Elysium and just melt and merge with the plane...

Not all of them. Unlike the batezu, who are essentially forcefully recruiting, the archons are willing to accept that not all or even most souls are able or willing to fight the good fight on the cosmic scale.

Also, my headcanon has the petioners of Elysium involved in the replenishing of numbers for the guardinals, no matter what Warriors of Heaven that horrible book says.

[Eldonauran]

I...am not a fan of Good. Lowercase-g good, yes, but not Capital-G Good. After all, most Good creatures insist that others be Good as well (especially celestials and other elementally Good creatures), and making other creatures sacrifice of themselves is nothing more than slavery.I can understand why people shy away from capital 'G' Good. The standard is simply too difficult to live up to, and would seem like slavery if it was forced upon everyone. Combine that with Law (Order) and the individual seems to be completely lost, without freedom and shackled into a certain kind of behavior.

But, hey, its ok. Good doesn't force you to do things unless it is actively protecting innocents from harm, mostly from harm that you are causing, in one way or another. There is a reason why the forces of Evil vastly outnumber them, and yet turn and fight amongst themselves.


I am a much bigger fan of Neutral but with generous and merciful leanings. You do good things because it's your choice to do the right thing and it makes you happy to share your prosperity, not because you're forced into self-sacrifice until you're worn down to nothing. Much more meaningful and powerful.All the chemical feel goods of the Good alignment without the moral obligation to follow through when times get tough. I understand. Good doesn't actually MEAN anything if it doesn't cost you ... well, EVERYTHING. Good requires sacrifice, after all. Even of your own happiness so that others are uplifted in your place. Good is a scary alignment. I know.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I can understand why people shy away from capital 'G' Good. The standard is simply too difficult to live up to, and would seem like slavery if it was forced upon everyone. Combine that with Law (Order) and the individual seems to be completely lost, without freedom and shackled into a certain kind of behavior.

But, hey, its ok. Good doesn't force you to do things unless it is actively protecting innocents from harm, mostly from harm that you are causing, in one way or another. There is a reason why the forces of Evil vastly outnumber them, and yet turn and fight amongst themselves.

All the chemical feel goods of the Good alignment without the moral obligation to follow through when times get tough. I understand. Good doesn't actually MEAN anything if it doesn't cost you ... well, EVERYTHING. Good requires sacrifice, after all.Yeah, thanks for demonstrating the self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude that annoys the hell out of me about so-called "Good." Bleh.

[Eldonauran]

Yeah, thanks for demonstrating the self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude that pisses me off about so-called "Good."
Call it what you will but what is incorrect about what I stated? Good does not mean nice. Good does not mean warm and fuzzy. Good is sharp, double edged and bites deep. It cuts through all of our illusions and reveals things in stark light. Disliking it does not change what it is. Just keep in mind that I was describing an ideal that doesn't exist in our real world (not in my experience) and I make no claim to being Good.

[unseenmage]

Is there a heavenly library? If so then I'm there. All the reading and research I could ever want? Done.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there a heavenly library? If so then I'm there. All the rradjg and research I could ever want? Done.Well, Boccob lives in the Outlands, so...

[Cruiser1]

After all, most Good creatures insist that others be Good as well (especially celestials and other elementally Good creatures), and making other creatures sacrifice of themselves is nothing more than slavery.
You're thinking of Arcadia, which is the militant plane of the Harmonium faction and its "be 'good' our way or else" attitude. That is not really good, which is why Arcadia keeps losing planar layers to Mechanus, because they're neutral at best. :smallyuk:

Real good is certainly strong and powerful, but also very gentle and relaxed, especially Elysium. Lawful Good may try to impose their form of order upon you (supposedly "for your own good" in their holier-than-thou eyes), and Chaotic Good may try to shake you up (also "for your own good" because their revolutionary attitude says you needed it), but only Neutral Good is motivated by just goodness itself. <3


Is there a heavenly library? If so then I'm there.
Yes, as with many other things, Elysium has it covered:

These islands are variously known as the Isles of the Holy Dead, the Isles of the Blessed, the Hills of Avalon, the Islands beyond the world, and the Heroic Isles... Here hero-kings wait for the day when their nations need them again, and religious scholars research great mysteries in huge libraries.

[Edreyn]

The "only work and no play" is more fit to Mechanus, rather then Bytopia. I see Bytopia rather as a world where you can do the art or craft you really love, just because you want it, for eternity. And you can do it at your own pace, no need to climb anywhere like in Celestia.

[Malphegor]

While I know that I don't have the dudebro personality to get along with others there, Ysgard seems to be the place heroes go to finally rest and train for the next big adventure. I feel my much spider-man indocrinated mindset of 'I have a responsibility to others over myself' would not only sends me there but also with a lot of heroes around I could finally learn how to apply my skills in heroic fashion.

For me right now on Earth Ysgard is full of opportunities and learning. If nothing else, I can hear people's stories and remember them for them and tell them to others in dramatic fashion. Maybe the dead heroes would like a game of d&d to pass the time?

[Conradine]

Personally I prefer evil over good...
as long as I'm on the top.

Don't know if capital Evil or not.

[Eldan]

I don't like hard work, confirmity, or meditation, and I think I might eventually get bored with peace, too. Under the idea that I'd actually be able to physically participate in the exploration and the fun, Arborea or Ysgard. Not the fighting parts of Ysgard, mind you. Nidavellir is the layer for me.

Mysterious caves, glowing crystals, warm springs, dark forests, peaceful gnome inhabitants... yeah, sounds great.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Actually, upon reflection, I want to go somewhere that's 100% insulated from FR's spellplague.

Screw the spellplague and whoever thought it was a good idea.

[Kalkra]

Step 1: Create a deity...

Tippy stuff aside, is there any way you could wrangle the Dream as your afterlife? Because that sounds like fun. For that matter, do dead people dream in this hypothetical "D&D afterlife but without all the bad stuff" thing?

Similarly, Limbo seems fun if one could eventually learn to be an anarch, hopefully with some sort of scalaing Wisdom bonus over the centuries. Ironically, that comes from a desire to create and impose order, so I wouldn't actually be able to go there, but regardless.

The problem that I have with all of the classic heavens is that they seem designed for people living in a classic fantasy world, which means probably none of them have indoor plumbing, to say nothing of free Wi-Fi.