Prestige class or multi-class for 8th-level Paladin

[Mars Ultor]

A temporary lockdown campaign has now become our regular campaign after two members of our group dropped out until we can resume in person. Thinking it was short term, I made an 8th-level Paladin and it's too late to change. I like the character personality-wise, but not mechanically. We'll be receiving experience points soon and I have to decide what I'm doing when I advance a level.

The character is LG, human, and worships Sune (Forgotten Realms). Intelligence and Dexterity are average, his other stats are decent. Most feats are allowed and so are spells from the Spell Compendium. We don't play with alternate class features, retraining, or some of the other stuff, and while many prestige classes are allowed, we're limited to the PHB core classes. I can't rewrite anything that happened prior to now, he can't suddenly be something else.

His special mount is a pegasus and the PC's feats are all mounted combat related. The pegasus gets a lot of use and has become valuable in the campaign so I'm happy with that and don't want to change.

I don't think it's worthwhile to take a 9th level of Paladin, one more use of Remove Disease isn't doing it for me. Would it make more sense to begin a prestige class, and if so which one? Or should I multi-class, Cleric maybe?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A dip in monk? A big boost in your saves, and depending on your Wis score, you might have some good AC going on. It'd help you fight while unarmed, and if you have a reach weapon, you could threaten both at reach and adjacent.

A dip in cleric would mainly be good for enlarge person (because let's face it, Core only cleric spells suck at 1st level), and that probably wouldn't work with your mounted combat. It'd also give you some minor healing, which is probably what your cleric spells would amount to.

Druid has a lot more AoE battlefield control, and you'd get an animal companion which wouldn't be terrible, depending on what you get (especially a scout or a flanking partner).

Bard could let you buff your allies while attacking, but you probably couldn't cast paladin spells while doing so.

Rogue would grant lots of skills and some bonus damage via sneak attack.

All of the above would lose a point of BAB.

Fighter would grant a bonus feat and a point of BAB and some Fort save, but not much else.

Can't do barbarian.

Core-only wizard isn't worth your while, I think.

Neither is ranger.

Sorcerer would be better, if only for the Cha synergy, although you wouldn't get too much else out of it, aside from a few party tricks.

And I can't really think of many Core PrCs that are worth much for a paladin.

So, yeah. Take it as you like it.

Unless by "Core only" you mean "Includes SRD"? Because that would open up some stuff for you.

Can you afford some spellcasting? Because two castings of polymorph any object for a Permanent (albeit dispellable) new body would be worth it for the physical boosts, reach, movement modes, and special abilities it could give you.

[MR_Anderson]

These might be helpful.

Classes that Paladins May Freely Crossclass...
Hospitaler – a divine caster who focuses on protecting others.
Justicar – bounty hunters specializing in bringing people back alive.
Justiciar of Tyr – specialty priest of the Deity of Justice, which has some Paladin-like abilities focused against Chaos.
Kensai – master of combat with a signature weapon of your choice.
Knight of the Chalice – specialized in defeating Evil Outsiders & Demons in particular.
Knight Protector – noble knight who protects the weak.
Purple Dragon Knight – heroic knights of Cormyr who lead troops in battle.
Shadowbane Inquisitor – a paladin / rogue who is focused on defeating evil and darkness.
Shinning Blade of Heironeous – specialty priest/templar of the Deity of Righteous Warfare.
Sword of Righteousness – a martial follower of one of the Pantheons of the Good Outer Planes who gains mastery of Exalted Feats.
Wild Plains Outrider – a paladin, ranger, or druid who focuses on his/her mount.

Other Prestige Classes I’d Recommend checking out...
Anointed Knight - buffs self and sword
Knight of the Weave - kind of like an arcane paladin, doesn’t stop you from taking future Paladin levels.
Shadowbane Stalker - would need to dip into some rogue.

[A.A.King]

The Cavalier from Complete Warrior is a Paladin prestige class centred around mounted combat. The problem is it has quite a few prerequisite feats that you may not all have.

Given that you are about to hit level 9, you get both a class level and a feat. Giving you some interesting options:
- A Level in Monk + The Ascetic Knight feat gives you the unarmed damage of a ninth level monk while also progressing Smite Evil
- A level in Bard + Devoted Performer gives you the songs of a 9th level bard while also progressing smite evil. You only get 1 use of bardic music per day though and you probably don't have enough skill points to go from 0 ranks in Perform to 12 Ranks in Perform, so you won't be able to use Inspire Greatness yet but you'd still be able to use Inspire Courage +2. Devoted Performer also makes it possible to be a Lawful Bard (which otherwise wouldn't be allowed).

Both Devoted Performer and Ascetic Knight are from Complete Adventurer.

Given that you aren't allowed to change any of your previous feats or skill points it may be difficult to find a good prestige class you qualify for.

[rrwoods]

Given the temporary-turned-permanent nature of the campaign, it’s worth asking for a free retrain on feats you may have chosen more haphazardly than you normally would have, to meet PrC requirements.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A lot of PrCs require specific feats and other things (such as skills) that don't exist within Core. Are those things available to you if you have those books? How about web enhancements and other web sources? They can be printed off or accessed through tablets, laptops, etc, after all.

You could always use that level to gain a level of LA for an acquired template, bloodline level, or savage progression.

[Rebel7284]

Divine Crusader is a pretty good class for a Paladin. Gets even better if you just dip for the casting and progress it with something else with better class features, but it's also fine as-is

[Darg]

What is the goal? Be a better fighter or end up with a good selection of spells? If your DM doesn't mind skipping the worship requirement, dipping a level of cleric and getting 2 levels of ordained champion can help be a better fighter. Up to 2 bonus fighter feats at 10 and at 11 can use those extra turns for extra smite anythings. Otherwise, I recommend Knight of the Weave or Divine Crusader for casting ability. If you go Divine crusader, dipping 1 level in contemplative gives you a second domain to access for spells.

[Mars Ultor]

These might be helpful.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

[Mars Ultor]

A dip in monk? A big boost in your saves, and depending on your Wis score, you might have some good AC going on. It'd help you fight while unarmed, and if you have a reach weapon, you could threaten both at reach and adjacent.

A dip in cleric would mainly be good for enlarge person (because let's face it, Core only cleric spells suck at 1st level), and that probably wouldn't work with your mounted combat. It'd also give you some minor healing, which is probably what your cleric spells would amount to.

Rogue would grant lots of skills and some bonus damage via sneak attack.

The DM isn't a fan of Monks and there always seems to be some rules issue when someone chooses Monk. I'm better off avoiding it.

Enlarge Person isn't available as a Cleric spell, I think there's one Domain that has it on the list. I don't have that domain, so it's not an option.

I've been considering Rogue but I'm the primary frontline fighter and I'm not sure if the occasional extra damage and skills are worth the drop in Hit Points.

Thank you for the suggestions, I'm going to go over them again and see what's best.

[Mars Ultor]

The Cavalier from Complete Warrior is a Paladin prestige class centred around mounted combat. The problem is it has quite a few prerequisite feats that you may not all have.

Given that you are about to hit level 9, you get both a class level and a feat. Giving you some interesting options:
- A Level in Monk + The Ascetic Knight
- A level in Bard + Devoted Performer

My first thought was Cavalier but even with the new feat at 9th level I'm still one feat short. I considered taking Fighter at 9th for the additional feat and then beginning Cavalier at 10th, but I think that hinders my ability to switch back and forth between Paladin and Cavalier.

While there are some DM issues with Monk, I might be able to pull Monk and Ascetic Knight. I didn't know about that feat, that's a great idea.

There's a single-class Bard and a multi-class Bard in the group, but that might be useful another time. Thank you for the suggestions.

[Mars Ultor]

A lot of PrCs require specific feats and other things (such as skills) that don't exist within Core. Are those things available to you if you have those books? How about web enhancements and other web sources? They can be printed off or accessed through tablets, laptops, etc, after all.

You could always use that level to gain a level of LA for an acquired template, bloodline level, or savage progression.


We don't play with the things you listed, but thanks for suggesting them.

[Mars Ultor]

Given the temporary-turned-permanent nature of the campaign, it’s worth asking for a free retrain on feats you may have chosen more haphazardly than you normally would have, to meet PrC requirements.

That might work, it would allow me get Cavalier at least. I'll see what the DM says. Thanks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sune is CG but you're LG, so any prestige classes that have an alignment matching deity's prerequisite are out.

Sune's favored weapon is a whip, which is pretty useless for a Paladin, so any prestige classes that even look at that are off the table.

There are two prestige classes that have Sune as a patron as a prerequisite, neither of which are useful: Heartwarder (pure caster, d4 hp) and Sun Soul Monk (you already said no to Monk).

I know you said no retraining, but could you hire an NPC Psion (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to use Psychic Reformation (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) on you? This would allow you to repick skill ranks and feats for one or more of your most recent levels, even going all the way back to 1st level. This could help you qualify for a prestige class immediately, rather than waiting another level before taking the one you want.

I'd say Cavalier in CW is probably the most fitting for your character.

[Mars Ultor]

Divine Crusader is a pretty good class for a Paladin. Gets even better if you just dip for the casting and progress it with something else with better class features, but it's also fine as-is

Unfortunately Sune is Chaotic Good and my PC is Lawful Good, so Divine Crusader won't work. I could ask the DM for a dispensation, but someone thought about Divine Crusader in the past and there was some discussion about the poor wording of the class. I can't remember how it was resolved. While the long-term benefits are okay, I'm not sure it's that useful overall. Thank you, though.

[Mars Ultor]

What is the goal? Be a better fighter or end up with a good selection of spells? If your DM doesn't mind skipping the worship requirement, dipping a level of cleric and getting 2 levels of ordained champion can help be a better fighter. Up to 2 bonus fighter feats at 10 and at 11 can use those extra turns for extra smite anythings. Otherwise, I recommend Knight of the Weave or Divine Crusader for casting ability. If you go Divine crusader, dipping 1 level in contemplative gives you a second domain to access for spells.

I'd like to be a better melee fighter, but unfortunately Ordained Champion isn't really appropriate for the character. Roleplaying is at least as important as combat in this campaign and being motivated by war doesn't match the established character.

Knight of the Weave isn't something I'm familiar with, I'll take a look. Thank you the suggestions.

[Cygnia]

Gray Guard in Complete Scoundrel might be something to consider.

[Mars Ultor]

Sune is CG but you're LG, so any prestige classes that have an alignment matching deity's prerequisite are out.

Sune's favored weapon is a whip, which is pretty useless for a Paladin, so any prestige classes that even look at that are off the table.

There are two prestige classes that have Sune as a patron as a prerequisite, neither of which are useful: Heartwarder (pure caster, d4 hp) and Sun Soul Monk (you already said no to Monk).

I know you said no retraining, but could you hire an NPC Psion (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to use Psychic Reformation (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) on you? This would allow you to repick skill ranks and feats for one or more of your most recent levels, even going all the way back to 1st level. This could help you qualify for a prestige class immediately, rather than waiting another level before taking the one you want.

I'd say Cavalier in CW is probably the most fitting for your character.

The DM might allow me to swap out one feat, I'll have to ask. The psychic stuff almost certainly would be allowed. I'd thought about taking a level of Fighter so I could qualify for Cavalier, but I think that might interfere with how Paladin and Cavalier cross over. This was my initial preference but I know there are others with a greater knowledge of Prestige Classes and options.

Sune fit the character and I thought it was short term, in mechanical terms she's not the best choice. I'm happy with the roleplaying aspect of the character though, so it's okay from that perspective

Thanks for your help.

[Mars Ultor]

Gray Guard in Complete Scoundrel might be something to consider.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

It wouldn't fit the character but thanks for the suggestion.

[liquidformat]

Here is the mount handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=25.0) which should have some great stuff for mounted focused paladin. Windrider might be a good choice for you if your DM is ok with a PRC from 3.0 Masters of the Wild. Normally taking Devoted tracker and beastmaster would be good but there are too many hoops to jump through if you want to keep your pegasus as your mount for that one to work, plus it works better on a halfling.

You could ask your dm if he would be willing to ignore the elf/half-elf requirement of Skylord, it seems to be what you are looking for without that racial requirement...

For feats Battle Blessing from complete champion seems like a very good choice that makes most of your paladin spells into swift actions which is very nice.