if you think about it rocks fall everyone dies doesnt work

[newguydude1]

if you think about it it doesnt work.

so lets say there are 4 players that piss off the dm. the dm says rocks fall and everyone dies.

the players can just say nope, and say that doesnt happen.
the dm can say stuff like well it happened so your all dead.
the players can just say nope. and continue roaming around in the world. and play without the dm.
the dm gets angry and leaves. well he was angry already so he gets angrier and leaves.
and one of the players can step up to dm, or recruit a dm elsewhere and keep their characters.
rocks never fell, no one died.

or something like that. a character can only die if all the players at the table accept the death. if they reject it, then they're not dead.

[Sneak Dog]

Nothing works once the social contract is broken. Rejecting the GM's proclamations means you break the social contract and the campaign is over until it is restored.

[Batcathat]

By that logic none of the rules work or matter. I could play a level one commoner and say I fly around curb stomping the gods.

So, yeah, you're correct, but I don't really see the point of it.

[gijoemike]

Blue bolts of lighting and rocks fall, and even you deity smites you for doing something out of character has never made since and doesn't accomplish what they intend. All of these suggestions/rules are to force the player/group back into acceptable behavior at the game table using a smack them with a stick approach. Except, we have literally 1000s of resources and topics of research showing that rewarding carrots vs sticks is a better training method for children, dogs, parrots, employees.


If the entire group has gone sideways and is messing with the GM, the GM should just explain to the players "Folks, you aren't focusing on the campaign, you aren't working in a team fashion, and I am not getting any enjoyment from this game. Alter your approach to the game or I will not run the game." This is a far better approach to solving issues because it states the problem and solution. Blue bolts of lighting/rocks fall is vindictive and doesn't actually air out the grievances.

[AvatarVecna]

It's supply and demand. Every game needs a DM.

Somebody who's deciding what there is to be found if the group just wanders randomly. Somebody is designing the greater plot and story, to whatever degree it exists. Somebody is in charge of making sure things go fun. And basically nobody wants to be that somebody.

So when somebody does want to be that somebody, and their idea of "what there is to be found" or "greater plot and story" or "things going fun" doesn't entirely align with yours, you put up with it until it gets really egregious. What else are you gonna do, DM? If you were gonna do that, you would've already done that in the first place.

That's just how the social contract works: the DM takes responsibility for the narrative because nobody else will, and in return the DM has a lot more narrative power than anyone else. If your DM isn't very good, or is power-tripping, that sucks. But unless somebody else is willing to do the job, your options are bad gaming and no gaming.

[Ken Murikumo]

Falling objects don't even do that much damage, either. A colossal boulder would only deal 10d6 damage. This can be half or double depending on the distance. And could even include a DC15 reflex for half damage.

20d6 with a dc15 save for half is pretty survivable for quite a few characters at mid levels.

[Melcar]

Nothing works once the social contract is broken. Rejecting the GM's proclamations means you break the social contract and the campaign is over until it is restored.

Seldomly has anything posted on this forum been more concise or true! Well done!

[GravityEmblem]

At the point where the DM kills the whole party simply for being angry at them (...in fact, any scenario where the DM kills the whole party, unless it was by ridiculously bad luck or the premise of the campaign is that you're all ghosts), the game is basically dead. There's too much bad blood between the DM and the players.

[Morty]

The phrase originates in a webcomic, where it was a joke. This situation isn't something that will happen in actual game - if things get that bad, they'll devolve into an OoC argument. So "rocks fall, everyone dies" is a colloquial phrase used to describe sudden and arbitrary death, often in hypothetical situations and hyperbole. As such, I have no idea what this thread is supposed to argue for.

[Willie the Duck]

The phrase originates in a webcomic, where it was a joke. This situation isn't something that will happen in actual game - if things get that bad, they'll devolve into an OoC argument. So "rocks fall, everyone dies" is a colloquial phrase used to describe sudden and arbitrary death, often in hypothetical situations and hyperbole. As such, I have no idea what this thread is supposed to argue for.

The point of it certainly isn't the rock falling. It is about the DM saying, in effect, 'that's it! I. Am. Done! (implied: with this campaign or at least this group of characters).' If the players want to say that in their minds the characters didn't die but instead become rich, famous, immortal, etc. -- nothing changes (also, it's pretty much the same as, 'you can't fire me, I quit!').

[Sam K]

if you think about it it doesnt work.

so lets say there are 4 players that piss off the dm. the dm says rocks fall and everyone dies.

the players can just say nope, and say that doesnt happen.
the dm can say stuff like well it happened so your all dead.
the players can just say nope. and continue roaming around in the world. and play without the dm.
the dm gets angry and leaves. well he was angry already so he gets angrier and leaves.
and one of the players can step up to dm, or recruit a dm elsewhere and keep their characters.
rocks never fell, no one died.

or something like that. a character can only die if all the players at the table accept the death. if they reject it, then they're not dead.

Well, SOMEONE took Philosophy 101 this semester.

[Particle_Man]

Falling objects don't even do that much damage, either. A colossal boulder would only deal 10d6 damage. This can be half or double depending on the distance. And could even include a DC15 reflex for half damage.

20d6 with a dc15 save for half is pretty survivable for quite a few characters at mid levels.

Depends on how many rocks, I guess.

Anyhow in my neck of the woods there are few DMs, so they get to set the tone. So “one of the players steps up to DM” is less likely than “the players stop playing rpgs until they apologize to the DM”.

[MR_Anderson]

Nothing works once the social contract is broken. Rejecting the GM's proclamations means you break the social contract and the campaign is over until it is restored.

Well said.


if you think about it it doesnt work.

so lets say there are 4 players that piss off the dm. the dm says rocks fall and everyone dies.

the players can just say nope, and say that doesnt happen.
the dm can say stuff like well it happened so your all dead.
the players can just say nope. and continue roaming around in the world. and play without the dm.
the dm gets angry and leaves. well he was angry already so he gets angrier and leaves.
and one of the players can step up to dm, or recruit a dm elsewhere and keep their characters.
rocks never fell, no one died.

or something like that. a character can only die if all the players at the table accept the death. if they reject it, then they're not dead.

Basically, the party just missed the hook into the next part of the adventure, and that Deity or Wandering Cleric/Druid/Holy Man will never get to raise the party and provide benefit to them.


Well, SOMEONE took Philosophy 101 this semester.

Funny, but there are lots of mind corrupting rituals out there other than Philosophy 101.

[Jay R]

if you think about it it doesnt work.

so lets say there are 4 players that piss off the dm. the dm says rocks fall and everyone dies.

the players can just say nope, and say that doesnt happen.
the dm can say stuff like well it happened so your all dead.
the players can just say nope. and continue roaming around in the world. and play without the dm.
the dm gets angry and leaves. well he was angry already so he gets angrier and leaves.
and one of the players can step up to dm, or recruit a dm elsewhere and keep their characters.
rocks never fell, no one died.

or something like that. a character can only die if all the players at the table accept the death. if they reject it, then they're not dead.

Of course it works. It's really just shorthand for "I quit. I'm not running the game any more." And it works. She doesn't run the game any more.

But yes, of course people can always run a different game with a different GM, even if they use the same character sheets.

I agree with you that a player or group of players can at any time simply ignore the GM and either play another game or just make up pleasant fantasies about what happens to their characters.

A role-playing game is a co-operative venture. Nothing a GM says affects me unless I agree to be in her game, and nothing a player says affects me as a GM unless he plays in my game. Since the PC doesn't exist in any case, the DM can know the PC died and the player can know the PC survived -- as long as they don't play in a co-operative game together with that PC.

You've just found a new and roundabout way to remind yourself, "It's all make-believe; none of it ever happened."

[newguydude1]

The phrase originates in a webcomic, where it was a joke. This situation isn't something that will happen in actual game - if things get that bad, they'll devolve into an OoC argument. So "rocks fall, everyone dies" is a colloquial phrase used to describe sudden and arbitrary death, often in hypothetical situations and hyperbole. As such, I have no idea what this thread is supposed to argue for.

im not arguing anything. im just sharing a thought i had. my dm jokes about rocks fall everyone dies often. emphasis on joke. so it was on my mind.

[Jay R]

im not arguing anything. im just sharing a thought i had. my dm jokes about rocks fall everyone dies often. emphasis on joke. so it was on my mind.

No problem. Exploring ideas is a good thing. But everyone else on the thread will explore them, too.

[H_H_F_F]

Once, when I was a teenager, I tried to show someone (an adult) how TTRPGs work, because he didn't really grasp the concept from my description. He wanted to be a Dwarf (the Artemis Fowl Variety). I said sure.

Me: "You're in a pitch dark tunnel, exploring a possible source of gemstones in the wall. Suddenly, you hear a rumbling sound behind you, and you can see the tunnel above you begin to collapse. What do you do?"

Him: "I fly away"

Me: "Well, you don't have any flying equipment, since you're here to tunnel. What do you do instead?"

Him: "I can fly with the power of my mind"

Me: "Ah, see? That was what I was trying to get across before, with the difference between RPGs and playing pretend. I am the arbiter of this reality, you are the arbiter of your own choices - but nit your capabilities. That's what I'm for right now, and what the rules are for when you play, for example, D&D."

Him: "You're being very close minded. I want to fly. Why should I let you or a rulebook take away my fun?"

****

RPGs function on an agreement. As players, we accept the DM as the one determining what happens in the world. As DMs, we accept the responsibility to maintain a world that would be engaging and fun for our players. Saying "Rocks fall/ No they don't" just means there is no game, its reality has been broken.

[137beth]

I think the issue is that, when you reach a point where a GM declares that all the PCs die instantly, then either
a)The very next thing the GM says is that you are all ghosts/undead/in the land of the dead and the campaign is now about dead PCs, or
b)The game in its current form is over, regardless of how the other people at the table respond.

In case (b), the game could continue without a GM, or with a new GM, or it could simply end. But the game run by that particular GM will no longer be run by that particular GM.


It's supply and demand. Every game needs a DM.


Are you sure about that (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=0_44823_0_0_0&src=fid44823)?

EDIT:


No problem. Exploring ideas is a good thing. But everyone else on the thread will explore them, too.
You can't do that! I'm the GM, so I say you can't explore ideas, and if you try to explore ideas then you've broken the social contract and the game ends, and also rocks fall and you die!

[ShurikVch]

Killer Game Master (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerGameMaster)

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/KillerGM_Draft.JPG



The meanest of monsters

Two creatures that are tougher than anything your character has ever encountered

by Craig Kraus

Dungeon Masters come in many colors, sizes, shapes, and alignments.
Two sorts of Dungeon Masters, the Killer Dungeon Master and the Sleep-Inducing Dungeon Master, are particularly nasty and are covered here. General information and common characteristics of these creatures are dealt with in this section.
These two breeds of renegade Dungeon Masters will always appear to be human beings, and continually seek new players for their campaign worlds because no sane person will play with them more than once.
Sleeping Dungeon Masters: The best time to come upon a Killer Dungeon Master is when he is asleep. Unfortunately, Sleeping-Inducing Dungeon Masters never sleep. However, the victims of a Killer Dungeon Master will find this an excellent time to avenge all of their dead characters.
Attacking a Dungeon Master: You will probably be charged with assault, though self-defense may be claimed. Check the laws in your state.
Subduing a Dungeon Master: An attack on a Dungeon Master may be made to subdue rather than to hospitalize. This usually occurs when the entire gang of players becomes enraged simultaneously and rushes the offending Dungeon Master, but no one has access to automatic weapons. Players Handbooks are often used for pummeling attacks, as well as soft-drink cans, chairs, and good old-fashioned fists. A maximum of six human-sized attackers per Dungeon Master is possible. When the Dungeon Master is no longer moving except to breathe, he has been subdued.
Example of Subduing a Dungeon Master: Two 8th-level fighters, a 7th-level dwarven fighter, an elven 4th-level fighter/6th-level magic-user, and a halfling thief of 9th level stumble upon an unarmed, wounded orc with no armor. Thinking the orc will be an easy hit, the group approaches. Suddenly the orc pulls out a ray gun and disintegrates the entire adventuring party.
“I’ve been playing that thief for three years!” yells Ken, slamming his fists on the table. Greg, not the type to be outdone, flips the table over and all the dice go with it. Sensing the group’s possible displeasure, the Killer Dungeon Master attempts to flee while Mike hurls his copies of the Players Handbook and Monster Manual; the Players Handbook hits. Pat starts throwing empty drink cans, and Nick tackles the Killer Dungeon Master as he reaches the door. Down on the ground, the Killer Dungeon Master is bombarded with dice, books, chairs, and old copies of DRAGON® Magazine. (These guys are really mad!) When the Killer Dungeon Master is no longer visible under the debris, Greg announces, “I think he’s unconscious.” Now it’s Miller Time. The Killer Dungeon Master is officially subdued.
Value of a Subdued Dungeon Master: Zilch.
Encountering Multiple Dungeon Masters: Don’t stop to ask stupid questions, just run.

KILLER DUNGEON MASTER
(Dungeus Masterus Horribilis Maximus)

FREQUENCY: Not rare enough
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 10 (8 if unwashed)
MOVE: 12” (15” if pursued)
HIT DICE: Constantly
% IN LAIR: 100% (detailed below)
TREASURE TYPE: Special, see below
NO. OF ATTACKS ON CHARACTERS: Unlimited
DAMAGE/ATTACK ON CHARACTERS: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS ON PLAYERS: Mental stress and frustration
SPECIAL DEFENSES FROM PLAYERS: Immune to pleas of mercy
MAGIC RESISTANCE: None except to mind-affecting spells, which have nothing to affect (see INTELLIGENCE)
INTELLIGENCE: As if you couldn’t guess
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic destructive
SIZE: M
PSIONIC ABILITY: Can a vacuum be psionic?

This mutant strain of Dungeon Master is found in poorly lit rooms, seated at some sort of card table (75%) or desk (25%) behind a flimsy cardboard screen covered with archaic lettering that he never reads. The table and adjacent areas are usually littered with books, notepads, empty soda cans, and miniature lead figures. The Killer Dungeon Master uses this lair to lure unsuspecting role-playing gamers into the world of his warped imagination. Once seated at the table, the players are destined to lose at least one dearly beloved character apiece. It is a cruel fate, but unavoidable at this point.
The Killer Dungeon Master thrives on eliminating player characters as fast as one can create replacements, even by computer printout. With the Killer Dungeon Master in charge, monsters will automatically become at least six hit dice more powerful than the scenario suggests is appropriate. If a module places two monsters guarding a treasure, you can count on at least fifteen being there. When a regular Dungeon Master would say, “The three orcs are dead; now you see a small chest,” the Killer Dungeon Master says, “So you killed three orcs, huh? Let’s see what you can do against twelve mind flayers!”
Killer Dungeon Masters are known to use wandering monsters, deadly traps, and the disease table in the DMG to destroy characters, but what really sets them apart from other Dungeon Masters is their access to the revolutionary new Wandering Damage System. The following information was stolen from the notebook of a sleeping Killer Dungeon Master, and is presented in its entirety for the benefit of all gaming humanity (Killer Dungeon Masters have no other treasure but this):

How To Use The Wandering Damage System
First there was the wandering monster. They serve well when applied in hordes, but why not cut out the middleman and just deal out damage to the characters directly? It makes for a smoother, faster-paced game, and if you want to kill off characters quickly, it can only be beaten by divine intervention by Cthulhoid godlings.
Instructions: Whenever a player annoys you in any way, by wearing tasteless clothes or eating the last corn chip, ask him to roll a d20. He may become worried that he’s rolling a saving throw.
Ha, ha!!! Little does he know that he just rolled on the Wandering
Damage System matrix!!! Repeat the roll as often as desired.

The Wandering Damage System Matrix

Roll Result


1
Your character has fallen down a flight of stairs; roll his dexterity or less on percentile dice, or else consult Limb Loss Subtable.


2
The monster your character just killed gets up and attacks him, doing 8-80 points of damage.


3
Your character smells smoke; his right arm is on fire. Take 14 points of damage and save vs. gangrene.


4
Your character cuts himself while shaving; consult Limb Loss Subtable.


5
Your character’s nose hairs catch fire and he dies of smoke inhalation.


6
Your character stumbles backward into a yawning chasm and disappears from view.


7
The next time your character says something, he eats his words, chokes on them, and dies.


8
Something cuts your character’s nose off, doing 2-12 points damage and really messing up his charisma.


9
Your character steps on a piece of glass; consult Limb Loss Subtable.


10
Your character suddenly catches a severe case of brain death.


11
Something invisible chews on your character, doing 6-36 points damage.


12
Your character develops an incredibly severe case of arthritis and can grasp nothing with his hands; he drops anything he’s holding — and if that happened to be a sword or an axe, consult the Limb Loss Subtable.


13-20
Consult the Random Damage Subtable for no reason whatsoever.



Limb Loss Subtable (roll d6)
1 — Left leg gone
2 — Right leg gone
3 — Left arm gone
4 — Right arm gone
5 — Head gone
6 — Torso cut in half



Dice roll
Result


01-05
Take 10 hit points damage.


06-10
Take 15 hit points damage.


11-20
Take 30 hit points damage.


21-25
Take 10 hit points damage and consult Limb Loss Subtable, modifying die roll by +5.


26-30
Take 10 hit points damage and roll again on Wandering Damage System Matrix.


31-35
Take 15 hit points damage and then take 30 more.


36-40
Roll every die you own for damage.


41-45
Take 17 hit points damage.


46-50
Take 42 hit points damage.


51-55
Multiply your character’s age by 5. Take three times that much damage.


56-60
Take 24 hit points damage and then take 31 more.


61-65
Take 1,000 hit points damage and roll again.


66-70
Roll every die within 30 feet for damage.


71-73
Add up the total hit points of everyone in the party. Take that much damage.


74-75
Take 3 hit points damage and consider yourself very lucky — for the time being.


76-00
What? You didn’t get hurt? That’s impossible — this system is foolproof. Roll again.