F1/W11 - Level up & build help

[SuseyWalenstein]

Hello!

I have a Fighter 1 / Warlock 11 (just levelled up!) that I'm having trouble with. Just feels like I do a lot wrong, but the build is mostly to have fun with some friends and I've become the single-target combat specialist... I guess?

Game Rules:
Started as a point buy system.
Level 4 stuff is points or feat - and cannot get 2 feats in a row.
Low-magic world - items with magic features are a big deal and are rare/difficult to find - so 'just get an X item' probably isn't an option
DM is a nice guy and otherwise allows you to customize a bit, as long as its thematic with your character* & sometimes adds small HP or stat bonuses for individual achievements.

So it started as Fighter, then went warlock (because the Con save proficiency just feels better than getting War Caster).

Character looks like:
Half Elf Fighter 1 / Warlock 11 (blade pact / fiend patron)
8 Str 16 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha
Half Plate armor & usually use a shield.
Magic rapier - 1d8 slashing +2d4 psychic
Invocations:
Thirsting Blade Eldritch Smite
Sculptor of Flesh Mask of many Faces
Agonizing Blast
Spells summary:
Hex, Hold Person, Banishment, Counterspell, Dimension Door, Blight, *Steelwind Strike
Feats:
Resilient Dex

I got a gentle push to become a frontline fighter when someone quit playing, so I've been trying to make the most of it and do my best.
Generally I try to use some range (Eldrich Blast!) then use the sword as targets get closer. Fun flavor attack is to drop (free action) the sword, use EB cantrip, then bonus action summon the sword back to me (if a target moves too far to attack on its turn).
But I feel like I need some help figuring out if its a better move to pick up more melee oriented things, because right now I feel like I'm trying to do too many things and not sure if I'm doing them well.

Thinking about:
Improved Pact Weapon - mine doesn't have bonuses to hit and strictly damage rolls, so it is allowed.
Life Drinker - level 12 warlock, but it would/could add some CHA based damage to melee hits (instead of to eldrich blast)
Mental Prison - It seems like a good single target attack that can buy some time - but I don't see a lot of people talk about the best uses of mystic arcanum spells
Shield Mastery (feat) - I planned to pair this with Resilient Dex to reduce getting destroyed by spells (since I don't have a big health pool relative to an actual fighter or barbarian) while taking damage in melee.

Oh right, rest of the party!
Wizard - they have a LOT of area target damage spells
Cleric - they're a recent addition, seems to mostly run as support with light heals, damage, and a little control
Bard - I don't know the college, but they're the combat-bard with some custom features (dance instead of an instrument, but they have a tambourine). Usually uses light damage and highlights buffs, debuffs, and control spells.
Druid - Our 'wild' card (haha puns!) who usually does some animal/elemental form damage over spell casting usually.
Warlock- Me! and I think you've heard enough about that...

Reassurance, suggestions, questions, and really any response is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[Frogreaver]

Hello!

I have a Fighter 1 / Warlock 11 (just levelled up!) that I'm having trouble with. Just feels like I do a lot wrong, but the build is mostly to have fun with some friends and I've become the single-target combat specialist... I guess?

Game Rules:
Started as a point buy system.
Level 4 stuff is points or feat - and cannot get 2 feats in a row.
Low-magic world - items with magic features are a big deal and are rare/difficult to find - so 'just get an X item' probably isn't an option
DM is a nice guy and otherwise allows you to customize a bit, as long as its thematic with your character* & sometimes adds small HP or stat bonuses for individual achievements.

So it started as Fighter, then went warlock (because the Con save proficiency just feels better than getting War Caster).

Character looks like:
Half Elf Fighter 1 / Warlock 11 (blade pact / fiend patron)
8 Str 16 Dex 16 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 18 Cha
Half Plate armor & usually use a shield.
Magic rapier - 1d8 slashing +2d4 psychic
Invocations:
Thirsting Blade Eldritch Smite
Sculptor of Flesh Mask of many Faces
Agonizing Blast
Spells summary:
Hex, Hold Person, Banishment, Counterspell, Dimension Door, Blight, *Steelwind Strike
Feats:
Resilient Dex

I got a gentle push to become a frontline fighter when someone quit playing, so I've been trying to make the most of it and do my best.
Generally I try to use some range (Eldrich Blast!) then use the sword as targets get closer. Fun flavor attack is to drop (free action) the sword, use EB cantrip, then bonus action summon the sword back to me (if a target moves too far to attack on its turn).
But I feel like I need some help figuring out if its a better move to pick up more melee oriented things, because right now I feel like I'm trying to do too many things and not sure if I'm doing them well.

Thinking about:
Improved Pact Weapon - mine doesn't have bonuses to hit and strictly damage rolls, so it is allowed.
Life Drinker - level 12 warlock, but it would/could add some CHA based damage to melee hits (instead of to eldrich blast)
Mental Prison - It seems like a good single target attack that can buy some time - but I don't see a lot of people talk about the best uses of mystic arcanum spells
Shield Mastery (feat) - I planned to pair this with Resilient Dex to reduce getting destroyed by spells (since I don't have a big health pool relative to an actual fighter or barbarian) while taking damage in melee.

Oh right, rest of the party!
Wizard - they have a LOT of area target damage spells
Cleric - they're a recent addition, seems to mostly run as support with light heals, damage, and a little control
Bard - I don't know the college, but they're the combat-bard with some custom features (dance instead of an instrument, but they have a tambourine). Usually uses light damage and highlights buffs, debuffs, and control spells.
Druid - Our 'wild' card (haha puns!) who usually does some animal/elemental form damage over spell casting usually.
Warlock- Me! and I think you've heard enough about that...

Reassurance, suggestions, questions, and really any response is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Take crossbow expert on level up and never melee again!

[SuseyWalenstein]

Character has never used a crossbow, can't be an expert :smallannoyed:

[Unoriginal]

Have you considered taking a second level of Fighter for Action Surge?

[SuseyWalenstein]

I've been wanting to get the Hurl through Hell feature *really* badly, because I love the visual thematic and damage.

But yes, I am planning to get action surge after that (and probably a 3rd level to pick up an archetype) , as long as I can keep the character alive.

[Bobthewizard]

CBE lets you use Eldritch Blast in melee without disadvantage. So if you took CBE and dropped the sword, you'd get 2 invocations back that you could use for repelling blast and lance of lethargy. Instead of CBE, I might just increase Cha to 20 for better accuracy and damage, then stay out of melee.

If you like the sword, though, stick with it. Armor of Agathys is good for a melee Warlock. I like both improved pact weapon and life drinker. If you are swinging the rapier a lot, then I'm torn between Cha and Dex.

If you want more survivability, Tough might do more for you than Shield Master, although you have a cleric, a bard, and a druid in the party that should be able to pick you back up when you drop so I'd likely focus on improving my single target damage.

[arnin77]

I would second the level 2 of fighter for action surge, but warlock 12 for either +2 cha (up spell save dc and attack) or getting a feat (maybe medium armor master for more AC? But I would second tough or even +2 con for more HPs and helping con saves)

Depends how you are playing. Might want to ask yourself what you’d like to improve on your character the most and go from there?

(Might want to pick up booming blade and warcaster if front lining with sword and shield?)

[SuseyWalenstein]

Thanks for clarifying on CBE (which... took me a minute to figure out the acronym), Bob! I would probably need to check with my DM on the disadvantage rule, but I hadn't thought of it applying to spell casting. He'd probably allow it, or maybe offer a variation / customization.

The sword has been a thing I'm conflicted with - since Pact of the Blade - but ever since our quitter changed me to moving take it (the Wizard, Druid, and Cleric were picked up since then so it changed our dynamic).
Just feels like I'm not playing right if I don't use a weapon but have that feature, but may be time to look at life past it.

Healing generally isn't an issue - though even with 3 potentials, the bulk of mine comes from 2nd Wind (fighter) & healing potions - which my character because the bearer of, for no logical reason other than someone needed to do it (house rule bonus action to take one yourself, but action to administer to others).
I looked at Tough for the health pool bonus, but I generally stay back until a 'boss' then become the melee tank a lot... I have a higher AC with the shield than the rest of the group, and usually do a good job of avoiding damage because of the Resilient Dex saves (+9), but just get worried because big spells (like a dragon breath or enemy fireball) damage against me means more when I'm also taking the bulk of a creature's melee hits (and I don't have any other ideas to reduce that).

Thanks for the ideas!

[SuseyWalenstein]

Arnin,

I went with my first level into fighter - so I can use medium armor (thank all things there aren't stringent STR requirements to all armor).
This also gave me proficiency with STR & CON saves - so I felt like warcaster might not be necessary (which, yeah, I agree it usually is since spell slots... ugh... so few!).

Booming blade... I've seen it mentioned, but can't fully figure out why people like it so much - if someone can educate me?
I have Green Flame Blade (which I've used maybe twice, so not in love with) because it still allows me to hit 2 targets when giving up an attack (since, as is my understanding, I lose an attack to cast the cantrip).

Let me know! Thanks!

[Keravath]

1) If you want to be effective in melee you are missing the best warlock melee spell.

Shadow of Moil

It is the only thing you should be casting and concentrating on when focusing on melee combat. It makes you heavily obscured without affecting your vision. Creatures have disadvantage to hit you and you have advantage to hit them. It does the same for agonizing blast but if you are the one everyone wants to tank then it helps immensely with both defence and damage.

2) Life drinker at 12th level warlock combined with an ASI to boost charisma will add +5 damage to every weapon attack. This will help keep your weapon damage comparable to agonizing blast at least until level 17. The ASI also increases your to hit. This could be further boosted by taking improved pact weapon and dropping one of the other invocations. (At 12th level warlock you have 6 invocations known).

Those are the two things I would do if you want to enhance the characters melee ability. Their ranged ability is fine as is with agonizing blast.

Also, at level 11/12 you have 11 spells known but you have only listed 7 - you should know at least 4 more spells - so make sure Shadow of Moil is one of them. Other than that, having reached level 11 warlock you at least now have 3 level 5 spell slots to use which refresh on a short rest. Personally, I find Eldritch Smite to be flashy and fun to use on a crit but is otherwise not such a good use of a spell slot, situationally useful though.

P.S. An elemental form moon druid is probably a better "tank" than you are and a cleric can often tank just as well as you can unless you are using Shadow of Moil which makes you harder to hit so I am not sure why folks would lean on you for "tanking". This does leave open the option of pivoting towards agonizing blast with invocations to support it like repelling blast. However, I think you melee focus with tweaks would probably be more fun.

P.P.S. I would probably not have spent a feat on resilient dex.Your character gets d8+con hit points/level, a fighter gets d10+con - if you are using average hit points (or on average when making die rolls) the difference is 1 hp/level. So a level 12 fighter character would only have 11 hit points more than you with the same stats. At higher levels proficiency in con and wis saves is MUCH more important. Dex is typically just damage and spending a feat to reduce damage when you are only 11 hit points below a fighter isn't that useful. On the other hand, failing a save against dominate person or any number of other spells that target wisdom is not a good situation to be in. I would probably have started with 14 dex rather than 15, boosted wisdom and taken resilient wisdom instead of dex ... but you probably can't change that now. Basically, unless your DM just loves to throw area of effect dex save spells at the party all the time, wisdom save proficiency might be more useful.

[arnin77]

Arnin,

I went with my first level into fighter - so I can use medium armor (thank all things there aren't stringent STR requirements to all armor).
This also gave me proficiency with STR & CON saves - so I felt like warcaster might not be necessary (which, yeah, I agree it usually is since spell slots... ugh... so few!).

Booming blade... I've seen it mentioned, but can't fully figure out why people like it so much - if someone can educate me?
I have Green Flame Blade (which I've used maybe twice, so not in love with) because it still allows me to hit 2 targets when giving up an attack (since, as is my understanding, I lose an attack to cast the cantrip).

Let me know! Thanks!

Medium armor master would allow you to add your +3 dex instead of +2 to AC. But it might be trivial. I think it takes away the disadvantage from half plate stealth too.

Sorry I didn’t realize you had 2 attacks, but generally booming blade attack for front liners is to make you more sticky because the enemy won’t want the additional damage if they have to run away and then warcaster would let you booming blade as an opportunity attack if they actually move.

If you prefer green flame blade better though I think you could also use that with warcaster as an opportunity attack. All depends how you like to play though. I don’t usually play warlocks so I don’t know the best way to play one - was just trying to give you some options :)

Honestly though if you are frontlining I’d probably go fighter 2 for action surge, if you’re staying back and casting EB then I’d probably do warlock 12 and +2 cha.

[SuseyWalenstein]

Keravath,

Shadow of Moil - Totally looks to fit with something I could use. Thanks for the suggestion! Just battles for concentration with Hex, which makes it a little hard. But advantage/disadvantage is definitely worth strong consideration.
Life Drinker - Yeah, it's the one that makes the most sense to take as that extra invocation slot since it adds the static damage. I just need to find something to give to get it since the +1 hit and damage will largely put its damage to similar to 3 Eldrich Blasts (currently it's -1 to hit with melee, and the potentials are different since the dice are different).

My other spells are Fly, Charm Person, Dimension Door - I just leveled so I hadn't picked my 11th spell yet. Nor my Mystic Arcanum (level 6 spell).

The druid is also a multiclass, so he just got elemental forms and the earth elemental was pretty beefy. Our campaign story is at a cross between his and the Wizard's backstories, so he was drawn away from combat - and the character is like a hyperactive cat (always curious and runs off chasing things). But he does his best with what he's playing.

No big Wis/Int save bothers me a little, but I'm proficient in STR, DEX, and CON, with a decent CHA (because... warlock). Half Elf, so I do have advantage on being charmed. Something's gotta give.

Great suggestions. Thanks!



Arnin,

I didn't think of warcaster / booming blade as a movement deterrent... Its other features are definitely worth some consideration. I've thought about trying to get Sentinel or Mage Slayer so things cannot get away from me.
Our usual combat things tend to not leave me... I think the GM pushes me at those moments to see if he can push my HP down. I suspect he's planning something dramatic for my Fiend Patron if I die (the pact was made under duress, so me and my character both don't know the extent of the contract).

Thanks for the suggestions!

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I was also going to suggest the Medium Armor Master thing. Probably only worth it if you and your group plan to stealth though, then you are effectively getting +2 extra AC in half plate vs breastplate without. Kind of depends how you want to play your character though. We tend to like sneaking around to avoid or get the upper hand.

[J-H]

How often do you have advantage on your attack rolls? Elven Accuracy is nice if you have good sources of Advantage.

[Zaile]

I like the build.

Count me in as second (or third?) for Warlock 12 for Cha increase and Lifedrinker. Shadow of Moil too.

I may have missed it, but what is your fighting style?
Def is good if you're getting hit too much
Dueling is +2 more damage. Combined with Lifedrinker, you get +10 (3 from Dex, 5 from Cha 2 from style) to each attack at 12.

[SuseyWalenstein]

Medium armor master would be good for swanking, but our group is dreadful at it. We scout, we plan, someone always fails a roll to get in place and all hell breaks loose (which usually makes us laugh at how badly we execute plans). But we usually find a way to get through before shouting out a safe-word.

I could get advantage more with shadow of moil, but otherwise it’s a little sparse. We don’t use flanking advantage.

Cha + Lifedrinker is definitely a viable route also. I was thinking of spell hit and dc and how you only get so much opportunity to up them. But I would think I would want lifedrinker with improved pact weapon for the +1 hit +1 damage if I were going life drinker.
I used my fighter feature for +1AC because it was early on and I was getting hit a LOT (DM admitted to trying to make me a target 1) to increase fight difficulty and 2) because at that point I was the easiest for his monsters to hit). I went unconscious in the last round 4/6 fights at the start - the 2 other party members literally dragged my character back while unconscious on one... still some friction (haha, puns!) from that one.

Messy warlock build.... thanks for all the suggestions!
Happy new year!