LF Variant Rule: Aiming a spell

[Yogibear41]

Normally when casting a spell such as flame strike you simply pick the location and poof the spell happens exactly in the place you want, no matter if its 20ft away or near the maximum range of the spell. Our DM has said in the past he doesn't not like fact that you can have pinpoint accuracy for aiming a spell possibly hundreds of feat away. We are looking for some sort of variant rule to abjucate this.

Say you have a group of fighters on your side and a group of monsters on the other side fighting approximately 200ft away in something akin to a shield wall, the range is close to your maximum range, and you want to cast a Flame strike to hit only the monsters, and not your own fighters, normally you just cast the spell and poof it happens perfectly, what we are looking for is something say some sort of roll to determine if you placed it exactly where you wanted it, maybe say you misjudged the distance by 5ft, and you accidentally blast your guys too.

[MR_Anderson]

Multiple Answers to this.

1) It is magic, it works this way.

2) Concentration check, “directing a spell“

While not exactly how I interpret the “directing a spell“ portion of the the skill, but there is enough room for your DM to read into this and implement such a check.

“In general, if an action wouldn’t normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted.”

A check such as this should be low that character’s really only fails on a 1 if it doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity in my opinion.

The thing we don’t grasp is that magic is magic, and spell casters use it all the time, so they understand it, and players and DM’s don’t.

[icefractal]

I'm not saying I'd use this myself, but if I were going to have a mis-aiming rule, I'd base it off the existing "splash weapon" rules.

Make a ranged attack against AC 5, using your casting stat in place of Dexterity (since you're not physically throwing/shooting it). Range increment is based on the spell's range, max five increments:
Close: 10'
Medium: 40'
Long: 160'

At CL 5th, double this increment. At CL 15th, triple it (levels chosen so that it maintains the same relative average). Enlarge Spell doubles the total as usual.

If it misses, roll displacement as for a splash weapon, so by 5' per range increment in a random direction.

Since this introduces the possibility of an auto-miss on a 1, I'd add a crit equivalent on a 20 - targets must save twice and take the lower, ala PF Persistent Spell.

[MR_Anderson]

I'm not saying I'd use this myself, but if I were going to have a mis-aiming rule, I'd base it off the existing "splash weapon" rules.

Make a ranged attack against AC 5, using your casting stat in place of Dexterity (since you're not physically throwing/shooting it). Range increment is based on the spell's range, max five increments:
Close: 10'
Medium: 40'
Long: 160'

At CL 5th, double this increment. At CL 15th, triple it (levels chosen so that it maintains the same relative average). Enlarge Spell doubles the total as usual.

If it misses, roll displacement as for a splash weapon, so by 5' per range increment in a random direction.

Since this introduces the possibility of an auto-miss on a 1, I'd add a crit equivalent on a 20 - targets must save twice and take the lower, ala PF Persistent Spell.

That isn’t RAW though.

The problem is, if a DM tells me as a wizard that I have to roll to attack for my spell, that means I can now miss, so I’m going to say okay they don’t get saves anymore, otherwise this is BS.

The system is designed a certain way, and even if you hit with a spell, you can have all the damage negated by many different means. Melee combatants can hit multiple times in one round doing multiple forms of damage types.

[Darg]

That isn’t RAW though.

The problem is, if a DM tells me as a wizard that I have to roll to attack for my spell, that means I can now miss, so I’m going to say okay they don’t get saves anymore, otherwise this is BS.

The system is designed a certain way, and even if you hit with a spell, you can have all the damage negated by many different means. Melee combatants can hit multiple times in one round doing multiple forms of damage types.

It's creating a variant rule that doesn't currently exist.

You could roll a d20. 10-20 hits the appropriate square. 2-9 hits an adjacent square. A 1 means you are way off. Roll a d4 to determine which cardinal direction. The center of the AoE happens at the edge of the originally desired area in the direction determined by the d4. A d8 adds corners to the cardinal square.

[MR_Anderson]

It's creating a variant rule that doesn't currently exist.

You could roll a d20. 10-20 hits the appropriate square. 2-9 hits an adjacent square. A 1 means you are way off. Roll a d4 to determine which cardinal direction. The center of the AoE happens at the edge of the originally desired area in the direction determined by the d4. A d8 adds corners to the cardinal square.

I would recommend sticking to the Concentration Check before implementing a variant D20 roll, as that 10-20 is basically a 50% miss, and we have to remember that the targets still get saves with possible evasion for these AoE spells. Concentration becomes a 5% miss just like a high level fighter.

[King of Nowhere]

I'm not saying I'd use this myself, but if I were going to have a mis-aiming rule, I'd base it off the existing "splash weapon" rules.

Make a ranged attack against AC 5, using your casting stat in place of Dexterity (since you're not physically throwing/shooting it). Range increment is based on the spell's range, max five increments:
Close: 10'
Medium: 40'
Long: 160'

At CL 5th, double this increment. At CL 15th, triple it (levels chosen so that it maintains the same relative average). Enlarge Spell doubles the total as usual.

If it misses, roll displacement as for a splash weapon, so by 5' per range increment in a random direction.

Since this introduces the possibility of an auto-miss on a 1, I'd add a crit equivalent on a 20 - targets must save twice and take the lower, ala PF Persistent Spell.
I was going to suggest something like this myself. i considered a variant rule like this myself, but dropped the idea because too much hassle. just like when an archer misses in melee i don't try to determine if he accidentally hits something else.

anyway, i'd use your ranks in spellcraft as an additional attack bonus here. spellcraft represents how good you are with field spellcasting, and that's the best place to include eyeballing the spell's exact area of effect.

[MR_Anderson]

I was going to suggest something like this myself. i considered a variant rule like this myself, but dropped the idea because too much hassle. just like when an archer misses in melee i don't try to determine if he accidentally hits something else.

anyway, i'd use your ranks in spellcraft as an additional attack bonus here. spellcraft represents how good you are with field spellcasting, and that's the best place to include eyeballing the spell's exact area of effect.

When I double checked myself after I though Concentration was the skill that should be used, I looked specifically at Spellcraft, but it practically has nothing to do with the actual casting, only a little bit with spell preparation.

Think of it this way...

Knowledge (Arcana) is knowing what Magic exists.
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Spellcraft is understanding how Magic effects work.
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Concentration (with Levels) is the ability to control and wield Magic.

It is kind of a progression, a character finds through Knowledge Arcana/Religion that a magic spell exists or is possible to create, Then Spellcraft helps him to be able to learn how he can cast it, and finally when he wields the magic Concentration is used in casting or controlling a spell.

Concentration is absolutely the skill to use if the character needs to make such a check. Making the check a Spellcraft check isn’t outside the realm of reality, but I would lean against it.

Main casters should have quite a few ranks in Concentration, where as someone that dabbles or just dips in probably will not. Remember casting a spell is a craft of weaving, weaving usually something that can not be seen. To get it right, the caster really needs to concentrate on what they are doing.