Is my build too unoptimzed?

[Fashionisdanger]

Hello! I have a character picture in mind, which is a greatsword paladin that charges into battle with fairly high magical power. A guardian against extraplanar fiend, with extraordinary leadership capabilities.
I translated this into a Watchers Paladin with blessed warrior, inspiring leader and of course a plate and a trusty greatsword.

However, I reckon this to be a more all-rounder / off-tank build (which I like) and since I am probably going to be alone in the frontline I wonder if, in the long run, I am going to be tanky enough. I considered going S&B, especially because enchanted shields are a thing, but eeeeehhh.... I really like greatswords.

So is paladin tanky enough as a class, even without optimizing for defense?

[Ir0ns0ul]

Paladins have really strong defense capabilities. Lay on Hands is great, although not too great action economy. You can always cast Shield of Faith to boost your AC and bring more healing to the table through Cure Wounds.

Don’t hesitate to Dodge whenever you see yourself around several enemies.

[Unoriginal]

Hello! I have a character picture in mind, which is a greatsword paladin that charges into battle with fairly high magical power. A guardian against extraplanar fiend, with extraordinary leadership capabilities.
I translated this into a Watchers Paladin with blessed warrior, inspiring leader and of course a plate and a trusty greatsword.

However, I reckon this to be a more all-rounder / off-tank build (which I like) and since I am probably going to be alone in the frontline I wonder if, in the long run, I am going to be tanky enough. I considered going S&B, especially because enchanted shields are a thing, but eeeeehhh.... I really like greatswords.

So is paladin tanky enough as a class, even without optimizing for defense?

18 from plate armor is already pretty good, I think you'll be fine.

[Anymage]

As noted, Shield of Faith is a bonus action spell that boosts you as much as a physical shield would. You shouldn't have trouble getting passable AC and HP scores.

Will that be enough in your party? I have no clue, and it doesn't matter. No clue because I have no idea how your DM will play things. Some might channel tough enemies at you because you're "the tank" and expect you to optimize for survivability. Others might scale the opposition so you don't have to worry too much no matter your builds (this also depends on how optimized the rest of the party is), while others still will have enemies rush after soft targets unless you can physically hold a chokepoint to prevent them. None of us here can predict what sort you'll be facing.

As for the doesn't matter part, if you're being counted on to take hits and you wind up taking too many and your HP keeps dropping perilously low, you can always look for a longsword and shield somewhere. If this is a starting character you can just buy them, since magic stuff is unlikely to come up for a while. It isn't like you're sinking your fighting style and feat into great weapons which locks you in. (Spending your fighting style on cantrips does trade off some of your combat capability, but that again goes back to the question of how hardcore optimized the rest of the party is.) Starting with a greatsword does not obligate you to keep using it if the situation winds up preferring something else.

[Unoriginal]

Keep in mind, though, that just being tough and/or hard to hit doesn't make you a tank. A tank needs a way to make themselves priority target, or to shied allies from the foes' attacks, or similar ways to prevent the teammates from being hurt.

You don't *have* to be a tank, though. Greatsword Paladin as frontline DPS is perfectly viable.

[MrStabby]

You will be fine unless you do something silly with stat allocation.

Paladins are an obscenely strong class and as long as you have enough Str to wear plate without penalty and a half decent charisma you should be OK whatever you do.

Also, nothing wrong with being a good all rounder with strong offence and strong defence. Some might bemoan lack of feats like PAM by going greatsword but you gain enough from stat increases (as a MAD class) and with Tasha's there are great feats like fey touched that will serve you very well.

[da newt]

Why is the greatsword so appealing to you? In my opinion (and acknowledging opinions are like bumholes - we've all got them) I've always found them dull thematically. Everyone has one of those - how pedestrian.

Have a Maul. You can buy 5 mauls for the price of one greatsword, they do just as much damage (2d6), have a better damage type, and you get to crush stuff and Gallagher bad guys.


Another option is to go PAM with a 2hander (reach) or spear and shield to give yourself more chances to SMITE and more Opp Atts (but at the cost of a feat).


To answer your question specifically, NO your build is just fine. Paladin are powerful and neigh impossible to mess up. Protection from Evil and Good is another great spell to improve your survivability (especially with your anti-fiend theme).

[Tanarii]

Keep in mind, though, that just being tough and/or hard to hit doesn't make you a tank. A tank needs a way to make themselves priority target, or to shied allies from the foes' attacks, or similar ways to prevent the teammates from being hurt.Agreed. For example in games with access to feats, Sentinel is a great Greatsword tanking feat.

[loki_ragnarock]

I clicked into this thread expecting to see a sorcerer who took only a couple of specific spells.

Then I saw it wasn't that it was about something else and the question was instantly answered.

Your build is fine.

[Fashionisdanger]

Thanks a lot! I am used to play games with very high stakes, and thus going for a less tanky build while being a front-liner short-circuited me a bit. However, I see your points and my DM is a cool person, so I guess I will do fine!

To reply to the person that pointed out that Mauls are cooler than Greatsword... Well, he is damn right! However with my paladins I prefer a lot more the knightly look, which in my mind is best expressed by swords in general. Said so, my weapon trainer from my background is a dwarf war priest who uses a maul, so of course I thought about that :D

[Gignere]

Thanks a lot! I am used to play games with very high stakes, and thus going for a less tanky build while being a front-liner short-circuited me a bit. However, I see your points and my DM is a cool person, so I guess I will do fine!

To reply to the person that pointed out that Mauls are cooler than Greatsword... Well, he is damn right! However with my paladins I prefer a lot more the knightly look, which is in my mind is best expressed by swords in general. Said so, my weapon trainer from my background is a dwarf war priest who uses a maul, so of course I thought about that :D

Consider picking HAM as a feat it will make you really tanky at low levels, and even at high levels it will still be a pretty good damage mitigation. You can also pick defense fighting style because GWF sucks unless your DM rules it works on the smite damage and not just the weapon damage. With HAM and 19 AC you’ll be damn hard to take down.

[Sception]

You'll do fine. As others have said, consider shield of faith as a protective spell when necessary. For sword & board paladins it's usually overkill, and even with a greatsword Bless is /usually/ the better concentration spell, but SoF is an important tool in the box.

Paladin is strong out of the box, and greatswords are a solid weapon choice. You'll do fine.

[Fashionisdanger]

Consider picking HAM as a feat it will make you really tanky at low levels, and even at high levels it will still be a pretty good damage mitigation. You can also pick defense fighting style because GWF sucks unless your DM rules it works on the smite damage and not just the weapon damage. With HAM and 19 AC you’ll be damn hard to take down.

I am used to consider Defense with Sword and Board builds, but you are right, with a free hand I can do all the RAW casting I want and to reach distant enemies I can throw an axe or javelin with my free hand (which looks very badass and I won't NEED a ranged cantrip). I will consider it, since on a greatsword build I bet that +1 AC is going to be helpful.

As much as I like HAM, for this paladin I think I will go with Resistance (Con) ASAP because my Constitution is 13 and I really don't want to lose concentration on those buffs if I can.

[Fashionisdanger]

You'll do fine. As others have said, consider shield of faith as a protective spell when necessary. For sword & board paladins it's usually overkill, and even with a greatsword Bless is /usually/ the better concentration spell, but SoF is an important tool in the box.

Paladin is strong out of the box, and greatswords are a solid weapon choice. You'll do fine.

I LOVE Bless! Is both offense AND defense! I miss from NWN the possibility to switch on the go from turtling in S&B to holding a longsword with two hands and start power attacking, but I guess that in this edition SoF and Divine Favor might serve that purpose, as they are both Bonus Actions. I really like to idea to switch from a defensive to an offensive "stance" if needed.

[Frogreaver]

Paladins have plenty of defense.

My recommendations:

Take the defensive style. This gets you to 1 AC behind sword and shield.

Take mostly defensive spells.

Wrathful smite is a great tanking ability.

I prefer healing to shield of faith (low chance in any given fight that +2 ac matters)

[Tokeull]

Go out and buy a one hand weapon and a shield. You dont need to use it. It just give you the opiten to swap for greatsword to one hand and shield, if you need.

[Sception]

I LOVE Bless! Is both offense AND defense! I miss from NWN the possibility to switch on the go from turtling in S&B to holding a longsword with two hands and start power attacking, but I guess that in this edition SoF and Divine Favor might serve that purpose, as they are both Bonus Actions. I really like to idea to switch from a defensive to an offensive "stance" if needed.

It's a neat gimmick, but keep in mind that, as a half caster, you don't have many spell slots to do this with, so shifting between concentration spell 'stances' this way is more of an encounter to encounter thing, not something you'll generally want to do within a single encounter, not unless you lose concentration due to a failed save causing a spell to end early.

Bless IS great, and most of the time you should be going with that, unless someone else in the party has already cast it. It's a go to spell for clerics as well, at least until they gain access to spirit guardians.

Keep in mind that you will want to keep a slot or two free to smite with when appropriate, too. Lots of pressure on paladins' limited spell slots.

Also remember your lay on hands pool. Without a shield you might get hit a few more times, but you do have a built in healing pool to patch yourself up between battles.

Again, you'll do fine. Paladin is strong, great swords are strong. Pick up great weapon master when you have a spare ASI, and couple it with the Bless spell to offset the hit penalty. You'll be smashing the forces of evil like nobody's business.