How does LA buyoff work in a gestalt game?

[Skyrender]

I have a weird question rattling around in my head, and no idea what the answer is.

Say someone starts playing in a gestalt game with a character that has a strong race or a template that inflicts a level adjustment template. My reading of the gestalt rules is you have Column A and Column B, with the classes going in Column A for for however many levels, and the LA of the template in Column B. For example if you start with 1,000 XP at the start of your game, enough for level 2, your character might begin with rogue 1 followed by fighter 1 in Column A and the race/template/whatever in Column B, and in-world the character seems like a level 1 gestalt. After that, he adds 1 level to each base class whenever he levels up.

Okay, fine. That's reasonable, right?

But my real confusion is what happens when you wants to buy off the LA of the template or whatever, and when you can do so. In Unearthed Arcana it says you can do this when you've had the LA for a number of levels equal to your current LA, x3. So buying off a +1 LA race or template could be done at level 3, a +2 LA that you have from the start of play could be bought off at level 6, and so on. But in a gestalt game, you might have level 3 in one side of the gestalt, but only level 2 on the other. Do you go by the level in the column with the LA, or the highest number of levels?

[Crake]

I have a weird question rattling around in my head, and no idea what the answer is.

Say someone starts playing in a gestalt game with a character that has a strong race or a template that inflicts a level adjustment template. My reading of the gestalt rules is you have Column A and Column B, with the classes going in Column A for for however many levels, and the LA of the template in Column B. For example if you start with 1,000 XP at the start of your game, enough for level 2, your character might begin with rogue 1 followed by fighter 1 in Column A and the race/template/whatever in Column B, and in-world the character seems like a level 1 gestalt. After that, he adds 1 level to each base class whenever he levels up.

Okay, fine. That's reasonable, right?

But my real confusion is what happens when you wants to buy off the LA of the template or whatever, and when you can do so. In Unearthed Arcana it says you can do this when you've had the LA for a number of levels equal to your current LA, x3. So buying off a +1 LA race or template could be done at level 3, a +2 LA that you have from the start of play could be bought off at level 6, and so on. But in a gestalt game, you might have level 3 in one side of the gestalt, but only level 2 on the other. Do you go by the level in the column with the LA, or the highest number of levels?

The reason this is getting confusing for you is because you're gestalting the LA, which is technically a houserule. LA normally isn't gestalted, and so buying it off just functions as normal. By gestalting the LA, you increase the power level of your character already, so I would just leave the LA as is and not worry about buy-off, as the LA buyoff rules aren't compatible with gestalted LA.

[Zancloufer]

I believe you are over thinking it. LA buy-off should work the same way in gestalt as normal play. Basically how LA buy-off usually works (roughly) is that instead of leveling up you reset your EXP to the base for your current level but have one less LA. IE: With a LA+1 race upon reaching enough EXP for level 4 (10k EXP) instead of leveling up you reduce your EXP to 6k but remove the LA+1.

For gestalt you do the same thing. Let us assume a level 3 PC. On one side they have 3 levels in Wizard and on the other side they have 2 levels in Warblade and LA+1. For their 1st level they have just wizard 'HD' but for the other two they combine the best of the two. Upon hitting level 4 they can "spend" the 4K EXP difference between level 3 and 4 to remove said LA. At this point however they can replace that LA+1 with another level of Warblade now becoming a proper 3//3 Gestalt, rebuilding their 1st level and gaining level 3 Warblade abilities.

Also on a final note: I'm not 100% sold on LA on one side of a Gestalt being a hosue-rule. Technically things like LA buff off and Gestalt are quasi houserules already and IMHO LA is a bit harsh to start with. LA on both sides of a Gestalt would be just brutal.
Then again I also though fractional BaB/Saves wasn't an optional rule but just common sense.

[Crichton]

My reading of the gestalt rules is you have Column A and Column B, with the classes going in Column A for for however many levels, and the LA of the template in Column B.

This is the source of your problem. Your reading of how Gestalt works is incorrect.



You don't have two columns, and you don't technically even have a level in each class at each level.

You have one level at each level increment, which is a gestalt level composed of the sum total of the class features from both classes, and an amalgam of the best HD, BAB, saves, and skill points picked from each class.

There is no 'Column A and Column B' at all. In your example, your character doesn't have both 3 levels in wizard and also 3 levels in warblade. They would have 3 wizard//warblade gestalt levels. Any LA you have from race or template applies to the entire character and their progression in those gestalt levels, so if you are total character level 3 and have LA+1, then overall you only have 2 levels in wizard//warblade gestalt. Buyoff of LA would then work just exactly as it does in non-gestalt games.

So Crake is 100% correct in that the LA applies to 'both sides' of the gestalt, overall, unless you make some major houserule changes to how gestalt works.


(The specifics of how gestalt works can be found on the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm#buildingAGestaltCharacter) or on page 72 of Unearthed Arcana