How V and Inky met

[Riftwolf]

I don't know if this has already been discussed in print comics, and it's unlikely to ever be discussed at this point in the main comic. But I was wondering if Rich ever did another bout of short stories, whether this would be one other people would like to see? Even though we know how it ends so it'll be bittersweet, I thought it'd be good to see a different angle on V rather than stuffy logic.

[Mad Humanist]

I don't know if this has already been discussed in print comics, and it's unlikely to ever be discussed at this point in the main comic. But I was wondering if Rich ever did another bout of short stories, whether this would be one other people would like to see? Even though we know how it ends so it'll be bittersweet, I thought it'd be good to see a different angle on V rather than stuffy logic.

I imagine we'd all be rooting for Inky in that. I mean we'd all be screaming: "No, you can do better, Inky. You can do better."

[BaronOfHell]

It is strange to consider. My impression is that V has been away from home for years or centuries, but he has also adopted children who attend kindergarten - https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html. While elves do live longer and do mature more slowly, it does seem like even by their standards he has been gone for a long time.
I have always imagined the process of adoption is one of high standards, you simply don't just do it on a whim. Therefore if you adopt it means you can guarantee that you are available and well enough off to ensure the well being of your children. This is however the opposite of my impression of Vaarsuvius as someone who is not physically (or emotionally I guess) available for his family. Two opposites.

I don't know if it is done this way on purpose, but I like to think it is.

[Riftwolf]

I imagine we'd all be rooting for Inky in that. I mean we'd all be screaming: "No, you can do better, Inky. You can do better."

My initial thoughts on this were 'V treats marriage like something that gives a circumstance bonus to Concentration checks', but then I thought 'hang on, we don't know. We haven't seen the start of the relationship and don't know who V was before their INT ruled their heart. They could've genuinely been in love at some point'

[Fyraltari]

Apparently it would involved years of soul-searching and hesitation. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0223.html)

Edit:

My initial thoughts on this were 'V treats marriage like something that gives a circumstance bonus to Concentration checks', but then I thought 'hang on, we don't know. We haven't seen the start of the relationship and don't know who V was before their INT ruled their heart. They could've genuinely been in love at some point'

V has always been in love with Inky. It just so happens that V was also in love with power.

[fuschiawarrior]

V wanted arcane power more than they loved Inky and the children. I read some comics and remembered that the children were 26 years old and V left for six years.

[Riftwolf]

V has always been in love with Inky. It just so happens that V was also in love with power.

We don't know if that's how it started out though. To put it another way; Scrooge wasn't always a miser, and just because he started his story a miser doesn't mean he always was. I think a short story showing V as someone in love who makes mistakes in priorities would be a better story than 'V loved power more than anyone else'.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think a short story showing V as someone in love who makes mistakes in priorities would be a better story than 'V loved power more than anyone else'. Guessing that it's too much effort to write. (Or, rather, too much effort to write well)

[Potatopeelerkin]

Guessing that it's too much effort to write. (Or, rather, too much effort to write well)

It's a bit extraneous for the main comics, but if Rich did it in a bonus story I don't see why it would be less worth it than, say, a comic about Kazumi and Daigo working together to help out a ghost, further characterisation for Therkla, or how Lien got her water-breathing ring (all of which were written very well).

[Ionathus]

It's a bit extraneous for the main comics, but if Rich did it in a bonus story I don't see why it would be less worth it than, say, a comic about Kazumi and Daigo working together to help out a ghost, further characterisation for Therkla, or how Lien got her water-breathing ring (all of which were written very well).

Agreed. A V prequel would almost certainly be "worth it", and written well! I think it's really just a matter of whether Rich personally thinks it's "worth it," and while I don't immediately get that feeling, I wouldn't 100% rule it out either.

[Lex]

As it was said, it would make for a bittersweet story, and as such I'd like to read it only as a part of anarc when Varsuviuus is reunited with his family. The problem is, I'm not I wznt this to happen. On one hand, I'm a total sucker for happy endings, on the other I think the familicide was too big of a crime to not cost him something at a personal level, namely his family.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's a bit extraneous for the main comics, but if Rich did it in a bonus story I don't see why it would be less worth it than, say, a comic about Characters who have had very little screen time? :smallconfused: V has had ample screen time.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I don't know if this has already been discussed in print comics, and it's unlikely to ever be discussed at this point in the main comic. But I was wondering if Rich ever did another bout of short stories, whether this would be one other people would like to see? Even though we know how it ends so it'll be bittersweet, I thought it'd be good to see a different angle on V rather than stuffy logic.

So "How I Met Your Other Parent"?

[Jasdoif]

We don't know if that's how it started out though. To put it another way; Scrooge wasn't always a miser, and just because he started his story a miser doesn't mean he always was. I think a short story showing V as someone in love who makes mistakes in priorities would be a better story than 'V loved power more than anyone else'.Hmm. It could be do-able, yes....butter has an obvious connection to baking, and is also a material component for the grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm) spell; so they could have met in line seeking the same item....And as grease is a conjuration spell, it would set the timeframe in Vaarsuvius' apprenticeship, before the decision of specialization. Admittedly it would a bit of "adjustment" to Fozziwig's old rubber chicken factory to make butter appropriate....

[tawnyterror]

I would definitely be interested just to see the full context of the situation and how V & Inky treated eachother in the past, because I can not imagine that Inky would have chosen to marry V if they have always been this way.

Perhaps the wizard has always been reclusive and bad at communication but I'm sure that in the past it was less severe and manageable enough so that Inkyrius could have looked over those flaws and appreciated other aspects of them.
And of course I am sure that Vaarsuvius had (and still has) affection for Inky to an extent because of how they fondly described their courtship and the way they've dealt with the divorce, believing that Inkyrius + the children are safer and better off without them (but still attached enough to solemnly look at pictures of their ex when alone)

I do believe V becoming particularly avoidant and neglectful was a development that worsened over time throughout their magical teachings and apprenticeship(fueled by their increasing lust for arcane power), and that their downfall throughout the comic had already been going on for a long time in recent years before joining the order and was simply jacked up to hell by their exposure to danger and rapidly increasing power.

Which is why I believe V likely had far more appeal to Inkyrius during their courtship.. not yet on the path to becoming 'far gone' and were more capable of appreciating simple aspects of life ,
inkyrius was probably happy with the relationship in their first years but became lonely and frustrated over time because of their once-beloved mates sudden negligence and frequent leavings..
Its always interested to me that in their 'reunion' scene Inkyrius isn't actually upset about the 'evil' factor as much as they are upset about V having done this without letting their mate have a say, was willing to adjust to it as long as V stayed to explain everything and talk things out with them(instead of say, threatening them and then teleporting away in a way that illustrates a culmination of all of their wrongs towards inky over the years)
Inkyrius clearly values communication/togetherness above all, but V was not willing to listen to them and give them this care when in that state(the last straw) and is now unable to fix this error because of the stakes of the world, It's a very sad product of circumstance.

[Darth Paul]

As it was said, it would make for a bittersweet story, and as such I'd like to read it only as a part of anarc when Varsuviuus is reunited with his family. The problem is, I'm not I wznt this to happen. On one hand, I'm a total sucker for happy endings, on the other I think the familicide was too big of a crime to not cost him something at a personal level, namely his family.

Would it be any more bittersweet than the story of a goblin cleric who loses his whole family except for his little brother, whom he eventually murders to further his quest for revenge against the people who killed the rest of his family- then discovers it was a needless murder that only cements him as the servant of an insane lich? And there's precious little "sweet" in that story, yet it's still well worth the read.

[Lex]

Would it be any more bittersweet than the story of a goblin cleric who loses his whole family except for his little brother, whom he eventually murders to further his quest for revenge against the people who killed the rest of his family- then discovers it was a needless murder that only cements him as the servant of an insane lich? And there's precious little "sweet" in that story, yet it's still well worth the read.
Well, Start of Darkness is a great book, strongly recommended to all OotS fans. The Vaarsuvius x Inkyrius story wouldn't be nowhere near as bitter, but to me the main difference is that while a lot of bad things happen in SoD, it's a prequel of a story we know will have an happy ending, so after I read it I'm still left with hope, while in Vaarsuvius case any happiness would be tempered by the fact that we know his relationship isn't going to and well. And while it's true that the goblin cleric is very likely one if the character who won't get an happy ending...he us a villain, and it's far easier for me to accept bad things happening to villains that to protagonists.

[Precure]

Would it be any more bittersweet than the story of a goblin cleric who loses his whole family except for his little brother, whom he eventually murders to further his quest for revenge against the people who killed the rest of his family- then discovers it was a needless murder that only cements him as the servant of an insane lich? And there's precious little "sweet" in that story, yet it's still well worth the read.

SoD is tragic more than bittersweet.

[Emanick]

SoD is tragic more than bittersweet.

Yeah, there's not much sweetness in it. Certainly very little by the end.

[faustin]

I wonder if there is a way for Vaarsuvius and Sabine ending together, in a weird sort of companionship.
Just having Sabine (futilely) trying to "get some" from V once a while would be worth it.

[KorvinStarmast]

I wonder if there is a way Vaarsuvius and Sabine end together, in a weird sort of companionship.
Just having Sabine (futilely) trying to "get some" from V once a while would be worth it. Hmm, Roy's love interest is an outsider. I'd have never come up with this on my own, but as I think through your idea I do get a kind of 'odd couple' vibe from it.
Whether or not he'd like to do this, I think Rich has the writing chops to make it work and to make it funny.

[Emanick]

I wonder if there is a way Vaarsuvius and Sabine end together, in a weird sort of companionship.
Just having Sabine (futilely) trying to "get some" from V once a while would be worth it.

Sabine trying to get with V and failing sounds hilarious and I am all for it.

[Riftwolf]

Sabine trying to get with V and failing sounds hilarious and I am all for it.

From what I remember, they do seem to have a more cordial relationship than other Linear/Stick members. However, I would ask you take your Crack Pairing out of my Request for Canonisation thread :b

[DataNinja]

From what I remember, they do seem to have a more cordial relationship than other Linear/Stick members.
Granted, part of that recollection was probably from 385 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html), where Sabine was disguised (so V had no idea), and also very, very, very drunk so probably couldn't really even see V properly. :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

What do you mean? Sabine had no trouble seeing all three of V.

[Precure]

Can't she just visit Nale though?

[Kantaki]

Can't she just visit Nale though?

Even assuming Sabine could just go wherever Nale ended up*, it's the Lower Planes.
Unfriendly visits only.

*Unless he's on her native plane or under her bosses' care- and even then it's probably not easy -things could get very complicated.
The bureaucracy involved is literally hellish.:smallbiggrin:

[Potatopeelerkin]

Characters who have had very little screen time? :smallconfused: V has had ample screen time.

Inkyrius and their kids haven't, though.

[faustin]

Even assuming Sabine could just go wherever Nale ended up*, it's the Lower Planes.
Unfriendly visits only.

*Unless he's on her native plane or under her bosses' care- and even then it's probably not easy -things could get very complicated.
The bureaucracy involved is literally hellish.:smallbiggrin:

There is also the issue Nale's soul could have become a lemure at this point, losing his memories and sapience.

[Kantaki]

There is also the issue Nale's soul could have become a lemure at this point, losing his memories and sapience.

That's possible too.
I'm working off what we've seen of the good afterlifes though.
With the gradual breakdown into a alignment battery for the gods*.
The evil ones are probably pretty much the same, just unpleasant.

*Great. Now I remember that OotS's afterlifes are basically digestive tracts.:smallyuk:

[Riftwolf]

*Great. Now I remember that OotS's afterlifes are basically digestive tracts.:smallyuk:

Isn't there a Chaotic Evil afterlife that's literally a digestive tract? I've vague recollections but can't pin it to a gaming system.

[Rogar Demonblud]

*Great. Now I remember that OotS's afterlifes are basically digestive tracts.
That's a standard thing in D&D, just not often mentioned.

[Starlit Dragon]

Isn't there a Chaotic Evil afterlife that's literally a digestive tract? I've vague recollections but can't pin it to a gaming system.

There's probably a layer of the Abyss like that, but I can't think of any specific afterlives

[Jasdoif]

Isn't there a Chaotic Evil afterlife that's literally a digestive tract? I've vague recollections but can't pin it to a gaming system.There probably is; but that sounds a lot like Malbolge, one of the Nine Hells (thus Lawful Evil).

[hroþila]

There is also the issue Nale's soul could have become a lemure at this point, losing his memories and sapience.
I don't think there's any indication of how fast the process is, but I would assume that can't happen at least until after the point where a person can no longer be resurrected (so like a century?).

[Goblin_Priest]

Yeah, there's not much sweetness in it. Certainly very little by the end.


SoD is tragic more than bittersweet.


Well, Start of Darkness is a great book, strongly recommended to all OotS fans. The Vaarsuvius x Inkyrius story wouldn't be nowhere near as bitter, but to me the main difference is that while a lot of bad things happen in SoD, it's a prequel of a story we know will have an happy ending, so after I read it I'm still left with hope, while in Vaarsuvius case any happiness would be tempered by the fact that we know his relationship isn't going to and well. And while it's true that the goblin cleric is very likely one if the character who won't get an happy ending...he us a villain, and it's far easier for me to accept bad things happening to villains that to protagonists.

What? How does SoD have a happy ending? How does it have any sweetness?

SoD is definately tragic. There's no sweetness for bittersweetness. And it's not really as much of a prequel than a very long prologue. Nothing really gets resolved or achieved, by the end, it just sets the pieces in place for what comes next, in the main comic.

[Lex]

When I talked about happy ending I was referring to the main comic.

[crayzz]

But I think we both know that this? This thing that you've become? This is what you have always really wanted. More than you ever wanted me. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)

However they met, their earlier relationship went badly enough for Inky to build up some resentment. Whether V was always like that or if that trait crept in slowly enough for Inky to put up with it until the breaking point is an interesting question, though.

I always assumed their early relationship was like Roy's parents. V seems single-mindedly selfish, so while they were focused on Inky, things were wonderful, but they were only going to remain focused for so long.

[KorvinStarmast]

When I talked about happy ending I was referring to the main comic. When I talk about the happy ending, the conversation usually goes more like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loKRoESH0LQ) (it was on broadcast TV, so it's light hearted and SFW)

[faustin]

I don't think there's any indication of how fast the process is, but I would assume that can't happen at least until after the point where a person can no longer be resurrected (so like a century?).

In Nale´s case, resurrection was never an option thanks to Laurin.

[Kantaki]

In Nale´s case, resurrection was never an option thanks to Laurin.

I mean, True Resurrection might or might not exist and so might clerics able and willing to cast it, but even if not someone might theoretically gather up all the dust to attempt a Resurrection. It would just need a lot of time and patience.

Silly images of Sabine combing the desert aside, I doubt that wether raising someone is possible or not has no influence on how fast their personality deteriorated while the soul integrates with its final destination.

The time limit being the time until the spell can't differentiate the target soul from its surroundings and/or restore the personality anymore kinda makes sense though.

Maybe it could theoretically still bring something back, it the soul were to comprehend the offer, but it wouldn't be recognisable as the person in question. Call it a safety feature maybe.
Something that was added after raising some important dude went very, very wrong.

[KorvinStarmast]

That's a standard thing in D&D, just not often mentioned.
That might be because the afterlife in most D&D, and AD&D, editions is a gamification of Maslow's self-actualization concept. :smallwink:

[Emanick]

I mean, True Resurrection might or might not exist and so might clerics able and willing to cast it, but even if not someone might theoretically gather up all the dust to attempt a Resurrection. It would just need a lot of time and patience.

Haley seems to think True Resurrection exists (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0579.html) (panel 5), but it's true that there may not be any clerics able and willing to cast. Rich is certainly on record as saying he prefers for it not to be available to anyone, so I think we can assume that nobody is going to be able to get ahold of a cleric who True Resurrects Nale.

That said, with the right divinations, you could probably locate some of the dust from Nale's body for a regular Resurrection spell. It won't happen, but in theory, it likely could.

[CriticalFailure]

Pretty sure the only SOD character likely to get a happy ending is the Monster in the Dark.

Also Roy, of you count them as a SOD character.

[KorvinStarmast]

Pretty sure the only SOD character likely to get a happy ending is the Monster in the Dark. A nice big pot of stew, that refills each dawn.

[Shirow]

I always assumed their early relationship was like Roy's parents. V seems single-mindedly selfish, so while they were focused on Inky, things were wonderful, but they were only going to remain focused for so long.

Same here.

While I am really rooting for the Belkar/V thing to happen on one hand, if Belkar really has to die and V learns her(?) lesson gets her(?) comeuppance, i.e. a permanent Mage Disjunction Backlash (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm) to the face, V and Inky could still end up caring for each other in their later years. Idk. Inky can probably do better.

I hadn't noticed that the Familicide Spell had also broken V's Family btw, that's pure gold. 👌