What is your favorite gestalt build?

[liquidformat]

Hi all, I thought it would be fun to see what people's favorite gestalt build is, this doesn't have to be the most powerful just the one you have liked the most while playing even if it isn't optimal.

For me I was a big fan of my druid 20//barbarian 3/ranger 5/Fist of the Forest 2/primeval 10 he was a big bruiser that used the druid side for buffing mostly then go and knock head.

edit: in this case lets say no PRCs on both sides at the same time, also no PRCs or feats that advance full casting of two classes, all first party material allowed, monster RHD and LA only goes on one side of the Gestalt.

[A.A.King]

It depends on the gestalt rules you're playing with. The gestalt rules suggest disallowing prestige classes that combine multiple classes together but it is all very vague and depends on the game. Mystic Theurge seems like an obvious no-no but does giving a few sneak attack die really count as Arcane Trickster "progressing" rogue? Also, are you allowed to gestalt prestige classes or does 1 side have always be a base class? My favourite depends on those kind of rules because if you are allowed to go a little bit more crazy than more simple choices lose their power and their appeal.

In a game that is very strict on what you can do with prestige classes I really like the Bard // Paladin of Freedom combo.
Take the variant from the SRD that trades away Bardic Knowledge and the Inspire songs for some druid features (most importantly Wild Empathy and an Animal Companion). This allows you to take the Devoted Tracker feat and basically have a gestalt Special Mount//Animal Companion to do the fighting for you.

Next, take the From Smite to Song feat to get back Inspire Courage (using Smite Evil uses). Then at level 6 you take the Harmonious Knight substitution level to get Inspire Competence back and you use the Music of Creation ACF from Eberron to trade Suggestion for Song of the Heart (which you now qualify for because Paladin gave you Inspire Competence). Finally at level 9 you take the last Harmonious Knight substitution level to also get back Inspire Greatness and hey presto, you've got your best bard songs back.

Basically, you're the support act and your mount does the real fighting. You've got Full BAB, all good saves, d10 HD and 6 + Int Skill points as well as bard casting and paladin casting.
If you are allowed to go a little crazy with Prestige classes (allowed to gestalt prestige classes and the only limit is on double casting prestige classes) then I like my Druid // Bard "Nightingale" build
01. Druid 1 // Bard 1
02. Druid 2 // Bard 2
03. Druid 3 // Bard 3
04. Druid 4 // Bard 4
05. Druid 5 // Bard 5
06. Master of Many Forms 1 // Divine Prankster 1
07. Nature's Warrior 1 // Divine Prankster 2
08. Nature's Warrior 2 // Bard 6
09. Nature's Warrior 3 // Divine Prankster 3
10. Master of Many Forms 2 // Divine Prankster 4

After that, finish out Master of Many Forms, Divine Prankster & Nature's Warrior and go to Bard 10 on the right side once Divine Prankster is finished. This does Assumes the book suggested adaption of Divine Prankster from gnome based to follower of a generic trickster god is in play.
This gives you the Inspire Courage of a 20th level bard, the casting of a 19th level druid (you lose 1 level with Nature's Warrior 5) 20 HD for Wild Shape and a lot of of forms you can take.

You're a trickster spirit, a fey. You can be almost anything and probably would do well in melee, though I like to that most of the time you're sitting on the shoulder of somebody else Wild Shaped into the form of a bird while you summon beasts to the battlefield and buff them with Inspire Courage

[AvatarVecna]

Fighter//Monk. Full BAB, d10 HD, bonus feats, and ACF options are a serious upgrade for a monk that makes it a lot more viable.

Ranger//Scout, if the DM is cool and lets Swift Hunter work. It's a very straightforward build that has very dependable damage and skills, and maybe even spells too if you didn't skip them for more feats.

Factotum//Wizard that takes a lot of Font Of Inspiration. It's essentially Wizard++ in gestalt.

[Rebel7284]

A big fan of
Wizard 5/Spelldancer 1/Swiftblade 10/x4
//
Factotum 6/Wizard 1/Factotum 2/Wizard 1/etc.

Never got to play this, but it looks so fun!

[Gnaeus]

I’m a big fan of gestalt for tier balance, so like tier 1-3 might play as normal, tier 4-5 get to gestalt with a tier 5 class kind of thing.

With that in mind, I’m a big fan of Marshal//Truenamer
It’s a great party face. Great at knowledges. Actually pretty good at all skills between the truenamer skill utterance and Cha to stat.
It’s a competent melee, with heavy armor and shield, auras, and knowledge devotion maxing out most of the time.
It’s a surprisingly decent caster. Adding Cha to truespeak checks should be a +3 at first level but scaling bonus. Truenamers get some good stuff, just not enough to get them through the day as a primary caster. They make decent healers. And it’s pretty good at buffing allies too.

It’s a good example of 2 complementary low tiers that I would be pretty happy to play at most tables even with high tier characters in play. (Paradoxically it is also good in high op RAW games. Few T1 abuses compare well with RAW diplomancy. And it’s really good at diplomancy.)

For less of a 2 class gestalt and more of a build, I would abandon Marshal after a few levels for classes like warlock, zhentarim fighter, samurai and exemplar to take advantage of double Cha +truenaming skill bonuses.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is for really high op games. Otherwise, I tone it down. A LOT. They're all still powerful and versatile (both of which I like), but they're watered-down versions.

I like being able to do well in pretty much everything. Melee, ranged, spells, powers, skillmonkey out the wazoo. Bonus points for having multiple instances of myself.

Dvati factotum dip/monk dip/initiator dips/totemist dip/fiend of possession/illithid savant 3/legacy champion (if there's room) // shaper psion/thrallherd dip/constructor (skipping the 10th level, of course)/anarchic initiate*

Have a number of of my thralls and believers be StP erudites and spend some resources so I can learn all of their spells and powers known (which include a wide variety of arcane-spells-as-powers and divine-spells-as-arcane-spells-as-powers).

Take Human Blood or Human Heritage so I qualify for Able Learner, and focus on lots of Int for ALL the skills, even the ones that are rare or difficult to get. Otherworldly so I can get into fiend of possession and take over bodies suitable for both stealth and heavy combat without putting myself at risk. Linked Power and Metapower (Linked Power + synchronicity) so I can break the action economy over my knee and take extra actions without letting the dvati spellcaster weaknesses mess up my turns. Get lots of bonus feats from items and locations I can swap around with the DCFS, and use those feats to augment my WBL to augment my other abilities (Ancestral Relic, Landlord, Item Familiar, Mercantile Background, etc). Illithid savant gets me the ability to learn spells and powers like the spell-to-power erudite but without taking erudite levels.

If I can get multiple bodies hiveminded together without going dvati, I'd definitely do that, but that's mostly for super high op games (that is, those like what Emperor Tippy would run). It's doable with a bit of effort, but it's a bit much for most games. I could also use illithid savant to eat a high level legacy champion to get more illithid savant to get more legacy champion, boosting my effective levels of all my classes sky-high, which means smaller dips (usually, single levels) and more effort put into making things stack together (see: Master Spellthief, etc).





*The exact order and "side" each dip goes on will vary from instance to instance.

[Gruftzwerg]

None...^^
I personally never played gestalt and never really felt the need for it. At one point I had thoughts to make a few training/education sessions in magic and force everyone to gestalt a T1 caster on one side. But that never happened.

Personally I dislike gestalt, because 3.5 can already be game breaking enough without it. And going gestalt is just going to increase the chances for game breaking builds. Imho tables with heavy optimizing players should stay away from gestalt rules due to safety reasons..^^

But that doesn't mean that I am totally against it or wouldn't encourage others to use the gestalt rules.

If you want stronger characters in your campaign but lack the knowledge for optimized builds or even the resources (books) it's a good option.
When you party doesn't have enough players but you want all stereotypical roles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbdFsuh7QEQ) (melee guy, sneaky guy, supporter, magic guy...) to be filled.
And when it comes to adaptations of certain fictional characters from films, series, manga... they can often be easier fitted into gestalt rules. I often think about how certain fictional character can be adapted into 3.5. A simple approach is gestalt with one martial side and one caster side. This way you can build a variety of fun and flavorful gishes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

None...^^
I personally never played gestalt and never really felt the need for it. At one point I had thoughts to make a few training/education sessions in magic and force everyone to gestalt a T1 caster on one side. But that never happened.

Personally I dislike gestalt, because 3.5 can already be game breaking enough without it. And going gestalt is just going to increase the chances for game breaking builds. Imho tables with heavy optimizing players should stay away from gestalt rules due to safety reasons..^^

But that doesn't mean that I am totally against it or wouldn't encourage others to use the gestalt rules.

If you want stronger characters in your campaign but lack the knowledge for optimized builds or even the resources (books) it's a good option.
When you party doesn't have enough players but you want all stereotypical roles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbdFsuh7QEQ) (melee guy, sneaky guy, supporter, magic guy...) to be filled.
And when it comes to adaptations of certain fictional characters from films, series, manga... they can often be easier fitted into gestalt rules. I often think about how certain fictional character can be adapted into 3.5. A simple approach is gestalt with one martial side and one caster side. This way you can build a variety of fun and flavorful gishes.Most of the broken stuff in 3e is caster-related. While gestalt can make casters a bit more powerful, they're still typically reined in by action economy, so the boost usually isn't THAT much.

However, gestalt makes mundanes MUCH more viable, which actually helps close the gaps a bit.

In other words, gestalt is good for casters, but it's GREAT for noncasters.

[AvatarVecna]

Most of the broken stuff in 3e is caster-related. While gestalt can make casters a bit more powerful, they're still typically reined in by action economy, so the boost usually isn't THAT much.

However, gestalt makes mundanes MUCH more viable, which actually helps close the gaps a bit.

In other words, gestalt is good for casters, but it's GREAT for noncasters.

Agreed. If the normal party is wizard, cleric, rogue, and fighter, and you slap a sorcerer gestalt on all four of them...well the wizard and cleric will certainly appreciate the extra casting, but it's not exactly bumping them up a tier, it just means they've got a bit more magical stamina. But the rogue and fighter have gone from chump sidekicks to merely slightly lesser heroes in their own right. I think caster//caster (especially with different lists) is still a much stronger gestalt in actual play than a lot of people give it credit for in theorycrafting, but I can at least acknowledge that it's not nearly the same adjustment in power as noncasters will get from gestalting into caster.

[Gruftzwerg]

Most of the broken stuff in 3e is caster-related. While gestalt can make casters a bit more powerful, they're still typically reined in by action economy, so the boost usually isn't THAT much.

However, gestalt makes mundanes MUCH more viable, which actually helps close the gaps a bit.

In other words, gestalt is good for casters, but it's GREAT for noncasters.

While I agree with your arguments I still see the problem of game breaking stuff. Gestalt is nice if you want to slim down a certain build idea, that would otherwise stack your class levels unnecessary into the epic levels. But it is bad if it is used as "general" optimization tool. We can already have mundane builds who can one-shot multiple enemies every turn (or the entire encounter in a single turn) without gestalt. So there is no need to add gestalt for optimization purposes imho. I would advice to use it for "cool build ideas" that you want to play/realize and not for "stronger uber builds".

[liquidformat]

While I agree with your arguments I still see the problem of game breaking stuff. Gestalt is nice if you want to slim down a certain build idea, that would otherwise stack your class levels unnecessary into the epic levels. But it is bad if it is used as "general" optimization tool. We can already have mundane builds who can one-shot multiple enemies every turn (or the entire encounter in a single turn) without gestalt. So there is no need to add gestalt for optimization purposes imho. I would advice to use it for "cool build ideas" that you want to play/realize and not for "stronger uber builds".

From what I have seen in play and I have played in quite a few gestalt games, gestalt is almost never used to optimize but to make things more interesting or to enhance lower tier classes. Also as has been pointed out a lot of monsters even though they might seem cool suck when compared with normal classes often falling behind even tier 4 and 5 classes. Gestalt can do a lot to let you play for example a vampire (LA 8) and not be completely useless, after all being a level 1 character isn't at all reasonable in a group of level 9 characters, literally everything will one shot you and you have no way of meaningfully doing anything. However, you toss that into one side of your gestalt and all of a sudden you don't completely suck (well you do but now you only suck blood).

[Buddy76]

I personally like:

Mystic Ranger 5/ Stalker of Kharash 4/ Mystic Ranger 11 // Scout 1/ Totemist 8/ Umbral Disciple 3/ Scout 2/ Totemist 6

I had to be a human with 2 flaws because the build is quite feat intensive. As long as you keep 3 or more of essentia invested in Embrace the Shadow, you can always hide in plain sight (stalker of kharash). I also took Able Learner, Swift Hunter and Sword of the Arcane Order.

With full BAB + Combat Style (archery) and Swift Hunter you're a good volley archer who can also fight in melee (Miss chance and the totemist's standart array of natural attacks) while also being a skill monkey (with trapfinding, track and hide in plain sight) and you're also a descent caster with 5th level spells, lots of spells per day (at CL 20) and you can choose from the Mystic Ranger and Wizard lists.

You can also use your meldshaping for additional flexibility.

[Rijan_Sai]

My two personal favorites, (though they haven't reached the "Peak-of-Power" yet.)
*Note that these both have certain favorable DM rulings; see text*

1) Binder 20//Warlock 5/Escalation Mage 6/Hellfire Warlock 3/Legacy Champion 6
>Favorable Ruling: Legacy Champion continues Hellfire Blast progression.

2) Dragonfire Adept 20//Totemist 2/Incarnate 5/Necrocarnate 13
>Favorable Ruling: Approved flaw - Chicken Infested


Neither one strictly needs the FR's, but work better with them...
("1" could operate just fine, probably use LC to advance Warlock instead of HfW; "2" could work, but without Chicken Infested would probably go Totemist 20 instead...)

Two others that I liked were
3)Wilder 7/Anarchic Initiate 1/Wilder +18//Bard 9/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8
Using the Educated Wilder (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) ACF

4) Half-Dragon (Black) War Troll 12/Crusader 8//Duskblade 5/Sandshaper 2/Duskblade +8/Sandshaper +5
STRICTLY NPC ONLY (thus, LA is more or less irrelevant, as is the fact that he is nearly immune to HP damage...)
Special Note: Wandering Merchant/(Ironically)Nearly Pacifist (will defend himself and his shop as needed, though!)

[Thurbane]

I've never actually played gestalt, but I'd love to try out a Beguiler//Warblade of some kind. I love Int based characters.

[lylsyly]

Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8///Paladin 2/Battle Sorcerer 18

Charisma Synergy between all the classes / Decent Melee (for being stuck with light armor) / Good Utility. I've done it with both Inspire Courage and Inspire Awe.

[Crake]

A gestalt build I really enjoyed making for a trio of NPCs in my setting was binder 5/ur-priest 2/Tenebrous apostate 5//Succubus HD 6/Fiend of X 6, with each succubus being a different fiend of X, one corruption, one blasphemy, and one possession.

Since it was an NPC the LA wasn't really an issue, since it's only used for players, but if you wanted to extend the build for a player, you could go Binder 5/ur-priest 2/Tenebrous Apostate 5/ur-priest 4/Binder 2//Succubus Savage Progression 12/Fiend of X 6 for a level 18 build with full ur-priest casting, and level 12 binding (14 if you have the improved binding feat).

[Maat Mons]

I've said this before, but I've always wanted to try out the 19th-level Cleaving Charge ability of Streetfighter Barbarian, and the only way I can figure out to put 19 levels into Barbarian and still have a character I'd enjoy playing is to do it in a gestalt game.

I'd kind of like to play Erudite gestalted with some spontaneous caster or another. I don't really like the whole rigmarole with preparing spells. But spontaneous casters don't have as much flexibility as I'd like. Erudite is sort of a solution to these problems, but it has so few UPpD, and there are quite a few bread-and-butter powers I'd like to always have. Gestaling a spontaneous caster with Erudite would let me use my spells known for the things I know I'll always want, which frees up my UPpD for more situational things, if the mood strikes me.

[Zombulian]

Archivist//Truenamer always seemed like a natural gestalt to
me. Maybe put Fiendbinder on the Archivist side or something.

[Buddy76]

I agree, always wanted to try something like that. Heck, if the DM allowed dual advancement prcs, some Tenebrous Apostate and/or divine Anima Mage would also be pretty sweet.

[Darg]

Lately I've wanted to do a soulknife//bloodstorm blade 2 gestalt. Thunderous throw + the large thrown range increment for mindblade + bladewind/ranged dual strike cleave seems like it could be fun in combat.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Lately I've wanted to do a soulknife//bloodstorm blade 2 gestalt. Thunderous throw + the large thrown range increment for mindblade + bladewind/ranged dual strike cleave seems like it could be fun in combat.Add some legacy champion for a custom version of the the Mau-Jehe (Weapons of Legacy p115), with all the penalties being for caster levels and manifester levels you don't have? Because WoL penalties suck. That, or ask the DM to houserule the stupid legacy penalties out (or find a way to take the Loyalty's Reward feat to build a feat that allows you to ignore said penalties).

Legacy champion gives you some decent boosts to your mind blade, while boosting another class at the same time. It's almost like a triple-gestalt.

[Raven777]

Made a Paladin of Vengeance // Ranger archer in PF I really liked. The two classes synergize really well thematically. Alas, game didn't go beyond two sessions and 3rd level.

[Thurbane]

I would also be interested in playing a Dusbkblade//Factotum, again for the Int aspect, but I'm not entirely sure how well these two synergise...

I mean you get full BAB, all good saves, 6 skill points/level with all skills...but the class features? Duskblade casting and channelling; factotum SLAs and inspiration point stuff? I guess at the very least you'd be versatile, but not much of a heavy hitter. I don't think you'd be able to channel SLAs, unfortunately. You'd probably need to spend a fair chunk of your feats on FoI, which would limit the melee feats you could take.

[Azraile]

I never find people wanting to play it x.x

I have thought about rouge/wizard or rouge/cleric

if i wanted to brake the game i would go cleric/druid

using one side for a lot of LA and pretige classses while your rocking prestige classes on the other side all for one main class is a good way to get a really powerfull build too.....

but honestly I like the more balanced way of just using it the right way as a dual class mechanic

[ezekielraiden]

If we're allowed to blend in both Pathfinder rules and 3.5e ones, then my Int-SAD Menhir Druid/Planar Shepherd|Exploiter Wizard/Geomancer/Archmage. Finding the true secrets of life and magic, tied together through ley lines, the dragon gods, and the bones of the earth.

If it has to be just PF, then Synthesist/Ninja (with the Scout archetype). It not only works together mechanically, I have a super cool story for it too.

For just 3.5e, if some franken-building is allowed, I have an idea I really want to play, blending Ruby Knight Vindicator, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Sublime Chord, with high Inspire Courage optimization (including Dragonfire Inspiration and having Battle Dragon blood so it's actually sonic damage. You can make everyone go FUS ROH DAH!)

[SaltyFiend]

It really depends on what you want to do, but for me at any rate, my two favorites are the Fighter/Wizard and Kensai Magus/Wizard.

Fighter Wizard is just. . . well lets say they are the best in a really ugly sort of way. Put them in mithril full-plate, get Arcane Armor Training & Mastery Feats (If you got mythic get M. Arcane Armor Training for that free action) and Armor Specialization (Heavy). If your doing all your math right and split your armor training boons between AAT and AT, getting defense boosters and generally, your AC is as high as the sword and shield fighter, but only short by 3-ish points, and your AC will end up in the high 40's, mid-50's with touch 30 against magic. Thats to say nothing about the slue of buffs you can put on yourself, like Extended Greater Heroism, Extended Tears to Wine, and get spell-storing to throw an Extended Shield or Mirror Image on too the moment you get targeted.

Easily found the fighter/wizard, with only having a 5% ASF chance in mithril heavy armor, being one of the most overwhelming and harder characters for a GM to actually prep against and regularly just wiped the floor with most enemy types.

Kensai Magus/Wizard is more of the fluff kind of character that goes in the same direction as the Fighter/Wizard, with the exception that you utilize skill rather than the power of the Fighter/Wizard. With the ability to nova frequently and a combination of greater invisibility in conjunction with your higher level class features from Kensai and Sense Vitals, you can be a pretty nasty precision attacker and you have very good AC, since most of its on your touch AC as well. The problem with them is initially staying power in the fight, but like all casters, the Kensai Magus/Wizard gets better with levels.

[Maat Mons]

For a 3.5 game, these builds seem like they'd be fun to try.

Rage Cleric 20
//
Fighter 20
Full Cleric casting (except domains). Full Barbarian Rage. A crapton of bonus feats. And big numbers. What's not to like? Just make sure to get a Torque of Lucid Raging.

Wizard 20
//
Warblade 5 / Revenant Blade 5 / Eternal Blade 10
A very elf-y elf indeed.

Sorcerer 5 / Green Star Adept 10 / Sorcerer PrC 5
//
Moon-Warded Ranger 11 / Sorcerer +5 / Paladin 2 / something 2
Not in that order. This gives full Sorcerer 20 casting. It also gives all Construct immunities, with the exception of mind-affecting, via Green Star Adept. Moon-Warded Ranger gives Immunity to harmful mind-affecting effects, while still allowing you to benefit from helpful mind-affecting effects. And you can take the Ascetic Mage feat to switch the Wis-to-AC in light/no armor given by Moon-Warded Ranger over to Cha instead.



For a Pathfinder game, this build seems like it would be fun to try.

Sage Sorcerer 20
//
Arcanist 20
50 spells known from Sorcerer. And then 34 spells you can pick anew each day from Arcanist. Both casting off Int.

[Ramza00]

edit: in this case lets say no PRCs on both sides at the same time, also no PRCs or feats that advance full casting of two classes, all first party material allowed, monster RHD and LA only goes on one side of the Gestalt.

Does not fit your rules exactly but I love Path of War prestige classes (3rd Party PF, ToB for PF) for they advance your IL and with Path of War at IL 4, 6, 8, 10, etc you can trade up maneuvers to a higher level.

Thus you get a scaling ability of 2 high level maneuvers on one side of the gestalt (what the prestige class gives you ever even levels of prc which is often odd IL, and on even IL levels you swap a maneuver, this requires practiced initiator trait usually), plus advance the IL of secondary PoW classes even if they are 1, 2, 3 ILs behind.

And the other side you can use for whatever you want. Long lasting cleric / oracle buffs, skill monkey, caster, akashic, the sky is the limit!

[A.A.King]

I was just messing around a bit, and I got something else I quite like. It's a high power combo, and it assumes you are allowed to use "theurge" classes but

Warlock 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 5 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / Tenebrous Apostate 5 // Binder 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Anima Mage 10 / Eldritch Theurge 5

You end with Eldritch Blast/Invocations of a 18th LV Warlock, spellcasting of a 19th LV Sorcerer and a 10th LV Ur-Priest (Double Nines) and binding of a 15th LV Binder (but access to 8th level vestiges thanks to the Improved Binding Feat).

Being a 15th level binder means you get access to three vestiges at the same time. Two of these slots are taken up by Tenebrous and Naberius and you have a free one depending on the day. Tenebrous is always bound to you thanks to Tenebrous Apostate, you could swap out Naberius for something else if you want but that would mean you couldn't spam Hellfire blast as easily as you can with him bound

With 5 levels in Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple you can apply eldritch eldritch essence invocation to both arcane and divine spells.

It's all surprisingly thematic as well, gaining sorcerer/warlock powers from the demon lord Orcus while gaining divine powers from his dead god alter-ego Tenebrous who you have bound to yourself through strange magic that you can also use to bind other powerful beings to you.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who thought of this, but in a high power gestalt game where you're allowed tricks like theurge classes and fast-progression classes like Ur-Priest this master of many magics sound like a lot of fun.

[Tytalus]

Also, are you allowed to gestalt prestige classes or does 1 side have always be a base class?

The rules are clear on that one: "A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level."

[SnugUndies]

The one gestalt character I put a lot of work into designing was a Sorcerer/Abjurant Champion/Incantatrix on one side and a ton of classes that add Charisma to different stats on the other side. That included Paladin for Saves, Hexblade for Saves (again) against spells and spell-likes, Marshal for Initiative, Monk and Risen Martyr both for AC. Oh yeah, and the Ruby Rose Knight ACF makes you immune to Charisma damage/drain, so that should stay pretty secure.

At the end of the day it was just a glorified gish, though. No reason you couldn't do that with a regular character.

[JNAProductions]

The rules are clear on that one: "A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level."

Many DMs don’t enforce that. It’ll vary table to table, and even game to game.

[vasilidor]

I had a lot of fun with a rogue/warlock that went epic in 3.5.
I have an idea for a fighter (coiled blade/mymadon)/Elementalist or prodigy shield master for pathfinder. It would be very complicated to play though, lots of extra abilities to juggle. the coiled blade and mymadon are compatible archetypes for the fighter that use 2 separate 3rd party rule systems and then I would be bringing in yet another with the inclusion of either the elementalist or the prodigy.
or just go Incanter/Conscript. that would be the ultimate "can do anything but not everything" character.
If I was to do pathfinder gestalt without 3rd party material, I think I would go Slayer/Witch. Make everyone take naps.

[Skyrender]

I've only played a few gestalt games (2 or 3, depending on how you view 1 or 2 of them), but my current favorite idea is Eberron-specific, and ultimately pretty simple:

Human or half-elf

Dragon Shaman 20\\Dragonfire Adept 15/Heir of Siberys 2/Dragonfire Adept 16-18

Be careful what totem you pick as a dragon shaman, with an eye toward extra class skills gained, general utility of draconic adaptations, and the frequency you're likely to encounter the energy type associated with your totem (copper and silver are my favorites). Remember: dragons on Eberron have no alignment tendencies, so alignment is wide open, too!

Absolutely take the vigor and senses auras at level 1. Non-negotiable. As your third starting aura, take one of the following: power (melee damage) {PHB 2, p. 13}, or insight (knowledge, decipher script, and spellcraft), or power (SR checks) {Dragon Magic, p. 87}. As your starting draconic invocation, take endure exposure for its ability to immunize your party against your breath weapons for 24 hours. Then head into the dungeon and start spewing death and destruction across the whole battlefield every round.

At level 3, magic insight is at-will detect magic and identify without the material component, all rolled up into one. Your party will worship you for this.

For an ordinary build, I would take able learner, but that feat literally serves no purpose in this build. Instead, entangling exhalation is the must-take feat at level 1.

The level 12 feat is reserved for double draconic aura. No ifs, ands, or butts (you might be breathing fire all over the place, but you shouldn't be smoking!).

You also need to take heroic spirit by level 15 in order to enter Heir of Siberys, but if your table doesn't use action points (many tables don't, even those playing on Eberron), ask your DM whether dragontouched or double draconic aura (or both!) will meet the feat tax. If not, make sure to ask him/her/them/it/other what you can substitute for it, and take that and any requirements for said substitute into account when preparing your build.

Thanks to Heir of Siberys, take breath of Siberys at level 18 for a nice boost to both of your breath weapons. Grab the dragon spirit cincture from MiC, too, if you can swing it, which you should be able to. After all, you're on Eberron! If magic items will be available for purchase on any of the first-party worlds, Eberron is the one where it's most likely to happen!

[Rebel7284]

Another gestalt combination that I think would be a ton of fun would be Dragonfire Adept//Sorcerer/Incantatrix

Persist all the metabreath spells and be way more draconic with stuff like wings of cover and various other utility spells.

[Skyrender]

Another gestalt combination that I think would be a ton of fun would be Dragonfire Adept//Sorcerer/Incantatrix

Persist all the metabreath spells and be way more draconic with stuff like wings of cover and various other utility spells.

Ooh! I like that one, too. Especially as you could take the dragonblood sorcerer substitution levels for levels 1 and 7. The level 4 ability is disappointing, but I suppose it can be situationally useful, if you have a particular spell you're never gonna MM in any fashion, but want to be able to cast exactly 3 times per day (mage armor, anyone?).

[ezekielraiden]

Many DMs don’t enforce that. It’ll vary table to table, and even game to game.

Yeah. I don't even think I've played at a table that enforced that rule, actually.

More common, but far from universal, is "you can't do two double-progression PrCs," especially if it's progressions that intersect. E.g. no Anima Mage on one side and Mystic Theurge on the other so you get 2x arcane spellcasting each level.

A build I really want to try...shall we say, skirts this rule. Bard, Crusader, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Sublime Chord on one side; Cleric, Knight of the Raven, and Ruby Knight Vindicator on the other. Tanky, great support through Cleric and Crusader made even better by Dragonfire Inspiration (possibly turned Sonic by way of Battle Dragon heritage), dual 9ths with something like IL 17 or 18 at max level. It ends up being kind of a mess to set out the specific class level/order, though. But that's because you want to take as few actual Bard, Cleric, and Crusader levels as you can get away with, and because avoiding the "don't take two double-progression classes" thing means layering stuff carefully to avoid overlap. But it looks hella fun, *without* needing to be super cheesy. Especially if there's LA buyoff (or just some free LA) to be a half-dragon. I see it thematically as a mystic knight-captain, leading their allies to glorious victory.

[Geeksthenewsexy]

For games where you can take Prestige classes on both tracks at the same time, my current favorite is:

Paladin ------ || Ninja
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Warlock
Paladin ------ || Crinti Shadow Marauder
Blackguard -- || Crinti Shadow Marauder
Blackguard -- || Crinti Shadow Marauder
Blackguard -- || Crinti Shadow Marauder
Blackguard -- || Crinti Shadow Marauder
Blackguard -- || Avenging Executioner
Bone Knight - || Avenging Executioner
Bone Knight - || Avenging Executioner
Bone Knight - || Avenging Executioner
Bone Knight - || Avenging Executioner
Bone Knight - || Dread Commando
Bone Knight - || Fighter

The progression depicts a steady decline in morality while track two shows a progressively more brutal killer/assassin.

With 9 levels of Paladin before your first Blackguard level, you get a free medium undead minion that cannot be turned, and gets all the bonuses your Fiendish Companion gets: Empathic Link, Improved Evasion, Shared Saving Throws (which is great since your Charisma mod is applied to saves twice), Share Spells, Speak With Blackguard, Blood Bond (+2 to basically everything when it sees you in danger), Spell REsistance 25, +8 HD, +7 NA, +4 Str, and an Int of 9. All because the Fiendish Companion class feature says 'Character Level' and not 'Blackguard Level'. So you basically get a medium undead AND a familiar with all the above-listed abilities with just a 5 level dip in Blackguard.
After that, finishing out the track as a Bone Knight restores or replaces your long-defunct paladin abilities. This includes spellcasting, mount (which is now a skeletal mount, which is badass), lay on hands, charisma mod to saves, etc. Your spellcasting is Lvl 5 Blackguard AND a level 15 Paladin at the end of it. And you get +19/+14/+9/+4 BAB, having only lost a single point. And an unmodified maximum of 178hp isn't anything to sneeze at either.

The second track is where the real magic happens. You start with Ninja because you want more skills (you'll need them due to all the prestige class skill requirements, but there is at least some overlap), and a base Sudden Strike damage to improve upon (why is sudden strike infinitely better in this build than sneak attack, you ask? Don't worry, we'll get there).You need 6 levels of warlock because it is the lowest level cost to get an at-will, usable-every-round teleport effect, ala Flee The Scene. As for why that is vital, the next class is Crinti Shadow Marauder, which you take all 5 levels of (You could go with just 4 levels of Telflammar Shadowlord instead, but it requires 2 more feats, so...meh) because the capstone ability is Shadow Pounce: Any time he uses an ability, spell, or effect with the teleportation descriptor (for example, his shadow jump ability), he may execute a full attack upon completion of the teleportation. Which means now your standard action teleport gets upgraded to a standard action to move AND use a full attack. Interested yet? It gets better!

Following that, you'll take all 5 levels of Avenging Executioner. It increases Sudden Strike as well, and does a few very neat things: First ability is that if you land Sudden Strike, all opponents within 30' become shaken for 5 rounds if they fail the will save. Second level ability lets you demoralize as a move action. Third ability is the money-maker. If someone you attack is already shaken, frightened, or panicked, it triggers your sudden strike. Capstone ability is that if you drop an opponent, everyone within 30' has to make another will save or become frightened for a round. But if they make the will save...they're shaken instead! Rounding out with a level of Dread Commando and fighter advances your Sudden Strike for another +1d6, and grants +1 bab to compensate for the last two levels of bone knight being +0.75 bab, leaving you with a +19 by lvl 20. It also gives an initiative bonus to the party and you a bonus feat.


Pick up a Greater Chausible of Fell Power and you have a 30' Eldritch Blast that does 5d6 from 30'. Add the feats Frightful Presence (Whenever you attack or charge, all opponents within a radius of 30 feet who have fewer levels or Hit Dice than you become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d6 + your Cha modifier), the Frightful Blast Invocation, Flee The Scene for teleporting, and you can move at your base speed, teleport 40', then make a full attack, and make everything within 30' of you will save vs a fear effect 3-4 times. As soon as any of them fail, you get to add your +7d6 sudden strike damage to all your attacks. I highly recommend Your fighter bonus feat be Exotic Weapon: Whip and craft a mighty whip as your Bonecraft weapon (Beating people to death with a whip made of human vertebrae is too damn cool not to anyway, but there is a better reason). Whips are considered ranged weapons. If you picked up Zen Archery, your Wisdom now handles both your Attack Bonus, AND your AC Bonus, AND your spellcasting DCs & Bonus Spells (Whips are considered ranged weapons, and you make a ranged attack roll). If your DM doesn't like the Arms & Equipment Guide for some reason, you can use shuriken or some other thrown weapons with either Quick Draw, or get by with Crystals of Least Returning that would let you use all 4 of your full-attack attacks. Since if you're hitting a shaken, frightened, or panicked person...they'll take +7d6 Sudden Strike damage for... Every. Single. Attack.

Basically become Nightcrawler from X-men. Sprint, BAMF, *Attack*, Sprint, BAMF, *attack*, Sprint, BAMF, *attack*, etc. Oh! Did I mention Flee-The Scene leaves an illusionary doppelganger in your place when you teleport? If 'attacking them from behind while they still think I'm in front of them' doesn't convince your DM to count as flat-footed and thus Sudden-Strikable, I don't know what does.

[Soranar]

For sheer versatility I like spell to power erudite + factotum. Everything keys off intelligence and your factotum chassis is decent.

For something lower in power but still fun a battledancer // urban druid can be hilarious. everything keys off charisma and you can use urban shape to ignore your physical stats altogether.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're going to make a gestalt Warlock, combine it with Enlightened Spirit (CM): Warlock 20// Anything 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Anything 5.

Nothing Enlightened Spirit gets is the same class feature as what Warlock gets, so everything stacks. The EB bonus damage is just additional dice, not an increase in caster level or effective Warlock level. The invocations gained are specific, not a general selection like Warlock gets. Even better, the 5th level bonus shape invocation can be a least, lesser, or greater invocation, one level earlier than you'd get a greater invocation from Warlock.

Those other levels can be something like Wildshape Mystic Ranger 5+5, or 5 of that and then Warshaper and/or Master of Many forms for the last 5.



Wildshape Mystic Ranger is one of the best chassis classes for a passive side on a gestalt character. It gets full BAB, two good saves, decent HD, and six base skill points/level, plus tons of ACF options. With Sword of the Arcane Order (which you can get as a bonus feat with Frostblood Half-Orc) you can even cast 0-5th level Wizard spells. It can turn into combat forms for melee attacks, or tanky forms, or a grappler form, or forms for flying, swimming, burrowing, climbing, hiding, etc. Or use the Deadly Hunter (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) variant for Monk AC and speed bonuses on something like an arcane caster, such as:

Frostblood Desert Half-Orc (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs) (tundras are technically deserts due to lack of precipitation), Wildshape Mystic Ranger 20// Sorcerer + Sorcerer-advancing PrCs 20. Use the Half-Humans and Humanlike Races variant in the sidebar of RoD p150 to count as a Humanoid (Human) instead of as a Humanoid (Orc). This allows you to take Magical Training for a spellbook and the ability to add more Wizard spells to it (per the Rules Compendium on prepared casters). You get Endurance as a bonus feat at 1st level with a caveat that if you would gain it later you can replace the redundant copy with any feat you qualify for, Mystic Ranger delays the Ranger's Endurance bonus feat to 4th level, and Ranger 4 is exactly what you need for Sword of the Arcane Order. So you've got full Sorcerer spellcasting, up to 5th level Mystic Ranger spells, and can prepare and cast 0-5th level Wizard spells in those Ranger slots for added utility and versatility.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: what's your favourite Thread Necromancer Build?