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borg286
2021-01-04, 05:04 PM
Minor Illusion: A Creative Guide

Intro
I’ll be building off of the wonderful work Helzod made with his Illusionists Guide to Reality (https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-illusionists-guide-to-reality.652620/). Many of the tips below are copies of his ideas, but I’ll extend them further.

This guide will be primarily focused on Minor Illlusion, with a couple brief mentions of what you can do with Silent Image, but generally focus on just the cantrip.

Minor Illusion is arguably the most powerful cantrip in the game with the most availability than any other cantrip. Yet many players get stuck on its limitations and reliance on creativity. Here you'll find how to help your DM reward your creativity and make a more memorable session.

Spell description
See here (https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/minor-illusion).

Classes and Race options
Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, and Warlock can pick up this cantrip.

But also the Arcana Cleric, Arcane Trickster, and Eldritch Knight can pick this cantrip up. You don't need to be an illusionist to let your creativity make a very juicy character.

Opening the doors the Eladrin can shift into Spring to get this spell.
High Elves can opt for this, the best of all cantrips.
All Forest Gnomes get Minor Illusion.
Tieflings(Glasya) get Minor Illusion too.

Opening the doors even further the Magic Initiate feat opens this spell to literally anyone. Don't worry about having a good Cha/Int. You'll rarely need a good DC anyways.


Maximum dimensions
Most people see the limitations of 5' and think the size of a medium creature squatting.
The 5’ cube does not need to align with the grid. Tipped on edge you can get a 7’x5’ door, or stretched out tip to tip you can get a 8.5’ pole with 1” diameter. That is a foot taller than a Goliath, which can fit comfortably along the diagonal, just that his feet need to be at attention.
A half orc can stand at ease.

In general if your height is h then you can fit a cylinder along the diagonal which has radius
r=(5√3-h)/(2√2)

Arguments for grid aligned
Cubes


You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.

- PHB, p.204

So a 5ft cube is defined as an area 5ft on each side. It's not "5 cubic feet of volume", it's a 5x5x5 space. The point of origin lies one one of the 5x5 sides of the cube, as shown in the diagram on the same page. This means the maximum height you can cover is 5ft, the maximum width is 5ft, and the maximum depth is 5ft.

Thus a door would need to be short, and the goliath would need to be in an olympic runner position at the gates.

Save vs Investigation
While Martial characters have an easier time finding attack bonuses and advantage, casters work hard for Save DC bonuses and imposing disadvantage and are rewarded for figuring out which save to target.
But Illusion spells break this mold by consistently creating the illusion you want then requiring your targets to waste their action investigating, if they can. This not only affects multiple targets, prevents attacks through wasted investigate actions, but also relies on a skill and stat that no one is proficient at, so even if they do investigate they’ll likely believe it. Int is the main dump stat, and your proficiency bonus only goes up. The only thing you have to do is find illusions that would be illogical/fearful to investigate or pass through. Many status conditions impose disadvantage on ability checks but not attack rolls/saves. If you have Hex consider making them suck at Int ability checks, which synergizes with Misty Visions.

Auditory
While visual illusions are easier to think up, they are also vulnerable to physical investigations. Auditory illusions are hard to justify how one “investigates” it, thus are a more direct way to change behavior. The trick is thinking on your feet.
When you get in town pay a visit to the Head Guard, Inspector, High Priest and Mayor. Using ventriloquism to have their voice command authority among townsfolk may help you bend their will. When you first enter combat, get the opposing leader to say something so you can fake him giving disruptive orders. See Peter Pan throwing Captain Hook's voice causing confusion. Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SeB5Onj-T8)

Silent Image at-will
While much more of an investment than just Minor Illusion, the feat Eldritch Invocations or a 2 level dip into Warlock gives you huge capabilities if you want to cast illusions for most of your problem solving.
Warlocks get Invocations, most of which are always active. Misty Visions lets you cast Silent Image at-will. This will require your concentration, thus a caster will likely not use it in combat, and a martial person won't have the defensive layers to avoid the concentration checks. What this does buy you is a poor man's Major Illusion thanks to Minor Illusion not competing for your concentration slot. Thus you get both visuals and sound to your illusions.

For the most part Silent Image lets you make realistic creatures, gives you movement, a larger footprint, and more realism with fooling eyes and ears.

A clever thing to use Misty Visions for in combat w/o using your concentration is to always have a "Rogue" buddy walking with your group before combat. Ambushes waste shots on the phantom. When its your first turn you tell your "rogue" to kill anyone that moves then proceed to cast your other concentration spell as normal. From their perspective, all they see is a rogue going invisible. Would you provoke an opportunity attack from an invisible rogue? If everybody else went but didn't get attacked would you risk it? You now have the ultimate defender deployed everywhere on the battlefield w/o spending a spell slot.

How to get your DM to stop hating Illusion spells
One of the main reasons a DM might deny your illusion spells or cause the guards to instinctively investigate is because the illusion derails his storyline or throws away his hard work on preparing an encounter. He may be having a hard time thinking on his feet like you just did casting a clever illusion. Try to find a way to convince the DM to give you advantage on some roll, which lets him rule an impossible DC if he can’t help but railroad you. You may want to evade the guards, but the DM’s plans involve you in jail. Be sensitive to his corralling and seek to flex your creativity in arenas where the outcome isn't just waved away with a cantrip. Also consider your team-mates. You may have thought of a clever way around this encounter, but they might also want to blow some things up. Tune your illusions so it removes/delays a subset of monsters rather than the whole encounter.

There is also a good chance that you are trying to get a minor Illusion to do things it can't. For example creating creatures, or having the image move with/on a person, or making it bigger than a 5' cube. A common abuse is to make a wax figure/statue of a figure. This is cheesy. See below for example a of non-creative and non-smoking things that may accomplish what you want.


General Tips
Communicate the goal and explain why it should work. For example, “I am trying to scare off the reinforcements. This should work because any sane creature is scared of the sound of a dragon roar.”
See the headers below and when you cast your illusion start with one of these intents then go into details.

Create illusions that you wouldn’t want to touch (acid floor, Maximillian's earthen grasp, covered in spider webs), or are out of reach (ghost, witch on a broom) or untouchable (auditory).

If your DM is a Narativist then embellish the illusion with details. Lean into the Rule of Cool.
If your DM is a Simulationist keep it simple, keep it believable. Let him fill in the details on how others are going to react.

In Combat
Spells to fake
A good illusion is one that is believable. A box popping into existence is less believable than a wizard that used Mold Earth to get full cover. When you or an ally casts a conjuration spell do so by saying “A flaming sphere appears here” or “Grease appears in these squares” and let the DM weigh the option of investigating it. Ever so often cast the real thing to keep him guessing. Note that large areas and creatures can only be faked with Silent Image.

Do note that none of these fakes move, which may be a dead giveaway. Mold Earth and Earthen grape specifically state movement as part of the spell.


Message (ie. from their commander giving a secret communique)
Maximillian's earthen grasp
Grasping Vine
Guardian of faith
Mold Earth
Shape Water
Mirror Image (Requires you to be dressed such that a mannequin/non-creature could be dressed and mistaken as you, also that you don’t move much)
Scrying
Rope Trick
Soul Cage
Summon Elemental (go for a Mud elemental and thread the needle between mud castle and bipedal elemental creature)
Summon Fey making a 5' cube of magical darkness



Note: The following spells require Silent Image

Conjure Bonfire
Flaming Sphere
Summon Aberration/Construct/Elemental/Greater demon
Conjure Celestial/Fey/Woodland being/Elemental
Giant Insect
Entangle
Grease
Web
Evard’s Black Tentacles



Create a Choke Point / Area Denial

Maximillian's earthen grasp is probably the best option as it isn’t a creature, fits in a 5’x5’ square, silent, and threatens a 15’ square.
Grasping Vine, if believed, would cover 65 ft. square, but when it fails to act will quickly be ignored.
Have a cocked ballista pointed down a hall or cutting a line in the battlefield.
Have an exterior corner extend further out to force oncommers to face the tank.
Make a hall’s flooring look rotted with termite husks, or the tiling show the telltale signs of being an obvious trap.
Block a doorway with a wolf spider’s web tunnel and 10 red glowing eyes. Have a few hairy legs visible with vicious claws glinting in the light.


If you have Silent Image you get motion opening up a smaller Lovecraftian Evard’s Black Tentacles or some portal with faces covered in black oil trying to scream but only burbles ooze out.


Crowd Control / Split Larger Groups

Have the sounds of arrows flying in from a flanking position, intending to group the up or seed chaos.
The sound of a Banshee’s wail would cause many weaker foes to flee.
Make the sound of a bomb clinking and its fuse hissing. Laugh when everyone tries to spot it. Using the built up tension the next round have the fuse run out and switch the sound to be an enemy calling out where it “is” and ready your action to take advantage of them running away from it.
Make an enemy commander shout, “Everyone, Retreat!!!” or “The wizard is casting fireball, spread out!!”
Make the sound of the ceiling creaking



Cover

Outdoors area: Fake Mold Earth to take cover
Rocky Underdark: Find a corner and cast “Darkness”
City: If there are nearby large boxes, grow it by 1. If there is a pile of refuse make it bigger. If there are stalls make another.
Ship: Crouch in a Box
Mountain: Fake Shape Water to make an icy cube for cover. Recall Shape Water lets you choose the opacity, reinforcing why they can’t see through it.
Make the church bells ringing loudly to cover for the party sneaking by.



Foes Stay put

Have the Voice of enemy guy saying, "Careful! I just saw their rogue go invisible"
Tell your "imp" to bite anyone/specific person/the guy with the confused look/booger on his face that moves. "Yes, I know your bite is deadly. I promise I won't complain like last time when it took hours for your last victim to finally die. There is nothing we can do, I know." then fail your bluff check then have the "imp" respond in a high pitched hiss, "as you wish my master."

A more believable version of the Imp is If you have Misty Visions and can keep up Silent Image all day have a “Rogue” walking with group. When you stop concentrating to cast your real spell, all the monsters see is a rogue going invisible. Even if you get only a few of them playing chicken you’ve saved a few attacks during the critical first round.

Deter attackers away From You

Blades stained in blood are on an inside-out iron-maden.
Suit of heavy armor with full face covering drawing a bow drawing long-range archers away from you
Sound of a bigger natural predator to scare off the current predator. A dire bear can be found in many climbs.
Ooze Jello with a partially digested <insert enemy monster race>
Trumpet sound followed a cavalry charge



Pull someone to a location

"Cast" Soul Cage on a target and elaborate on what horrific things you will do now that you've trapped their soul. Warn them that they'll never get their soul back so long as you have this cage. Laugh as they'll be forced to admit their most secret desires. Brownie points if you bring a real cage to house a justifiably untouchable soul.
Make the image of a person’s head staring directly at them. Be honest, you’d go and investigate it out of morbid curiosity.
Pile of Gold and treasure to lure in the weak minded and greedy.
If your DM goes with it, have a bunch of poppies appear, which, according to actual ancient lore, vampires will feel an irresistible urge to get distracted counting them.
Brains for zombies.
A bloody carcass to pull beasts away.
The sound of a foe’s youngling crying from some desired direction.




Out of combat
Dodge Pursuit

Have the guard you killed call out “All quiet”.
Drop a bag of gold while fleeing.
Turn a door into a wall.
Distract pursuers with a fake portable hole appearing on the door face and inside is utter blackness. Even investigating it and passing their hand through the front they’ll believe they are in a portable hole with nowhere to go but back out.
Dead termites cover a section of rotten wooden boards on that rope bridge.
Cries of "He went this way!” from the opposite direction.
Earthen grasping hand blocks the hallway
Rope Trick vanishing into hole just out of reach.
Boulder/Mold Earth blocking a hallway
Muddy footprints leading away from a party or to a player ambush



Get a Better Deal on Prices

When selling your loot at auction create calls of exclamations and gasping at how valuable your item must be, hopefully biasing the sale to its upper limit.
When buying from Ye Olde Magic Shop, make a neighbor’s voice call from outside, “That’s not what you told the guy last week.” Followed by a conversation between this neighbor and the mayor complaining about him cheating his patrons, followed by the mayor calling for the inspector and auditor to investigate. Offer to put in a good word for him, if he’ll give you a good deal.
Be careful painting your target magic item in rust for if the owner pulls it down you’ll be called out and likely get in trouble.



Get an Advantage on Ability Checks / Social Deceptions
Don’t forget to pay a visit to the Mayor, Chief Justice, Inspector, Thief’s guild, and Chief Priest so you can reuse their voices and authority when dealing with town folks.

Have the commander shout out fake orders.
Make a suit of armor standing where the guard once stood.
Make supportive calls/claims from the peanut gallery.
"Cast" Soul Cage on someone and say you'll return it if they play nice. Bring a real tiny cage that houses the justifiably ethereal soul for greater effect.



Cause Mischief

Create a wanted poster of a suspect or someone you owe money to
Create false evidence
Cat call the princess/mayor’s wife
Ghost sounds to get people out of a building



Start fights / Provoke Attacks

Have the sound of swords being drawn signaling an ambush/coup/attack in town.

borg286
2021-01-05, 05:19 AM
I'm curious is these examples would be allowed by you as a DM

Gignere
2021-01-05, 07:59 AM
I can’t tell which ones you are proposing can be done with minor image and ones that require silent image.

Darkness/Imp/Rogue companion would require silent image at a minimum. But you seem to mix it up quite a bit, so it’s hard for me to say ok this is a legitimate use of minor illusion or not.

Most of your sound suggestions I would allow and might just require a proficiency check. Like mimicking a predators sound, I might require a nature proficiency check, unless you’ve actually encountered one before.

Others seem like it would require a deception or persuasion check potentially with advantage like minor illusion a dropped bag of gold before you try to bribe a guard or distract a guard, depending on the situation.

borg286
2021-01-05, 08:47 AM
I can’t tell which ones you are proposing can be done with minor image and ones that require silent image.

Darkness/Imp/Rogue companion would require silent image at a minimum. But you seem to mix it up quite a bit, so it’s hard for me to say ok this is a legitimate use of minor illusion or not.

Most of your sound suggestions I would allow and might just require a proficiency check. Like mimicking a predators sound, I might require a nature proficiency check, unless you’ve actually encountered one before.

Others seem like it would require a deception or persuasion check potentially with advantage like minor illusion a dropped bag of gold before you try to bribe a guard or distract a guard, depending on the situation.

I have a section dedicated to at-will silent image, and in the Spells to fake section I call out what spells require silent image. For everything else in this document I was shooting for only Minor Illusion.

Regarding the Imp, I wasn't going with a visual imp, but relying on enemies knowing that imps are invisible, or at least being able to deduce it when the invisible imp talks back in a voice that is definitely not mine.

Regarding requiring a proficiency check, the spell description calls out a Lion's roar specifically without any reference to a proficiency check. I can understand one might be called upon to see if your character knows about the local wildlife, which is why I mentioned a dire bear, as bears are adaptable creatures in many environments. It would make sense if you were in a wildly different environment like the underdark.

Osuniev
2021-01-05, 04:02 PM
a fake Conjure Bonfire would not be really convincing, as the flames would not move.Same for all your illusion of moving things :



Maximillian's earthen grasp
Grasping Vine
Flaming Sphere
Guardian of faith
Shape Water
Conjure Bonfire
Summon Elemental (go for a Mud elemental and thread the needle between mud castle and bipedal elemental creature)



All these would be unconvincing at my table to any competent spellcaster because they wouldn't move at all. At the minimum, I'd give them advantage on their Investigation check (but hey, at least they'll waste an action). I might have them ignore it completely, or (possibly) give them disadvantage on whatever they are doing because they would be distracted by it. But in combat, spending your action to give an enemy disadvantage is kind of costly.

Anyone who doesn't know these spells... Might not be scared of them or react as you expect to them.

Turn a door into a wall : it's a hobbit sized door if it's 5 feet high. I guess you could let the bottom part of the door visible and hope they don't notice it.
Nevermind, I missed your part about dimensions. Huh, that's brilliant ! I never thought of fitting things diagonally inside the cube...

What I say to my players to explain what they can do : "you cannot create the illusion of a lion. You CAN create the illusion of a very convincingly painted STATUE of a Medium sized (1.5mx1.5mx1.5m) dog." It avoids silly semantics arguments on what is and isn't a object, whilst setting expectations as to how convincing your "creatures" or "phenomenons" can be.

I do love several of your propositions which I never thought of before :
- the fake Rope Trick
- the statue/suit of armor to replace a dead guard
- the fake order from the enemy leader (although I would require a Performance check, but my player has a bard PC with the Comedian feat who will loooove the idea... Still, in combat, one action is a costly thing to waste when the enemy can freely talk on their turn to correct it.)

Klorox
2021-01-05, 04:47 PM
Thank you for posting this! I'm hoping for a little more detail and to flesh things out (perhaps I'll add something tomorrow).

Minor Illusion is my favorite cantrip!

Segev
2021-01-05, 05:02 PM
First off, I'm always excited to see new ideas for exploiting illusion spells. Well done!

Secondly, you've got a bit in the original post that should read "half orc can" but instead reads "half or can."

Got to be careful with "walls of darkness" or the like: a minor illusion can create a 5x5x5 foot cube that is pitch black, or any portion thereof, but it's creating an image of an object, not technically of "magical darkness" (which would be a phenomenon). And that assumes your DM uses magical darkness as an ink blot, rather than just a region where light cannot light anything up.

Since it's an image of an object, "walking into it" would trigger the "physical interaction" clause on minor illusion, where it might not for a silent image of the phenomenon of magical darkness (since they'd not expect to feel anything entering it anyway).

I particularly love the idea of the silent image of a rogue with you that "goes invisible." I might add that you can use the bonus action you've been using to move it about to have it drink an equally-illusory potion before disappearing. If you're willing to devote your first action to cementing it, having a minor illusion of his footsteps shuffle a moment before the rogue fully goes silent might add to the illusion. But it's probably not necessary.

You could back up your illusion of a ballista with a real bolt you use catapult on, too. Hit or no hit, it'll be real enough to make them think twice about coming into the line of fire again; they need not know it was a spell with limited castings.

Osuniev
2021-01-05, 05:04 PM
I'm actually interested in having DMs feedback on how to rule the convincingness of illusions. I LIKE the Illusion school, and want to encourage my PCs using their creativity in combat :

- on the one hand, if it's impossible to disbelieve without wasting an action, it makes what's already a good cantrip (at least out of combat) HUGE. One action spent by the PCs is often much less valuable than one action by the Big Bad Monster, and they still might fail the check.
- on the other hand, if the illusion is ruled unconvincing and therefore IGNORED, then the caster completely wasted their action. It discourages trying a new tactic.

I feel like RAW, the illusion is either convincing (and therefore will not be investigated at all), or unconvincing (and therefore... will not be investigated at all).

I would feel better if the Investigation check was a bonus action or something, meaning it would be really useful against average INT enemies, and less useful against smarter foes.And then I could give Advantage or Disadvantage to the check depending on how plausible the illusion is.

I feel the same about higher illusions, but there I often err on the side of the players (a good Silent Image can often win an encounter by itself, which is fine - more time to play the next encounter and makes my PCs feel good !)

Mellack
2021-01-05, 05:44 PM
Our group has decided to essentially ignore the illusion spells. That is because it is incredibly hard to make them balanced. As Osuniev said, they are either easily ignores and practically useless, or they are the most powerful and indispensable spells available. Either way makes them unfun. I hope you can find a balance in your group.

Segev
2021-01-05, 06:01 PM
I'm actually interested in having DMs feedback on how to rule the convincingness of illusions. I LIKE the Illusion school, and want to encourage my PCs using their creativity in combat :

- on the one hand, if it's impossible to disbelieve without wasting an action, it makes what's already a good cantrip (at least out of combat) HUGE. One action spent by the PCs is often much less valuable than one action by the Big Bad Monster, and they still might fail the check.
- on the other hand, if the illusion is ruled unconvincing and therefore IGNORED, then the caster completely wasted their action. It discourages trying a new tactic.

I feel like RAW, the illusion is either convincing (and therefore will not be investigated at all), or unconvincing (and therefore... will not be investigated at all).

I would feel better if the Investigation check was a bonus action or something, meaning it would be really useful against average INT enemies, and less useful against smarter foes.And then I could give Advantage or Disadvantage to the check depending on how plausible the illusion is.

I feel the same about higher illusions, but there I often err on the side of the players (a good Silent Image can often win an encounter by itself, which is fine - more time to play the next encounter and makes my PCs feel good !)

It's potentially important to remember that nothing says that somebody is convinced the illusion is real (and not an illusion) just because they haven't made or have made and failed the Investigation check. "I think Bob, who I know is an Illusionist, just conjured an illusory statue of himself here, not a real one; I mean, I saw him cast the spell and he's NEVER conjured a real statue before," is not unreasonable. "But it sure looks convincing. Let me make sure...." and only after poking it (or otherwise successfully examining it) does it become translucent.

A successful investigation or physical interaction makes it translucent and obviously an illusion to the one inspecting it. But even if they fail, or haven't tried it yet, they can suspect. They just can't convince themselves viscerally.

This means you prefer illusions not to ever arouse suspicion at all. But they're still useful as blinds even if suspected.

Osuniev
2021-01-05, 06:15 PM
Thing is, in combat, there is no time to waste investigating a suspected Illusion. If I'm ruling my smart guards suspect it's an Illusion, no way they'll risk getting butchered while poking it. A wild animal, surprised there's no smell ? Maybe ?

I mean, that's ok, Illusion spells are still quite useful in many non-combat situations, but I feel terrible whenever my bard is being creative if I shut her down. I would much prefer a (house)rule or ruling that let's her be useful but not OP using illusions in combat.

Segev
2021-01-05, 06:25 PM
Thing is, in combat, there is no time to waste investigating a suspected Illusion. If I'm ruling my smart guards suspect it's an Illusion, no way they'll risk getting butchered while poking it. A wild animal, surprised there's no smell ? Maybe ?

I mean, that's ok, Illusion spells are still quite useful in many non-combat situations, but I feel terrible whenever my bard is being creative if I shut her down. I would much prefer a (house)rule or ruling that let's her be useful but not OP using illusions in combat.

Sure. The key is to have NPCs treat them with appropriate caution. Act like they're real unless there's good reason to risk them not being real, and then the "testing" should probably be ignoring them. I'd even go so far as to just let them trick NPCs and creatures unless there's a very good reason NOT to.

Unfortunately, too many DMs have trouble with this even when they mean to treat them as real. The subconscious knowledge they're not real leads to different strategic and tactical decisions than if they were.

Tanarii
2021-01-05, 07:07 PM
Or just use illusions that are useful even if they are ignored.

How easy this is depends on how your DM rules on physical interaction. E.g. Blocking vision is harder if any physical interaction causes it to go faint for everyone.

borg286
2021-01-06, 04:46 PM
What do you think of a caster using Mage Hand to prop up a puppet dressed up as a sprite/pixie as he walks into battle. When this caster tells his fey that he "summoned" to place magical darkness "there" then casts Minor Illusion to make a black cube appear there. While RAW anything passing through this black cube would trigger the "appears to be an Illusion" it also makes sense that things would logically pass through. There is support for Summon Fey to look roughly the same.
I love the idea of a sorcerer using Mage Hand to have a "familiar" and using Minor Illusion then blaming it on Banjo.

borg286
2021-01-06, 04:49 PM
I've generally been struggling to find something that would be big enough to hide behind, not a creature, and understandable when it just pops into existence. Summon Fey provides this pretense, but is there anything else I could "summon"?

Segev
2021-01-06, 05:26 PM
I've generally been struggling to find something that would be big enough to hide behind, not a creature, and understandable when it just pops into existence. Summon Fey provides this pretense, but is there anything else I could "summon"?

A pile of gravel "dug up" from the ground behind it, perhaps. It's within the power of mold earth, so is something wizards can do.

borg286
2021-01-06, 05:39 PM
A pile of gravel "dug up" from the ground behind it, perhaps. It's within the power of mold earth, so is something wizards can do.
The issue I'm trying to solve is that Minor Illusion can't make the gravel/dirt mound rise out of the ground, it just appears. Earthen Grasp also rises from the ground. I'd like it if they just appeared like most summon spells do.

Segev
2021-01-06, 05:49 PM
The issue I'm trying to solve is that Minor Illusion can't make the gravel/dirt mound rise out of the ground, it just appears. Earthen Grasp also rises from the ground. I'd like it if they just appeared like most summon spells do.

That's subject to DM ruling. It doesn't need to go into detail of all the possible ways "creating an image" can look; that kind of thing is generally left to the player and/or DM to adjudicate.

borg286
2021-01-07, 12:00 AM
If I create a black cube (imitating magical darkness) and shoot eldritch blast from inside, would that constitute "interaction" like an arrow coming out of it?

Segev
2021-01-07, 12:38 AM
If I create a black cube (imitating magical darkness) and shoot eldritch blast from inside, would that constitute "interaction" like an arrow coming out of it?

That's entirely up to your DM. I would say "yes," myself, because it's "a black cube" and not actually "darkness." But there's lots of wiggle room. Your DM may think that anybody who buys it as "magical darkness" is not going to automatically see through it.

Personally, I run magical darkness as no different from nonmagical darkness in terms of seeing to the other side of it, so it's not a great choice to obscure yourself with, anyway, unless you're near a background that will be darkened as much as you are. This is more common than you might think, but is sometimes important. Thus, a "black cube" or even a "black sphere" doesn't really look like "darkness."

All that said, this is how I run it, not how all DMs will. Many, many DMs run the ink blot version of magical darkness, for one thing. For another, whether an illusory object designed to look like magical darkness is revealed as fake by physical interaction when the observers are expecting magical darkness (which would have things pass in and out anyway) is entirely a DM call.

Tanarii
2021-01-07, 01:21 AM
If I create a black cube (imitating magical darkness) and shoot eldritch blast from inside, would that constitute "interaction" like an arrow coming out of it?
Standing inside would count as physical interaction.

Whether that results in you being aware it's an illusion but needing to make a check for it to go faint, it automatically going faint just for you, or it automatically going faint for everyone but you is a DM ruling.

Danielqueue1
2021-01-07, 11:42 AM
I know it's difficult to be perfectly Fair on it but I do a bit of a hybrid when I DM How a creature reacts to a an illusion will depend greatly on the situation. If a wizard makes a magical Barrel pop up out of nowhere and hides behind it, or especially if they hide inside it, anyone that has ever interacted with magic will suspect it to be an illusion and treat it accordingly. If a character ran into an alley out of sight and did the same thing, then most enemies giving Chase would continue to run down the alley yelling "he went this way!"

If someone makes an illusory wall, enemies would treat it like a wall of Stone spell. A powerful creature might try to break through it wasting an attack to find out it's not really there. Weaker creatures may not even try unless they see arrows or spells or people going through it.

Silent image invisible rogue will depend on how much the party plays into it. The "rogue" disappearing will make the enemy more alert, but if the wizard uses the catapult spell to deliver a dagger or crossbow bolt to someone's back and calls out "nice shot edgelord!" Then you can bet several of those bandits/soldiers/orcs are going to be wasting actions looking for the "rogue" or readying actions to shoot "once they see where the rogue is shooting from."

I will also adjust to how familiar the enemy is with the location. An illusory shack blocking an alleyway in the slums isn't going to be questioned by the guards who rarely patrol the slums, the local organized crime that use that alley as a shortcut are going to have questions. An illusory wall covering a hallway
In a palace won't be questioned by the guests at the ball going on, but any palace guards that see it will be alerted that somethings going on immediately and will either investigate with weapons drawn, or raise an alarm depending on their orders.

In the end, if the illusion fits the location and situation well, with a little set up it can be powerful, sometimes even an instant win situation. In combat, without set up, without explanation and an object that can't move and doesn't fit the surroundings? People are going to ignore it or count it as an illusion from the moment it shows up.

Segev
2021-01-07, 11:52 AM
Standing inside would count as physical interaction.

Whether that results in you being aware it's an illusion but needing to make a check for it to go faint, it automatically going faint just for you, or it automatically going faint for everyone but you is a DM ruling.

Agreeing with you, here, but wanting to delve into the ways to think about this:

To me, the "physical interaction" rule is an acknowledgement that there's no need to make an Investigation check to tell that, say, a barrel isn't real if somebody walks right through it. This is why I would argue that a silent image of a fog bank would not be revealed just by having arrows shoot in or out of it. If you use the ink blot darkness, a silent image of that phenomenon would also not trigger translucence by having somebody physically interact with it for the same reason.

Under this understanding/interpretation, it still is unclear how this works with a minor illusion of an object that is meant to look like a phenomenon. A "black cube" that is meant to be a "wall of darkness" is still an image of an object, but is what's important the understanding/perception of the observers or if the fact that the spell is creating an image of an object has ontological power. There is no "check" to see if "a black cube" fools people into thinking it's "a cube of magical darkness," so it's hard to judge. Personally, I would draw the line, here, on the basis that "vantablack" is not really a concept in fantasy and an object is an object and not a phenomenon. It might fool people, but something about physical interaction will show that it is an object and not a phenomenon, and also that it isn't reacting properly to being touched.

So, personally, I'd have observed physical interaction reveal its illusory nature. You being inside it lets you see through it. You shooting anything out of it makes it translucent to all who see that happen. I would not have this be the case for a silent image of fog or magical darkness ink blots. (I also wouldn't permit silent image to make illusory magical darkness because it can't "coat" things in illusions, and there's nothing to directly see with magical darkness the way I run it. It's only visible by the lack of illumination on anything within the region.)

I base this on there being a little bit of "metaphysical truth" to what the image is of. While it can fool people (a statue can look like a creature), it remains an image of an object. This is a little bit of a contradiction with my interpretation that the "physical interaction" is not metaphysically breaking the illusion, but rather is a clear revelation of its nature, but I feel it an acceptable divide in the name of abstraction: we have no rules for and should not be calling for checks to recognize the image is an object and not a phenomenon. Physical interaction reveals the object not to be real, even if the observer thought it a phenomenon before, as a simplification and abstraction.