Eldritch Adept

[paladinn]

I'm starting a new character, and I'm leaning toward a single-class divine soul sorcerer (not my usual paladin/sorcadin/sorlock/padlock). I like a lot of the new Tasha feats, and am wanting to take the eldritch adept feat at 1st level (vuman).

If I were going paladin, I'd take magic initiate and grab E-blast; but sorcs have a lot of other ranged options. I'm especially thinking firebolt with the transmute spell metamagic.. instant icebolt, shockbolt, acidbolt, etc! Besides, to get A-blast, I would have to spend 2 feats.

I'm considering Armor of Shadows for my invocation. I thought at-will mage armor would be good for a squishy sorc. I'm just not sure if it fits thematically with my DS sorc. Or is there a better option for a sorc?

[ThatoneGuy84]

Being that mage armor is 8 hour duration I dont really see why taking this is better then Magic initiate

[AttilatheYeon]

Mask of Many Faces is amazing, especially when used with friends.

[Eriol]

Being that mage armor is 8 hour duration I dont really see why taking this is better then Magic initiate
Agreed. If you're taking a feat, Magic Initiate gets you a spell, a slot to cast it with, and TWO cantrips on top of that. The Tasha's feat just gets you mage armor at will. And the number of days which an 8-hour duration isn't enough... I've yet to encounter it. It might happen, but still.

[AttilatheYeon]

Agreed. If you're taking a feat, Magic Initiate gets you a spell, a slot to cast it with, and TWO cantrips on top of that. The Tasha's feat just gets you mage armor at will. And the number of days which an 8-hour duration isn't enough... I've yet to encounter it. It might happen, but still.

I can only see it being worthwhile on an abjurer.

[J-H]

The Lightly Armored feat gets you light armor and +1 to Str or Dex. Studded Leather is cheap, doesn't get Dispelled, and is AC 12. The +1 Dex might be enough to tip you over to another point of AC, depending on your stat array. If it does, then you end up with the AC of Mage Armor, and +1 to Dex saves and Initiatives, for the same cost.

Also, magical light armor beats out mage armor at higher levels.

[Greywander]

Be aware that you cannot get Agonizing Blast from the Eldritch Adept feat. Per the wording of the feat, you must have warlock levels before you can take an invocation that has prerequisites, even if you meet those prerequisites. Agonizing Blast has a prerequisite, namely that you have Eldritch Blast. Even if you meet that prerequisite, you must still have warlock levels to take AB.

If you want Mage Armor, Magic Initiate might be a better choice. The spell lasts for 8 hours, so it's unlikely you'll need to recast it. If you do, it's on the sorcerer list, so you can recast it using a spell slot if needed. The two extra cantrips will make up for the occasional extra spell slot you burn on Mage Armor.

Mask of Many Faces or Misty Visions are usually the invocations people talk about when it comes to at-will casting. It's up to you if you want to play your character as an illusionist or enchanter. Otherwise, Devil's Sight is always a solid pick. Beast Speech and Eldritch Sight seem to be somewhat overlooked; even as a ritual, you're not going to have Detect Magic up all the time, and so might miss something important, while Eldritch Sight does let you have it up all the time. Eyes of the Rune Keeper is a nice and flavorful ability.

I was going to also suggest Eldritch Mind from Tasha's, but if you're spending a feat either way, Warcaster is the better option.

[Necromas]

Besides, to get A-blast, I would have to spend 2 feats.

The feat reads "If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock who meets the prerequisite." This means that you can't take agonizing blast with the feat unless you are a warlock first, even though the prerequisite for agonizing blast itself doesn't mention warlock levels.

[Greywander]

The feat reads "If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock who meets the prerequisite." This means that you can't take agonizing blast with the feat unless you are a warlock first, even though the prerequisite for agonizing blast itself doesn't mention warlock levels.
your2slo.sonic

Also, you can technically get Thief of Five Fates with Eldritch Adept, as it has no prerequisites. It is unusable, however, since you don't have any pact magic slots. Personally, I'd rather have an invocation that allows you to cast Bane at will, though I can still see the value in To5F as a separate invocation, since it upcasts with your pact magic slot level, whereas at will casting is usually at the lowest level.

[paladinn]

Also, magical light armor beats out mage armor at higher levels.

Assuming your DM lets you get a suit of "magical light armor." I think it's a mistake to assume that you're going to get certain magic items by certain levels. We're not playing 4e

[Segev]

I'm starting a new character, and I'm leaning toward a single-class divine soul sorcerer (not my usual paladin/sorcadin/sorlock/padlock). I like a lot of the new Tasha feats, and am wanting to take the eldritch adept feat at 1st level (vuman).

If I were going paladin, I'd take magic initiate and grab E-blast; but sorcs have a lot of other ranged options. I'm especially thinking firebolt with the transmute spell metamagic.. instant icebolt, shockbolt, acidbolt, etc! Besides, to get A-blast, I would have to spend 2 feats.

I'm considering Armor of Shadows for my invocation. I thought at-will mage armor would be good for a squishy sorc. I'm just not sure if it fits thematically with my DS sorc. Or is there a better option for a sorc?

I will point out chromatic orb is a pretty good choice for any-element damage. Though Sorcs do have limited spells known, so using metamagic to eke that out of Cantrips makes some sense.

I'm personally a fan of Misty Visions for an Eldritch Adept grab, but I really love illusionists (and it's for an Illusionist Wizard build that I'd most likely take it). I do agree with others that Armor of Shadows is a bad pick, because Magic Initiate would get you more.

Devil's Sight is a highly-coveted ability; 120 feet of seeing in the dark as if it were brightly lit and explicitly penetrating magical darkness is nice. Eyes of the Rune Keeper is great if you can't get comprehend languages and your DM uses strange languages.

If you want an at-will spell that's very useful and don't want to have to spend 10 minutes casting it, Eldritch Sight gives you detect magic at will. Mask of Many Faces for disguise self at will can be a pretty defining trait, too, though you might be better off picking Changeling as your race (trade off between it being a physical transformation - no chance of being touched to be revealed - vs. it affecting your clothing).

Beast speech is another good one on the "cool ability to have at will" front.

Gaze of Two Minds is one I am not sure how useful it is, but as the healer, maybe it would be nice to link to the rogue so you can report to the party what he sees and hears during scouting?

Several options are essentially feats, and you'd probably be better off taking the relevant feats directly (especially since some are half feats and come with a bonus +1 to a stat).

So I think the good/useful/interesting choices are:
Beast Speech
Devil's Sight
Eldritch Sight (though detect magic as a ritual is almost as good)
Eyes of the Rune Keeper (though comprehend languages as a ritual is almost as good)
Gaze of Two Minds (you'd need to think on how you want to use this)
Mask of Many Faces
Misty Visions

Despite Thief of Five Fates having no prerequisites, you have no Warlock spell slots to cast bane with, so it's a true waste of a feat to take that Invocation.

Fiendish Vigor also gives false life at will; you can probably be assumed to always have 9 temporary hp at the start of any combat if you're willing to spam it every hour until you roll a 4 on the d4. I just have trouble getting excited over a feat for 9 extra hp, even if they "heal" after every encounter. Still, at level 1, 9 extra hp is pretty tough.

The question is: what is it you really want to do with the character? A couple options for Invocations can define a play style. And don't forget that other feats can do some things eligible Invocations permit, but better.

Sorcerers are not ritual casters, but you can get Ritual Caster for wizardry and have comprehend languages and detect magic in there, both, for the price of a feat instead of an Invocation to cast one of them at will. And the ritual book can expand its contents. While speak with animals is also a ritual spell, it's on the Bard and Druid lists, so if you want Beast Speech covered as well, you'd need to pick Bard as your class for Ritual Caster. ...admittedly, this lines up nicely with your Charisma-focus on Sorcerer. Though I think Wizard has a better overall selection. And, I will note, speak with animals is one you might actually want now rather than "10 minutes from now," so if you like the idea of having that at will, picking Beast Speech is not quite as much of an opportunity cost as Eldritch Sight or Eyes of the Rune Keeper.

Spell Sniper can double your attack cantrips' ranges if you use one that requires an attack roll (like firebolt), and you can pick any one Cantrip that requires an attack roll as well as part of the feat (freeing up a cantrip choice, or even permitting you access to eldritch blast if you want it, though that won't let you use Elemental Spell to swap the type out).

Elemental Adept would reduce the need to use Elemental Spell, letting your firebolt ignore resistance, though it's not going to ignore immunity.

Essentially, you need to determine what you want this character's play style to be, and then pick a feat (or Invocation) that suits that. Invocations can, as I said, define this, if you want them to and you pick the right one.

[Kane0]

Can you use it to get Mask of Many Faces or Misty Visions? That’s what i’d choose.

[J-H]

Assuming your DM lets you get a suit of "magical light armor." I think it's a mistake to assume that you're going to get certain magic items by certain levels. We're not playing 4e

Sure, but presumably people know what to expect from their games and DMs. With a typical PC getting 5-7 permanent magic items over 20 levels (see posts 5 & 8 (https://www.enworld.org/threads/analysis-of-typical-magic-item-distribution.395770/)), I think most will probably eventually get a magic armor of some sort.

[J.C.]

Eldritch Adept is ridiculous. You can change what it is every level! Outrageously undercosted!

[ezekielraiden]

Well, let's go through the list.

Armor of Shadows is kind of meh, since (as noted) the duration of mage armor is already 8 hours. You're spending a feat to save a low-level spell slot. I could see it being useful early on, when you have an incredibly short list of spells and few spell slots, so I suppose you could do that now and swap it out for something better later.

Beast Speech is cool utility, but will depend very heavily on what your DM lets you do with it. If you can persuade animals to help you in various ways, this could be character-defining. If you can only use them for reconnaissance or fact-finding, it's good but maybe not "spend your bonus feat" good. If even getting info out of them is hard, avoid.

Beguiling Influence would be awesome...except that just taking Skilled would get you 3 skills, not 2.

Devil's Sight is excellent, since it gives you something even better than Superior Darkvision. The human lack of darkvision is a known flaw, so this makes for a very good pick, and permits the "drop a darkness spell on yourself, suffer no penalties" benefit. I'd call this the best pick of the bunch long-term.

Eldritch Mind would be awesome...if it weren't already covered by the superior War Caster.

Eldritch Sight is bad, you could get equivalent benefits from Ritual Caster (Bard or Sorcerer) instead, but with extras too.

Eyes of the Rune Keeper is super flavorful, but very niche unless secret writing or coded messages are a common thing. In an Eberron intrigue-heavy game it could be amazing, for example, but otherwise I'd go for something else.

Fiendish Vigor is meh. Early on it might be good, free THP means more survivability, but it falls off in value very quickly.

Gaze of Two Minds is potentially flavorful, but going to be extremely niche. I'd pass on this.

Mask of Many Faces is excellent, especially since you're a Sorcerer and thus have good Charisma. You effectively become a changeling, able to wear whatever face you like when dealing with people. The utility is limited only by people's ability to detect the illusion. If Devil's Sight doesn't appeal to you, this is the next-best choice long-term.

Misty Visions is useful, but somewhat niche. If you're really into illusions, it could be good, especially if you have a pro-illusion DM. But a lot of DMs aren't particularly pro-illusion, so the utility of this may vary a LOT depending on your DM. Probably the third-best long-term pick.

Thief of Five Fates is broken, as it technically doesn't have any prerequisites, but the text requires you to expend a Warlock spell slot, which you do not have. Even if you could do it, I dunno if it's particularly worthwhile; it's not that bane is a BAD spell, I just don't think it's worth sinking a feat solely to be able to cast it once a day, since you get that and more from Magic Initiate (Warlock).

So, it seems to me you have three categories of "worthwhile" picks: early-benefit, niche-utility, and generally-strong. Obviously, the early benefit ones are slightly stronger early on, so Armor of Shadows or Fiendish Vigor might be worthwhile at 1st and maybe 2nd level, but should be dropped for something from the other two groups after that (unless you're really desperate for that extra spell known and thus want to keep Armor of Shadows). I personally recommend either Devil's Sight or Mask of Many Faces; these are the most broadly-applicable benefits, which could be relevant to nearly any campaign. Devil's Sight in particular is unique because, as far as I know, it is the only way to gain permanent darkvision (indeed, Ultra-Super Darkvision) that exists in 5e. Unique utility is always going to get a high mark.

[MoiMagnus]

Eldritch Sight is bad, you could get equivalent benefits from Ritual Caster (Wizard) instead, but with extras too.

Technically, Eldritch Sight is slightly better than having detect magic as a ritual, as ritual casting takes 10min which mean you alternate between 10min of casting time and 10min of detect magic. Though it's still not worth the Ritual Caster feat as a whole.

[ezekielraiden]

Technically, Eldritch Sight is slightly better than having detect magic as a ritual, as ritual casting takes 10min which mean you alternate between 10min of casting time and 10min of detect magic. Though it's still not worth the Ritual Caster feat as a whole.

Alright, that is technically a benefit, you can have effectively 24/7 detect magic, but I think we are in agreement that spending a feat just to get that is a waste. I can't even bring myself to justify bumping it up from "bad, avoid" to "incredibly niche" even with this concession.

[paladinn]

My interest in Armor of Shadows is more for survivability at low-levels. Sorcs are among the squishiest; and having that available at-will would be a benefit, I would think. And with EA, I could swap the invocation out later if I wanted.

I have mixed feelings about Devil's Sight. Seeing in any darkness sounds great; but for it to work in a group, the darkness puts everyone else at risk. And not sure about how well the theme works with Divine Soul.

[Gignere]

My interest in Armor of Shadows is more for survivability at low-levels. Sorcs are among the squishiest; and having that available at-will would be a benefit, I would think. And with EA, I could swap the invocation out later if I wanted.

I have mixed feelings about Devil's Sight. Seeing in any darkness sounds great; but for it to work in a group, the darkness puts everyone else at risk. And not sure about how well the theme works with Divine Soul.

Mage armor overrated for survival unless you decide to face tank as a caster. Played a wizard without mage armor and did fine all the way through tier 2 when game ended.

[Segev]

My interest in Armor of Shadows is more for survivability at low-levels. Sorcs are among the squishiest; and having that available at-will would be a benefit, I would think. And with EA, I could swap the invocation out later if I wanted.

I have mixed feelings about Devil's Sight. Seeing in any darkness sounds great; but for it to work in a group, the darkness puts everyone else at risk. And not sure about how well the theme works with Divine Soul.

I think you'd find, for low-level survivability, at-will false life from Fiendish Vigor would be superior to AC 13+Dex from Armor of Shadows. (The "at will" on an 8-hour duration spell is meh.) At-will false life means you usually will have 9 temp hp when you get into a fight.

On Devil's Sight, don't think of it as only useful if you drop magical darkness on the party. Think of it as letting you not require light when nobody else in the party does. (This is party-dependent; if you're the only human, it's quite possible everyone else has racial darkvision.)

Edit to add: As for it being "celestial," you could have it be a "sacred light" that only you can see and see by, perhaps?

[ezekielraiden]

Fully agree with Segev's analysis here, and just want to reiterate that you should fluff your invocations as you wish.

For you, perhaps it is the Light of Truth. No mundane darkness can block Truth, and no petty magic can bar its way. Or perhaps it is the Eyes of Justice: though "blind," Justice knows where the scales fall and whom to strike when they do.

Never be afraid to change the name of something, especially if you're already bending its fluff by accessing it in a very different way.

[Greywander]

I second Fiendish Vigor if what you're after is low level survivability. The problem with 1st level is that you go down in one or two hits, and low HP PCs can be instagibbed by a critical hit, so it's very unforgiving. Fiendish Vigor should roughly double your HP, and you can refresh it between fights easily.

Something to remember about Devil's Sight is that it doesn't help you see any better in dim light, only in darkness. So it's not redundant with darkvision. If you don't have darkvision, then there may be times when you need to "kill the light" in order to see better; if you can't illuminate everything with bright light, you should be able to plunge everything into total darkness.

If you still want Mage Armor, I still think Magic Initiate is the better route to go. It's also on the sorcerer list, so you can just spend a spell known on it. You can also keep an eye open for elven chain, which can be used even without proficiency.

[Segev]

Something to remember about Devil's Sight is that it doesn't help you see any better in dim light, only in darkness. So it's not redundant with darkvision. If you don't have darkvision, then there may be times when you need to "kill the light" in order to see better; if you can't illuminate everything with bright light, you should be able to plunge everything into total darkness.I see where you're coming from with the RAW, here, though I disagree that it clearly states that, and in any event, this is very much an "ask your DM" thing. I can see that adding interest to it. I can also see it being annoying and not worth the attention.


If you still want Mage Armor, I still think Magic Initiate is the better route to go. It's also on the sorcerer list, so you can just spend a spell known on it. You can also keep an eye open for elven chain, which can be used even without proficiency.

Definitely agree, here. If you're doing this for mage armor, and you really really want it, go for Magic Initiate, not Eldritch Adept. If you're doing it for semi-disposable low-level survivability to be later replaced by something else, Fiendish Vigor will keep you alive better. You needn't worry so much about Concentration checks at low level; you need to worry about not dying. At mid and high level, you'll have better options for avoiding damage than either, so will want to change out the Invocation anyway. There's no point at which Armor of Shadows is worthwhile for somebody accessing Invocations via a feat.

[Greywander]

I see where you're coming from with the RAW, here, though I disagree that it clearly states that, and in any event, this is very much an "ask your DM" thing. I can see that adding interest to it. I can also see it being annoying and not worth the attention.
YMMV, but it's been stated by the developers that this was intentional. They wanted warlocks to have a spooky vibe, and intentionally putting out your lights (to eliminate the dim light they cast) because you see better in total darkness is part of that spooky vibe.

IIRC, by RAW it only mentions darkness, not dim light, so there shouldn't be an effect in dim light. I can see how this might not be worth the trouble of running it that way, but it is the RAW. The DM is always free to change the rules, though I do think it's more interesting this way.

[Naanomi]

There's no point at which Armor of Shadows is worthwhile for somebody accessing Invocations via a feat.
Excepting perhaps some abjurers

[diplomancer]

I don't think that having "super darkvision" is worth the feat you get as a V. Human, you are basically playing catch-up. What might be worth it is to start with some invocation like Fiendish Vigor and then later change it to Devil's Sight once it stops being as good.

9 extra hit points every fight is good throughout a campaign (assuming 6 fights per long rest); what makes it stop scaling so well is once other sources of THPs appear.