Mercy monk: hand of harm flurry of blows/stunning strike

[stoutstien]

I initially skipped over the mercy monk when I read through tasha's. I gave it a once over and moved on. Rereading it I'm wondering if it might low key be a very cool competitive option.

First off it allows for them to fish out some recovery and status removal very cheaply. Monks are already decent at filling a few different roles when called upon adding another hat that meshes with the monks action pool is nice.

The real puzzle is hand of harm. At one ki, it costs the same as flurry which is the basic monk ki sink for damage. If a monk wanted to use one or the other to conserve on ki which is better? theoretically I would assume that they are almost identical in damage for the same cost but HoH might feel more satisfying due to the inability to waste it? Obviously this changes at lv 6 when the automatic condition rider comes online.

Then we have the HoH vs SS. They can stack for going nova but if you didn't want to blow all your ki in a single round HoH might dethroned SS as the cheapest form of mitigation and threat a monk can produce. As long as the target isn't immune to poison is a pretty big what if but no save and a decent damage type means it's cheap to find out.

Speaking of HoH + SS, I believe it's cheaper to land HoH and then SS over SS+FoB. Might have the new SS spammer for eating LR.

[ZRN]

The real puzzle is hand of harm. At one ki, it costs the same as flurry which is the basic monk ki sink for damage. If a monk wanted to use one or the other to conserve on ki which is better? theoretically I would assume that they are almost identical in damage for the same cost but HoH might feel more satisfying due to the inability to waste it? Obviously this changes at lv 6 when the automatic condition rider comes online.

HOH is better. Not only do you not waste any ki by using it on a miss, but when you use HOH on your regular turn, the new Ki-Fueled Attack allows you to use your bonus action for a weapon (e.g. quarterstaff) attack instead of an unarmed attack, which at low to mid levels will increase your damage further.



Speaking of HoH + SS, I believe it's cheaper to land HoH and then SS over SS+FoB. Might have the new SS spammer for eating LR.

Why would HOH make it easier to land SS?

[stoutstien]

HOH is better. Not only do you not waste any ki by using it on a miss, but when you use HOH on your regular turn, the new Ki-Fueled Attack allows you to use your bonus action for a weapon (e.g. quarterstaff) attack instead of an unarmed attack, which at low to mid levels will increase your damage further.

I looked at that in my comparison. Mostly washed out because you need an UA strike fro HoH. It does allow the monk to open up with UA strike until they land one, proc HOH and finish up with larger weapon die.


Why would HOH make it easier to land SS?
Mostly it will force movement as the best option which will open AOO. It's basically half of patience defense for free.

[Spiritchaser]

I also glossed quickly over the mercy monk but caught that poisoned condition rider the other day.

No save debuff against anything not immune to the poisoned condition is fantastic on its own and since it’s once per turn you could end up with a really nasty opportunity attack as well (maybe with sentinel)?

I’m not likely starting a new character any time soon but this looks seriously good for a monk, far better than stunning strike monks who face a tough to break con save.

I’d say even before the rider kicks in, this is the best way to spend ki in a fight because it doesn’t miss, and necrotic resistance notwithstanding, it’s guaranteed to be 100% efficient.

Side note: I’m away from the book right now, does hand of harm say anything about being “magical”?

[MrStabby]

I am really in two minds over this. On the downside...

It's ok. I find the archetype a bit unsatisfying as it doesnt add as much as I feel it should. It isnt that the choices are underpowered, just that they feel redundant.

So hand of harm just feels like it is sitting in a very similar functional space to flurry of blows... so what's the point? You can already burn a Ki for extra damage. It isnt like way of shadow where you can burn Ki to cast silence or darkness and do something qualitatively different.

And then the healing feels kind of weak. Depending on table style/preferences you may care about size of healing or just enough to pick someone up from unconscious. If you want big healing then it feels a bit inefficient given the amount of Ki you need to sink in. If you just want the option of picking up someone from unconscious then I would be tempted by a dip of another class for healing word or even a feat and get your subclass back for something else.

I mean I guess if you wanted to be able to pick up those zero hp allies AND you were at a table with no feats and no multiclass then I could see it.


Then I looked at it again. Its... kind of like I thought, but better. Sure the healing is modest but if you want to be a healer then your fulfillment of your role is going to be determined by how often you get to do your thing... the number of turns on which you can heal as a mercy monk will actually be quite high due to short rest recovery. I could see this really shining on a Gritty Realism variant.

And at level 6 where you start to clear up conditions pretty effectively as well I can see you leaning into the healer role pretty hard. The scaling up of the martial arts die is a pretty slow improvement though.

My gripe is that it overlaps too much with the paladin, which is just a better base class. Smiting, healing, removal of conditions... paladins with their spells and lay on hands and even some channel divinity all overlap with the Mercy monk.

[stoutstien]

I am really in two minds over this. On the downside...

It's ok. I find the archetype a bit unsatisfying as it doesnt add as much as I feel it should. It isnt that the choices are underpowered, just that they feel redundant.

So hand of harm just feels like it is sitting in a very similar functional space to flurry of blows... so what's the point? You can already burn a Ki for extra damage. It isnt like way of shadow where you can burn Ki to cast silence or darkness and do something qualitatively different.

And then the healing feels kind of weak. Depending on table style/preferences you may care about size of healing or just enough to pick someone up from unconscious. If you want big healing then it feels a bit inefficient given the amount of Ki you need to sink in. If you just want the option of picking up someone from unconscious then I would be tempted by a dip of another class for healing word or even a feat and get your subclass back for something else.

I mean I guess if you wanted to be able to pick up those zero hp allies AND you were at a table with no feats and no multiclass then I could see it.


Then I looked at it again. Its... kind of like I thought, but better. Sure the healing is modest but if you want to be a healer then your fulfillment of your role is going to be determined by how often you get to do your thing... the number of turns on which you can heal as a mercy monk will actually be quite high due to short rest recovery. I could see this really shining on a Gritty Realism variant.

And at level 6 where you start to clear up conditions pretty effectively as well I can see you leaning into the healer role pretty hard. The scaling up of the martial arts die is a pretty slow improvement though.

My gripe is that it overlaps too much with the paladin, which is just a better base class. Smiting, healing, removal of conditions... paladins with their spells and lay on hands and even some channel divinity all overlap with the Mercy monk.

the healing isn't all that bad really. at low levels its like having a touch ranged healing word for .5 ki. depending on how a table handles rest that can mean a lot of HP recover. won't be matching a life cleric but it works wonder in tandem with such a caster. I see a lot of features in Tasha's that are directed at increasing or stretching out resources. With spell slot recover (CD alt features for pally and cleric, wild magic barb, and spell ring infusion) being more common the value of monk who can save a few slots over a day could have a big change in how the party plays. I personal play with a lot of status conditions being tossed around so getting lesser restoration and a little heal at a basement cost and good action economy will even make a pally jealous.