What is the most powerful level 1 fighting build?

[Melcar]

Ok, so I'm looking for help creating some level 1 minions.

They are soldiers, in a military/mercenary organization and currently hold the rank of enlisted/private. There are 30 of them that are grouped into squats of 10 with a level 2 sergeant as squat-leader.

I'm looking for is the best possible level 1 fighting build out there.

The rules are:
1) Race must be from PHB
2) Alignment must be LE
3) Can use content from all official publications, including Dragon and Dungeon Magazines
4) Normal NPC WBL
5) Uses Standard Array for stats.

So far I am looking into the variant fighters from Dragon Magazine, and possibly crusader from ToB, but I'm wondering if there might not be something better?


Thanks!

[AvatarVecna]

Paladin, under very specific circumstances.

[denthor]

Build 9,000 different ways play each then report back to us.

Maybe in the process one of them will be fun to play, but not the most powerful.

Oh I forgot you still may not know the most powerful because the dice randomize the character.

So maybe play them in the same spot 25 to 50 each. Then report back.

The build does not matter. I built a whip and net fighter with a halberd back up she was trip master. Played her from 1st level to 6th fighter/4 thief/4 mage. Had a blast she was not powerful but really versatile. Ended up with a dark vision complex she took mage to ensure she could cast dark vision, use the wand of dark vision and brewed potions of dark vision. My party mostly human kept going to the underdark. She was the only one that said, maybe it would be a good idea to see down there.

Spent over 10,000 gold on dark vision things. The party never repaid her.

[Anthrowhale]

We did a level 1 adaptive wizard vs. adaptive fighter challenge, ending up with this wizard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24650205&postcount=400) as the winner with initiative +10, AC 20, effectively 15hp, Power Word: Pain, 2 Riding Dogs, and a light crossbow. I think it works for you, except that you'll need to substitute human for a strongheart halfling, horse for one riding dog, train the horse for war, adjust the stat array, and you'll have much more gold available to spend.

Crusaders are also potentially very solid because of their ability to heal perpetually.

Clerics can also be quite tough when built well.

A trick for spellcasters is: take arcane mastery and buy a scroll with a high level spell. You can afford a 3rd level spell. 1 fireball per foot soldier adds up fast.

Another trick is: buy a warbeast according to the prices given in the warbeast template.

[liquidformat]

By standard array do you mean the non elite 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8?

Anyways I think:

LE Human Crusader 13 STR 10 DEX 9 INT 8 WIS 12 CHA
the 30 should have a mix between Martial Spirit, Iron Guard's Glare, Leading the Charge stances, with one or two with Bolstering Voice. Each of these stances has its place, probably only a couple Leading the Charge just because charging isn't as common.
Maneuvers: Crusader's Strike, Leading the Attack, Stone Bones, Vanguard Strike, and either Charging Minotaur or Douse the Flames. In general Douse the Flames is less useful at level 1.
Feats: Death Devotion, Wild Cohort. Death Devotion is amazing for a level 1 character for one minute all of your attacks have a DC 11 chance of instantly killing your opponent. For Wild Cohort I would suggest Riding Dog, Dromedary Camel, or Heavy Horse. If you choose Dromedary Camel or Heavy Horse pay to get the warbeast template added; also magebred is a great addition to all three.
Alternatively Replace one of your feats with Hidden Talent (Expansion).
So we have 900gp to play with Greatsword (50gp), Magebred Riding Dog (300gp), Riding Dog (150gp), Magebred Heavy War Horse (800gp), Magebred Heavy horse (400gp), Heavy Horse (200gp), Breastplate (200gp), AFB not sure what camel pricing is, Medium Breastplate Barding (400gp), Large Scalemail barding (400gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (10-20gp)

With Magebred riding dog: Greatsword (50gp), Magebred Riding Dog (300gp), Breastplate (200gp), Scalemail barding (200gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (20gp), 130gp left over
With Magebred Horse: Greatsword (50gp), Magebred Horse (400gp), Breastplate (200gp), Large Studded Leather Barding (100gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (20gp), 130gp left over
With no pet: Brute Gauntlets (500gp), Greatsword (50gp), Breastplate (200gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (20gp), 130gp left over

[Doctor Despair]

"Powerful" can mean a lot of things.

What do you want them to be best at?

Are you open to level-adjustment, or do you want them to have ECL 1?

Is there a specific class you want them to use (e.g., specifically fighter or fighter variant), or are you open to anything?

Are you open to infinite/NI tricks?

Are these for NPCs or a PC with leadership of some sort?

[Melcar]

By standard array do you mean the non elite 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8?

Anyways I think:

LE Human Crusader 13 STR 10 DEX 9 INT 8 WIS 12 CHA
the 30 should have a mix between Martial Spirit, Iron Guard's Glare, Leading the Charge stances, with one or two with Bolstering Voice. Each of these stances has its place, probably only a couple Leading the Charge just because charging isn't as common.
Maneuvers: Crusader's Strike, Leading the Attack, Stone Bones, Vanguard Strike, and either Charging Minotaur or Douse the Flames. In general Douse the Flames is less useful at level 1.
Feats: Death Devotion, Wild Cohort. Death Devotion is amazing for a level 1 character for one minute all of your attacks have a DC 11 chance of instantly killing your opponent. For Wild Cohort I would suggest Riding Dog, Dromedary Camel, or Heavy Horse. If you choose Dromedary Camel or Heavy Horse pay to get the warbeast template added; also magebred is a great addition to all three.
Alternatively Replace one of your feats with Hidden Talent (Expansion).
So we have 900gp to play with Greatsword (50gp), Magebred Riding Dog (300gp), Riding Dog (150gp), Magebred Heavy War Horse (800gp), Magebred Heavy horse (400gp), Heavy Horse (200gp), Breastplate (200gp), AFB not sure what camel pricing is, Medium Breastplate Barding (400gp), Large Scalemail barding (400gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (10-20gp)

With Magebred riding dog: Greatsword (50gp), Magebred Riding Dog (300gp), Breastplate (200gp), Scalemail barding (200gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (20gp), 130gp left over
With Magebred Horse: Greatsword (50gp), Magebred Horse (400gp), Breastplate (200gp), Large Studded Leather Barding (100gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (20gp), 130gp left over
With no pet: Brute Gauntlets (500gp), Greatsword (50gp), Breastplate (200gp), Random stuff for travel and adventuring (20gp), 130gp left over



Wow... that was a huge amount of amazing stuff! Thanks!

My hope was to make them exactly the same, because that would make it a lot easier, because I would then not have to keep so much track on who specifically died or who has done what with what ability... but I do very much see how having them all have different things increases the strength and overall utility... exactly the reason why a squat of soldiers usually have different role within the squat IRL... its just going to mean more paperwork for me... which I guess is ok.



"Powerful" can mean a lot of things.

What do you want them to be best at?

Are you open to level-adjustment, or do you want them to have ECL 1?

Is there a specific class you want them to use (e.g., specifically fighter or fighter variant), or are you open to anything?

Are you open to infinite/NI tricks?

Are these for NPCs or a PC with leadership of some sort?

These are indeed the followers of a PC with Leadership. Secondly, I'm fairly open to all sorts of things at this point. Lets see where it leads, and in the end I'll make fit. They must be ECL 1. At this point I'm looking at the Crusader primarily, because Iron Guard's Glare looks like a great thing to give them. The sergeants will probably get Martial Spirit.

Their main purpose is to be the rank and file of a army/mercenary/militia organization, so guard duty, paroling, and fighting in skirmishes will be their main objective. They are not expected to participate in dungeon crawling, or boss fights, but might join the party as camp guards, patrols and that kind of work... however, if larger battles will happen, they will join as a platoon. Which also means I'm building level 2 sergeants and a level 3 lieutenant. However, the level 3 will probably be some sort of buffer... I'm thinking Marshal or Bard thing...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Pun-Pun is the most powerful level 1 character ever devised. Infinite power is hard to argue with.

If you don't want Pun-Pun but want the highest potential in the least time, wizard 1 can get you to epic within days:


At level 1, take a level of wizard and Precocious Apprentice (Ray of Stupidity), along with Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Forceful_Magic). Kill some small animals for XP, then make a few 0-level scrolls of ray of stupidity via Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic. Now go find some elephants. Knock 'em out with ray of stupidity; it's a ranged touch attack which will hardly ever miss, and the chance of hitting and not insta-K.O.ing them is completely nil. You should be able to level up to mid-levels in just a few rounds (one level per elephant, and one elephant per round). Once you have access to planar binding, call up a genie and use a wish for a thought bottle that's attuned to you and is filled with enough XP to get you to whatever level you want.

Alternatively, wish for an empty thought bottle, and use Extra Spell to get greater restoration and curse of lycanthropy (https://dndtools.net/spells/complete-divine--56/curse-of-lycanthropy--719/). Cast curse of lycanthropy on yourself for a high HD lycanthropy strain (such as elephantitis), hit yourself with some negative levels (waiting long enough to make them permanent), then cast greater restoration on yourself. This will reset your XP to incorporate the LA and RHD of yourself with the lycanthropy strain. Now store your XP in the thought bottle, break curse of lycanthropy via break enchantment and restore your previous XP level from the thought bottle. This will allow you to gain a ton of levels very fast, and it's repeatable!

You could also take Mercantile Background (PGtF), Noble Birth [Dun#92], and other feats that grant gp at level 1 when taken, then use your money to craft a bunch of alchemical items at 1/3 price, then sell and use that money and Mercantile Background for a discount to use all that money to buy a titanic war beast magebred fruit bat, or something. They're relatively cheap, such that having a 26 HD Gargantuan pet is surprisingly affordable.

[A.A.King]

Halfling Fighters with Swarmfighting and Weapon Finesse. Take the Hit-And-Run tactics ACF from Drow of the Underdark.

You get two soldiers to a square, making it much easier to surround an opponent and for every other swarmfighter threatening the opponent they get a +1 to ATK

Now, if racial variants of PHB races are in play you could make them Strongheart Halflings for the extra feat and also give them Phalanx Fighting and buy them Darkwood Heavy Shields (has to be Darkwood because Weapon Finesse works best with shields that have no ACP). Phalanx Fighting would give them an extra +3 to AC as long as they are within 5 feet of a similar character and because they are using the buddy system and sharing squares that should be always.

[u-b]

These are indeed the followers of a PC with Leadership.
Then two main questions you need to answer are:
1. Whom that PC will be fighting?
2. Where it is to occur?

If he is fighting monsters in the dungeons, expendable guys with Iron Guard's Glare might be as good as it gets. If, instead, he fights in the open, there are other options, wich might be significantly better, depending on the opposition and whether said PC considers sponsoring the lads with heavy warhorses, bane arrows and the like.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Take all spellcasters and have them craft alchemical items for you.

Level 1 characters aren't very strong, and if any of them die, you take a permanent hit to your Leadership score, so leave them out of any direct fighting.

[u-b]

As for the sergeants, go with DFI bards of all different elements. Can't go wrong with that, whether those elements would be stacking or not. Oh, ****, LE! Maybe they are all recent converts to your ideology. Would not be able to progress as bards, but would be still functional.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

As for the sergeants, go with DFI bards of all different elements. Can't go wrong with that, whether those elements would be stacking or not.Bard with a dip into marshal would be a good idea. +Cha to all sorts of stuff, depending on which options they pick. Having +all the energy types to attack, +X to attack and damage (for a regular bard), and +Cha to everything (because you have several bard/marshal 1s, each choosing a different option) is pretty nice. Then have everyone using a long ranged weapon to stay relatively safe, and at least one higher level BFC spellcaster designed to funnel enemies into a small area (to prevent them from going wherever they want) and one higher level character designed to intercept enemies that manage to make it through the BFC (such as a Large warblade wielding a reach weapon that also has Improved Trip) could let everyone fight for you with minimal risk. Not NO risk, so you'll probably be taking permanent hits to your Leadership score regularly, but you'll last longer than otherwise.

[edit]
As for the sergeants, go with DFI bards of all different elements. Can't go wrong with that, whether those elements would be stacking or not. Oh, ****, LE! Maybe they are all recent converts to your ideology. Would not be able to progress as bards, but would be still functional.Nothing about being LE prevents Dragonfire Inspiration followers. They could be NE bards.

[edit 2] Have all the low level archers with minions of their own, like via the Wild Cohort feat. A swarm of riding dogs getting +6d6 energy damage and +Cha to everything would be pretty great. Standard action to ranged attack, move action to direct their pets to swarm enemies downed by Improved Trip (and probably Combat Reflexes and maybe [Great] Cleave), and you have a force to be reckoned with. Luckily, the pets dying won't trigger your Leadership penalties, while the pet owners arch (what's the verb form of "archery"?) from the back row.

[edit 3] Maybe a dragonfire adept for fast healing on everyone?

[Melcar]

Then two main questions you need to answer are:
1. Whom that PC will be fighting?
2. Where it is to occur?

If he is fighting monsters in the dungeons, expendable guys with Iron Guard's Glare might be as good as it gets. If, instead, he fights in the open, there are other options, wich might be significantly better, depending on the opposition and whether said PC considers sponsoring the lads with heavy warhorses, bane arrows and the like.

The PC, whose followers this is about, does what ever a normal adventurer does, however, the followers main tasks are: guard duty, patrolling and skirmish battles. So there is very little chance they will ever be dungeon crawling or participate in boss fights... they might, but that would be an unusual case indeed.

Most likely, their fighting will take place in either a rural or town-like environs. And perhaps, if a larger conflict evolves, an open battlefield. That battle could naturally take place in any environment from desert to jungle, but meadows or fields or light forest is probably the most realistic.

Again they are NPCs, but still, no matter how insignificant their tasks might be, I want them to be as proficient in it as possible.

Also, my DM is fairly lenient with the whole loosing followers part. Unless I cast them into something where I'm essentially leading them to slaughter, a certain amount of danger is expected of soldiers, therefore a single death is not equal to -1 leadership. Also, for it to be a penalty, future followers would need to know that I have lost followers or that serving me is particularity dangerous. Its only a penalty when attrackting new followers not keeping the ones you have. And I can assure you, whenever I do loose a follower, its kept secret, so new followers have no clue what they sighn up for!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So, your best bet, I think, is what I suggested above. A number of bard X/marshal 1s, with Dragonfire Inspiration (of different energy types) and one normal bard, one BFC-specialized caster, preferably with access to polymorph to use on one higher level melee beast designed specifically for additional BFC, such as a crusader 1 (for healing)/warblade with a reach weapon, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and (Great?) Cleave. The bard/marshals buff everyone, the caster funnels enemies toward the melee brute (and polymorphs and otherwise buffs him for additional melee power, versatility, defenses, and movement modes, as needed), and the melee brute uses his turns to get into position, hit things with his maneuvers, and then AoO-trips the daylights out of everything in his (rather excessive) reach.

Everyone else is a low-level archer that benefits from all the bard/marshal buffage, and they all have Wild Cohort for a riding dog or wolf that also benefits from said buffage. The archers can hunker down behind the BFC monsters while their dogs/wolves/whatever can go attack all the enemies that have been tripped, dealing a ton of bard-inspired damage in the process.

The question remains, however, what class works best for the aforesaid low-level archers? Fighters would gain bonus feats. Druids would gain an extra animal companion and BFC/healing/buffing spells. Initiators are great in melee and would have a ton of options there, but they don't make good archers due to lacking ranged weapon proficiency. Artificers would be able to enhance their own weaponry for cheap/free, and they could make alchemical items.

Hmm. How about artificers and/or druids focusing on making alchemical items in their spare time, then using a gnome calculus to hurl them with a 50'/x10 range? It's a ranged touch, so being Small and having a decent Dex would mean the nonproficiency penalties are far less crippling.

[liquidformat]

So, your best bet, I think, are what I suggested above. A number of bard X/marshal 1s, with Dragonfire Inspiration (of different energy types) and one normal bard, one BFC-specialized caster, preferably with access to polymorph to use on one higher level melee beast designed specifically for additional BFC, such as a crusader 1 (for healing)/warblade with a reach weapon, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and (Great?) Cleave. The bard/marshals buff everyone, the caster funnels enemies toward the melee brute (and polymorphs and otherwise buffs him for additional melee power, versatility, defenses, and movement modes, as needed), and the melee brute uses his turns to get into position, hit things with his maneuvers, and then AoO-trips the daylights out of everything in his (rather excessive) reach.

Everyone else is a low-level archer that benefits from all the bard/marshal buffage, and they all have Wild Cohort for a riding dog or wolf that also benefits from said buffage. The archers can hunker down behind the BFC monsters while their dogs/wolves/whatever can go attack all the enemies that have been tripped, dealing a ton of bard-inspired damage in the process.

The question remains, however, what class works best for the aforesaid low-level archers? Fighters would gain bonus feats. Druids would gain an extra animal companion and BFC/healing/buffing spells. Initiators are great in melee and would have a ton of options there, but they don't make good archers due to lacking ranged weapon proficiency. Artificers would be able to enhance their own weaponry for cheap/free, and they could make alchemical items.

Hmm. How about artificers and/or druids focusing on making alchemical items in their spare time, then using a gnome calculus to hurl them with a 50'/x10 range? It's a ranged touch, so being Small and having a decent Dex would mean the nonproficiency penalties are far less crippling.

The big issue I see with these ranged build ideas is you really need Precise Shot for this to be worth while which limits you to Human/ Strongheart Halfling Fighter with Wild cohort Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot or Human/ Strongheart Halfling Druid with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. In this case the fighters do more damage (better weapon choice and slight advantage in BAB) and should have more powerful animal helper since they have access to magebred. Whereas the druids do get spells which depending on which books you have access to could be pretty good (entangle, Babau Blinding Spittle, animal companion buffs...). I would probably go with the fighter but the druids are comparable.

On the other hand the Artificer couldn't pull this off, gnome calculus is an exotic weapon so you would be looking at 4 feats to pull it off which won't work unless we are playing with flaws. Plus using the gnome calculus isn't a great idea to be tossing into a group melee because of friendly fire.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The big issue I see with these ranged build ideas is you really need Precise Shot for this to be worth while which limits you to Human/ Strongheart Halfling Fighter with Wild cohort Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot or Human/ Strongheart Halfling Druid with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. In this case the fighters do more damage (better weapon choice and slight advantage in BAB) and should have more powerful animal helper since they have access to magebred. Whereas the druids do get spells which depending on which books you have access to could be pretty good (entangle, Babau Blinding Spittle, animal companion buffs...). I would probably go with the fighter but the druids are comparable.

On the other hand the Artificer couldn't pull this off, gnome calculus is an exotic weapon so you would be looking at 4 feats to pull it off which won't work unless we are playing with flaws. Plus using the gnome calculus isn't a great idea to be tossing into a group melee because of friendly fire.Firing into melee is a -4 penalty, which, yes, is pretty heavy. However, any shots can be taken prior to siccing their dogs on enemies, using tanglefoot bags, flashbangs (ie, eggshell dust grenades and similar), thunderstones, etc to further hobble enemies.

Given how much reach the melee brute will have, I doubt any enemies will be able to close with him before being tripped.

So fire waves of alchemical items at anyone standing to make their lives more difficult, and sicc dogs at anyone tripped by the melee brute using their move actions. They don't have to fire every single round, and even those that do are making ranged touch attacks while boosted by a bard granting a bonus through inspire courage and marshals granting +Cha to their attack rolls. Ironically, the higher level monsters you're fighting, the easier they tend to be hit, due to size-penalties and lower Dex scores. Just make sure that everyone is working well together and not doing dumb things like firing into melee unnecessarily, and you're good.

[lylsyly]

I would be interested in knowing exactly how many of each level of follower the PC has. There have been good suggestions so far but since drag mag is allowed ...

Dragon #335 p. 87. Totem Druid gets to wild shape into a bear at level one with a (pay for war beast) bear for a companion plus 1st level druid casting. Since you assume the bear's physical stats you can keep them low and concentrate on WIS for bonus spells. For this any PHB race will do.

Instead of thinking of squads and platoons think of teams. 4 or 6 Totem Druids and their Team leader, a Draconic Human Dragon Fire Adept (ECL 2) with Improved Initiative and Entangling Exhalation. Spend part of your morning routine using the Endure Exposure Invocation on your teammates and their ACs. Breathe every round keeping enemies slowed and let the bears demolish them.

Definately need a team or two (or squad in this case) of archers to go after any enemy casters, say 8 halfling druids with (pay for warbeast) riding dogs for companions led by a cleric 2 for a nine man squad.

Any level 3's you have make Bards and defacto "platoon" leaders (I don't like Marshal here because of the limited range of the Aura).

Any level 4's you may have make Wizards and "company" commanders.

Another similiar route for the melee troops ...

A "squad" of 4 level 1 Totem Druids as above, 2 level 1 Warmages, and a level 2 Marshal as squad leader. 2 squads and a level 3 Bard as a "platoon" leader.

just a thought ;-)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You may also consider using one of the higher level minions as an initiator focusing on White Raven maneuvers. If he can give everyone additional actions each round, he'd be a force multiplier of huge proportions. The archery squads fire alchemical packets at enemies, then use their move actions to command their dogs to attack during their turns. Then later in the round, the White Raven initiator uses his actions to give all the dogs (as well as the melee brute) additional charge attacks. All of which are boosted by the bard/marshals.

And the more WR initiators there are, the more they multiply the melee capacity of the group.

[Maat Mons]

If you want people to serve as town guards, they should have max ranks in Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot. Max ranks in Gather Information and Search wouldn't hurt either.

Bodyguard Fighter gets all of those except Listen as class skills. But with 2 + Int skill points per level, even with a Human, you'd need Int 12+ to max Gather Information, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot. Or maybe all your guards could have the Nymph's Kiss feat, but hiring a Nymph prostitute to service your entire squad is probably expensive.

Urban Ranger gets all those class skills and plenty of skill points to max them all out. You'd be limited to light armor, but you're not going to successfully chase after a fleeing pickpocket in heavier armor anyway.

Rogue and other similar classes also get all those class skills and get even more skill points. But you wouldn't have proficiency with all Martial weapons or full Base Attack Bonus. There's always the Militia feat though, and Feat Rogue gets a bonus Fighter feat that kind of makes up for having to take it.



If you instead want foot soldiers for an army, skills aren't really going to be important.

Offensively speaking, Whirling-Frenzy Barbarians are pretty good at 1st level. Two attacks every round with a greatsword or greataxe is a lot of potential damage.

Are flaws allowed? If so, DR 7/byeshk is achievable at 1st level.

It might be a little hard to source recruits with a partly-trollish ancestry, but the Troll-Blooded feat is awesome. It pairs well with that Fighter variant that reduces all nonlethal damage you take. There exist feats that give energy resistance too. You'll want to look into mitigating fatigue though.

[liquidformat]

If you want people to serve as town guards, they should have max ranks in Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot. Max ranks in Gather Information and Search wouldn't hurt either.

Bodyguard Fighter gets all of those except Listen as class skills. But with 2 + Int skill points per level, even with a Human, you'd need Int 12+ to max Gather Information, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot. Or maybe all your guards could have the Nymph's Kiss feat, but hiring a Nymph prostitute to service your entire squad is probably expensive.

Urban Ranger gets all those class skills and plenty of skill points to max them all out. You'd be limited to light armor, but you're not going to successfully chase after a fleeing pickpocket in heavier armor anyway.

Rogue and other similar classes also get all those class skills and get even more skill points. But you wouldn't have proficiency with all Martial weapons or full Base Attack Bonus. There's always the Militia feat though, and Feat Rogue gets a bonus Fighter feat that kind of makes up for having to take it.



If you instead want foot soldiers for an army, skills aren't really going to be important.

Offensively speaking, Whirling-Frenzy Barbarians are pretty good at 1st level. Two attacks every round with a greatsword or greataxe is a lot of potential damage.

Are flaws allowed? If so, DR 7/byeshk is achievable at 1st level.

It might be a little hard to source recruits with a partly-trollish ancestry, but the Troll-Blooded feat is awesome. It pairs well with that Fighter variant that reduces all nonlethal damage you take. There exist feats that give energy resistance too. You'll want to look into mitigating fatigue though.

While I agree with you somewhat that if you want the group to work well for guard duty I am not sure they need such over arching skill, just having riding dog or wolf wild cohort already takes care of spot, listen, and track. And while I do like the fact that Bodyguard Fighter gives you skill access I don't like the horrible and narrow bonus feat list it gets saddled with.

Excluding search using human Paladins of Tyranny who trades handle animal for gather information and ride for tumble with wild cohort and Hidden Talent (Expansion) feats with either magebred war wolves or magebred riding dogs should do just fine.

Comically if your DM is comfortable with you customizing the feats and skill points of your magebred riding dogs/ magebred war wolves giving them Martial Study (Counter Charge) gives them access to Sense Motives so you can put your pets in charge of most of the active parts of guard duty plus they would be very effective against any enemies that want to use charging tactics.

[JyP]

Ok, so I'm looking for help creating some level 1 minions.

They are soldiers, in a military/mercenary organization and currently hold the rank of enlisted/private. There are 30 of them that are grouped into squats of 10 with a level 2 sergeant as squat-leader.

I'm looking for is the best possible level 1 fighting build out there.

A few questions :
- do you want level 1 or CR 1 soldiers ? (edit: as you want races from the PHB, I guess no monsters - but CR 1 is interesting for NPC classes like Warrior) (already answered, ECL 1)
- do you want the best level 1 squad or individual level 1 soldiers who will fight one-on-one ?

Because I remember devising a squad of kobolds leaded by hobgoblins which killed a level 6 PC with the right tactics.

[JyP]

Because I remember devising a squad of kobolds leaded by hobgoblins which killed a level 6 PC with the right tactics.

In fact, the main trick I used is in Player's Handbook II, with teamwork benefits :

Missile Volley
Task Leader Prerequisite: Far Shot and Precise Shot.
Team Member Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot.

Benefit: Every member of the team who readies an action to fire a missile weapon when the task leader does gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to the number of team members firing. The task leader also qualifies for the bonus, even though she did not ready an action. All these attacks must be made against the same target.

[Melcar]

If you want people to serve as town guards, they should have max ranks in Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot. Max ranks in Gather Information and Search wouldn't hurt either.

Bodyguard Fighter gets all of those except Listen as class skills. But with 2 + Int skill points per level, even with a Human, you'd need Int 12+ to max Gather Information, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot. Or maybe all your guards could have the Nymph's Kiss feat, but hiring a Nymph prostitute to service your entire squad is probably expensive.

Urban Ranger gets all those class skills and plenty of skill points to max them all out. You'd be limited to light armor, but you're not going to successfully chase after a fleeing pickpocket in heavier armor anyway.

Rogue and other similar classes also get all those class skills and get even more skill points. But you wouldn't have proficiency with all Martial weapons or full Base Attack Bonus. There's always the Militia feat though, and Feat Rogue gets a bonus Fighter feat that kind of makes up for having to take it.



If you instead want foot soldiers for an army, skills aren't really going to be important.

Offensively speaking, Whirling-Frenzy Barbarians are pretty good at 1st level. Two attacks every round with a greatsword or greataxe is a lot of potential damage.

Are flaws allowed? If so, DR 7/byeshk is achievable at 1st level.

It might be a little hard to source recruits with a partly-trollish ancestry, but the Troll-Blooded feat is awesome. It pairs well with that Fighter variant that reduces all nonlethal damage you take. There exist feats that give energy resistance too. You'll want to look into mitigating fatigue though.

Their primary job will be to guard the manor/estate of the noble lord. Their secondary job will be boarder patrolling the estate grounds, and finally enter into skirmished or large scale battles under the banner of the lord they are serving.

That why I called for the PC races in PHB, because having some monstrous humanoid in full dress uniform at parades when the local duke arrives is just not the way to go...



I would be interested in knowing exactly how many of each level of follower the PC has. There have been good suggestions so far but since drag mag is allowed ...

Dragon #335 p. 87. Totem Druid gets to wild shape into a bear at level one with a (pay for war beast) bear for a companion plus 1st level druid casting. Since you assume the bear's physical stats you can keep them low and concentrate on WIS for bonus spells. For this any PHB race will do.

Instead of thinking of squads and platoons think of teams. 4 or 6 Totem Druids and their Team leader, a Draconic Human Dragon Fire Adept (ECL 2) with Improved Initiative and Entangling Exhalation. Spend part of your morning routine using the Endure Exposure Invocation on your teammates and their ACs. Breathe every round keeping enemies slowed and let the bears demolish them.

Definately need a team or two (or squad in this case) of archers to go after any enemy casters, say 8 halfling druids with (pay for warbeast) riding dogs for companions led by a cleric 2 for a nine man squad.

Any level 3's you have make Bards and defacto "platoon" leaders (I don't like Marshal here because of the limited range of the Aura).

Any level 4's you may have make Wizards and "company" commanders.

Another similiar route for the melee troops ...

A "squad" of 4 level 1 Totem Druids as above, 2 level 1 Warmages, and a level 2 Marshal as squad leader. 2 squads and a level 3 Bard as a "platoon" leader.

just a thought ;-)

The lord has a leadership score of 17 so 30 level 1 followers.


A few questions :
- do you want level 1 or CR 1 soldiers ? (edit: as you want races from the PHB, I guess no monsters - but CR 1 is interesting for NPC classes like Warrior) (already answered, ECL 1)
- do you want the best level 1 squad or individual level 1 soldiers who will fight one-on-one ?

Because I remember devising a squad of kobolds leaded by hobgoblins which killed a level 6 PC with the right tactics.

Hmm that's actually a great question... I didn't really think of making that distinction... Well both really he he. No but its not like they only work in formation, they patrol the walls 2 and 2, they are 4 at each gate house, so it cant be that they only function if they stand in battle formations. So probably 60/40 solo.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You could make the entire contingent from kobolds and have them trap the area they're defending. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?155518-Tucker-s-Kobolds-PEACH-3-5)* Remember, this is their home turf! They have to defend it! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofos7Yce3do)




*Read the whole thread.

[Particle_Man]

If you want ranged attackers maybe warlocks with eldritch spear and point blank shot and far shot. That way you get touch attacks, which might mitigate the problems of low level minions actually hitting anything that the leader would encounter.

[lylsyly]

The lord has a leadership score of 17 so 30 level 1 followers.

So 30 level 1, 3 level 2, 1 level 3 and 1 level 4 (I'll leave the cohort alone).


Their primary job will be to guard the manor/estate of the noble lord. Their secondary job will be boarder patrolling the estate grounds, and finally enter into skirmished or large scale battles under the banner of the lord they are serving.

You said earlier that some would be walking the wall. That is a job for archers. So 1 squad of archers. 10 L1 human fighters with Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Far Shot led by a Fighter 1 (same feats)/Marshall 1 motivating Dexterity. Using JyP's Volley Fire they will be more effective than you might think (included Precise Shot for when they do have to fire into melee).

For the Gate Guards you would have a squad of L1 fighters with animal cohort, improved init and power attack led be a fighter 1/marshal 1 motivating strength. Since riding dogs are mostly as effective as a L1 fighter your actual strength is basically doubled.

For the Border Patrol either my Totem Druids as stated above or simply druids with riding dog companions. The Totem Druids would be far more effective.


That why I called for the PC races in PHB, because having some monstrous humanoid in full dress uniform at parades when the local duke arrives is just not the way to go...

It's a fantasy game! What could be cooler/more impressive than the local duke visiting and the street being lined with the archers/guards with their riding dogs/border patrol with their companions with ALL of them decked out in their Lord's colors ;-)

That leaves you with a L4 Commander and an L3 Deputy Commander, choice here is do you prefer keeping them mundane (Marshal) or going with caster classes (Bard perhaps). As I said above, there are many things you can do.

just my 2 credits coppers ;-D

edit: Now I have do go design a border estate, lmao.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Troll Blooded (Dragon 319) gives Regeneration 1, which is overcome by fire and acid damage. It's a 1st level only Greyhawk regional feat for specific human regions and requires Toughness, so basically human-only even if you can get more than one 1st level feat. You can use lesser Aasimar or Tiefling or Chaond or Zenythri for resistance to either acid or fire, with the half-humans and humanlike races variant in RoD p150 to count as humans and qualify for the regional feat. If you can somehow get it on a Warforged, even better.

Crusaders that all have Iron Guard's Glare give everyone a -4 to hit. If they're Warforged they can get Adamantine Body and use a shield with their natural slam attack that adds 1.5x Str to damage.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Troll Blooded (Dragon 319) gives Regeneration 1, which is overcome by fire and acid damage. It's a 1st level only Greyhawk regional feat for specific human regions and requires Toughness, so basically human-only even if you can get more than one 1st level feat. You can use lesser Aasimar or Tiefling or Chaond or Zenythri for resistance to either acid or fire, with the half-humans and humanlike races variant in RoD p150 to count as humans and qualify for the regional feat. If you can somehow get it on a Warforged, even better.Two flaws for Human Heritage or Human Blood, Toughness, and Troll Blooded?

And warforged can be made out of human parts. Like, use a human skeleton as the base.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Two flaws for Human Heritage or Human Blood, Toughness, and Troll Blooded?

And warforged can be made out of human parts. Like, use a human skeleton as the base.

You don't need Human Heritage, if using the half-humans and humanlike races variant in the sidebar. Lesser Planetouched already get turned into humanoids, and technically every humanoid needs a subtype, so it only makes sense.

[Maat Mons]

The Planar Chasuble soulmeld gives you resistance to Acid 10 if you're Evil, or resistance to Fire 10 if you're Lawful. Not quite sure what happens if you're both Evil and Lawful. The soulmeld was designed for the Incarnate class, which forces you to be neutral on one axis. But you can also get it with Shape Soulmeld, and not have any alignment restrictions.

If your DM rules that Planar Chasuble only gives you the effect for one alignment component, even if you have two non-neutral alignment components, there's still the Flame Cincture soulmeld as an alternate source of resistance to Fire 10. Combine that with the Evil aspect of Planar Chasuble, and you're relatively set by 1st-level standards.

One annoying aspect of Troll-Blooded is that it makes you fatigued in sunlight. The best way be immune to fatigue is with the Tireless feat. Unfortunately, that's a Faurunian Regional feat. And, even if your DM lets you mix material from multiple settings, you can only ever have one Regional feat. Fortunately, the people who wrote Troll-Blooded not only didn't tag it as a Regional feat, but they explicitly tagged it as a General feat. Being a General feat necessarily means it's not a Regional feat, in spite of the fact that it comes from an article purporting to be about Regional feats.

If your DM rules Troll-Blooded as a Regional feat in spite of its own text contradicting this, the only other 1st-level source of immunity to fatigue that comes to mind is ... ugh ... Divine Mind. But I guess dipping one level for the aura of the repose mantle is acceptable.

So, with the more favorable rulings, a LE Human [whatever class] 1 with Toughness, Troll-Blooded, Shape Soulmeld (Planar Chasuble), and Tireless as feats gets you Regeneration, resistance to Acid and Fire 10, and immunity to fatigue. And that's doable with two flaws.

With the less favorable rulings, a [whatever]-Evil Human Divine Mind 1 with the Toughness, Troll-Blooded, Shape Soulmeld (Planar Chasuble) and Shape Soulmeld (Flame Cincture) feats also gets all those things. Still doable with two flaws.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Melcar
That why I called for the PC races in PHB, because having some monstrous humanoid in full dress uniform at parades when the local duke arrives is just not the way to go...

I have to say, the image of a minotaur sergeant standing at ramrod attention in full dress uniform just makes the scene.

[SaltyFiend]

Ok, so I'm looking for help creating some level 1 minions.

They are soldiers, in a military/mercenary organization and currently hold the rank of enlisted/private. There are 30 of them that are grouped into squats of 10 with a level 2 sergeant as squat-leader.

I'm looking for is the best possible level 1 fighting build out there.

The rules are:
1) Race must be from PHB
2) Alignment must be LE
3) Can use content from all official publications, including Dragon and Dungeon Magazines
4) Normal NPC WBL
5) Uses Standard Array for stats.

So far I am looking into the variant fighters from Dragon Magazine, and possibly crusader from ToB, but I'm wondering if there might not be something better?


Thanks!

Just turn them into a troop. A bunch of level 1's on their own aren't dangerous, but a 30 man troop with 30d10 HD and 5d6 auto-damage per turn will put the fear of god in your players.

That said, I would only do that if your players had readily and easily accessible use of stuff like fireball. Otherwise, I would spread out their class levels into stuff like a few clerics, fighters mostly, a ranger or two with favored enemy against one of the PC's & a bard. Definitely give them a bard.

[GLW]

My thinking is that it doesn't actually have to be too fancy. Human Gendarme cavalier can get an animal companion mount and build up the three staple mounted options (Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge- 1 rank of ride required). For the lance itself, I suggest using the Heirloom Weapon Trait on the lance you pick up to get a +2 to trip as well, though Ancestral Weapon (Lance) is also a solid choice (can get a +1 to all attack rolls with the weapon and it's paid for). Point buy up STR as much as you can, DEX being a secondary priority for initiative purposes and ride checks should something target the mount. I suggest the Rich Parents trait to also afford Exemplar Weapon Salve to make the weapon masterwork if you opt for Heirloom Weapon.


The damage output for a level 1 character speaks for itself. You get triple damage anywhere you can charge and do so with a single, accurate attack (+1 to hit from high ground against medium creatures, +2 against anything via charge bonus, potential other bonuses to hit from your order). Even with 16 +2 racial strength, this still equals out to 3d8+18 or a minimum of 21 damage, enough to kill pretty much any other level 1 character and put a dent in a lot of baddies. Ride-by attack potentially lets you set up another charge while avoiding AoOs from the target itself (presumably the most dangerous thing there if you open with a charge on it). I'd invest the rest of your spare money into barding for the mount if you can (or things that improve your own survivability). Last trait can net you reactionary for better initiative. Sooner you go, sooner the most dangerous thing is reeling in pain or dead.


Cavalier offers advantages over fighter even if you used that class to get the same three feats. You get an order for challenge which offers both damage and potentially to-hit bonuses depending on the selected order. It has a fully fledged animal companion which is combat ready and probably does better damage in a pinch than anything you could buy, and it's free to replace with some time if things go awry and you live in a low-money game. Heirloom weapon +2 to trip and a reach weapon spare you from AoOs against anything without reach and give you viable combat utility when you find yourself unable to charge.

You obviously still gotta watch out for spell saves but what level 1 martial doesn't? I think this set up would demand attention. It's not limited by rounds of rage per day or spell slots, it functions well enough outside of its ideal environment (open fields), provides action economy (animal companion), and not to mention.... it gets more skill ranks than fighter and the same HD.

[Melcar]

My thinking is that it doesn't actually have to be too fancy. Human Gendarme cavalier can get an animal companion mount and build up the three staple mounted options (Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge- 1 rank of ride required). For the lance itself, I suggest using the Heirloom Weapon Trait on the lance you pick up to get a +2 to trip as well, though Ancestral Weapon (Lance) is also a solid choice (can get a +1 to all attack rolls with the weapon and it's paid for). Point buy up STR as much as you can, DEX being a secondary priority for initiative purposes and ride checks should something target the mount. I suggest the Rich Parents trait to also afford Exemplar Weapon Salve to make the weapon masterwork if you opt for Heirloom Weapon.


The damage output for a level 1 character speaks for itself. You get triple damage anywhere you can charge and do so with a single, accurate attack (+1 to hit from high ground against medium creatures, +2 against anything via charge bonus, potential other bonuses to hit from your order). Even with 16 +2 racial strength, this still equals out to 3d8+18 or a minimum of 21 damage, enough to kill pretty much any other level 1 character and put a dent in a lot of baddies. Ride-by attack potentially lets you set up another charge while avoiding AoOs from the target itself (presumably the most dangerous thing there if you open with a charge on it). I'd invest the rest of your spare money into barding for the mount if you can (or things that improve your own survivability). Last trait can net you reactionary for better initiative. Sooner you go, sooner the most dangerous thing is reeling in pain or dead.


Cavalier offers advantages over fighter even if you used that class to get the same three feats. You get an order for challenge which offers both damage and potentially to-hit bonuses depending on the selected order. It has a fully fledged animal companion which is combat ready and probably does better damage in a pinch than anything you could buy, and it's free to replace with some time if things go awry and you live in a low-money game. Heirloom weapon +2 to trip and a reach weapon spare you from AoOs against anything without reach and give you viable combat utility when you find yourself unable to charge.

You obviously still gotta watch out for spell saves but what level 1 martial doesn't? I think this set up would demand attention. It's not limited by rounds of rage per day or spell slots, it functions well enough outside of its ideal environment (open fields), provides action economy (animal companion), and not to mention.... it gets more skill ranks than fighter and the same HD.

From whence is that class? I can't seem to find any other that one from Complete Warrior!

[Maat Mons]

It's from Pathfinder.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by GLW
Human Gendarme cavalier


Originally Posted by Maat Mons
It's from Pathfinder.

And, as it happens, this is perfect for my parallel thread here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625179-Strongest-Level-1-Combat-Build-in-Pathfinder).

[Melcar]

It's from Pathfinder.

Ahh... thats out of bounds then...

[Demidos]

Just a suggestion, as a DM, managing 10 independent level 1 builds sounds like a nightmare, especially if they're not really that critical to the campaign. My suggestion would be to make the squad a "mage soldier squad", where each soldier is a combat sorcerer (Sorcerer ACF, lose 1 spell slot/known per day, gain light armor without arcane spell failure chance).

Then you can have a single soldier template: 8 HP, Studded Leather Armor, One set of saves, etc., standardized crossbow, and feats (any two you want, like combat expertise+bluff (Make foes flatfooted) or dreadful wrath+menacing demeanor + unnatural aura trait (see the fear handbook)).

Each soldier will also have a specific spell that they have mastered that they provide to the squad. Maybe one will have charm, one will have grease, one will have feather fall, one has color spray. When the squad comes together, they'll have a truly powerful amount of versatility, enough to challenge much higher level opponents. With enough soldiers using intimidate they can make their enemies flee or leave them at a disadvantage.

The second benefit is if you need to bring in new soldiers, it's literally a matter of picking a new first level spell out of the book, coming up with a name+personality quirk for the soldier, then you're done.

Example:
Cedrus, "Charm Person", Kinda sleazy but dependable in a fight.
Maia, "Grease", Clever and likes disarming or tripping opponents using grease.

Those two soldiers have the same stat lines, and were generated in less than 10 seconds each, but feel very different in terms of personality and playstyle. The spell gives them a lot of oomph in terms of uniqueness and versatility.

-----------------------
Edit: Bonus, I would put a 8 HP sorcerer with intimidate locking, color spray, and a crossbow that leaves foes shaken every time it attacks as a strong contender for a strong 1st level build. Each soldier also can summon a familiar, which is a huge boon in terms of scouting,communication (ravens speak common), action economy (carrying potions to wounded allies or dropping bags of caltrops), distractions, and has hundreds of other uses. I'd suggest a common familiar for all soldiers (a raven?), with perhaps one or two soldiers having a unique familiar as part of their personality. Resist the urge to change the soldier template too much -- its not necessary to creating interesting characters, and it will give you a huge workload which you could have spent on designing the rest of the campaign.