Choosing 4th level spells when material components are hard to find

[Jay R]

I'm fairly new to 3.5e, and don't know the spells that well, so I could use some help.

My elven wizard just hit seventh level. He is an elven generalist wizard, so he gets three new spells.

The difficult part is that the party is currently trapped on a tropical island, so he can't find unusual spell components either now or in the near future.

So what three fourth level spells would you choose, that have either no material component, or a very common one?

He has the Fiery Burst reserve feat, so at least one of the three spells should have the Fire descriptor. My current plan is to use Blast of Flame, unless somebody can suggest a better one.

[By the way, he's not a great build. He was supposed to be a one-shot character at third level, so I built him to be an elven archer with magical help. His great moment early on was breaking off the arrowhead off an arrow, and then using truestrike to defeat a vampire with a wooden stake through his heart. Now I need to develop him from a build that was built to work for a one-shot, not to grow. I'm not complaining; I'm enjoying the challenge. But facing the challenge includes doing research, by consulting you.]



Finally, the DM doesn't really like Reserve Feats, so I'm considering asking him if he would like me to trade it out for Eschew Materials or Fell Weaken. So go ahead and also suggest spells that have material components that are hard to find, but cost no more than 1 gold piece.

Thanks for your help.

[Troacctid]

Flame sands (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20021120a) is a very powerful fire spell, and it is verbal only. That's what I would recommend.

Dimension door is another rock-solid pick that you can't really go wrong with. And if you're stuck on an island, Leomund's secure shelter will provide the comfort you're missing at the cost of some rocks, sand, water, splinters, and crushed lime as material components, all of which should be plentiful in this environment. (Limestone commonly forms in shallow ocean waters, according to Google, and it creates lime when heated.) Alternatively, celestial fortress (CoV) does away with secure shelter's material component, but includes a sacrifice component of 1d2 Constitution damage instead.

[Jay R]

Oops. I left out a crucial detail.

The current threat to the universe has derailed interdimensional travel. Bags of Holding can't be trusted, and teleportation spells, including Dimension Door, cannot be trusted.

You are correct that Dimension Door is a great spell -- but one that is not currently usable.

Thanks for the suggestion of Flame Sand -- I'd never seen it before.

[Thurbane]

Relevant question: does your DM not run the rule that if you carry a spell component pouch, you have access to every material component that doesn't have a price?

[Jay R]

Relevant question: does your DM not run the rule that if you carry a spell component pouch, you have access to every material component that doesn't have a price?

No. In 45 years (off-and-on) of D&D, I've never heard of that rule.

I would never run that rule in my group. It eliminates cheap spell components as a factor at all. Wizards really don't need extra advantages; they're powerful enough already.

The general rule in our group is that the last time you were in town, you bought the cheap components for the spells you intended to cast. But my wizard doesn't run around with components for spells he does not know, of a level he cannot cast.

When he reached 5th level, he didn't take Fireball or Haste for that reason. But he searched for and found licorice root, sulfur, and bat guano on the island, and then took them at 6th level.

[denthor]

Fear requires a chicken heart or white feather.

Eschew material would be a good feat to pick up here

Black tentacles requires an octopus or giant squid arm.

Greater invisibility no component

3 nut shells gives you confusion.

[Thurbane]

No. In 45 years (off-and-on) of D&D, I've never heard of that rule.

I would never run that rule in my group. It eliminates cheap spell components as a factor at all. Wizards really don't need extra advantages; they're powerful enough already.

It was introduced in 3E, primarily (I believe) to cut down bookkeeping. I remember my 1E/2E days, and personally I don't miss having a lengthy equipment list of components to track. But I can definitely see where you are coming from - even though it's the default rule, it's not for every group.


A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.

[Biggus]

Relevant question: does your DM not run the rule that if you carry a spell component pouch, you have access to every material component that doesn't have a price?


It was introduced in 3E, primarily (I believe) to cut down bookkeeping. I remember my 1E/2E days, and personally I don't miss having a lengthy equipment list of components to track.

That rule makes sense when you have access to towns and cities on at least a semi-regular basis, as you say it cuts down on a lot of boring bookkeeping. It doesn't make a lot of sense when you're trapped away from civilisation from long periods though...

[denthor]

It was introduced in 3E, primarily (I believe) to cut down bookkeeping. I remember my 1E/2E days, and personally I don't miss having a lengthy equipment list of components to track. But I can definitely see where you are coming from - even though it's the default rule, it's not for every group.


That rule makes sense when you have access to towns and cities on at least a semi-regular basis, as you say it cuts down on a lot of boring bookkeeping. It doesn't make a lot of sense when you're trapped away from civilisation from long periods though...


Eschew materials is the feat that if something is under a gold piece in value you no longer need it at all.

The pouch is a hand wave device for the feat.

[Jay R]

Whether that rule exists or not is not at issue. It doesn't.

Does anybody other than Troacctid and Denthor have any actual help to offer?

Denthor, I've considered confusion; I can probably find three nut shells. But even after the Will save, its results are 50% bad (attack caster, act as normal, or attack nearest).

[I keep wanting to put the extra "e" in your name.]

I won't consider Evard's Black Tentacles unless I find an giant octopus or giant squid first.

Fear is a possibility. I can probably find a white feather.

If my DM lets me switch feats, I may go with Eschew Materials.

Repeat: please suggest spells with no material components, or easily found spell components. Alternatively, in case I get Eschew Materials, please suggest any spell with non-costly material components.

[denthor]

Attack caster would cause someone to take a full movement towards you ignoring all other dangers. Party members when out of movement you can not attack.

Attack nearest including your own friends on my opinion not a bad thing if they damage their friends.

Act normal then reroll.

The extra. e. thing your not the only one

[Calthropstu]

I reccomend overland flight. v,s only. Especially with interdimensional travel blocked, it's hugely useful.
I also reccomend grabbing a couple metamagic feats and using 4th level slots for beefed up lower spells.

[Troacctid]

Alright, let's see what else I can come up with.


Celestial brilliance. I'm actually a big fan of this one—it doesn't really do anything when you're not fighting fiends or undead, but when you are fighting them it can be a major game-changer, and in a lot of campaigns, they're pretty common opponents.
Channeled pyroburst. More really strong fire spells. I like that this one has both a built-in quickened mode and a fireball-but-better mode in the same spell.
Enervation. It's...okay. Good in certain situations. Eh.
Greater invisibility. Strong buff spell. No material component.
Heart of earth. Good for defense. You might say it's rock-solid. Obviously works best if you also have its siblings.
Greater mirror image. Even better defensive spell, probably, given that it's an immediate action.
Orb of fire. Another great fire spell. Very powerful choice in the blasting category. Not as slot-efficient as flame sands, but dazing them is nice.
Slashing dispel. Every wizard needs some dispel effects. If you don't already have dispel magic or arcane turmoil, this can fill that hole.
Trollshape. The poor wizard's polymorph. Unlike polymorph, it has no material component.
Voice of the dragon. Long duration, good bonuses, be a party face.

[Calthropstu]

I also recommend charm monster, phantasmal killer and summon monster 4. (Are summoning spells blocked too? I couldn't tell.)

[liquidformat]

Spell choice really depends on what your party role is, what are you focusing on? Blasting, BFC, buff/debuff, summoning?


That rule makes sense when you have access to towns and cities on at least a semi-regular basis, as you say it cuts down on a lot of boring bookkeeping. It doesn't make a lot of sense when you're trapped away from civilisation from long periods though...

This also begs the questions of how you are adding new spells to your spellbook if you have no downtime in a town/city with access to the alchemical inks you need and wizard colleges or where ever/how ever you are going about getting said spells...

[Maat Mons]

Edit: Ninja-ed

But... if you're stuck on a deserted island, where did your character get the expensive special inks nescessary to scribe these new spells into his spellbook?

I mean, the game doesn't make you shell out the gold for the spells you get at level-up, but that doesn't change the fact that these are actual words written in a book, which had to be writtend with some kind of ink. And it doesn't change the fact that only special inks made with rare and expensive ingreients can successfully be used to record spells in a spellbook.

Ordinarily, you can just walk into any old magic shop and buy the right inks. But your lonely island is far, far away from any magic shops. So how did you get it? Did you make it? Do you even have the right craft skill? Do the ingredients for the ink even occur naturally on this island?

Edit 2: The spells from level-up are said to be the result of "research." I assume that's a similar process to the "independent research" of new spells, so it wouldn't require finding a source to copy from. But it should still require an environment conducive to that research. And I'm pretty sure squatting in a bush isn't conducive to the processes by which Wizards research spells.

[Thurbane]

Does anybody other than Troacctid and Denthor have any actual help to offer?

:smallconfused: Rightio then.

My personal suggestions would be:


Channelled Pyroburst
Charm Monster
Greater Invisibility
Greater Mirror Image
Mass Resist Energy
Orb of Fire
Radiant Fog
Shadow Conjuration (if not blocked by setting)

[TalonOfAnathrax]

A few additions to the many good spells that have already been recommended:

Baleful Blink is almost as good as the offensive use of Bestow Curse (doesn't affect movement, but a 50% of having your attacks and spell slots wasted is quite good), and it works at range. No material component either. Unfortunately it's partly extradimensional.
Celerity is always good to have, and it doesn't have material components. Celerity + Daze immunity is fairly broken though, so be such to ask your DM before trying that!
You wanted fire spells? Fire Stride is amazing if you're setting stuff on fire all the time. For 10 min/level, you can teleport through fires. This may or may not be extradimensional travel, so it may not work in your case.
Charm Monster is a versatile spell both in and out of combat.
If you're struggling against Outsiders, Assay Spell Resistance remains available.
Power Word Distract is great if you have a rogue in the party
Greater Rebuke is a decent save-or-lose in a pinch.
Ice Web is an fun spell. It's like Web, but anyone who tries to move through it takes [caster level]d6 damage. This is especially good if someone in your party is in the habit of forcing movement.


Still, IMO the obvious choices are Polymorph (easy enough material components in the right season, incredibly versatile spell that grants great mobility if Dimension Door is out) and Celerity (avoid dying. Enough said).

[Jay R]

Thanks for all the help. Even if I didn't take your advice, it helped. I now know the details of a lot more spells.

For those who want to know, I went with Channeled Pyroburst, Fear, and Polymorph.

And the first thing that happened was a trap that gave out one negative level, and soon there was an energy drain from an undead attack.