Half Orc Paladin Oathbreaker, Conquest, or Vengeance/Champion Fighter

[Pallock44]

Looking for help with this build. Should I take the fighter to level 4 or 6 for the extra ASI or leave it at 3 to get the additional Paladin slots?

I was going to take Piercer and use a Halberd and either PAM or Sentinel with that. I am crit fishing so Vengeance probably makes the most sense but I love Dreadful Aspect for the flavor from Oathbreaker and I love Conquests Aura of Conquest.

I am new to the game but I love making characters on my down time so I have a decent understanding of the classes and mechanics but still learning.

My goal with the build is to deal devastating critical damage. So being half orc with piercer I take my crit from 2d10 to 4d10. I probably won't bother with Orcish Fury unless anyone thinks it is necessary.

Feel free to adjust anything on here. My main class has to be Paladin and I can't multiclass more than once. Also, no UA. Thanks!

[KorvinStarmast]

Looking for help with this build. Should I take the fighter to level 4 or 6 for the extra ASI or leave it at 3 to get the additional Paladin slots? Man, that's a tough choice. My instinct is "F6 then Pal forever after" but I tend to get a little Feat happy.
I'd also sugest going Pal 5 before you do any F.

[Pallock44]

Man, that's a tough choice. My instinct is "F6 then Pal forever after" but I tend to get a little Feat happy.
I'd also sugest going Pal 5 before you do any F.

Thanks, I was thinking either 5-6 Pal to get extra attack and maybe the Aura or Protection and then maybe 3 Fighter and back to Pal before finishing to get Aura if I don't have it then 1-3 more Fighter. I was also thinking about going Fighter 6 first to get the feats as I am feat happy myself. Also the longer I hold off on getting to level 6 in Paladin means the longer I can hold off bring my CHA up. Maybe Fighter 4 I take PAM or Sentinel, Fighter 6 I take Piercer, then Paladin 4 I take +2 CHA. I really want to get Divine Smite as fast as possible as well. So Maybe 3 then 4 then 3. Divine Smite comes online at level 5 with improved crits and AS. Tough decision.

[bid]

My goal with the build is to deal devastating critical damage. So being half orc with piercer I take my crit from 2d10 to 4d10. I probably won't bother with Orcish Fury unless anyone thinks it is necessary.

Feel free to adjust anything on here. My main class has to be Paladin and I can't multiclass more than once. Also, no UA. Thanks!
Since you are new, just a reminder that crit fishing is rarely optimal.

One surprising result is that a half-orc does less damage with a greataxe than with a maul. And it will be even worse with a 1d10 weapon.

If you just want to gamble with big numbers, crit fishing can be a lot of fun though.

[Pallock44]

Since you are new, just a reminder that crit fishing is rarely optimal.

One surprising result is that a half-orc does less damage with a greataxe than with a maul. And it will be even worse with a 1d10 weapon.

If you just want to gamble with big numbers, crit fishing can be a lot of fun though.

I know it's not optimal but I figured with Champion, Savage Attacks, and Piercer it would be fun. I know greatsword and maul do more damage overall they have a higher average and the lowest they can deal is 2 instead of 1 but they would not be optimal with something like piercer and half orc where you can add an additional damage die on crit hits. I am not trying to be super optimal but I don't want to hold my party back either.

What do you think of this build with Battlemaster instead of Champion? I probably wouldn't bother with Piercer or even Half Orc at that point. Probably take both Sentinel and PAM and go Vhuman.

[bid]

I am not trying to be super optimal but I don't want to hold my party back either.

What do you think of this build with Battlemaster instead of Champion?
I would still paladin 5-6 before dipping. I wonder what fits your goal better: maneuvers or pure paladin's 3rd spells.

But either archetypes are fine, you won't hold back the party. You know when you manage to do 12 damage to a creature with only 3 hp left? That kind of overkill has more impact than Champion vs Battlemaster.

[JackalTornMoons]

I guess I'll be the one to say it:

Hexadin is better.

You get SAD, crits on a 19, and a short rest smite slot just from one level of Warlock.

I generally suggest going 6 Paladin first because Aura of Protection is super strong.

[Pallock44]

I would still paladin 5-6 before dipping. I wonder what fits your goal better: maneuvers or pure paladin's 3rd spells.

But either archetypes are fine, you won't hold back the party. You know when you manage to do 12 damage to a creature with only 3 hp left? That kind of overkill has more impact than Champion vs Battlemaster.

The party is currently Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock, Druid, and then me the Paladin. I probably won't do much spell casting and most of my spell slots would be used for smite. I guess my focus would be to be more efficient in melee combat so I guess Battlemaster seems like the obvious choice in that sense.

[Pallock44]

I guess I'll be the one to say it:

Hexadin is better.

You get SAD, crits on a 19, and a short rest smite slot just from one level of Warlock.

I generally suggest going 6 Paladin first because Aura of Protection is super strong.

I know the power of Paladin Warlock that's how I came up with my name. Thought I later found how there is already a name called Padlock lol much cooler. The reason I like Champion better is because it's always on and my original idea was to focus on powerful crits. But it's probably a bad idea considering I am our only melee character. Any suggestions on what to do when the rest of the party is full caster?

[Pallock44]

I would still paladin 5-6 before dipping. I wonder what fits your goal better: maneuvers or pure paladin's 3rd spells.

But either archetypes are fine, you won't hold back the party. You know when you manage to do 12 damage to a creature with only 3 hp left? That kind of overkill has more impact than Champion vs Battlemaster.

"You know when you manage to do 12 damage to a creature with only 3 hp left? That kind of overkill has more impact than Champion vs Battlemaster." What do you mean by this?

[KorvinStarmast]

I know the power of Paladin Warlock that's how I came up with my name. Thought I later found how there is already a name called Padlock lol much cooler. The reason I like Champion better is because it's always on and my original idea was to focus on powerful crits. {snip} I am our only melee character. Any suggestions on what to do when the rest of the party is full caster? Fighter might be your better start. Someone among that pile of casters will be able to offer you a variety of chances for attack with advantage, since casters have some fine battlefield and creature control spells. And bless, etc. While I default to sword and board, GWF in this case might be 'just the thing' but I'd go defensive fighting style and either Maul or Greatsword. Your casters ought to be able to help you get advantage, or improve your 'hard to hit' via low level spells while you just beat the stuffing out of stuff.

I think I'll double down and suggest Fighter 6 first and then go Paladin X. When you do need the smites, later, you'll have them. Your casters have the magic side of this equation covered.

[Pallock44]

Fighter might be your better start. Someone among that pile of casters will be able to offer you a variety of chances for attack with advantage, since casters have some fine battlefield and creature control spells. And bless, etc. While I default to sword and board, GWF in this case might be 'just the thing' but I'd go defensive fighting style and either Maul or Greatsword. Your casters ought to be able to help you get advantage, or improve your 'hard to hit' via low level spells while you just beat the stuffing out of stuff.

I think I'll double down and suggest Fighter 6 first and then go Paladin X. When you do need the smites, later, you'll have them. Your casters have the magic side of this equation covered.

Can I go GWF with Halberd? I wanted to pick up PAM. Feel free to respond to this on the other thread if that is easier.

[bid]

"You know when you manage to do 12 damage to a creature with only 3 hp left? That kind of overkill has more impact than Champion vs Battlemaster." What do you mean by this?
Lets say there are 2 characters: one who always does 6 damage and the other who always does 8 damage.
8 is much better than 6, right?

But if all the creatures have 9-12 hp, you will need 2 hits from either characters to kill them. So 8 and 6 are just as good in this case.


Now damage is not constant in 5e, but rolling a lucky 12 damage could kill when an average 6 would not. And a lucky 12 is meaningless when the creature has 1 hp left. The luck of the damage dice has a large impact on actual DPR.

[Pallock44]

Lets say there are 2 characters: one who always does 6 damage and the other who always does 8 damage.
8 is much better than 6, right?

But if all the creatures have 9-12 hp, you will need 2 hits from either characters to kill them. So 8 and 6 are just as good in this case.


Now damage is not constant in 5e, but rolling a lucky 12 damage could kill when an average 6 would not. And a lucky 12 is meaningless when the creature has 1 hp left. The luck of the damage dice has a large impact on actual DPR.

Sorry lol I feel like such a noob. Is this making a case for battlemaster or champion?

[bid]

Sorry lol I feel like such a noob. Is this making a case for battlemaster or champion?
It doesn't matter.

The "case for BM/champ" is no bigger than the "case for lucky damage".