Multiclassed casters, "spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots"

[Stattick]

Let's say that you multiclass as a Sorcerer/Wizard. Your total level is 16. You're an 8th lvl sorcerer and 8th lvl wizard. You have 8th lvl spell slots...

Now, looking at the verbiage on Sorcerer, it reads, "You learn an additional sorcerer spell of your choice at each level except 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, and 20th. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." Wizard has similar verbiage. Obviously, the next time you level up, you get 9th level slots. Does it mean that you can also learn a 9th level spell from the spell list of the associated class? So, for example, when you hit 17th level, you go Sorcerer and grab Wish.

Does it also mean that so long as you multiclass into Wizard 1, you can then add any wizard spell into your spell book up to the level for which you have slots?



EDIT... wouldn't that make the most versatile caster the Wiz 1 / Divine Soul Sorc X? Get access to all wizard spells you can find/afford, get access to whatever's on the Sorc/Cleric list that you REALLY want.

[JackPhoenix]

No. You're missing the key sentence in multiclass rules: "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

[Stattick]

No. You're missing the key sentence in multiclass rules: "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Ok, cool. Thanks! I didn't think to look at the multiclassing rules regarding this.

[Thunderous Mojo]

An argument can be made that multi-classed Divine Casters, could indeed, use spell spells slots provided by multi-classing,(that exceed the level of slot that would normally be provided by their divine caster class level), to prepare higher level spells.

The Cleric, Druid, and Paladin classes' each contain this line in their Preparing and Casting Spells section:
The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

So a Cleric 1/ Wizard 2 has access to 2nd level spell slots...and based off a the verbiage in the Cleric, Druid, and Paladin class write ups...if you have the spell slot, then you can prepare a spell equal to the level of the slot, from those classes' spell list.

The limiting factor, is one can only prepare spell equal to Level + Spellcasting stat modifier for Clerics, Druids, and 1/2 Paladin level + Spellcasting Modifier for a Paladin.

A Cleric 1/ Wizard 19 is only able to prepare 5 spells from the Cleric list, (caveat, this is ignoring Domain spells), at 20th level, and only if their Wisdom score was 20.
A Cleric 1/ Wizard 19 with a 14 Wisdom score is preparing 3 spells.

This is powerful, but not overly unbalanced.

Other rule interpretations such as Coffee-lock, or allowing Pact Magic slots to fuel class features other than spellcasting, are arguably more impactful.

I will point out, that based off threads I have seen on this board, apparently there are some Tweets indicating that the interactions described above are not RAI.

Though the results do logically follow from the text of the PHB.

[Aett_Thorn]

An argument can be made that multi-classed Divine Casters, could indeed, use spell spells slots provided by multi-classing,(that exceed the level of slot that would normally be provided by their divine caster class level), to prepare higher level spells.

The Cleric, Druid, and Paladin classes' each contain this line in their Preparing and Casting Spells section:
The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.



This is not true by RAW or RAI. The multiclassing rules specifically mention preparing spells:

"Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook."

[Thunderous Mojo]

The Multi-Classed rules should have used an example with a Divine Caster.
The Multi-Classing rules state you prepare like a single class caster of your class level.

The Divine Caster Spell Preparation rules state that if you have a spell slot of a certain level, then you can prepare a spell of that same level in that slot.

The example of a Multi-classed Ranger/Wizard does not eliminate the logical interactions of the text.

Sorcerers, Rangers, Bards, and other classes with a limited spells known, will never Know a spell higher than their class level in a Known spell class.

A Wizard, could potentially have a spell in their spellbook, that they lack the power to cast, but the multi-class specifically excludes that out for them, even if they scribed Misty Step into their spellbook as a 1st level caster.

Divine Casters have no explicit prohibition, and have access to their entire list.

If you gave a 1st level Divine Caster a 5th level spell slot from a Supernatural Boon, and placed no other limits on that slot, a 1st level Cleric could use this slot to prepare a 5th level spell...by RAW.

The rules are leaky...a lawyer that charges $550 an hour could easily get a judge to rule in favor of what I wrote.

Again, I am not saying it is RAI, but I would also suggest running some one-shot sessions using the interpretation. The limited number of spells that can be prepared from the Divine Casters list due to limited level M/C dips, is, actually, a well written rule and preserves balance.

A Wizard be able to cast Aura of Vitality doesn't break the game. It just took the designers years to realize that...but JC has caught on...see Eberron, for example.

[Darc_Vader]

The Multi-Classed rules should have used an example with a Divine Caster.
The Multi-Classing rules state you prepare like a single class caster of your class level.

The Divine Caster Spell Preparation rules state that if you have a spell slot of a certain level, then you can prepare a spell of that same level in that slot.

Except you only take into account your levels in the class. A Cleric 5/Wizard 6 has access to 6th level slots, but because of the multiclass rules you are literally preparing spells as if you were only a Cleric 5, so you can only prepare up to what that would have: 3rd level slots. The multiclass rules are more specific than the rules for preparing spells.


Divine Casters have no explicit prohibition, and have access to their entire list.

If you gave a 1st level Divine Caster a 5th level spell slot from a Supernatural Boon, and placed no other limits on that slot, a 1st level Cleric could use this slot to prepare a 5th level spell...

In this case I’d actually agree I think. It doesn’t even touch the multiclassing rules so those are irrelevant, but even if they were multiclassed, I think it would still apply; a single classed divine caster with this boon would still have the boon, so they could prepare a spell of that level, but still no 2nd through 4th level spells since they do not have those slots.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Except you only take into account your levels in the class.
That is the rub. The M/C rules point back to the single class' rules.
Even with the M/C rules restriction...the implications of the Divine Caster's rules is that level in the Divine Casters is irrelevant. If a Divine Caster has access to a spell slot, then per their class preparation rules, a Divine Caster can prepare a spell equal to the level of the slot.


Accepting the example of the broadly worded Supernatural Boon, further supports then interpretation. The M/C rules have a major loophole for Divine Casters.🥂

In terms of practical effects, a House Jalisco, Mark of Healing Wizard, has access to some of the best Healing spells, and does not need to M/C, and does not need to worry about multiple attribute dependency.

The limited number of spell slots greater than 5th level, means that any Divine Caster dip, results in a character that is not very much different than a PC with a Dragonmark.

I do want to stress, I am making this argument, for the purposes of discussion.

[Keltest]

That is the rub. The M/C rules point back to the single class' rules.
Even with the M/C rules restriction...the implications of the Divine Caster's rules is that level in the Divine Casters is irrelevant. If a Divine Caster has access to a spell slot, then per their class preparation rules, a Divine Caster can prepare a spell equal to the level of the slot.


Accepting the example of the broadly worded Supernatural Boon, further supports then interpretation. The M/C rules have a major loophole for Divine Casters.🥂

In terms of practical effects, a House Jalisco, Mark of Healing Wizard, has access to some of the best Healing spells, and does not need to M/C, and does not need to worry about multiple attribute dependency.

The limited number of spell slots greater than 5th level, means that any Divine Caster dip, results in a character that is not very much different than a PC with a Dragonmark.

I do want to stress, I am making this argument, for the purposes of discussion.

The multiclassing rules do refer back to single class casting rules, but they also specify how to calculate the available spell slots for said single class caster. You dont count the spell slots gained from multiclassing for the purposes of what spells to prepare. A 1 cleric/19 sorcerer cannot prepare 9th level cleric spells with their slots because for the purposes of preparing cleric spells, theyre only a 1st level cleric.

[bid]

A 1 cleric/19 sorcerer cannot prepare 9th level cleric spells with their slots because for the purposes of preparing cleric spells, theyre only a 1st level cleric.
This.

Once the absurdity hits you, you have no choice but to drop those interpretations.

[Thunderous Mojo]

That is assuming one has a satori-like awakening regarding absurdity.
There is never a guarantee that will happen.
Many people live in recursive thought loops.

I'm not arguing this seriously, but purely as a distraction from other things that should be recognized as absurd, but are not.

Taken to the extreme, one could argue that the example of the Ranger/Wizard only applies to Wizard..I'm not ....but silliness does abound.

I will state again, try the silly interpretation during a one shot...it isn't nearly as powerful as Coffee-lock-ing.

[bid]

I'm not arguing this seriously, but purely as a distraction from other things that should be recognized as absurd, but are not.
You had me there. ><