Strongest Level 1 Combat Build in Pathfinder?

[Palanan]

There’s currently another thread asking for help creating first-level soldiers in 3.5, and I’m wondering how a similar exercise would look in Pathfinder.

The goal here is the best possible first-level fighting build, using the following parameters:

1. Races from APG.
2. All official Paizo content is available.
3. Standard WBL for NPCs.
4. Standard Array for stats.

I’d like to keep this strictly to Pathfinder 1E. Given this, what are some good contenders?

[Eldonauran]

Well, we'll need to get more criteria for you. How do you define 'strongest' or 'most powerful'? If it is sheer damage output, that is going to be a vastly different build than one that is more versatile and adaptable in more circumstances.

Also, what class(es), if any, are you looking for? Straight Fighter?

[Firebug]

"Standard array and NPC gold" is a little different in Pathfinder compared to 3.5 from what I am seeing. Do you mean, "Basic" or "Heroic".
Basic would be 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8 for ability scores (3! point buy) and 260 gp.
Heroic would be 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8 for ability scores (15 point buy) and 390 gp.
Its notable that for PFS, you start with 20 point buy and 150 gp.

What do you want us to use?

[Eldonauran]

"Standard array and NPC gold" is a little different in Pathfinder compared to 3.5 from what I am seeing. Do you mean, "Basic" or "Heroic".
Basic would be 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8 for ability scores (3! point buy) and 260 gp.
Heroic would be 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8 for ability scores (15 point buy) and 390 gp.
Its notable that for PFS, you start with 20 point buy and 150 gp.

What do you want us to use?
To be more clear, PFS is for player characters. Adventure Paths are set for 15 point buy for PCs, but actual games can run from 15 to 20 to 25.

[lylsyly]

Well, we'll need to get more criteria for you. How do you define 'strongest' or 'most powerful'? If it is sheer damage output, that is going to be a vastly different build than one that is more versatile and adaptable in more circumstances.

Also, what class(es), if any, are you looking for? Straight Fighter?

Also, what role do you expect them to fulfill?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Firebug
Heroic would be 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8 for ability scores (15 point buy) and 390 gp.

Let’s go with this.


Originally Posted by Eldonauran
If it is sheer damage output, that is going to be a vastly different build than one that is more versatile and adaptable in more circumstances.

I’m open to a variety of approaches.


Originally Posted by lylsyly
Also, what role do you expect them to fulfill?

Just as in the other thread, mercenary soldiers organized for small-unit combat.

[lylsyly]

Unchained Barbarians and a cleric or magus as a squad leader?

[Firebug]

Not exactly sure if its the best, but my 'go-to' for a level 1 pregen for PFS as a melee is a Medium. And since its a Medium, they can fill in a few other roles day by day by channeling another spirit. Most times will be in Champion though.

Human [Adoptive Parentage(Tengu)] for Weapon Focus(Longsword), consider Fey Magic for Low-light vision and a few spell-likes in a specific terrain
Medium 1(No archetype)
Favored Class Bonus: +1 HP
16 Str(+2 race), 14 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha
Trait: Chosen of Iomedae (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Chosen%20of%20Iomedae): Light 1/day as a spell like, free MW Longsword and when you cast light on the longsword (not just the spell-like) its radius and duration are doubled.
Trait: Arodenite Sword Training (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Arodenite%20Sword%20Tra ining): Weapon Proficiency with Longsword, so we can use it even if we switch spirits and can channel a lesser spirit in Champion for more 1d6 rolls.
Feat(Race): Weapon Focus(Longsword)
Feat: Spirit Focus (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Spirit%20Focus)(Champion ): Can go with Legendary Influence (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Legendary%20Influence) to swap up whatever feats you want for each spirit. Something likebrew potions(at 3rd) for heirophant, scribe scroll for Archmage, Skill Focus(something) for Trickster, etc.
Spirit Surge 1d6 (costs 1 point of influence, but if we channel a lesser spirit from Champion, we get 2 uses for free): add 1d6 to a failed fortitude save or attack roll (or strength check, but we don't care)
Spirit Bonus +1(another +1 w/Spirit Focus): +X to attacks, non-spell damage rolls, fortitude saves, strength checks
Seance Bonus: +2 non-spell damage rolls
Knacks(Cantrips): Pick 2, recommend 1 is light since we have the synergy already. Runner-ups would be Message (aka short range walkie-talkies), Dancing Lights (for when you need light over there), Detect Magic, Daze, etc. If its a squad, mix the choices up.

Equipment (assuming 150gp):
Four Mirror Armor(125gp)
Alchemical Acid 1-2 (10 gp/ea): Note, the Spirit and Seance Bonus apply as its not spell damage (1d6+4 acid damage)
MW Longsword(Free)
Couple of Javelins (1gp/ea): Not terribly accurate at +4, but 1d6+8 damage when they hit.
Starting HP is maxed for PFS so
18 AC; 11 hp
+4 Fort; +2 Ref; +2 Will
+8 to hit for 1d8+10 damage with Longsword (2h)

So changes to Heroic we probably want: 15+2(str), and the 13 in Con (-1 fort/hP). But a lot more gold, so we can pick up a Darkwood Heavy shield at -0 ACP for 257 gp if we wanted to increase the AC, but we do lose damage a good amount of damage from 2h and the 1 point loss in Str. AC 18 +7 to hit for 1d8+8 (2h) or 20 AC +7 to hit for 1d8+7 (sword and board). We would also need to drop a few of the Acid's to afford the Shield and Armor. We could drop to Scale and save 75 gp though we lose 1 AC. In a squad probably a few will swap to scale mail, since some will be channeling Archmage and would prefer not to wear armor with ASF. But still want it around if they need to wear it.

If it was 15 point buy instead of array, I would strongly recommend getting that Str to 16 pre-race(probably lose 2 dex and 1 con to 12s each) as that's a 2 damage difference with a 2h.

1d8+7 damage on your primary weapon is still pretty good for a 1h weapon and shield though at level 1.AC 20, 10 HP; +3 Fort, +2 Ref, +2 Will
+7 to hit for 1d8+7(1h Longsword); +4 to hit for 1d6+7(Javelin); +4 to hit for 1d6+4(Acid Flask)
Low-light Vision, always on double radius Light spell, some druid spell-likes depending on terrain (probably vary the squad so someone always is in the right terrain)
Can add +1d6 to 3-4 failed Fort Saves or Attack Rolls per day before penalties (another 2 with losing the spellcasting)
Can scribe any cleric or wizard spell scroll on its own.
If multiple in a squad, some can diversify to some minor spellcasting(arcane and divine), skill usage (can change per day), better AC/Saves, or sharing Spirit Surge without changing the build at all.

[Kurald Galain]

If by "strongest combat" you mean damage output, then your best bet at this level is probably to
(1) max out your strength
(2) get as many natural attacks as possible (e.g. half-orc with Toothy)
(3) get an animal companion or eidolon
(4) have your companion also max out its strength
(5) and get as many natural attacks as possible on your companion.

If you go without companion, then an obvious contender would be a half-orc bloodrager, with toothy trait and any bloodline that gives claw attacks; that's two claw attacks at +8 / 1d6+7 and one bite at +8 / 1d4+7. You can get more damage by using power attack, or some traits that boost your to-hit or damage.

[Peat]

Natural Attack Spam was my first guess too.

A squad of Cavaliers sharing teamwork feats was my second thought.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Peat
A squad of Cavaliers sharing teamwork feats was my second thought.

Interesting. Which teamwork feats would work best here?


Originally Posted by Firebug
Not exactly sure if its the best, but my 'go-to' for a level 1 pregen for PFS as a melee is a Medium.

That build is impressive. I've never really looked at the Medium before.

.

[Gnaeus]

I’ll toss in my daughter’s Goliath Druid.

Half Orc 17 STR. Greataxe. Toothy Trait. Can convert all spells to enlarge person. That gives us 19 str with a large (MW) greataxe, so base damage is 3d6+6 20x3. With a secondary bite for D6+2. That’s not as much full attack damage as the natural attacker. But....
It’s better on move and attack. And still likely dropping any CR 1 it hits. It would easily one shot bosses with a 9d6+18 crit.
It is large with reach, so very likely to be picking up AOOs.
We went with rage subdomain, so later it could rage like a Barbarian, but at level 1 we would instead take a Deinonychus pet, which gets 3 additional natural attacks and can also be enlarged with enlarge person. So if you want to be a greataxe wielding maniac riding a 10’ tall velociraptor we can make that happen at L1.
It’s still a Druid, so even though we plan to convert spells to enlarge self or pet, we memorize them as magic fang or CLW or longstrider or goodberry or whatever other Druid spells seem most likely to be useful. So if the day before was a safe downtime day we can add 4d4 free goodberry style non combat healing for one example. Should still have some $ left for a couple scrolls also.

[Particle_Man]

Well to match what I put in the other thread, a kineticist (probably hydrokineticist, as cold resistance is more rare than fire resistance) with the extended range infusion, so you get 120’ range touch attacks (assuming they use their move action to gather power to reduce the burn of extended range). Plus outside of combat they can power your keep’s waterwheels. 😊

Again, this is assuming first level “archer” followers via the leadership feat that would likely be against higher AC opponents.

And after first level my answer would be different. 😊

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gnaeus
Half Orc 17 STR. Greataxe. Toothy Trait. Can convert all spells to enlarge person.

How are you converting spells to Enlarge Person?

[Gnaeus]

How are you converting spells to Enlarge Person?

It’s a feature of Goliath Druid ACF

Primal Size

A goliath druid adds enlarge person to her list of class spells. She can cast this spell only on herself.

She can also channel stored spell energy to cast this spell without preparing it—she can lose a prepared spell of 1st level or higher to cast enlarge person.

This ability replaces nature sense.
Primal Bond (Ex)

When a goliath druid forms a nature bond, if she selects a cleric domain, she must selected from the Animal, Destruction, or Strength domains, or the Ferocity, Growth, or Rage subdomains.

If the goliath druid selects an animal companion, she must select a dinosaur or megafauna. If she has a dinosaur or megafauna animal companion, she can target it with enlarge person even though the companion isn’t of the humanoid type.

This ability alters nature bond.

[Rynjin]

I’ll toss in my daughter’s Goliath Druid.

Half Orc 17 STR. Greataxe. Toothy Trait. Can convert all spells to enlarge person. That gives us 19 str with a large (MW) greataxe, so base damage is 3d6+6 20x3. With a secondary bite for D6+2. That’s not as much full attack damage as the natural attacker. But....
It’s better on move and attack. And still likely dropping any CR 1 it hits. It would easily one shot bosses with a 9d6+18 crit.
It is large with reach, so very likely to be picking up AOOs.
We went with rage subdomain, so later it could rage like a Barbarian, but at level 1 we would instead take a Deinonychus pet, which gets 3 additional natural attacks and can also be enlarged with enlarge person. So if you want to be a greataxe wielding maniac riding a 10’ tall velociraptor we can make that happen at L1.
It’s still a Druid, so even though we plan to convert spells to enlarge self or pet, we memorize them as magic fang or CLW or longstrider or goodberry or whatever other Druid spells seem most likely to be useful. So if the day before was a safe downtime day we can add 4d4 free goodberry style non combat healing for one example. Should still have some $ left for a couple scrolls also.

I can instantly see a way to make this stronger already: trade out the Greataxe for a Butchering Axe (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/axe-butchering/). Just need to grab Proficiency.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gnaeus
It’s a feature of Goliath Druid ACF

Okay, I didn't realize that was an archetype.

Interesting submissions so far. What about some builds that are strictly martial, i.e. that don't rely on spellcasting in any way?

[Rynjin]

Okay, I didn't realize that was an archetype.

Interesting submissions so far. What about some builds that are strictly martial, i.e. that don't rely on spellcasting in any way?

Even without casting any spells, an Abyssal Bloodrager is probably a top contender.

[Kurald Galain]

What about some builds that are strictly martial, i.e. that don't rely on spellcasting in any way?

First-level bloodragers can't cast spells.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Rynjin
Even without casting any spells, an Abyssal Bloodrager is probably a top contender.

Can you elaborate on this? I've never really looked at the bloodrager. Is there a particular build that would put this option in the running?

[Kurald Galain]

Can you elaborate on this? I've never really looked at the bloodrager. Is there a particular build that would put this option in the running?

Check this:


If you go without companion, then an obvious contender would be a half-orc bloodrager, with toothy trait and any bloodline that gives claw attacks; that's two claw attacks at +8 / 1d6+7 and one bite at +8 / 1d4+7. You can get more damage by using power attack, or some traits that boost your to-hit or damage.

[Rynjin]

Yep. Plus it scales really fast if you're inclined to go further than 1 but not too far. It's probably one of the best E6 combat builds because it gets a damage booster at first, natural attacks, and grows Large before 5th.

[Palanan]

Interesting ideas so far. Just to narrow it down a little, what are some options for purely martial builds?

E.g., strong first-level builds for classes with no spellcasting whatsoever. Anything for fighter, slayer, swashbuckler, vigilante?

[Rynjin]

Interesting ideas so far. Just to narrow it down a little, what are some options for purely martial builds?

E.g., strong first-level builds for classes with no spellcasting whatsoever. Anything for fighter, slayer, swashbuckler, vigilante?

Nothing particularly unique. For level 1 martial builds "some dude with a Falchion or Greataxe and Power Attack" kind of reigns supreme. The Slayer has a slight edge over the other options because they have an innate damage booster, but it doesn't compare to a Barbarian save that it's unlimited.

[Kitsuneymg]

Block buster wizard. Do the admixture evocation guy, grab some urea, and take spell specialization burning hands. Drop some urea and admix it to cold for caster level 4 burning hands 3/day. Certainly a good nova. If you’ve extra gold, add gun powder as a material component for another +1 damage.

Sorceror or Oracle with color spray is still probably better at slaughtering equal level things.