My ranger problem

[msfnc]

I’m a usually-DM who’s been given the opportunity to play in a Rime of the Frostmaiden game. I immediately chose to play a ranger. I’ve never run one (in 5e), never had one of my players run one either. Rime seems like a great setting for a survival/utility type. Three sessions in, and it’s great fun. Here comes the big but (heh.): she’s too good at stuff! Party is 6 PCs, four of the players are pretty new. So far, almost every issue that has come up has been something my character is ‘best’ at. Survival checks? Animal handling? Nature, investigation, medicine? Yes yes and more yes. I swear I’m not trying to dominate the session, and I’m not a spotlight-hog. But I’m starting to feel like maybe I should hold back and let the others try some stuff. Even though my character is better at it m and it serves the party better to, you know, succeed. As we approach level 3, I’m eyeballing that Fey Wanderer sub, adding up those sweet Wisdom+Charisma checks in my head. Then I realize I’m planning on adding even MORE utility by becoming the party’s face. What to do? Nerf my build to promote more fun for the party at large? Hold back and let the noobs fail/flail? I don’t want to spoil anyone’s fun, but I also don’t want to fake a limp in order to not outrun the pack. Any advice on build/play style/etiquette? Thanks Internet!

[Droppeddead]

I’m a usually-DM who’s been given the opportunity to play in a Rime of the Frostmaiden game. I immediately chose to play a ranger. I’ve never run one (in 5e), never had one of my players run one either. Rime seems like a great setting for a survival/utility type. Three sessions in, and it’s great fun. Here comes the big but (heh.): she’s too good at stuff! Party is 6 PCs, four of the players are pretty new. So far, almost every issue that has come up has been something my character is ‘best’ at. Survival checks? Animal handling? Nature, investigation, medicine? Yes yes and more yes. I swear I’m not trying to dominate the session, and I’m not a spotlight-hog. But I’m starting to feel like maybe I should hold back and let the others try some stuff. Even though my character is better at it m and it serves the party better to, you know, succeed. As we approach level 3, I’m eyeballing that Fey Wanderer sub, adding up those sweet Wisdom+Charisma checks in my head. Then I realize I’m planning on adding even MORE utility by becoming the party’s face. What to do? Nerf my build to promote more fun for the party at large? Hold back and let the noobs fail/flail? I don’t want to spoil anyone’s fun, but I also don’t want to fake a limp in order to not outrun the pack. Any advice on build/play style/etiquette? Thanks Internet!

Don't nerf your build, that will just come back to bite you in the end. My suggestion is that you instead use tje knowledge and experience you have from DM-ing to, in character of course, help your team mates to succeed.
If you have a cleric in the group, ask them to help take a look at an injury (or whatever it is you roll medicine for), ask them if it's like anything they have ever seen before, etc. Encourage roleplaying to get people to use all of their abilities and try to see all class abilites as a communal resource pool and not just something that can only be used in, say combat.

Of course, this all depends quite a lot on what kind of style the DM has. If you enter a room and are just told "roll investigation" (I'm over-simplifying here a bit) then perhaps you need to talk to the DM. Otherwise you can do something like "Marisha, if you check those drawers and you Liam search the bookcase I'll stand guard so no-one catches us while we search the room."

Also, remember to play your stats. Just because you get great ideas doesn't mean that your character does and just because you think of the perfect lie to tell a guard doesn't mean your character has the confidence to do it (so you make the Rogue do it), etc.

[Emongnome777]

Ok, so you picked a weak class, let's see how we can..... wait, you're too good at stuff? Am I in the right forum? :smalltongue:

I've not read RotFM, but it sounds like it leans heavily into survival aspects, which make sense. Rangers are supposed to be the best at the exploration pillar generally. This sounds more like something the DM needs to address. Talk to the DM to see if he/she will call for skills that others have. Perhaps also the other players built their characters on combat exclusively. Ranger is no slouch there, but the martial characters should shine in combat. Is there a charisma caster in the party? Let them take the lead on social encounters.

Regarding Fey Wanderer, if you have a charisma-primary caster in the party, their Wis+Cha stuff could step on some toes like you indicated. If you're only 2nd level, I wouldn't worry too much, perhaps the adventure turns more combat-oriented or opens other doors for the other characters to shine. Being sensitive to this is a good first step, hopefully if everyone else is having fun, then it's all good. Maybe they are letting you "shine" since you don't get to be on that side of the DM's screen very much? If so, then congratulations, it sounds like you have a great group of people in your group.

[Tanarii]

From what I've heard, Tomb of Annihilation was another module that particularly lent itself to Rangers for huge chunks of play.

I'd have expected it for Out of the Abyss too, but IiRC it heavily downplayed the survival aspect. Which is weird considering it's supposed to be about a bunch of escaped slaves.

[stoutstien]

I’m a usually-DM who’s been given the opportunity to play in a Rime of the Frostmaiden game. I immediately chose to play a ranger. I’ve never run one (in 5e), never had one of my players run one either. Rime seems like a great setting for a survival/utility type. Three sessions in, and it’s great fun. Here comes the big but (heh.): she’s too good at stuff! Party is 6 PCs, four of the players are pretty new. So far, almost every issue that has come up has been something my character is ‘best’ at. Survival checks? Animal handling? Nature, investigation, medicine? Yes yes and more yes. I swear I’m not trying to dominate the session, and I’m not a spotlight-hog. But I’m starting to feel like maybe I should hold back and let the others try some stuff. Even though my character is better at it m and it serves the party better to, you know, succeed. As we approach level 3, I’m eyeballing that Fey Wanderer sub, adding up those sweet Wisdom+Charisma checks in my head. Then I realize I’m planning on adding even MORE utility by becoming the party’s face. What to do? Nerf my build to promote more fun for the party at large? Hold back and let the noobs fail/flail? I don’t want to spoil anyone’s fun, but I also don’t want to fake a limp in order to not outrun the pack. Any advice on build/play style/etiquette? Thanks Internet!

rangers in a nutshell. can turn any campaign that has gritty resource management or survival as a focus into one that is not. depending if you are using the base or optional features in Tasha's they can feel like they bypass challenges than overcoming them. i wouldn't sweat it all that much as you continue on. without spoilers i can say that other classes will have time to shine


Ok, so you picked a weak class, let's see how we can..... wait, you're too good at stuff? Am I in the right forum? :smalltongue:

I've not read RotFM, but it sounds like it leans heavily into survival aspects, which make sense. Rangers are supposed to be the best at the exploration pillar generally. This sounds more like something the DM needs to address. Talk to the DM to see if he/she will call for skills that others have. Perhaps also the other players built their characters on combat exclusively. Ranger is no slouch there, but the martial characters should shine in combat. Is there a charisma caster in the party? Let them take the lead on social encounters.

Regarding Fey Wanderer, if you have a charisma-primary caster in the party, their Wis+Cha stuff could step on some toes like you indicated. If you're only 2nd level, I wouldn't worry too much, perhaps the adventure turns more combat-oriented or opens other doors for the other characters to shine. Being sensitive to this is a good first step, hopefully if everyone else is having fun, then it's all good. Maybe they are letting you "shine" since you don't get to be on that side of the DM's screen very much? If so, then congratulations, it sounds like you have a great group of people in your group.

the argument that rangers are a weaker class is mostly false. they don't fall behind until late tier 3 and can be a good mook clearer with lots of ways to spread out damage at will. single target they do ok as well. its a cost of about ~10% less damage for all the ranger goodies.

[Keravath]

You don't mention your stats or the classes or stats of the other party members. Were rolled stats used for character creation or was point buy or another system used?

For example, you mention being the go to for nature and investigation checks. These are both intelligence skills. Rangers don't usually have a high intelligence so aren't usually particularly good at these. Wizards, artificers, arcane trickster rogues or eldritch knight fighters can often be better if they took proficiency in the skill.

Perception is probably the most commonly used skill, it is wisdom based so rangers are usually good at it but you haven't mentioned it.

Anyway, I don't think you should make your character worse by making poor choices but more information is needed to really know why your character shines unless it is all just related to the environmental threats and focus on survival in RotFM where any ranger is likely to shine just by being outdoorsy and having the survival skill to help avoid getting lost.

One aspect of 5e is the bounded accuracy - this means that rolled stats can create very uneven character abilities especially in tier 1. A wizard that rolls less well with a maximum of 14 which they put in int has trouble keeping up with any other character that rolls really well and has a 16 to toss into a tertiary stat like int. If they are proficient at the same skills then the other character does better at the int skills just because they rolled better. In this case, it is better for the character with the higher stat to make the skill checks and the wizard won't actually be better at it until level 8 when they have bumped their int to 18 while the tertiary stat for the other character is unlikely to change.

Finally, it is a role playing game, the character taking the action should make the roll ... sometimes this means that the non-optimal character is rolling for a skill check but this is part of role playing :)

[Sigreid]

Well, it shouldn't be a surprise that ranger excels in a harsh wilderness environment. That's really what they're for. To keep the party alive when there's no city or town to support them.

That said, talk to the other players about what their characters are able to do/good at and incorporate their skills into your solutions.

[Asisreo1]

For example, you mention being the go to for nature and investigation checks. These are both intelligence skills. Rangers don't usually have a high intelligence so aren't usually particularly good at these. Wizards, artificers, arcane trickster rogues or eldritch knight fighters can often be better if they took proficiency in the skill.

Rangers get expertise in those checks when its related to their terrain. All it takes is a +1 to match a Wizard proficient in one of them. Wizard gets ahead at level 4, them falls behind at level 5.

Rangers' Nature at level 1 w int +1: (1+2(2))=+5
Wizard's Nature at level 1 w int+3: (3+2)=+5

Level 4 Wizard: (4+2)=6

Level 5 Ranger (1+2(3))=+7

Not to mention that Nature and Investigation aren't common Skill picks for Wizards IMX. Its usually Arcana and History. Meanwhile Nature is almost always a popular Ranger proficiency and Investigation has its uses.

[Ertwin]

Bottom line, you need to have this discussion with the DM and the other players, not with strangers on the internet.

Strangers on the Internet are more for improving your build if it's lagging.

[msfnc]

So many great comments, I’m too lazy to reply to each. So first, thanks all. Some details:
Rolled stats. I rolled quite well, but so did most of the party. The other PCs are all ‘viable’ mechanically. Nobody let the the wizard dump intelligence or anything. I did build the character in a vacuum, with no knowledge of the rest of the party beyond ‘no other rangers’. Considering all this input, I think it’s going to be an engaging challenge for me to build the best character I can, and then remember to be a role-player in the party instead of the DM. I need to remind myself to just shut up and listen sometimes. As to the advice to talk to DM and party instead of strangers online, I respectfully submit that my intention in seeking advice online is to gain insight and consider new viewpoints BEFORE engaging with my group, not INSTEAD of. Good advice all around. Thanks!

[Frogreaver]

the argument that rangers are a weaker class is mostly false. they don't fall behind until late tier 3 and can be a good mook clearer with lots of ways to spread out damage at will. single target they do ok as well. its a cost of about ~10% less damage for all the ranger goodies.

In a game without great optimization, rangers are fantastic. Once you start factoring in GWM/SS/CE/PAM and that it only takes a 1 level dip for hex/hexblade's curse, then most of what the ranger offers is either redundant or doesn't synergize as well with where the bulk of damage in optimized builds comes from.

Playing in a few featless games changes ones perspectives pretty quickly on how good classes are.

[CheddarChampion]

You could talk with your DM: tell them you're afraid you're hogging the spotlight and would like them to throw in some non-ranger stuff if they can.

[stoutstien]

In a game without great optimization, rangers are fantastic. Once you start factoring in GWM/SS/CE/PAM and that it only takes a 1 level dip for hex/hexblade's curse, then most of what the ranger offers is either redundant or doesn't synergize as well with where the bulk of damage in optimized builds comes from.

Playing in a few featless games changes ones perspectives pretty quickly on how good classes are.

for the most part, rangers can leverage the same feat chains as any other weapon user and some can get a ton of mileage with certain factors like gloomstalker + SS or bugbear hunter +GWM. they do okay damage which i thing is fine. they also do okay in the other 2 pillars with no real opportunity costs.

the hexblade problem is a whole other can of warms. i don't have big problem with it outside the evoker cheese.

[Morty]

The perennial issue with rangers is that they make any wilderness survival challenges into a foregone conclusion, but are pretty mediocre when those aren't involved. So this seems consistent.

[Kane0]

I’m a usually-DM who’s been given the opportunity to play in a Rime of the Frostmaiden game. I immediately chose to play a ranger. I’ve never run one (in 5e), never had one of my players run one either. Rime seems like a great setting for a survival/utility type. Three sessions in, and it’s great fun. Here comes the big but (heh.): she’s too good at stuff! Party is 6 PCs, four of the players are pretty new. So far, almost every issue that has come up has been something my character is ‘best’ at. Survival checks? Animal handling? Nature, investigation, medicine? Yes yes and more yes. I swear I’m not trying to dominate the session, and I’m not a spotlight-hog. But I’m starting to feel like maybe I should hold back and let the others try some stuff. Even though my character is better at it m and it serves the party better to, you know, succeed. As we approach level 3, I’m eyeballing that Fey Wanderer sub, adding up those sweet Wisdom+Charisma checks in my head. Then I realize I’m planning on adding even MORE utility by becoming the party’s face. What to do? Nerf my build to promote more fun for the party at large? Hold back and let the noobs fail/flail? I don’t want to spoil anyone’s fun, but I also don’t want to fake a limp in order to not outrun the pack. Any advice on build/play style/etiquette? Thanks Internet!

Don't shoot yourself in the foot by intentionally sabotaging yourself mechanically. Instead try sharing that spotlight around where applicable, for example helping (provides advantage) instead of doing it yourself.

[Frogreaver]

for the most part, rangers can leverage the same feat chains as any other weapon user and some can get a ton of mileage with certain factors like gloomstalker + SS or bugbear hunter +GWM. they do okay damage which i thing is fine. they also do okay in the other 2 pillars with no real opportunity costs.

Sure, but those feat chains don't synergize nearly as well for them. They do good in tier 1 and often in tier 2 exploration. Beyond that things get to planar and teleporty most of the time IME. Social I'm not seeing any particular abilities for?


the hexblade problem is a whole other can of warms. i don't have big problem with it outside the evoker cheese.

I don't read the rules as allowing evoker cheese so I guess that isn't a problem. And without the evoker cheese, I don't see anything particularly bad about hexblade.

[Spore]

Oh I know that feeling, my friend. I altered my knight build (in Pathfinder, but the same principles apply) to be a Ranger instead of a Cavalier in a game entirely starting on an abandoned island because I anticipated the survival aspect to be important and the other concepts had no survival parts in them.

I hate to impart Lord of the Rings here mainly because the LotR experts will rip apart my post, but I feel playing a leader who knows his group's strengths, but one who leads them through the danger regardless is a great tool. You have the spot light but you can guide it too. Compliment the fighter on an awesome display after a fight. Inquire if the wizard could teach you a bit of basic magic. Get into a discussion about gods with the cleric. What you are is a stout explorer, that is a formidable warrior that can decide if a combat is worthwhile. If your group is of the patient sort, you can even turn your stealth proficiency (I assumed you do have it) into a team advantage that helps everyone shine.

Because almost every other class is better if they are allowed to prepare for the fight ahead. This means clerics prebuffing, wizards communicating a battle plan in which they are protected and will guide the flow of battle with their magic, the rogue and fighter getting good terrain info for positioning. If your group is one to run headlong into battle, with the only guide being your (probably exasperated) ranger, they are bound to be outclassed by the only member of the group that leans back once and now to think and plan.

[Willie the Duck]

Rangers, more than many classes, benefit greatly by rolling well. Fey Wanderer even moreso (good cha and good wis = great checks). It also reduces the comparative benefit that a hexblade dip gives (at least the benefit of SADness).

Level 2 is a great point for rangers. As you approach level 3, I think things will even out. When the other casters get second level spells and the warrior types begin to get L2 and L3 benefit (such as battlemaster maneuvers), the relative values of the classes will converge for a while. Medicine checks? Well the cleric now has lesser restoration. Athletics? Mage has spiderclimb or misty step. Everyone has a contribution.

[stoutstien]

Sure, but those feat chains don't synergize nearly as well for them. They do good in tier 1 and often in tier 2 exploration. Beyond that things get to planar and teleporty most of the time IME. Social I'm not seeing any particular abilities for?

there social edge is in recon and information gathering and acting as the bridge between exploration and social. you can lead your followers out of the dessert a lot sooner than waiting for divine intervention because after an hour you can't be lost lol. a handful of languages is also nice even if it gets hand-waved often but that's rangers.

[KorvinStarmast]

As we approach level 3, I’m eyeballing that Fey Wanderer sub, adding up those sweet Wisdom+Charisma checks in my head.

What to do? Nerf my build to promote more fun for the party at large?
Hold back and let the noobs fail/flail? You are at level 2, which is "apprentice adventurer" so a few of your skills came on line early. Stop Worrying.
1. Don't nerf your build

2. "Hold back and let the noobs flail" is not a bad idea since they are noobs and learning by doing is a great way to become not-noobs. You can Offer the Help Action. (In combat and out, as necessary) Read up on Help in Chapter 7 and Chapter 9.

3. Grab that Few Wanderer and enjoy it.

As the party levels go up, you will find that other PCs and their classes will very much get new toys also.

You are worrying about this when, at level 2, you should not be.

[Sigreid]

Even if you wind up doing most of the time, it can be just as satisfying for other players if they get to be deciding or contributing to the decision on what is done. Knowing what to do/making a plan is every bit as important as being the one that can implement it.