Low-Op Epic Item Balance

[AvatarVecna]

The x10 to cost thing applies to basically everything except for Caster Level by default, which sucks in a game when you've got piles of gold and either can't or won't abuse WBLmancy to get stupid powerful items. How problematic would it be for such a game to houserule away that price hike? Items giving epic effects still require epic crafting feats to make, only the price is changing.

[Biggus]

Off the top of my head, skills seem to be one of the main issues (assuming PCs have roughly the WBL suggested in the ELH), +50 items are 250,000GP and so become available as soon as Craft Epic Wondrous Item is available at level 23, and +100 items are 1,000,000GP and available by level 30ish.

A lot of the monsters in the ELH become a lot easier to defeat unless they have access to epic spells and/or items too, as you can boost your attacks and defences dramatically (a +20 resistance saves or armor AC item is 400,000GP for example, a +10 one only 100,000GP).

If there are a lot of epic crafters in your world and/or your world is old enough, there'll be a lot of epic items around and even nonepic characters will often have access to them (a +8 resistance saves item is only 64,000GP for example).

Of course, there are two other factors which affect how much difference this stuff makes: how freely you allow custom magic items, and what restrictions (if any) you put on Epic Spellcasting, since they can both potentially give huge bonuses even more cheaply (an item which gives +5 resistance, insight, luck and sacred bonuses to saves would cost 250,000GPs according to the DMG guidelines for example).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I typically get items with a lot of lower-level benefits that synergize well and are vastly more powerful than most epic items for a tiny fraction of the cost, even with the +50% markup as outlined in the MIC. If I find an epic item, I'm far more likely to sell it or sacrifice it to add gp to my Ancestral Relic than I am to use it, because epic items are usually just not very good.

So that's one way you could do it, 100% legally and within the rules.

[AvatarVecna]

Im fully aware of the endless possibilities that are inherent to WBLmancy and item shenanigans. I feel you should know that "play something besides low-op" isn't really the kinda of feedback I was looking for with this question.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Im fully aware of the endless possibilities that are inherent to WBLmancy and item shenanigans. I feel you should know that "play something besides low-op" isn't really the kinda of feedback I was looking for with this question.Then get items that don't synergize as well.

[noob]

It is time to get your cowl of warding(conceptually it is a very epic item and a very cool one at that), a full stack of pearls of thaumathurgy for all the spells of level 9 and lower,the fanciest fancy magical flight item that is, a bunch of scrolls of true resurrect just in case you do not have clerics accessible,3 ring of three wishes, a luckblade, a demolition hammer, that sword made for killing undead, an axe of negative energy, soulfire armour and so on.
None of them are particularly op but now you can have fun having basically all the non epic resources in gigantic amounts.

[Vaern]

I wouldn't see a problem with it. If it's a low op game then giving your players easier access to more powerful gear sets then up a bit better for challenges that you may want to throw at them but can't because they aren't on par with a higher op group of the same level.
You could also probably make the cost multiplier a factor of how powerful the epic item is rather than a flat x10, but that would take a lot more work and would become increasingly restrictive to higher tier items as the party actually approaches epic levels. For example, each point beyond the standard maximum bonus might add a +100% cost modifier. A +6 weapon would cost twice as much as the standard formula indicates, +7 three times as much, etc. You would have to get yourself a +15 weapon in order to match the standard 10x epic multiplier this way. This makes pricing a bit friendlier for the players, though the scaling cost multiplier adds reason to not have epic items popping up almost as frequently as CL 20 items in your world.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget a ML-boosted Device* psychoactive skin of proteus that uses the Words of Creation feat. ML 15, and it's definitely worth the cost, if you have the money to throw at it. Of course, an at-will item of metamorphosis is much cheaper, but you'll have to refresh it every 15 minutes.

Also, using and abusing (Devices of) (un)hallow and (a Device of) acorn of far travel can get you a ton of, essentially, permanent buffs for practically free, relatively speaking. Takes some setup work, though.


Find or plant an oak tree somewhere, preferably on a plane that is timeless with regards to magic. Cast a Sculpted (un)hallow spell so that it affects some of the tree's canopy. Tie the acorn of far travel (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) spell to it. Now all the acorns in the AoE are affected by the spell, so you can give acorns out to whomever you like. (You can only have one AoFT spell in effect at once; this doesn't preclude you from affecting multiple acorns with the same spell.) Now use Sculpt Spell to make a bunch of line-shaped (un)hallow spells pointing straight up. Now each of these (un)hallow spells has a different spell attached to it, such as haste, polymorph, magic circle against evil, death ward, etc. Now you count as being under the tree's canopy while you hold the acorn, and all these spells are in effect under the tree. If you want more than one at a time, just make sure you occupy more than one 5' space, and make sure good spell combos are all next to each other below the tree's canopy.





*Nonmagical "magic" items from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood; makes items non-dispellable and non-disjoinable, and they function in an AMF and dead magic zone, as well.

[Biggus]

It is time to get your cowl of warding(conceptually it is a very epic item and a very cool one at that), a full stack of pearls of thaumathurgy for all the spells of level 9 and lower,the fanciest fancy magical flight item that is, a bunch of scrolls of true resurrect just in case you do not have clerics accessible,3 ring of three wishes, a luckblade, a demolition hammer, that sword made for killing undead, an axe of negative energy, soulfire armour and so on.
None of them are particularly op but now you can have fun having basically all the non epic resources in gigantic amounts.

This is fine up to about level 28-30, by then you can afford pretty much everything nonepic that's really useful to your character.

[noob]

This is fine up to about level 28-30, by then you can afford pretty much everything nonepic that's really useful to your character.

It is still great you could lengthen your campaign for 8 more levels (you are likely to have the campaign end before).
And then once you are level 28 due to the exponential nature of wealth you can start affording the epic level big six, the ring of elemental immunity: that element you really hate and so on as epic items (or even that +15 modifier that simulates disintegrate on each hit on your sword because it is really cool).

[Caelestion]

You could also probably make the cost multiplier a factor of how powerful the epic item is rather than a flat x10, but that would take a lot more work and would become increasingly restrictive to higher tier items as the party actually approaches epic levels. For example, each point beyond the standard maximum bonus might add a +100% cost modifier. A +6 weapon would cost twice as much as the standard formula indicates, +7 three times as much, etc. You would have to get yourself a +15 weapon in order to match the standard 10x epic multiplier this way. This makes pricing a bit friendlier for the players, though the scaling cost multiplier adds reason to not have epic items popping up almost as frequently as CL 20 items in your world.

This sounds like an excellent way to doing it.

[Biggus]

You could also probably make the cost multiplier a factor of how powerful the epic item is rather than a flat x10, but that would take a lot more work and would become increasingly restrictive to higher tier items as the party actually approaches epic levels. For example, each point beyond the standard maximum bonus might add a +100% cost modifier. A +6 weapon would cost twice as much as the standard formula indicates, +7 three times as much, etc. You would have to get yourself a +15 weapon in order to match the standard 10x epic multiplier this way. This makes pricing a bit friendlier for the players, though the scaling cost multiplier adds reason to not have epic items popping up almost as frequently as CL 20 items in your world.

Agreed that this is an interesting idea. I tried something similar with making epic items scale on bonus cubed instead of bonus squared, but ended up giving up on it because it caused more problems than it solved.

This way might work better, with a few minor modifications (skill-boosting items should probably increase 20% per point rather than 100% for example).