Blackwing was a mistake?

[Precure]

While checking out Rich Burlew's recent Patreon answers, a certain question and answer made me wondered. This one:


Question: What drove you to make Blackwing a deeper and more relevant character as the comic went on?

Answer: ...after putting Vaarsuvius through all the trouble with the fiends and the black dragons, I knew I was going to have them keep that a secret from Roy and the others. But I also needed a character for them to talk to about it because most of the story takes place through dialogue. Blackwing provided someone who would already know everything that had happened and could serve as V’s confidant in those matters.

After thinking about this hard an long, I've reached into the conclusion that Blackwing's recent relevance as the sole confidant of Vaarsuvius was not only unnecessary, it was actually detrimental to V's character and their relationship with other characters. I'll try to explain my reasoning.

First of all, it was unnecessary. V already had a friend they could confide in matters such as this, namely Haley Starshine. I can understand V's reluctance to talk to Durkon and Elan considering the past events, I could also see why they keep it a secret from Roy considering his paladinisch tendencies, and Belkar was probably too unpredictable to trust. But as far as I can see, there was no reason for them to keep it a secret from Haley, basically the closest person to V in the team. Even if V might fear repercussions due to goodish Haley's disagreement with what V has done (which seems like an unfounded fear, considering how none of the current team members seems to care about V's "magnanimous" action), they should at least trust that Haley would keep it a secret. Haley was the only person V talk about their personal life before, how can they possibly think of not informing her about their recent problems at home? On top of that, Haley was a very important piece in this puzzle: It was V's determination to save Haley that led to their murder of the black dragon, it was V's obsession with finding Haley that pushed them into the edge, etc. It makes no sense for V to not talk to Haley about all that happened. Considering Haley's own self doubts about her goodness, they should be able to help each other by talking about their own experiences.

Second to that, it was also detrimental for Vaarsuvius's character development and their relationship with other characters, most of all Haley. V is basically isolated from other characters and frozen in time, their character arc is stopped its progression until the events in the pyramid. Blackwing might talk to V about the events, but he is no Haley and had very little personality. In fact most of their dialogues were nothing more than soliloquies by V with very little actual thought process and contribution from Blackwing himself. Any chances to bring out more sides of V's personality is lost by removing them from Haley and other characters. Their interaction with Elan too was gone, there was even people who argued that Elan hates V and want to not interact with them ever again, which is confirmed to be not the case after all. Their interaction with Durkon too was gone due to V's secret. V was emotionally exiled from the group.

Last but not least, it was detrimental to Haley herself. Roy was already away and with her only interaction with V is reduced into a brief slave liberation operation, Haley's only interaction was with her boyfriend. Even when she and Elan disagreed about Tarquin, she had nothing else to confide, V was there but they weren't any help. Haley too had her own secrets she only shared with Elan and not V, which again exacerbated their lack of interaction. Haley was figuratively trapped in cell with Elan and no one else to talk. It basically undermined her chances to express her personality and in long term hurt her character development by reducing her into a part of Elan/Tarquin story. Even her father's main contribution to the comic was ultimately being end up as a story element in Elan/Tarquin story.

[Ionathus]

I disagree with basically everything you've said. I think you're putting artificial restrictions on how stories are allowed to happen, and what "character development" looks like.

A major drawback to the "ensemble cast" style that OotS has become is that not every character will always share the spotlight. Durkon's backstory basically consumed the entire last book, but it was also about Roy admitting his failures, Belkar grappling with his developing conscience, and Haley getting a minor "goodbye" to Crystal and the Thieves' Guild phase of her life. She'd grown and didn't need to lie anymore. Rich's commentary in the Utterly Dwarfed book is really insightful here about her story.

But nobody would argue that Utterly Dwarfed really concerned Elan or Vaarsuvius all that much. And that's not a bad thing. Elan got a ton of plot attention in Blood Runs in the Family, and V did as well. What's more, both of them got loads of attention in Don't Split the Party, with Rich even saying in that book's commentary that DStP is basically written around V's arc.

As to your comments about Blackwing...consider that not everyone will agree with you. I, for one, love Blackwing as a character. His attitude, snarkiness, and general irreverence are quintessential animal sidekick comic relief, but they also get to help V process some really big stuff...you know, like an animal companion is supposed to do. You may dislike V's morality "monologues", but I enjoyed them immensely and thought they were well-written with two distinct voices.

Not liking Blackwing as a character is totally understandable, but I don't at all think that his presence has hurt V's relationship with Haley, anyone's character development, or the writing of the series as a whole.

[hroþila]

I think you start from the flawed premise that V would have been ready to tell Haley just because they're good friends. V was very deeply embarrassed of their actions while under the soul splice. They wouldn't have wanted to tell anyone at all, no matter how close they were. That's the kind of secret you carry to your grave if you can, and it had nothing to do with V being afraid of the repercussions. V could only tell anyone else once they had decided it was absolutely necessary for practical reasons.

So I strongly disagree it made no sense for V to keep that info from Haley. In my opinion, it would undermine V's shame if they had been ready to tell Haley what had happened straight away.

[Rogar Demonblud]

V being emotionally exiled from the group kind of was the point. Hel, V is by and large emotionally exiled from life. And Haley isn't exactly the person you talk to about issues due to her obsessive secretiveness.

[Schroeswald]

No that’s the short answer, long answer is what everyone else said but that’s less funny and about as useful, saying it because I do need to write more in white text to post and oh wait this is getting way too long ahhhh it’s the white space Ninja’s to kill me for writing something too long noooooo save meeeeeeeee

[Precure]

As to your comments about Blackwing...consider that not everyone will agree with you. I, for one, love Blackwing as a character. His attitude, snarkiness, and general irreverence are quintessential animal sidekick comic relief, but they also get to help V process some really big stuff...you know, like an animal companion is supposed to do. You may dislike V's morality "monologues", but I enjoyed them immensely and thought they were well-written with two distinct voices.

I'm very much aware that. In truth, I don't have much problem with Blackwing as a comic relief. It is the serious side of his character that was a problem.


Not liking Blackwing as a character is totally understandable, but I don't at all think that his presence has hurt V's relationship with Haley, anyone's character development, or the writing of the series as a whole.

As you implied in your post, in stories with an ensemble cast "screentime" is distributed amongst characters, giving everyone a chance to "shine" in a story. Like others, V's "time to shine" is limited. By giving V's limited dialogue time to Blackwing, it hurts V's chances to actually interact with other important characters and hurts their chance to shine.


I think you start from the flawed premise that V would have been ready to tell Haley just because they're good friends. V was very deeply embarrassed of their actions while under the soul splice. They wouldn't have wanted to tell anyone at all, no matter how close they were.

Yes, that was Rich Burlew's rationale to keep V apart from Haley, despite their shared history. But I disagree with it because, according to my beliefs, it actually hurted their characters in long time.

[GravityEmblem]

Blackwing acted as a sort of...Watson Archetype. Someone who Vaarsuvius could talk to during their internal struggle without actually being united with the party, as necessary for story purposes.

[Precure]

Blackwing acted as a sort of...Watson Archetype. Someone who Vaarsuvius could talk to during their internal struggle without actually being united with the party, as necessary for story purposes.

That's why I called their dialogues as soliloquies instead, and why I believe that using Haley would be a better choice to develop their characters better. Watson is fine as a mystery novel narrator, but his role as a character portrayal is seriously limited.

[JeenLeen]

I can sorta agree with you that Blackwing's existence in, in at least some/most of the ways you mention in your opening post, detrimental to the characters. I'm not sure if I'd really agree in the end, but I see your reasoning and it makes sense.*
However, I think there's a distinction between something being detrimental to the character (or even the character's personal growth) and detrimental to the story (including the arc of the character's growth). For the sake of argument, I could agree that Blackwing made some things worse in the end (or at least delayed certain character growth), but I think that set things up for a more interesting story. Or at least an interesting story (since we don't know how the story would've gone without Blackwing.)

*Main objection: I think V probably would be worse off as she wouldn't've talked about it with anyone, and thus wouldn't've developed in some regards, but I can see the idea that she would have felt forced to talk to Haley if Blackwing weren't an option. So arguing that doesn't seem worthwhile.

I also think Blackwing adds a good comedic element, as someone else already noted. Kinda like Belkar in the early comics, but less bloodthirsty.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yes, that was Rich Burlew's rationale to keep V apart from Haley, despite their shared history.

Honestly, what shared history? We have one scene in OOPCs of them drinking in a bar. That shows their relationship to be fairly casual, maybe more acquaintances than friends.

[Dion]

Honestly, what shared history?

They also share an appreciation of gemstones.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html

[Tvtyrant]

I disagree. V is very isolated after the Familicide, but that plot had already been done with Haley's muteness so it would have been repetitive. This way we got to see V's thoughts without mountains of thought bubbles, talking at friend's skulls, or having them written into the margins.

[hungrycrow]

I would say it's unfortunate that V hasn't spoken to the others about the splice after admitting it to Roy. But that isn't Blackwing's fault, V would never have brought it up without having some character development first.

[KorvinStarmast]

...V would never have brought it up without having some character development first. which Blackwing aided and abetted via their relationship.

I don't care that much for Blackwing as a character, but using Blackwing for this struck me as consistent with V's character: aloof and distant in general anyway, who can V talk to? Their own class feature. Makes sense in terms of a character being internally consistent.

If I am to judge this: objection noted, overruled. (Got a jury summons recently so I have to get my court jargon game face on)

[Rogar Demonblud]

I haven't had one of those ever. I testify often enough I suspect they put me on their Do Not Call list.

[Kazyan]

Interesting take! Based on those ideas, the corresponding 'What If?' scenario would be fun, e.g. what would have happened if the Explosive Runes had killed Blackwing in comic 660 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0660.html).

[The Pilgrim]

Interesting take! Based on those ideas, the corresponding 'What If?' scenario would be fun, e.g. what would have happened if the Explosive Runes had killed Blackwing in comic 660 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0660.html).

Why, V would have lost 200xp per Level. Unless V passed a DC 15 Fortitude check, in which case V would have lost only 100. Then V would be left with no familiar for a year and a day, unless V retrieves Blackwing's corpse for a Raise Dead.

[KorvinStarmast]

Why, V would have lost 200xp per Level. Unless V passed a DC 15 Fortitude check, in which case V would have lost only 100. Then V would be left with no familiar for a year and a day, unless V retrieves Blackwing's corpse for a Raise Dead. If Blackwing dies, Belkar never gets cheap sunglasses (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1125.html), which would have been a great loss.

Point of order: since they were not rhinestone shades, they had to be cheap sunglasses (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHkaIHRK35g).

[theNater]

In fact most of their dialogues were nothing more than soliloquies by V with very little actual thought process and contribution from Blackwing himself.
I have to point to comic #679 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html). The insight from Blackwing that Vaarsuvius takes people for granted is one that V badly needed. No one else in the Order is in a position to recognize it, much less deliver it in a way that Vaarsuvius would listen to.

[Rogar Demonblud]

More on the nose, who else is around who's known V more than a handful of months? Blackwing saying it makes it clear this isn't some recent development.

[Silly Name]

My first objection would be that V and Haley's relationship isn't that developed. Haley was simply a member of the party V interacted with a bit more often and they had a casual friendship. Discussing some superficial life details doesn't make for a strong friendship.

But Blackwing was perfect in this instance. One, he can take on the Jiminy Cricket role without being accused of hypocrisy (I mean, can you imagine Haley giving lesson on trust issues and feelings of guilt? She has gotten better herself, but she is far from being able to actually school someone on the subject), and two, he's a perfect sounding board: he is "simple", he has no secondary goals, no reason to ever put someone else before V, yet is smart enough to help his wizard in seeing things they have been blind to. And he's there whenever V needs him to be, even when they don't want him to be there.

Haley, supposing V came clear to her, would have given very different advice than Blackwing's, and V may have been less inclined to listen to her.

[brian 333]

I think the OP is mistaking opportunity for obligation.

The opportunity to create greater depth of detail in V's relationship with Haley, or any other character, does not create an obligation for the author to do so.

But let's step back and look at what he did accomplish by using Blackwing.

V remains the private, analytical character to the other characters, but we readers know he has serious emotional issues with which he is wrestling.

Doing it the way the author did it may have precluded other potential options, but it opened other opportunities. For example, imagine Elan or Belkar reacting to a completely selfless act by Vaarsuvius.

[Finagle]

It's not about the story. The bird is there for kids. It's to be marketable, and a nearly-powerless character that can be a self-insertion character for children. The bird and the housecat together are supposed to be the ones that get all the plush toys and such. Although making the cat a mute probably seemed like a better idea than it actually turned out to be. Mutes are a one-trick pony that get old after a while and are a pain in the butt to write.

[Morty]

It's not about the story. The bird is there for kids. It's to be marketable, and a nearly-powerless character that can be a self-insertion character for children. The bird and the housecat together are supposed to be the ones that get all the plush toys and such. Although making the cat a mute probably seemed like a better idea than it actually turned out to be. Mutes are a one-trick pony that get old after a while and are a pain in the butt to write.

You seem to have some very odd opinions about how this comic is produced. For reference, it's not a television show.

[Finagle]

{scrubbed}

[Dion]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

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[KorvinStarmast]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}
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[Ruck]

You seem to have some very odd opinions about how this comic is produced. For reference, it's not a television show.

I also think it's pretty insulting to Rich to work from an assumption that he is developing characters solely to be marketed as toys rather than to tell the story he wants to tell in the best way he can.

[Ser Kevan]

Honestly, I kinda agree that Blackwing takes a bit more focus than his character deserves. Maybe this has to do with the fact most of his jokes tends to fall flat for me, but he seems a bit superfluous at this point.
Maybe he should have been gifted the ability to speak his mind to Vaarsuvius, only to regain it in important situation ?

[Riftwolf]

If V confided in Haley, it would've been a choice to tell her. With Blackwing, there was no choice; they knew everything already.
With deeply personal embarrassments and shortcomings, there's a big difference between the two.
(for the record, Blackwings jokes tend to fall flat for me most times, especially when there was a whole page dedicated to him trying and failing to free Belkar from the vampire gaze (a page that could be edited out with no repercussions to the rest of the story). But then, I'm not really here for the jokes anymore, I'm here for the story.)

[woweedd]

You seem to have some very odd opinions about how this comic is produced. For reference, it's not a television show.

I, uh....I assumed that was a JOKE.

But, either way, as to the OP's question...Nah. Animal companions have a long, proud history of serving as consciences. Jimmy Cricket is obvious, but, in this very comic, Mr. Scruffy arguably counts: He doesn't advise Belkar, due to being mute and all, but he does still basically serve as the one living creature other then himself that Belkar cares about, and, in caring about him, Belkar has been slowly easing into caring about other people. While V does technically have a closer relationship with Haley then the rest of the Order, that's a relative term. While it would have been nice to have that idea expxanded on a bit more when it first came up, it doesn't really make sense with how the characters evolved.

[CriticalFailure]

Well I’m going to ignore that question and talk about something related.

I really hope that we see and learn more about V and Haley’s friendship at some point before the end. This relationship is implied to be significant and important quite a few times, but it’s never really be explored much.

V repeatedly expressed how much she valued Haley and is apparently very attached based on how out of her mind she is trying to track Haley down when they are separated. In contrast, I don’t recall Haley ever expressing more than what would be typical for a very casual friendship or even acquaintance to V. She obviously constantly demonstrates her affection for Elan, but she also seems to be closer to and more open with Roy compared to V. I don’t really remember Haley seeming to feel more strongly towards V than she does for Durkon. They don’t seem to have much time interacting and they don’t seem to act closer than the rest of the order.

This raises a lot of questions. Is it just that we haven’t seen them acting closer and friendlier, and if so why not and what is their interaction like when they are more open with each other? Why does V value Haley so highly? Is the relationship as asymmetrical as it seems and if so, why is V so openly attached and does Haley know quite how attached V is and how do they feel about it? Why hasn’t Haley noticed how withdrawn V has been? Or do they notice but not care? I really hope we learn more since their whole dynamic is very odd and doesn’t get as much time and other intra-order relationships, and there are just so many implied questions.

[KorvinStarmast]

I also think it's pretty insulting to Rich to work from an assumption that he is developing characters solely to be marketed as toys rather than to tell the story he wants to tell in the best way he can. That it is. (Though it might have either been a joke, or, a very well camoflaged zing aimed at another web comic, PvP - Kurtz was selling plushies for Skull the Troll, for example, years ago).

... Blackwings jokes tend to fall flat for me most times, especially when there was a whole page dedicated to him trying and failing to free Belkar from the vampire gaze (a page that could be edited out with no repercussions to the rest of the story)... On the other hand, the Terminator Belkar look was for me quite enjoyable. But I am with you - Blackwing's attempts at jokes usually fall flat for me. About the best line from Blackwing is when it's flying along with Bloodfeast and says something like "I love your work"

As to people comparing OoTS to a TV show: some of the jokes are set up and delivered as they would be in a sitcom. (Along the lines of "we work the humor from the 'this is awkward' frame of reference").

[Shirow]

From the practical standpoint, yeah.
Since OotS is a commercial project, and the author's livelihood is on stake on those, some form of merchandising is necessary. Come on.

Animal companions make great mascots. But besides and above that Blackwing is a perfectly justified, organic character. It's a wizards familiar in a D&D webcomic.

So it's not very smart. Sure, it's a bird.

Idk, it is funny to me, but I am not expecting a lot from a bird who is a class feature and not a main character to begin with.

Would an alternate timeline where V doesn't get a familiar a-la-Raistlin and Hailey and V are close enough for her(?) to confide the Familicide thing somehow be cool? idk, probably. But this series is not over yet so there might be still some reasons why Blackwing and Roy know, and the rest of the Order do not.

Since someone mentioned Sherlock and Watson, I'd say the dynamic is very much like the recent BBC Sherlock adaptation where Sherlock kinda mocks Watson's intellect a lot...

Also, strictly speaking Mr. Scruffy is only functionally mute. He can speak Cat like the Starmetal Cave Young Dragon could speak Lizard. If somebody uses "Speak with Animals" (or Tongues?) on it they should be able to communicate. Oh, the many things it could reveal to us, oh yes.
(Is this the real reason Belkar killed that gnome, Solt Lorkyurg? Did Mr. Scruffy talk to any of the gnomes in Tinkertown?)

[Lex]

As others said, I don't think Haley and Vaarsuvius are actually that close, so it makes sense that he didn't take the initiative to confide her the matter regarding the Familicide. I also don't think it would have worked too well, because then Haley would have to keep that a secret from her boyfriend and her party leader, in direct opposition to her character development that leads to her learning to be more honest and open with others. In the end, relying on Blackwing was probably the smartest and safest choice for Rich.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well I’m going to ignore that question and talk about something related.

I really hope that we see and learn more about V and Haley’s friendship at some point before the end. This relationship is implied to be significant and important quite a few times, but it’s never really be explored much.

V repeatedly expressed how much she valued Haley and is apparently very attached based on how out of her mind she is trying to track Haley down when they are separated. In contrast, I don’t recall Haley ever expressing more than what would be typical for a very casual friendship or even acquaintance to V. She obviously constantly demonstrates her affection for Elan, but she also seems to be closer to and more open with Roy compared to V. I don’t really remember Haley seeming to feel more strongly towards V than she does for Durkon. They don’t seem to have much time interacting and they don’t seem to act closer than the rest of the order.

This raises a lot of questions. Is it just that we haven’t seen them acting closer and friendlier, and if so why not and what is their interaction like when they are more open with each other? Why does V value Haley so highly? Is the relationship as asymmetrical as it seems and if so, why is V so openly attached and does Haley know quite how attached V is and how do they feel about it? Why hasn’t Haley noticed how withdrawn V has been? Or do they notice but not care? I really hope we learn more since their whole dynamic is very odd and doesn’t get as much time and other intra-order relationships, and there are just so many implied questions.

The simplest explanation is that Haley is the only friend V has had, so she's more important to V than V is to her.

[Ruck]

I, uh....I assumed that was a JOKE.


That it is. (Though it might have either been a joke, or, a very well camoflaged zing aimed at another web comic, PvP - Kurtz was selling plushies for Skull the Troll, for example, years ago).

Considering the follow-up was scrubbed, I really doubt it was a joke.


The simplest explanation is that Haley is the only friend V has had, so she's more important to V than V is to her.

Yeah, this makes sense. We don't really know much about V and Haley's friendship or its history other than that they were friends enough to commiserate after V blew up the Iron Mage stadium.

[Emanick]

The simplest explanation is that Haley is the only friend V has had, so she's more important to V than V is to her.

To be fair, Haley isn't exactly swimming in friends either. Which is a little weird, given her Charisma, but I guess her background does a pretty good job of explaining that fact.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, that may be less 'friends' than 'socialization'. Haley has had a lot, with a bevy of, if not friends, then acquaintances. V was locked up in a tower until Master A chucked them out.

[quinron]

I also don't think it would have worked too well, because then Haley would have to keep that a secret from her boyfriend and her party leader, in direct opposition to her character development that leads to her learning to be more honest and open with others. In the end, relying on Blackwing was probably the smartest and safest choice for Rich.

Big second. The soul splice falls midway between Haley's confession to Elan, her first big step toward sorting out her trust issues, and her coming clean about her dad's imprisonment, i.e., the biggest secret she was keeping. If Haley had kept the soul splice secret but came clean about her dad, it would have seriously undermined the culmination of a major development process.

[Metastachydium]

So it's not very smart. Sure, it's a bird.


[Goes into angry little flower mode.] Birdies are not dumb.

[Ionathus]

Well, that may be less 'friends' than 'socialization'. Haley has had a lot, with a bevy of, if not friends, then acquaintances. V was locked up in a tower until Master A chucked them out.

Maybe "work friends" is the best way to categorize them? It's very true that Haley & V talked about simple stuff a lot early on, and V was fixated on finding Haley specifically throughout Don't Split the Party (though, in fairness, V's other choice was contacting Belkar, an obvious non-starter for them). But having V discuss the Soul Splice and Familicide with Blackwing instead helped to isolate V from the rest of the team, which I'm pretty sure was the desired effect. I also agree that starting Haley on a "don't keep secrets" character arc and then dumping a cosmic-horror secret on her would be a messy storytelling play.


[Goes into angry little flower mode.] Birdies are not dumb.

I mean, crows and ravens alone are like, scary smart. Makes sense for an intellect focused wizard!

And also Ravenclaw. How am I just putting those pieces together right now?

[Metastachydium]

I mean, crows and ravens alone are like, scary smart. Makes sense for an intellect focused wizard!

Yup. You can add magpies and jays to that, and it isn't even a strictly corvid thing. Egyptian vultures and some songbirds, such as nuthatches also have tricks of their own.


And also Ravenclaw. How am I just putting those pieces together right now?

…
That fits quite well indeed, now that you mention it.

[Shirow]

[Goes into angry little flower mode.] Birdies are not dumb.

Ha hah, sorry. No offense intended. Apparently they are very wise.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/raven.htm
Str 1, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6

And then...
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars

Master Class Level Natural Armor Adj. Int
15th-16th* +8 13
*Since V can cast Mind Blank.

Int 13 and Wis 14, that actually sounds pretty smart.
I guess Blackwing's "annoyingness" comes from the Cha 6, or perhaps the Abrasive or Honest traits (pure speculation).

[Shirow]

The simplest explanation is that Haley is the only friend V has had, so she's more important to V than V is to her.
♪ You're my best friend, and I know I'm not yours and that's OK. ♪ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2DFezUThXk&lc=UgjsCSmDxWS7_HgCoAEC&ab_channel=racheldoesstuff)

[Schroeswald]

♪ You're my best friend, and I know I'm not yours and that's OK. ♪ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2DFezUThXk&lc=UgjsCSmDxWS7_HgCoAEC&ab_channel=racheldoesstuff)

Is that... it is! The very first reference to Crazy Ex Girlfriend I have found in the wild. I believe that means that OOTS and CXG have the best fans if I’ve finally found one.

[TRH]

I also think it's pretty insulting to Rich to work from an assumption that he is developing characters solely to be marketed as toys rather than to tell the story he wants to tell in the best way he can.

He did include the one joke that this is the reason Haley changes outfits every book, but that's not a whole new character.

[HalfTangible]

One other point to note is that Blackwing was able to be with V for moments Haley wasn't. V's realization of just how many people they slaughtered with Familicide and the sudden panicked run, as an example. Also Haley probably wouldn't have known that much about V's personal life. If she did she wouldn't know it to the extent Blackwing does.

Blackwing's role has been small, but it hasn't been superfluous or detrimental. I'm admittedly in agreement that Haley and V's friendship has been left a bit by the wayside, but that's a separate issue from Blackwing.

[Riftwolf]

As someone who disparaged Blackwing earlier I should point out that his most recent punchline worked for me, as did his narrative requirements.

[bravelove]

This take was so bad I actually got an error message the first time I tried to view it

[WanderingMist]

[Goes into angry little flower mode.] Birdies are not dumb.

You wanna test that with owls?

[137beth]

Blackwing's snark in the final panel of today's page is so awesome that it conclusively debunks the myth that Blackwing was a mistake. Even if you ignore what everyone else already said in this thread.:cool:

[Silidon]

Value added by Blackwing aside, and I believe he's added quite a bit, it really wouldn't make sense to do it the way you're suggesting for either V or Haley.

The whole point for V is that they're so racked by guilt they can't tell anyone what happened, even people they trust. Heck, they can't even really face it themself until forced to by the mummies. If V could have told Haley, it would undermine the enormity of their burden.

As for Haley, her whole arc throughout the series has been learning how unhealthy it is to constantly keep secrets, and she reinforces that growth in Blood Runs in the Family. For her to turn around and keep V's secret from everyone, when it is both obviously harming V to continue bottling these things up and immediately important to the mission that everyone is on the same page runs directly against that development.

[Ruck]

Is that... it is! The very first reference to Crazy Ex Girlfriend I have found in the wild. I believe that means that OOTS and CXG have the best fans if I’ve finally found one.

It's a good show.

[Shirow]

Is that... it is! The very first reference to Crazy Ex Girlfriend I have found in the wild. I believe that means that OOTS and CXG have the best fans if I’ve finally found one.
:smallwink:

I found Blackwing funny in #1223 as well. I find the lawyers funny too, so. Make of that what you will.

[Corneel]

You wanna test that with owls?
That's because the eyes take up space that could have been used for brains.

[Metastachydium]

You wanna test that with owls?

I like owls.
Also, I'm pretty sure owls are smarter than quite a number of mammals, and yet I don't hear people saying stuff like ”yeah, it's pretty dumb, but what do you expect from a mammal-brained mammal?”

[DavidBV]

Blackwing in the right doses can add lots of fun to a strip. Speaking as one that thinks the first 400 strips or so are the most fun of OoTS, it is obvious you need new dynamics and characters after a while. The comic can't stay 2000-page long doing punchlines about D&D rules and it was inevitable that it became more "talky" and "story-centered". However the most important thing to consider here is the author's motivation. After years of doing the same thing you need new challenges and goals, be it in terms of art or in narrative. IF this makes the author happier and inspires him more, then it must be so.

[Fish]

One other point to note is that Blackwing was able to be with V for moments Haley wasn't.
I was wondering when someone would bring this up. When V needed someone to talk to, the party was split. Haley was with Celia and Belkar, sans magic, and V could not contact her due to the cloister spell.

Now, Rich didn't have to write the story in that way, splitting the party like that. He could have written it so Haley and V were together, at least for the purpose of giving V someone to talk to. I'm not sure what Haley would do in such a hypothetical alternate plotline, given that her whole arc after the fall of Azure City was about becoming a leader in a time of crisis. It's possible that by forcing Haley and V together to build depth between them would come by robbing Haley of an opportunity to grow as a person. It might also break V's motivation for wanting to discover how to break through that cloister — if Haley were with V, and it was just Belkar and Dead Roy, would V be as desperate to get them back? V doesn't like Belkar, and at least Dead Roy isn't in danger.

Later, when the party was back together again, following Darth V's failure to make a dent in Xykon's epicness, V was ashamed and alone. V wouldn't even tell the truth to anyone about what had happened — V lied to Durkon about some high-XP-cost magic power. They didn't want to admit what they had done, at least not to anyone who mattered. The fact that V felt Blackwing was beneath them is a pretty sound reason for V to feel safe having that conversation.

[HalfTangible]

The fact that V felt Blackwing was beneath them is a pretty sound reason for V to feel safe having that conversation.

Well, that

And the fact that Blackwing already knew, because he was V's familiar and was definitely there the whole time. :smallwink: