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View Full Version : Attacks of Opportunity ftw.



SadisticFishing
2007-11-06, 10:35 PM
Hey guys. I recently reread Half-Ogre, and I think I'm in love.

I need to build one of these, soemthing about the picture, and being Large, really gets to me.

Clearly, he best way to abuse Half-Ogre is by using AoO's. I just need people's opinions on my build fragments.

The feats so far (using a Glaive and armor spikes, by the by)
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Deft Opportunist (Mini)
Stand Still (XPH)
Sidestep (Mini)
Expert Tactician (CAdv)
Mage Slayer (Mini)
Martial Study (Devoted Spirit - Vanguard Strike) (ToB)
Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades) (ToB)
Human Heritage (RoD); so that I can be Enlarge Person'ed - not necessary in the Psychic Warrior builds.
Cleave (if Tactical Soldier)
Robillar's Gambit
Karmic Strike

The possible class builds:

Psychic Warrior (XPH) 18: Easily the most abuseable. Expansion makes me into a Gargantuan PC. With a reach weapon, that gives me a ridiculous reach in which no one can cast non-quickened spells (well, it's unlikely, to say the least), and though I lose 4 dex I can use Prowess to make up for the loss of AoP's.

Psychic Warrior 8/Tactical Soldier 10 (Mini): Similar to above, but losing out on a lot of the power, giving my whole team (including myself) AoO's every round is nothing to scoff at, and neither are the other few things I get to help out my team.

Psychic Warrior, though, seems a tad abusive. PC's aren't supposed to be Gargantuan, but I guess PC's aren't supposed to be Batman, either. Non Psychic-Warrior builds:

Well, I don't have any. But possible classes:

Outcast Champion (RoD): Gives me a couple of very useful abilities, including a bonus to str/dex/con if I'm at low health, which I can share with my party. One problem would be the lack of charisma.

Holy Liberator (CDiv): Goes very well with Outcast Champion, both in flavor and in abilities. The feat progression would be slow though, the build would probably be

Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Outcast Champion 5/Holy Liberator 8, giving me a few Holy Swords and Rhino's Rush every day, as well as a few other cool spells, and charisma to saves.

Other possibilities:

Crusader 5/Tactical Soldier 10/Crusader +3 (8), giving a few supportive strikes, and saving me the feats for Thicket of Blades.

Fighter 8/Tactical Soldier 10 - simple, but awesome. Tons of feats.

Abusive: Cleric 9/War Hulk 9: Use Divine Power and Righteous Might, smash things. Unbelievably powerful, but rather silly.

Alright, are there any classes I'm overlooking? Feats? Prestige Classes? Rules I'm misunderstanding?

Thanks.

horseboy
2007-11-07, 12:53 AM
Did you get it from this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html) one?

Rogue 7
2007-11-07, 12:54 AM
If you really want to spam AoO's, check out Lord Tatarus's Ocean Warrior Martial Artist class over in homebrew. It's designed to max out AoO's.

SadisticFishing
2007-11-07, 01:12 AM
Edit: oops forgot Karmic Strike and Robillar's Gambit.

Nah, no homebrew, there's enough to D&D that I (for some odd reason o_O) feel that I should be able to find what I want without having to make it myself.

Heh, yeah, that's the comic - but this idea isn't actually taken from there, I'm currently DM'ing a game and I had an awesome (but ridiculously hard) fight in a small room with two enlarged Tactical Soldiers. No one could do anything except the melee character, and even he was in trouble - it was awesome. Then I read Human Heritage and I decided I wanted to play one eventually.

tyckspoon
2007-11-07, 01:39 AM
You'll want some way to make effective attacks on people who are inside the reach of your glaive, especially if you're going with the Karmic Strike/Gambit 'retributive counter' approach. There's a couple of feats that can do it; Shorten Grip (originally Dragon #331) will let you do it with your glaive, at cost of a to-hit penalty. Improved Unarmed Strike works, although your DM might say you can't do that because your hands are busy holding your weapon. I think armor spikes is the other traditional recommendation, although it's a fairly silly idea (you'll be spike-slamming people from ten feet away!) Of course, If you go with one of the Psychic Warrior builds you can just use one of your other powers known to give yourself a bite attack instead.

Edit: Yeah, teach me to read the OP. I just saw the armor spikes thing. Using Bite of The Wolf or Claws of the Beast as a PsyWar might still be more effective, at least until you can get the spikes enchanted. Especially since armor spikes are a light weapon; Bite of the Wolf would let you apply your full (huge) strength bonus.

Edit again!: According to Crystalkeep, a half-ogre's type is Giant as well as the base creature's type. Assuming you're planning on a half-ogre half-human/elf/dwarf/other standard humanoid, you don't need any extra feat to be eligible for Enlarge Person. It's a Dragon-origin template, so I doubt it's been errata'd.

Amiria
2007-11-07, 02:23 AM
Edit again!: According to Crystalkeep, a half-ogre's type is Giant as well as the base creature's type. Assuming you're planning on a half-ogre half-human/elf/dwarf/other standard humanoid, you don't need any extra feat to be eligible for Enlarge Person. It's a Dragon-origin template, so I doubt it's been errata'd.

Don't believe everything at Crystalkeep. The "official" version of the half-ogre (from Races of Destiny) isn't a template. It is more like a half elf, only with ogre instead of elf. And it has the giant type.

Since the OP mentioned Races of Destiny I bet he uses that version.

Temp
2007-11-07, 02:33 AM
Expansion's better than Enlarge Person anyway...

tyckspoon
2007-11-07, 02:43 AM
Ah. Yeah, the RoD version is in there under 'Races', while the Dragon version is in Templates. The template version would probably work better for the build in question, but the racial version looks a lot less cheesy.

I think overall Psychic Warrior would be the most mechanically effective choice. Powers are nice, and you'll be getting bonus feats to help you actually take that long list at a reasonable pace. On the other hand, a +2 Level Adjustment is going to hurt unless you're starting at a fairly high level; Psychic Warriors don't exactly enjoy a surplus of power points and you'll need a decent manifester level in order to be able to use Expansion to its fullest.

Shishnarfne
2007-11-07, 09:23 AM
Some AoO builds splash in Combat Expertise+Improved Trip (or use a weapon that can trip foes) so that your many, many AoOs will send people to the ground (then you get another AoO when they try to stand up!). Though I'm sure everyone posting here already knew that little trick.

Lord Tataraus
2007-11-07, 09:28 AM
I would suggest trying to get Improved Combat Reflexes and Greater Combat Reflexes. Of course, I have to endorse my homebrew Martial Artist (Ocean Sentinel) class, but I respect your decision to not use homebrew. Also, I think psychic warrior is the way to go, it frees up a feat at least.

WorthingSon
2007-11-07, 09:32 AM
If your DM allows Dragon Mag. feats.... look into these:

Improved Combat Reflexes [General, Fighter] (DR340 p87) - make 2 AoO at a time

Greater Combat Reflexes [General, Fighter] (DR340 p87) - make 3 AoO at a time

Opportunistic Tactician [General, Fighter] (DR340 p87) - make a 5' step after a AoO

Backstab [General, Fighter] (DR340 p86) - get an AoO on any flanked foe that attacks any other ally

Person_Man
2007-11-07, 09:45 AM
You've covered most of the bases quite well, so it really doesn't seem like you need any crunch advice.

I'd just warn you that there are plenty of ways to defeat an AoO build. By definition, most DMs want to challenge their PCs. So its inevitable that your DM will throw enemies at you that ignore AoO, have a huge reach, use ranged weapons, use spells, etc. So I would suggest that you not put all of your eggs into one basket. After you put 3-6 feats and some class levels into a combo, move on to something else, lest you be totally screwed when your DM decides to challenge you.

SadisticFishing
2007-11-07, 01:35 PM
Haha, thanks all, but no Dragon Magazine, I made the decision as our first real DM - too hard to check sources.

The thing about the AoO build, is that as a Gargantuan PC with 25ft reach (did I do that math right? I haven't found a reach weapon reach chart for all sizes), there's very little that can challenge me up close, and as the tank, that's all I'm going for. I even have Dimension Door for people who aren't TOO far away - and the range is Long, so that seems pretty good to me.

But I just found the War Mind, and it seems rather plausible to go War Mind 10 instead of Psychic Warrior at all - except the first two levels of Psychic Warrior are pretty decent, and I need Knowledge (Psionics) to get in... Damn multiclassing penalties, or I'd just do something like Crusader 3/Psychic Warrior 2/War Mind 10/x 3.

Any good advice on using War Mind?

Draz74
2007-11-07, 01:43 PM
But I just found the War Mind, and it seems rather plausible to go War Mind 10 instead of Psychic Warrior at all - except the first two levels of Psychic Warrior are pretty decent, and I need Knowledge (Psionics) to get in... Damn multiclassing penalties, or I'd just do something like Crusader 3/Psychic Warrior 2/War Mind 10/x 3.

Any good advice on using War Mind?

Probably take advantage of the Favored Class. I assume the Half-Ogre's favored class is Barbarian? So ... I guess you're kinda stuck with Barbarian 2 / Psychic Warrior 3 / War Mind 10 / Psychic Warrior 3 or something. Not too shabby.

SadisticFishing
2007-11-07, 02:25 PM
Ha, or for an even weirder build that actually kind of represents the character I'm trying to play:

Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Psychic Warrior 1/Ftr+1(2)/PW+1(2)/War Mind 10/Barbarian +3(4)

Temp
2007-11-07, 02:50 PM
I like Warmind... One of my recent characters was something like a Wild Shape Barbarian* 5/Psychic Warrior 1/Master of Many Forms 2/Warmind 5 with Knockdown.



He pretty much was the Hulk...There was no end to the bashing fun.



*Rage=>Combat Style+Favored Enemy
Combat Style=>Wild Shape


[edit:]Retrospectively, I should have gotten some Drunken Master in there. Improvised Weapons would have perfected the likeness.


[double edit:]
...And to actually relate this post to the discussion, would Drunken Master be an intelligent move for cheesy Improvised Weapon Reach?

That's always a good thing when it's allowed.