Path of the beast and moon druid

[samuraijaques]

So the new path of the beast barbarian has a feature that gives you one of three bestial adaptations that can be used to modify your rage. My question is, if I play the classic bearbarian and go moon druid to turn into a beast then use the rage ability to gain one of the adaptations in what way do the features stack? what if I rage first then use wild shape? Additionally, If the wildshape form has a claw already and I choose the claws form from path of the beast and then use my action to make a claw attack with the wildshape form do I get the second claw from path of the beast?

My thinking is if I choose to rage first, whatever physical adaptation I pick is going to be overwritten by the new form but the ability that that adaptation gave me is going to stick around. Basically, if I pick claws, for example, and then chose to wildshape into a bear my natural weapons would be replaced by the bear's natural weapons in the same way that a minotaur would lose it's gore from it's horns. However the rage carries on and it now has the text "Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action." would that allow me to make 2 attacks with my claws? would it allow me to use multiattack and get 2 claws and a bite?

It seems like there could be a lot of synergy here but it also seems convoluted to figure out. Any help with this would be appreciated.

[Segev]

You retain the ability to use features of your classes when you wild shape. The beast features from raging are class features that the wild shape form should have no trouble using, so you have them and can use them.

[Jerrykhor]

Now add Alter Self and ask your DM how do they all stack.

[Valmark]

So the new path of the beast barbarian has a feature that gives you one of three bestial adaptations that can be used to modify your rage. My question is, if I play the classic bearbarian and go moon druid to turn into a beast then use the rage ability to gain one of the adaptations in what way do the features stack? what if I rage first then use wild shape? Additionally, If the wildshape form has a claw already and I choose the claws form from path of the beast and then use my action to make a claw attack with the wildshape form do I get the second claw from path of the beast?

My thinking is if I choose to rage first, whatever physical adaptation I pick is going to be overwritten by the new form but the ability that that adaptation gave me is going to stick around. Basically, if I pick claws, for example, and then chose to wildshape into a bear my natural weapons would be replaced by the bear's natural weapons in the same way that a minotaur would lose it's gore from it's horns. However the rage carries on and it now has the text "Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action." would that allow me to make 2 attacks with my claws? would it allow me to use multiattack and get 2 claws and a bite?

It seems like there could be a lot of synergy here but it also seems convoluted to figure out. Any help with this would be appreciated.

Well, if you play the bearbarian you don't get the claws being two different subclasses so no stacking there.

Now, if you play the beast barbarian... You are capable of using the claws but they are dependant on your Attack action.
Assuming you have no Extra Attack you are either attacking with your wildshape's natural weapon or with the rage claws. You can't dual wield them nor can you use rage claws with Multiattack (which is a different action from Attack).

If you had Extra Attack you could attack once with the rage claws and once with the wildshape's weapon, just like you could attack twice with the rage claws or twice with the wildshape's weapon(s).

If you have claws from the wildshape and claws from the rage you have to use the rage claws to trigger their effect.

[samuraijaques]

Well, if you play the bearbarian you don't get the claws being two different subclasses so no stacking there.
Not sure I understand what you're saying here. If I have 2 levels in druid I can wildshape and if I have 3 levels in barbarian I can use the path of the beast rage features.


Now, if you play the beast barbarian... You are capable of using the claws but they are dependant on your Attack action.
Assuming you have no Extra Attack you are either attacking with your wildshape's natural weapon or with the rage claws. You can't dual wield them nor can you use rage claws with Multiattack (which is a different action from Attack).
If you had Extra Attack you could attack once with the rage claws and once with the wildshape's weapon, just like you could attack twice with the rage claws or twice with the wildshape's weapon(s).
That all makes sense.


If you have claws from the wildshape and claws from the rage you have to use the rage claws to trigger their effect.
I disagree. The path of the beast ability reads "Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action." emphasis mine. Which seems to indicate to me that any claw would fit the bill.

Thoughts?

[Valmark]

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. If I have 2 levels in druid I can wildshape and if I have 3 levels in barbarian I can use the path of the beast rage features.

I disagree. The path of the beast ability reads "Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action." emphasis mine. Which seems to indicate to me that any claw would fit the bill.

Thoughts?

You wrote "the classic bearbarian" which would be a barbarian path of the totem with the bear totem, which is something else.

Right, yes, it doesn't explicitely enforce you to use those specific claws if you have other claws. Personally I wouldn't let it work if only because it doesn't make much sense to me, but it's neither unbalancing nor illegal- if I'm not wrong anything the moon druid would be turning into would deal at most 2d4 damage from the claws.

[samuraijaques]

You wrote "the classic bearbarian" which would be a barbarian path of the totem with the bear totem, which is something else.

Right, yes, it doesn't explicitely enforce you to use those specific claws if you have other claws. Personally I wouldn't let it work if only because it doesn't make much sense to me, but it's neither unbalancing nor illegal- if I'm not wrong anything the moon druid would be turning into would deal at most 2d4 damage from the claws.

Oh? I've always heard the term bearbarian used for the common multiclass of moon druid and barbarian. Sorry for the confusion.

Speaking of bears, brown bears get 2d6 on their claws which with the path of the beast feature allows them to attack twice with them when you take the attack action. This means that even as a multiclassed druid 2/barbarian 3 you don't actually lose out on the extra attack feature at 5th level like you usually would. Additionally, when you do get the feature at character level 7, assuming you only ever take 2 levels of druid, you get a 3rd attack. Brown bear claws deal greatsword damage and you get 3 attacks with them at level 7, a full 4 levels before the fighter gets to. Seems legit.

[Valmark]

Oh? I've always heard the term bearbarian used for the common multiclass of moon druid and barbarian. Sorry for the confusion.

Speaking of bears, brown bears get 2d6 on their claws which with the path of the beast feature allows them to attack twice with them when you take the attack action. This means that even as a multiclassed druid 2/barbarian 3 you don't actually lose out on the extra attack feature at 5th level like you usually would. Additionally, when you do get the feature at character level 7, assuming you only ever take 2 levels of druid, you get a 3rd attack. Brown bear claws deal greatsword damage and you get 3 attacks with them at level 7, a full 4 levels before the fighter gets to. Seems legit.
Now I'm doubting wether bearbarian means barbarian/druid or barbarian (bear totem).

Somehow I found the Giant Sloth and I didn't check the Brown Bear, I've failed my Google check big time xD

Yes, it's legit and actually good! I wouldn't call it unbalancing still- it's basically 7 more damage then the straight barbarian would do at the same level (I'm assuming one with a greatsword) and if that breaks an encounter it was probably easy in the first place.

Only problem is that it's DM-dependant like said earlier.

[elyktsorb]

I disagree. The path of the beast ability reads "Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action." emphasis mine. Which seems to indicate to me that any claw would fit the bill.

Thoughts?

There are a few word ruling that might be relevant since it's heavily required for this to work. Firstly, in that a Brown Bear doesn't make an attack with 'a claw' it makes it's attack with 'claws' IE the bear could be using both claws in the attack, not just a single one.

Surely this is semantics, but the Lion, has a 'claw' attack, not a 'claws' attack.

In the case of the beast barbarian, they attack with one claw, and then can follow with another claw. (if we're being strict to the words)

The next item is that you could never go into rage and get claws while in animal form, as the claws state your 'hands' turn into claws, bears and most other animals don't have hands to turn into claws, so that could also be a snag, though nothing would prevent you from doing rage to give yourself claws, and then turn into an animal. As the other options, tail, and bite, don't require you having specifically humanoid parts to transform into them.

I will also point out that turning into an animal will remove your ability to make any normal attacks anyway, so if you give yourself claws in rage, turn into a Wolf, the wolf does not have a claw attack, and can't gain one while being a wolf. Tail would oddly enough give you a second tail, and bite would redundantly turn your beastial mouth, into a beastial mouth.

As for my actual thoughts on the subject, they likely aren't meant to work together, in the same way you can't roll a monk druid, and have martial arts work with the beasts attacks. As we already know Ki empowered strikes don't work if your using animal appendages, but if you make unarmed strikes specifically, than it does.

Likewise, with the beast barbarians own version of it's attacks overcoming magical resistance wouldn't apply to being in animal form. Since I think you can fairly argue that having a claw attack still counts as it being a claw for the purposes of the mechanic, (specifically a 'claw' attack, not a 'claws' attack) of getting an additional claw attack, but if you turned on your barbarian claws, and then turned into a bear, they are no longer the barbarian claws and would rely on the druid's feature for surpassing magical resistance/immunity.

[Unoriginal]

So the new path of the beast barbarian has a feature that gives you one of three bestial adaptations that can be used to modify your rage. My question is, if I play the classic bearbarian and go moon druid to turn into a beast then use the rage ability to gain one of the adaptations in what way do the features stack? what if I rage first then use wild shape? Additionally, If the wildshape form has a claw already and I choose the claws form from path of the beast and then use my action to make a claw attack with the wildshape form do I get the second claw from path of the beast?

My thinking is if I choose to rage first, whatever physical adaptation I pick is going to be overwritten by the new form but the ability that that adaptation gave me is going to stick around. Basically, if I pick claws, for example, and then chose to wildshape into a bear my natural weapons would be replaced by the bear's natural weapons in the same way that a minotaur would lose it's gore from it's horns. However the rage carries on and it now has the text "Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action." would that allow me to make 2 attacks with my claws? would it allow me to use multiattack and get 2 claws and a bite?

It seems like there could be a lot of synergy here but it also seems convoluted to figure out. Any help with this would be appreciated.

The Multiattack action isn't the same as the Attack action. You can use your Rage-grown claws even while wildshaped as a bear if you use your regular Attack (using the Bear's size and STR mod), but you can't if you Multiattack.

[Segev]

Yeah, the Beast Barbarian's claws generate their own right to take the attack action. (You still have to use the Attack action to use the basic Beast claw attack, but by having the feature, you have the ability to do so if you choose. So being in wolf form with a Beast Barbarian's claws feature active doesn't deny you the ability to take the attack action, and use the Beast Barbarian-granted claw(s) for the attack(s).)